did it start because some puffed up old men got some good ideas and began a revolution and through pomposity and evangelism word got around?
was it also then encouraged for its ability to explain away the unexplainable, to give hope to the hopeless?
why do we still have religion? for a moral/"eternal" safety net? because of being brainwashed as a kid?
will we have religion in the future? will atheists rule the world? what are the morals of atheists and can we trust them to be in charge. will life be better or worse if everyone were atheistic. how could we predict this objectively speaking? (could we find someone who is unsure whether or not he or she is atheist or deist?) enough questions. let's have some ideas.

lol' maybe maybe

As far as I'm concerned religion does not exist. There is no religion, it's all made-up stuff by stupid uneducated dimwits with little or nothing to fall back on (interest-wise). I pity anyone caught up in the ridiculious nonsense and especially anyone involved with Christianity. Christians are the scum of the earth, they constantly pine about their savior while ignoring the fact they've killed eachother over just about anything...

As you can tell I'm not a fool.

re·li·gion (r-ljn)
n.
1.
a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

It does exist... self-evidently

As you can tell I'm not a fool.
Yeah?

why is there religion?
Because some kids get leukaemia whereas others don't, and because some people struggle mentally with the idea of staring at the underside of a coffin-lid forever. Religion brings order from prospective chaos and reassures the huddled masses that life has ultimate value and that the grass will be infinitely greener on the other side.

didit start because some puffed old men got some good ideas and began a revolution and through ponposity and evangelism word got a around?
was it also then encouraged for its ability to explain away the unexplainable, to give hope to the hopeless?
why do we still have religion? for a moral/"eternal" safety net? because of being brainwashed as a kid?

What do you mean by "brainwashed". Seems youre taking the nurture vs nature side without evidence.


will we have religion in the future? will atheists rule the world? what are the morals of atheists and can we trust them to be in charge. will life be better or worse if everyone were atheistic. how could we predict this objectively speaking? (could we find someone who is unsure whether or not he or she is atheist or deist?) enough questions. let's have some ideas.

I am unsure of whether or not Im atheist or theist. Life will be worse if we were atheistic so then we'll just return to being theistic. The feeling, or the "seeing" (for some), has a life of it's own apart from our conscious will. Will is the reasoning power of the heart. The reasoning is what the mind does to lift the heart (as I surmise, not sure about this though, but is it not a customary practice in Buddhism to concentrate all energy into the heart? From which is the only part of the body, along with the mind, that is needed.)

The good news of Buddhism is that we can release clinging. We can free the mind. Or, if you prefer, you can call it "freeing the heart." The ultimate aim of Buddhist practice is to liberate the heart so there are no barriers, shackles, or constrictions to our heart's freedom. Usually freeing the heart begins in small steps, each bringing a corresponding peace. Freed completely, the heart is completely at peace. Complete freedom is not easily attained. It requires knowledge and training.

http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/articles/MindfulnessMeditation.html

Death is perfect, order does not come from religion :L

for the same reason there is philosophy.


peace.

for the same reason there is philosophy.


peace.

:( he's right

didit start because some puffed old men got some good ideas and began a revolution and through ponposity and evangelism word got a around?

no
was it also then encouraged for its ability to explain away the unexplainable, to give hope to the hopeless?
no
why do we still have religion? for a moral/"eternal" safety net? because of being brainwashed as a kid?
because god exists as the greatest "object"

will we have religion in the future?
yes, but probably the more materialistic strain of it

will atheists rule the world?
sometimes
just like a theisticly minded person might also for some time.
But ultimately the environment that human society waxes and wanes in is controlled by god

what are the morals of atheists and can we trust them to be in charge.
the morals of atheists, at best, are dictated by time place and circumstance - thus its difficult to trust a person who has no stable moral ground

will life be better or worse if everyone were atheistic.
worse

how could we predict this objectively speaking? (could we find someone who is unsure whether or not he or she is atheist or deist?)
atheistic societies, regardless whether they were as ideologically opposed as communist or fascist, commonly tend to churn out dictators bent on grossly disempowering members of society through numerous nefarious methods (once again, its difficult to trust these guys)


enough questions. let's have some ideas.[/QUOTE]

Because the truth exists, and true religion is there to help people realize the truth, and escape from this world of suffering....

Because some kids get leukaemia whereas others don't, and because some people struggle mentally with the idea of staring at the underside of a coffin-lid forever. Religion brings order from prospective chaos and reassures the huddled masses that life has ultimate value and that the grass will be infinitely greener on the other side.

this is ridiculous. the fact that some kids get leukemia and some don't is not dependent on anything "supernatural". when you're buried (formost people) you don't "stare at the underside of a coffin". you're dead. i would prefer that people are incinerated (in an environmentally friendly way) and dumped in a compost pit. you'll find this extreme but it follows from it not mattering in the least (what you do or what is done to you after you have kicked the bucket). religion does bring order, but this would also necessitate general brainwashing because there will always be people who will think independently from religious doctrine. Whether or not you feel that your life has value is independent from your religion, it may have more to do with your self-esteem and life goals and accomplishments. it was also fun playing make believe as a kid, but i'd like to grow up now.

What do you mean by "brainwashed". Seems youre taking the nurture vs nature side without evidence.



I am unsure of whether or not Im atheist or theist. Life will be worse if we were atheistic so then we'll just return to being theistic. The feeling, or the "seeing" (for some), has a life of it's own apart from our conscious will. Will is the reasoning power of the heart. The reasoning is what the mind does to lift the heart (as I surmise, not sure about this though, but is it not a customary practice in Buddhism to concentrate all energy into the heart? From which is the only part of the body, along with the mind, that is needed.)





atheistic morals are based on the moment, as i believe you said. so if you are president for example, then you would take oath to think and act in terms of the general vote. we don't have to have a christian president to keep from being subject to a power-hungry monster. as far as the buddhism stuff, it leaves far too many questions, and is very abstract. it's also hard to have any sort of conscious life in a religion (buddhism) that is so general. I'll have to refrain from replying to your last statement as i know not what you mean!

Death is perfect, order does not come from religion :L

Death is ultimate, and people are afraid to be what they have never been. since religion happened to (and was "destined" to) come before science, people grew comfortable with the idea that we would go to heaven when we die. instead of being comfortable with the fact that we just enter into unconsciousness when we die, we must believe in the Divine Gamble between heaven and hell, because it brings hope, direction, and the loud overbearing guy in the white robe says so.

no
no
because god exists as the greatest "object"

yes, but probably the more materialistic strain of it


sometimes
just like a theisticly minded person might also for some time.
But ultimately the environment that human society waxes and wanes in is controlled by god
the morals of atheists, at best, are dictated by time place and circumstance - thus its difficult to trust a person who has no stable moral ground


worse


atheistic societies, regardless whether they were as ideologically opposed as communist or fascist, commonly tend to churn out dictators bent on grossly disempowering members of society through numerous nefarious methods (once again, its difficult to trust these guys)


enough questions. let's have some ideas.[/QUOTE]

we have not had a power that is not fascist or communist ruled by an atheist. why can't a democratic society rely on atheistic ruling? if a christian ruled in a fascist government, would the dictatorship be any different? i feel it mightve been worse . people tend to alter their beliefs to their own motives (towards materialism), as modern americans bastardize their own evangelical teachings. it would be best if these alterations came not from religious teaching but from historical experience and objective judgement (didn't hitler believe that god told him to carry out his infamous deed?)

I'm disregarding your one-worded answers. if they were meant to be answered in a word, i couldve done that. they are meant for rhetoric speculation. we are discussing here, not dictating. (perhaps you feel a connection to fascist and/or communistic ideas?)

Zoroaster/Ibrahim/Abraham was born in an Atheist society, were no one believed in a God. He noticed all the sacrifices and idolatrism being done, and he got away from all that, even from his family.
He went away to meditate for 10 years, after he was so full of Wisdom, he wanted to share it with everybody else.
This was the start of monotheistic religion, were 1 God exists, and is called existance, he works through light and love.

So Zoroaster started a religion without even knowing it, and it was the start of all monotheistic religions around 1200 - 2000 BC.

Ironically, Zoroaster didnt teach religion, he tought about the Good Mentality, that is having good thoughts, speaking good words, and performing good deeds, very simple.

We have a soul, that if we understand, we can understand the ways of the Universe, as a Macro-Representation of our souls, that is what I call Religion, our link with God is each of our souls.

Religion is a men-invention, we should meditate as Buddhism teach, in order to attain knowledge, and convert that knowledge into wisdom with Love.

Zoroaster/Ibrahim/Abraham was born in an Atheist society, were no one believed in a God. He noticed all the sacrifices and idolatrism being done, and he got away from all that, even from his family.
He went away to meditate for 10 years, after he was so full of Wisdom, he wanted to share it with everybody else.
This was the start of monotheistic religion, were 1 God exists, and is called existance, he works through light and love.

So Zoroaster started a religion without even knowing it, and it was the start of all monotheistic religions around 1200 - 2000 BC.

Ironically, Zoroaster didnt teach religion, he tought about the Good Mentality, that is having good thoughts, speaking good words, and performing good deeds, very simple.

We have a soul, that if we understand, we can understand the ways of the Universe, as a Macro-Representation of our souls, that is what I call Religion, our link with God is each of our souls.

Religion is a men-invention, we should meditate as Buddhism teach, in order to attain knowledge, and convert that knowledge into wisdom with Love.

i recognize good mentality from the eightfold path (or some other fundament of Bhuddism). perhaps you can tell me some of the ideas of Bhuddism. it sounds like something i would like to adapt to my routine (I guess I'll just make my own morals based on combinations of appealing ideas). good mentality.. what exactly does that entail? what was zoroastrianism and did it come from zoroaster? what exactly do you mean each of our souls is a link with god? I'm not sure i follow ya on this, buddy.

The Christian faith is based upon real history, that makes it different from the others, and the hundreds of fulfilled prophecies, already, show that it was not dreamed up by a bunch of old guys looking for a ticket out of the pasture away from their sheep.

Zoroaster/Ibrahim/Abraham was born in an Atheist society, were no one believed in a God. He noticed all the sacrifices and idolatrism being done, and he got away from all that, even from his family.
He went away to meditate for 10 years, after he was so full of Wisdom, he wanted to share it with everybody else.
This was the start of monotheistic religion, were 1 God exists, and is called existance, he works through light and love.

So Zoroaster started a religion without even knowing it, and it was the start of all monotheistic religions around 1200 - 2000 BC.

Ironically, Zoroaster didnt teach religion, he tought about the Good Mentality, that is having good thoughts, speaking good words, and performing good deeds, very simple.

We have a soul, that if we understand, we can understand the ways of the Universe, as a Macro-Representation of our souls, that is what I call Religion, our link with God is each of our souls.

Religion is a men-invention, we should meditate as Buddhism teach, in order to attain knowledge, and convert that knowledge into wisdom with Love.
Why do you limit yourself only to Buddhism? Basically all other religions also teach the same things...

The Christian faith is based upon real history, that makes it different from the others, and the hundreds of fulfilled prophecies, already, show that it was not dreamed up by a bunch of old guys looking for a ticket out of the pasture away from their sheep.
Yeah, but there are also many other prophecies of other religions that are also fulfilled...

Like what?

Like what?

Like in Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc....lots of their prophecies have also been accurately fulfilled....

What prophecies?

theres no proof when theres possibility of coincidence. prohecies can also be lied about/not all that they seem. maybe you needed 2 grand and mysteriously someone sent you a bill with exactly two grand anonymously. did it occur to you that maybe someone read, your bills, overheard a conversation, or is your pal and works at a loan office. these are a few top of head examples.

The Christian faith is based upon real history, that makes it different from the others, and the hundreds of fulfilled prophecies, already, show that it was not dreamed up by a bunch of old guys looking for a ticket out of the pasture away from their sheep.


what makes you say this about other religions?

peace.

That is how people such as the Skinster say the Old Testament came to be.

The Christian faith is based upon real history, that makes it different from the others, and the hundreds of fulfilled prophecies, already, show that it was not dreamed up by a bunch of old guys looking for a ticket out of the pasture away from their sheep.

history..
oral (misconstrued almost each generation-divide years since said historical event, divide by 28, the average generation length (im guessing)) and how would any of us know anyway?
this knowledge to which you allude is very subjective sounding. evidence is nice, you know.
the most important, i believe, thing in considering information, is to first consider its source. but many people, especially in earlier years, were not scientifically oriented, so oral tradition is extremely reliable, as people lie, and lieing would certainly be encouraged in an oral history, to please the audience with more drama, of course!

What prophecies?

Well first tell me what prophecies in Christianity you find so compelling...

if this is now a matter of basing religion on the occurence of prophecies coming true, i would have no part in it. what if there were a scientific experiement done to see how people act when someone predicts that something will happen to them in the future? it is a very pointing point for m e to ask: don't you think, if you believed something a prophet told you, that you would structure your life around that foreseen event, thus encouraging it to happen? what about all the prophecies that didn't come true. why don't you ever hear about those? (it's more convenient to the life of religion to only give evidence in a one sided way. this is corrupt, wrong, and ridiculous to think that people can consciously give in to these methods). a similar tragedy happened to science. if you readthe mismeasure of man you will learn of a "scientific" study done to correlate brain size with race. long story short, the data was added and specific things were disregarded to make it look like the whites were smartest, and blacks stupid, etc. etc. they also drew pictures of black men and compared them to apes. this type of data tweaking is attrocious and is probably the thing that makes me loathe.. not disagree with.. religion. i disagree with religion because of its origin. that's not the point. blacks are not apes, brain size is proportional to body size. it is probably brain complexity which accounts for "intelligence". there, now youve learned something.

relocated to the debate of religion, in the religion section.

As far as I'm concerned religion does not exist.Religion definitely exists. Most of what you love and most of what you hate has some root in religion.
There is no religion, it's all made-up stuff by stupid uneducated dimwits with little or nothing to fall back on (interest-wise). Dimwits? Have you ever read some of the stuff some of the founders of religion have written? There's Vedic science that's consistent with today's science. I believe the Daodejing says something to the effect of man destroys everything he interacts with some inside it. That's still true today(ie the environment, other species, each other). Wasn't Buddha a prince in India(probably one of the most advanced cultures at that time)? I doubt he was uneducated. For Christianity to have such a hold on the western world for so long, I'm sure its founders had some level of knowledge of sociology. Maybe you could say most religious people today are morons(maybe, there's a lot of idiot atheists too), but not the founders.

i dont really understand what you mean by what i love and hate is religious.
i dont know what i meant about dimwits. probably just an immature expression of my dislike. my apologies. i am sure the founders were of the smartest people around. what i think i really think (?) is that people who follow (smart) religious people are idiots. does that help? of course, I'm calling you an idiot so i dont know if you consider that help or a frontal attack. anyway perhaps you can elaborate on what vedic science is and some evidence of it?

i recognize good mentality from the eightfold path (or some other fundament of Bhuddism). perhaps you can tell me some of the ideas of Bhuddism. it sounds like something i would like to adapt to my routine (I guess I'll just make my own morals based on combinations of appealing ideas). good mentality.. what exactly does that entail? what was zoroastrianism and did it come from zoroaster? what exactly do you mean each of our souls is a link with god? I'm not sure i follow ya on this, buddy.

I can tell you some of the ideas of Buddhism, but dude, there is a VAST ammount of information, so I´m not sure what do you want me to elaborate? There is just too much literature, I can´t just put it all in here...

Zoroastrianism is to Zoroaster, as Christianity is to Jesus. The original teachings of Zoroaster (Zarathustra) were misinterpreted and misconceived, just like the teachings of Jesus.
Friedrich W. Nietzsche puts this into a very good perspective in his book called: "Thus Spoke Zarathustra".

About the soul thing: Ok, so the Universe is Eternal and Infinite, and by its very nature, very difficult to understand with our current, temporary, underdeveloped brains. This limitations we humans encounter in this matters, made our ancestor come up with the word "God", which is just a word, but no one can really understand God, it is indeed, the incognisible.

The thing is, each of us have a soul with the very same natural principles intrinsic in the Universe. This you can only understand better by deep, true meditation. I believe the Orientals have this last matter covered, they have been perfectioning this practices "Tantra" for thousands of years.

They call the soul: the "Micro-Cosmos", and the Universe is the "Macro-Cosmos". But they are just as similar as a branch is from its tree. By understanding the branch, you can have a better understanding of the tree.

That is what I mean when I say that our souls are our link with God. "Homo nosce te ipsum": "Human, understand yourself, and you will understand the Universe, and God".

Why do you limit yourself only to Buddhism? Basically all other religions also teach the same things...

Well, not really, I think Buddhism is were most knowledge about meditation exist. They are the ones that have been documenting Meditation for more than 3000 years.

Jesus himself went to the dessert and meditate, but the Bible doesn´t teach you how did he meditate does it?

Well, not really, I think Buddhism is were most knowledge about meditation exist. They are the ones that have been documenting Meditation for more than 3000 years.

Jesus himself went to the dessert and meditate, but the Bible doesn´t teach you how did he meditate does it?

Gautama Buddha got all his meditation techniques from Hinduism...didn't you know that? He went to learn from Asloka (I think thats the name), a famous spiritual teacher at the time, who taught him how to control his emotions, thoughts, etc....

The most knowledge on meditation exists in Hinduism, since it is where it originally developed, and control of the body, mind, senses, etc...is more emphasized as well the fact that reality is an illusion (this is more emphasized in Hinduism than in Buddhism)

we have not had a power that is not fascist or communist ruled by an atheist.
[/QUOTE]
surprise surprise?

why can't a democratic society rely on atheistic ruling?
rely on time place and circumstance?

if a christian ruled in a fascist government, would the dictatorship be any different?
no, because rulership in strict accordance with time place and circumstance as the primary consideration delivers the identical result, regardless of what one party one aligns with

i feel it mightve been worse . people tend to alter their beliefs to their own motives (towards materialism), as modern americans bastardize their own evangelical teachings.
exactly - time place and circumstance ruins everything as the primary consideration

[QUOTE] it would be best if these alterations came not from religious teaching but from historical experience and objective judgement (didn't hitler believe that god told him to carry out his infamous deed?)
learning from history is only of value if one can understand that history repeats itself - and if history is shows the problems of not having a solid standard, what then?

I'm disregarding your one-worded answers. if they were meant to be answered in a word, i couldve done that. they are meant for rhetoric speculation. we are discussing here, not dictating. (perhaps you feel a connection to fascist and/or communistic ideas?)
discussing about turfing out religion falls under what banner exactly?

when you're buried (formost people) you don't "stare at the underside of a coffin".
They do if they get BURIED ALIVE!!!!

You can be fascist about your religion, country, race and anything else. You can be communistic about these just the same.

There are many who are communistic, fascist, religious americans for example. The absurd part is they identify themselves differently though their attitudes or beliefs may not truly align with their labels. It's similar to an asshole thinking they are nice. Think about the negative aspects of communism means, they are many who look out for thier own or party's welfare while exploiting or ignoring another. This is still communistic in some way as well if we were using pure identifications. Labels are just that, labels and just like anything else can be used to rally, deceive or mislead and hide whats beyond it. What matters is whats really going on.

They do if they get BURIED ALIVE!!!!

percisely the intended implication

we have not had a power that is not fascist or communist ruled by an atheist.

surprise surprise?

rely on time place and circumstance?

no, because rulership in strict accordance with time place and circumstance as the primary consideration delivers the identical result, regardless of what one party one aligns with

exactly - time place and circumstance ruins everything as the primary consideration


learning from history is only of value if one can understand that history repeats itself - and if history is shows the problems of not having a solid standard, what then?


discussing about turfing out religion falls under what banner exactly?

yes. if we relied on judgement based on logic, we could kill babies and not have moral consequences. i'm referring to religion. im pretty sure that murder should be illegal, and i have pretty much no knowledge of government

i meant if a ruler ruled with christian ideals (i.e. 10 commands.) what if we adjusted the standards to a solid scientific logic. we could test it on a small scale first, maybe. i think it would be ridiculous to throw a random joe in the seat of presidency and tell him to "use common sense". there would be committees and such. but religion should definitely be removed from politics. anything that represents the people should not take religious sides. there atheists in america. america represents the people. the constitution says that (somewhere). the fact that our pledge says that we're "under" "god" is because the founders happened to be christian. now that we're mixed religions, we should adjust. that's what the bill of rights is for. remember this is around the period of the spanish inquisition, and the evangelical motives could have seeped through into the founding fathers. this should be investigated and checked for plausible accuracy.

It started when people who performed austerities and sacrifices combined to formalize their thoughts together to form a group.

does that answer your question?


Rick

surprise surprise?



yes. if we relied on judgement based on logic, we could kill babies and not have moral consequences. i'm referring to religion. im pretty sure that murder should be illegal, and i have pretty much no knowledge of government

i meant if a ruler ruled with christian ideals (i.e. 10 commands.) what if we adjusted the standards to a solid scientific logic. we could test it on a small scale first, maybe. i think it would be ridiculous to throw a random joe in the seat of presidency and tell him to "use common sense". there would be committees and such. but religion should definitely be removed from politics. anything that represents the people should not take religious sides. there atheists in america. america represents the people. the constitution says that (somewhere). the fact that our pledge says that we're "under" "god" is because the founders happened to be christian. now that we're mixed religions, we should adjust. that's what the bill of rights is for. remember this is around the period of the spanish inquisition, and the evangelical motives could have seeped through into the founding fathers. this should be investigated and checked for plausible accuracy.
first of all there are two aspects to religion - one you could argue is mundane, and pertains to sectarian followings (join a mosque and burn down a church or join a church and burn down a mosque and another part deals with the ultimate connection between the living entity and god, which tends to be head and shoulders above such things

secondly, power can always be misused - it is not sufficient to indicate that because someone in a position of power behaved inappropriately, that the position should be turfed out - after all how many husbands have we see cheating on wives (should we turf out 'husbands') how many politicians have we seen cheating on the public (should we turf out politicians) etc etc

obviously its not practical to turf out these positions - what is practical however is to have knowledge of what the proper standards for a position are - what makes a good husband, what makes a good politician ... and also what makes a good theist

what makes a good theist? is this hand in hand with what makes a good politician?

Because of the human brain, it's hardwired - magical thinking.

wow. how long do you have to spend each day to get 14k posts??

I have seen him here ever since i joined (seems like a long time back) and there was a point when we (me and him) had equal number of posts, well almost. :|

Gautama Buddha got all his meditation techniques from Hinduism...didn't you know that? He went to learn from Asloka (I think thats the name), a famous spiritual teacher at the time, who taught him how to control his emotions, thoughts, etc....

The most knowledge on meditation exists in Hinduism, since it is where it originally developed, and control of the body, mind, senses, etc...is more emphasized as well the fact that reality is an illusion (this is more emphasized in Hinduism than in Buddhism)

No man, I didn´t know that, thanks!!!

I´m currently learning meditation from the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra. A text consisting entirely of meditation techniques written in India 5000 years ago.

I ignorantly thought that was buddhism, but it doesn´t really matter to me from a practical perspective.