I haven't had the chance to look them up and do some research yet. Hopefully soon. Thanks for the quotes.
The Vedas the Bhagavad Gita are different... Secondly, I'm not saying that humans are more elevated or higher than the devas, I'm saying that humans, even in this lifetime can become higher than the devas, suras, and rise to level of siddha or perfected being. Humans can indeed attain mystic perfections, just read the Srimad Bhagavatam 11.15....also in the Yoga Sutras there are many amazing powers described. Also if you read some Buddhist and Hindu stories you'll find mentions of people flying, walking on water, etc...(this is not new to the East). True, but the Srimad Bhavagatam 11.15 does and Yoga Sutras mentions walking on water. Here's more information about Siddhis and Vibhutis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibhuti Indeed they along with desire for wordly pleasure, attachment to material things, etc....are all impediments...but clearly humans can attain them. SB 11.15.32: For a sage who has conquered his senses, breathing and mind, who is self-controlled and always absorbed in meditation on Me, what mystic perfection could possibly be difficult to achieve? Could be true, however still humans who are liberated are higher than the devas, as Krsna states that elevation to the heavenly planets is useless, because you enjoy temporary pleasure and then come back. For a liberated soul there is no suffering to any extent. I'm not sure The Buddha we know today is an incarnation of Vishnu. Rather I think of him as another being who attained perfection. I remember reading a Buddhist scripture where Buddha was describing one of his previous existences where he lived a similar life and almost achieved perfection and met Upali (one of The Buddha's disciples). However those who understand Visnu, the supersoul, and the nature of things will clearly see that he can be considered an incarnation of Visnu. I'm sure Krsna himself would declare "Of the sunyavadis, I am The Buddha" Thats debatable, in some scriptures The Buddha is never mentioned, instead they claim that Balarama instead was the incarnation of Vishnu.
Before I go nuts looking up these quotes, please explain something to me. For a text to predict the coming of Siddhartha, it would have to predate Siddhartha, correct? There are no "Buddhist" texts that predate the Pali Canon, which was written after Siddhartha's death. How can any "Buddhist" text predict something that happened BEFORE it was written? Again, what am I missing?
Yes - the predictions of siddharta (sakhya buddha) are not found in buddhist scriptures -they are found however in various vedic texts as the visnu, vayu, Garuda and skanda purana as well as the srimad bhagavatam. the point with quoting the buddhist texts is that they discern that before sakhya buddha there was an adi buddha - the amara kosa was written by a buddhist called amarasingha who was born about 550 AD - he wrote many buddhist scriptures but they were mostly destroyed by Sankacharya (who appeared 150 years later) and who is responsible for re-introducing the vedas back into into India (ironically by advocating Mayavadism, which is essentially the same as buddhism) - it is said that Sankacharya established that adi buddha and sakhya buddha (they both went by the name of Gautama, but sakhya buddha was named thus because his guru's name was Gautama) were the same entity to make his task of defeating buddhist philosophy easier - the result is that the advent of buddhism was popularly credited with sakhya buddha instead of adi buddha - as this relates to the vedas, the advent of adi buddha is predicted, and it it is he, not sakhya buddha, who is established as a visnu avatara - the point with the buddhist scriptures is that they also acknowledge the distinctions between sakhya and adi buddha, although it may not be such common knowledge
VitalOne are you saying that the puranas are not part of the vedas or something else - if you don't think the puranas are part of the vedas why are you constantly quoting the srimad bhagavatam (amala purana)? Whatever your response please give some credible reference for your statement .... agreed - what i am contending however is thatyou have a misconception on the nature of that perferction - it appears that you think the perfection lies in mystic perfections, such as flying and walking on water - my contention is that the demigods are already equipped with such potencies - there is even a heavenly planet called siddhaloka - why the demigods, even the asuras and rakshasas have such perfections in stock - would you define them as perfected too? Yes - but these mystic perfections are concluded to be a waste of time and are already possessed by demigods - those demigods who realize the futility of mystic perfection desire to take birth on the earth because a high saturation of opulence (of the likes of the heavenly planets) makes the performance of bhakti more difficult but the next verse reads SB 11.15.33: Learned experts in devotional service state that the mystic perfections of yoga that I have mentioned are actually impediments and are a waste of time for one who is practicing the supreme yoga, by which one achieves all perfection in life directly from Me. so clearly such things are not advocated as the goal of life, even the goal of human life mystic perfection however does not constitute liberation. This is why krsna concludes in the chapter about mystic yoga BG 6.47: And of all yogīs, the one with great faith who always abides in Me, thinks of Me within himself, and renders transcendental loving service to Me — he is the most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all. That is My opinion. this statement that buddha being an ordinary person seeking liberation ( a human buddha, as opposed to a bodhi sattva or adi buddha) ..... ..... does not correlate with the idea of being vishnu - is there any evidence that a vishnu avatara endeavours to break the bonds of illusion and achieve liberation like an ordinary conditioned soul? as far as lila avatars go, the complete list looks like this Catuḥsana (the Kumāras), Nārada, Varāha, Matsya, Yajña, Nara-nārāyaṇa Ṛṣi, Kapila, Dattātreya, Hayagrīva, Haḿsa, Pṛśnigarbha, Ṛṣabha, Pṛthu, Nṛsiḿha, Kūrma, Dhanvantari, Mohinī, Vāmana, Paraśurāma, Dāśarathi, Kṛṣṇa-dvaipāyana, Balarāma, Vāsudeva, Buddha and Kalki. its not clear why you think balarama is Buddha since their lilas are quite incompatable Once again if you have a source for your statements please include it on a side note it is recommended that if one wants to read the bhagavatam they should start from the first canto - as each canto progresses different layers of spiritual truths are presented until it culminates inthe tenth canto - the eleventh canto is a summary of the entire bhagavatam (the twelfth is the conclusion or final remarks - try reading the last verse of the bhagavatam if you want to know about perfections ....) and it may not be appropriate to jump into it due to a lack of foundational knowledge - actually the bhagavatam is not a mundane book and understanding what it entails is fully dependant on the attitude of the reader
