a gung-ho ex Golani (the most hardcore brigade other than the Sayeret Matkal, as i understand). he works my gf's dad. i'm looking forward to meeting him to hear his stories first hand, but my gf's dad told me a few of them. i learned a few things that i've never heard of before. he has been in Canada for about 10 years. that means he was serving pre-1997. he was fighting "Palestinian" terrorists in the narrow casbahs in the Territories, and Hizballah in South Lebanon before the 2000 withdrawal. by his own count he has killed 6, and has been shot 3 times. he used to volunteer for extra service, and would choose the toughest missions. it goes with out saying i have much respect for him. but why did he leave Israel if he was such a gung ho supporter? because of the stifling red tape and helpless government. he now urges his family to leave Israel because of the situation there. one of the stories he told my gf's dad was about the incident that broke the camel's back and made him choose to leave Israel for good: one day he was on patrol with his team in East Jerusalem. an Arab tried to do something that is very common (i've heard about the same from other ex-IDFers). he was standing on top of a high wall and tried to drop a huge and heavy boulder on top of the patrol. the soldier's friend saw what the guy was about to do, so he shot and killed him on the spot, saving the lives of his friends by the act. upon returning to base he was arrested and faced a military trial for shooting with out his captain's authorization. had he waited for the captain's authorization, the captain would've been dead. anyway, the military police were done with him and he narrowly escaped jail. then the regular (non military) police went after him for the same incident. he also narrowly escaped jail. he was demoted and reprimantded. a very typical incident. the guy saw many similar incidents, and this one made him leave. he thinks that the government should either make peace with full force (like Rabin and Barak intended), or if that is impossible, destroy the enemy and force peace onto them. half-measures won't do because they only prolong the conflict. he refused to fight for a government that could not make peace (for one reason or another) and at the same time tied its soldiers' hands. i suppose i understand him. whatever you do, do it whole heartedly. no half measures. being neither here nor there is not productive, and prolongs the conflict. nothing is being solved and soldiers keep dying to prolong the status quo. fuck the red tape.
Heya Buffalo, hows it going? I think most humans have trouble with learning dont you??? ~~~~~~~~~ cheers zak
My commando friends also left Israel, because it sucks to be at war all the time, they just want to have a normal life. Soldiers there should know that what seems simple could easily become an incident with international consequences, they are trusted to follow orders like any soldier, and if they violate that, they are subject to military discipline.
I would believe that the soldiers in the patrol would tend to disagree with you. I think having been a soldier, that I would rather save my friends than let them die to avoid a incident with international consequences, if you let any of the people in your platoon die just to avoided a international incident, I do believe that the next time you went out it would become very lonely for you, and what business does something like this have being used to make international incident.
So people who are walled in with restricted access to food and medical care should be shot dead when they climb over the wall to throw stones at the troops that limit their movements? Amazing perspective here
What, it's impossible for them to deal with a man with a rock in any other way besides shooting him? Face it, this was just an expression of murderous rage (on both sides).
It is a amazing perspective to expect some one to stand by while others are murdered. Now just why are they walled in? could it be that they kill without remorse innocent children? women? that they refuse to make peace? that every peace that they have promised has ended with Israeli children blown to smithereens in a pizza shops, school bus's, out for a walk with their friends, could it be because from the moment the State of Israel was announced the Arabs have tried to wipe it out, and along with it the Jewish population of Israel. Palestinians would rather live in a world of shit than make PEACE and improve their Lives, Peace bring a better life, to make continual war destroys all, and the Palestinians have been at war since 1948, and exactly were has it got them? a life style that is at a cesspool level. The only thing that hasn't been tried by the Palestinians is a true Peace with Israel, no more killing of any Israelis, Soldiers, Children, Men, Women, no more Palestinians killing them selves in suicide bombings, and see were it leads? I truly believe that if the Palestinians stop killing to try and achieve their purposes, they like Gandhi will become free, and establish a free and independent prosperous Nation, but that don't serve the purpose's of the rest of the Arabs, does it?
Who's Law? and Who's Interpretation of said Law? yours? under your law its, HANG EM' HIGH! ISLAM IS THE PERFECT LAW! NEVER FORGET AND NEVER FORGIVE, LIVE IN A CESSPOOL BUT NEVER MAKE PEACE UNLESS IT IS THE PEACE OF ISLAM. SAM's law, your law would end in the death of the Jewish Race in the Middle East, SAM law is the Blood Feud, never stop, all blood offenses must be paid in blood, that is the Law that you support, it is in every post you make, with every example that you use as a moral relativistic argument that comes from the Crusades, from history that is a Thousand years old or Fifty years old, the only way to solve the middle east problems, by your solution, is to never make peace, and only shed blood untill Israel is removed from the face of the earth.
Hmm its International Law. But I don't blame you for being confused, Americans are rarely aware of that creature.
SAM, stop being gay. enough Israelis died just the same way. not just IDFers on patrol. seeing a guy beginning to drop the boulder is enough justification. there is absolutely no justification for the army's police to arrest the guy. they should've given him a medal for acting quickly to save his friends' lives.
Its an illegal occupation. What does it look like ? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
What do the Holocaust survivors say about the Apartheid wall? Has anyone asked them? I'm sure it brings back memories. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Well well, I was right. Holocaust survivor takes a stand Jewish woman recalls the loss of her loved ones, speaks against Israeli treatment of Palestinians http://dailybruin.com/news/2007/jan/16/holocaust-survivor-takes-a-sta/ A lot to be said for personal experience:
