well i guess the title says it all

(im sleepy now will add more here tomorow if i need to, cant think straigh)

Originally posted by Asguard
...why is homosexuality more taboo among men than women?Who says that it is?

:m: Peace.

Probably cause we live in a male-dominated society, and men like seeing women together...

Though, now that I think about it, I don't know any women that would want to see men together.... :bugeye:

Because seeing two women together is more pleasing to the eye than two men, for most guys and women. Maybe it's also the roles that men and women have in society, women are thought to be much more sensual than men, while men are thought to be macho.

Men are naturally more critical, and judgemental.

Example:

Cross dressing for men, regardless of whether they think about it, or understand why, is by majority unquestionably wrong. Also when was the last time you heard about a cross dressing women? Answer you don't, because they do it all the time, most seamingly without ever realizing it. This is just one of the many examples of the more obivious but less observed mental predispositons, caused by the appearnt mismatch of concentration of computational powers, due to the biologically predifined roles of male and female men.

Binary,
Great point. I'd have to say that is the most likely explanation.

Originally posted by Binary
Cross dressing for men... Crossdressing does not necessarily denote homosexuality, so the two need not be related. I am still waiting to hear something that establishes the fact that male homosexuality is more taboo than female homosexuality. In order to make this statement, you have to include both men and women in the statistics. Many, many women with whom I have discussed lesbianism find the thought of sexual contact with another woman repulsive.

:m: Peace.

I think you missed the reference.

Originally posted by goofyfish
Crossdressing does not necessarily denote homosexuality, so the two need not be related. I am still waiting to hear something that establishes the fact that male homosexuality is more taboo than female homosexuality. In order to make this statement, you have to include both men and women in the statistics. Many, many women with whom I have discussed lesbianism find the thought of sexual contact with another woman repulsive.

:m: Peace.

I think it has to do with the way the media portrays sexuality in society.

If a woman kisses another women, she isn't neccessarily portrayed as gay or even bi for that matter. TV shows and Movies portray two women together all the time, and has desentisized the "so-called shock" of lesbian relations. Listen to interviews with female celebrities about their sexcapes and you'll find that a good lot of them have "experimented" with other women. Yet they are straight women.

On the flipside, the image of two men together hasn't been desentisized by the media. Because of this, the same repulsion and taboo that was put on lesbianism, still remains on gay relationships. The image of two men, goes against what the media has told us to find attractive in society.

These attitudes change throughtout, and its anyones guess how we will feel in the future, for example. The ancient Greeks had a more liberal society, and many of the taboos we have weren't there. America in the 1700's, had a more consertative society, that didn't even want women to wear pants(way too man'y for a lady).

The only way to change attitudes in society is to change it's influences. The media over the last 50 years has become the defining force in the way people shape their perspectives and ideas. It used to be religion, but I feel the media has taken over the title. So the way to changes attitudes is through the media.

I'm not promoting Christina Aguilera but her last video showed 2 men kissing through out the video, and I thought that was pretty brave. Yet at the same time we still have Eminem denoting homosexuality until someone gets upset, then says he's kidding... But if you can call this progress, then we're in the right direcntion.

I see where this is coming from

A group of guys will be at full attention (no pun intended lol) where it comes to Lesbians, but when it comes to homosexual men, they usually want to beat the crap outta them

Originally posted by Thor
I see where this is coming from

A group of guys will be at full attention (no pun intended lol) where it comes to Lesbians, but when it comes to homosexual men, they usually want to beat the crap outta them
I don't think the typical reaction is to beat the crap out of them, IMO. That is usually reserved for a guy who is so insecure about his own sexuality, that he needs to prove how much a man he is to himself.

Power. It seems weirder to have one guy "submit" to another guy than it does for a girl to submit to another girl.

hmm good point Xev...
Men hate to see weak men. Men love to see weak women. The taker is usually the weak one.

yeah, something I just learned last year in fact-

men (when going for women) just pick the easiest prey,
generally.
this is a generalization, of course, and only true for the
majority of guys I've seen picking up girls in bars and
places as designated picking-up ground.

susan.. trust me, it depends how desperate and macho the guy is..
I always try to pick the best one. Usually she doesn't meet my standards. :)
Although there were a few desperate evenings...

funny, this.
a friend of mine kind of creeps me out, yet he is super-intelligent.
so I always wonder if I don't want to pick him up because
he's just "too difficult" or if there is actually a reason I don't
want to pick him up, like he is mostly pathetic and "proving"
something. hmmm. you can never know people, not really;
they change too quickly.

Look at the generalizations fly!
Who in the hell would want a mousy girl as a S.O.?

:m: Peace.

Originally posted by susan
funny, this.
a friend of mine kind of creeps me out, yet he is super-intelligent.
so I always wonder if I don't want to pick him up because
he's just "too difficult" or if there is actually a reason I don't
want to pick him up, like he is mostly pathetic and "proving"
something. hmmm. you can never know people, not really;
they change too quickly. Yes, some people can change too quickly. It is therefore not to pay too much attention to the sugarcoating, try read between the lines, try to sense insights on respect, starting by investing time on men that as a norm level themselves to you. Since relationship mostly begin in friendship, you would never make friends with someone not sensitive towards you right? So, why would you pick up a date with fewer standards??;)

Originally posted by Binary
Men are naturally more critical, and judgemental.

Example:

Cross dressing for men, regardless of whether they think about it, or understand why, is by majority unquestionably wrong. Also when was the last time you heard about a cross dressing women? Answer you don't, because they do it all the time, most seamingly without ever realizing it. This is just one of the many examples of the more obivious but less observed mental predispositons, caused by the appearnt mismatch of concentration of computational powers, due to the biologically predifined roles of male and female men.

Ok I'm comming into this a little late, So this post is a little far back.

I'd have to argue against the idea of "biologically predefined roles" It's all social conditioning in my opinion.

unless you've spent many hours in a women's
bathroom at a wedding you really haven't heard
critical and judgemental. or middle school girls at break.
harshest critics possible!

"men (when going for women) just pick the easiest prey,
generally."

Where did you learn this? Besides being a gross generalization with no backing proof, as a man I actually fully disagree with this. And believe me, I'm not trying to back my gender, we're rather a sad bunch. But I can safely say that of all the men I know the vast majority tend to go for the hardest to get. There is the odd one who simply goes for the easy score, but he is rare.

My friend Sterling told me this. He's an asshole.
I like him.

"My friend Sterling told me this. He's an asshole.
I like him."

Ah, that would generally fit the mold you've laid out for yourself so far in discussion.

Here's a hint, susan; when one person tells you something, it does not make it a fact. Therefore it is not something you've "learned". Just a hint.

I'd have to argue against the idea of "biologically predefined roles" It's all social conditioning in my opinion.

ABCNEWS.com : Study Questions 'Sex Reassignment' (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/sex_reassignment0515.html)

I'd say it's mostly genetic, because men are different from women and they have different personalities. They are naturally more dominant and critical of people. However, it could be because of the strong Christian background most of us have. In Greece, I can remember hearing/reading that homosexuality was openly accepted, especially in Sparta. :bugeye:

Balder1:

I disagree. Women are incredibly controlling - it's just that men don't realize how we do it. As for critical - my god, women are much, much more critical of one another than men are.

At least, such is my experience.

ndrs:
hmm good point Xev...
Men hate to see weak men. Men love to see weak women. The taker is usually the weak one.

I don't know if men love weak women or not - I don't think y'all have the slightest fucking clue what you want.

But yes, the "taker", the one who penetrates, is thought of being the stronger/dominent partner. Balder1 mentioned the Greeks.

While homosexuality was accepted and celebrated in Greece, it was with the understanding that a boy would be the submissive partner of a man. A man who allowed himself to be penetrated was thought to be effiminate.

The Levitical prohibition against male homosexuality prohibits not homosexual sex, but only taking the "bottom" - i.e penetrated - role.

It is interesting to note that the same expressions used by the gay subculture to denote penetration/being penetrated (top/bottom, respectively) are used by sadomasochists to denote dominence and submission.

The Kama Sutra expresses trepidation about the character of anyone who would willingly blow a man - such a person is considered to be unclean and unchaste.

And so on and so forth. More examples spring to mind, but I'm going to shut up before I start babbling about the Fulani.

I think I have illustrated that males are generally more intolerent of male homosexuality because a man who would submit to being penetrated is a frightening reminder of their own weakness.

After all, what red-blooded man has anything against lesbians? :)

I think it's cool for guys to be the weak ones. When I see a gay couple I think it's kind of cute. When I see lesbians I'm like "yuck."

Male or female, spearsDracona?

And why is it "cool" for guys to be weak?
And why are lesbians "icky"?

Hey! Lesbians are not icky. I like 'em a lot. Really. Seriously. Long live cute, hot lesbians.

Seriously, though, perhaps it is because porn really sells? And men watch a heck of a lot more porn than women? And lesbian couples exhibit more curves pleasing to the eye than men do?

Maybe I should follow Xev's example and shut up before I start babbling about ... um ... *zips*

Zero:

Well yeah, that's another thing. Lesbians are way more fun to watch, simply because women are prettier and curvier and we also smell nicer and have way less hair.

But even if it's not porn, there is way less hostility among men to lesbians than there is to gay guys. I mean, yeah - sexual attraction is part of the picture, but is it all?

Well, it is for -

I'm not saying any more! Lest I spout more stuff that make me look like a horny moron.

well if you're a slightly homophobic man seeing two lesbians doesn't really rattle you. The thought of a man with another man is what bothers you. what women do with each other isn't the issue.

oh, and as said in seinfeld:
"a woman's body is a work of art, the male body is utilitarian"

HEY... PEOPLE. WTF? It's testosterone and aggression. There is a one goddamn dick limit to every sexual fantasy that a normal motherfucker has. MINE. No other cocks exists in my world... understood? I will kick your ass if you come at me with your wood. Dig it? It's taboo cuz goddamn jock dickweeds kick the shit out of people they deem fags. Simple as that. It's a real risk to be a gay guy.

Oh, and I can't believe you bring that shit "who says it is?" If that's what you think you've got a pretty fucking distorted view on the world. I don't hate gay guys, or even dislike them unless their femms.. and then only if they're just too faggy, you know.. everyone's known someone who's just way too faggy... but they're not welcome in my fucking bedroom if you follow.

Oh, and bisexuality is every guys fantasy regarding chicks. We all want two chicks, please don't say "who says we do?" cuz you know you either don't represent the norm, or you're fucked in the head.

Isn't this shit obvious?

Originally posted by SpearsDracona
I think it's cool for guys to be the weak ones. When I see a gay couple I think it's kind of cute. When I see lesbians I'm like "yuck."

Hehehehe... *points and says* Fag! LOL.

(did you see that Kids in the Hall skit? Don't kill me with your giant bearclaw!)


(no offense intended.. just saying you are showing your colors bro!)

Oh, and bisexuality is every guys fantasy regarding chicks. We all want two chicks,

how true.
why does the whole two at once fantasy seem more common among men than women?:bugeye:

For a woman, having two men is about degradation.

For a man, having two women is about having a harem.

The first is more of an aesthetic thing, the second is more the urge to have as many offspring as possible. In other words, the first is more personal.

HAHAHAHHAH

as if lady

you think my "friend":p and i dont flirt as much as i have with females your dead WRONG

problem is we both want to play hard to get:p

Asguard

problem is we both want to play hard to get:p [/B]



** You mean women don't want you. :bugeye:

These conferences are also concerned with homophobia. Homophobia is very important: it is very important to the way male supremacy works. In my opinion, the prohibitions against male homosexuality exist in order to protect male power. Do it to her. That is to say: as long as men rape, it is very important that men be directed to rape women. As long as sex is full of hostility and expresses both power over and contempt for the other person, it is very important that men not be declassed, stigmatized as female, used similarly. The power of men as a class depends on keeping men sexually inviolate and women sexually used by men. Homophobia helps maintain that class power: it also helps keep you as individuals safe from each other, safe from rape. If you want to do something about homophobia, you are going to have to do something about the fact that men rape, and that forced sex is not incidental to male sexuality but is in practice paradigmatic.

--A. Dworkin

Interesting stance.

thats really strange

because i know quite a LOT of guys who are submissive

most of them just like to be tied up themselves (im SO NOT subissive:p)

what's on your mind Asguard? something you need to get off your chest.......
I think the acceptance of homosexuality depends on the individual.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA

actully i when i started this thread i had a THEORY of why it MIGHT be

nothing to do with any of that

did you know more females than males are born?

and if we say that we started out living in a herem type relationships, ie one guy and say 20 girls then the "lesbinanisum" among girls maybe less to do with homosexuality and more to do with the reason cows mount eachother, ie they are horny and the guys screwing another girl right now

And submission in males is ridiculed widely by other males in the popular culture. We understand the phrase "pussy whipped" to be metaphorical and not literal, and apply the term with contempt.

Of course, a man of discernment would not be troubled by the petty babble of sheep, but you see my point? Outside perhaps the sub-culture of sadomaschism, it is considered rather contemptable for a man to respect his lover's commands - let alone obey them.

ah, but a man of discernment rarely finds himself in a position to be considered "pussy whipped" by anyone...

hahhahahaha

god i wish i could intro u to him xev

apart from being VERY cute he is VERY submissive:D

wes:
ah, but a man of discernment rarely finds himself in a position to be considered "pussy whipped" by anyone...

Life's a bitch, ain't it?

*Xev's eyes water in compassion*

Ant, well, at least your friend is doing better than our "man of discernment".

Xev,

so you're saying life will pimp you down like a common street whore? no. uh.. so you're saying that... wait. what? hehe.. I hate it when I don't get it. surely you're not calling ME pussy whipped.

this must be one of those rare occasions.. :)

*curses Xev*

:p

i know xev

hes got ME:p

wes:
so you're saying life will pimp you down like a common street whore? no. uh.. so you're saying that... wait. what? hehe.. I hate it when I don't get it.

Life sucks, then you die, then the worms will eat your eyes.

Sorry, I'm feeling poetic.

surely you're not calling ME pussy whipped.

*Giggles*

Nope.
But then, I wouldn't call that much of an insult at all.

Originally posted by Xev
wes:
Life sucks, then you die, then the worms will eat your eyes.


You know, you just made me realize that (and all the related disgusting ick) is why cremation has always seemed such an appealing post mortem game plan.

Originally posted by Xev
The Kama Sutra expresses trepidation about the character of anyone who would willingly blow a man - such a person is considered to be unclean and unchaste.


haha, oh shit. SUCKS to be me I guess. . . umm in more ways than one.

Does the same hold true for a straight guy who would go muff diving?

Originally posted by Xev
Zero:

Well yeah, that's another thing. Lesbians are way more fun to watch, simply because women are prettier and curvier and we also smell nicer and have way less hair.


in the name of effeminant little twinks everywhere, I have to object to this comment, haha.

Originally posted by Lady
Asguard





** You mean women don't want you. :bugeye:

That's pretty damn nasty of you, Lady, especialy seeing how as it's a proven fact that gay guys get all the girls, haha.

Do you mean to imply that bachelorism is what causes homosexuality? That's a very intoresting theory, time to write a doctoral thesis, methinks. . . well so long as you are ok with being laughed out of your university. . .

Lets take a poll of straight guys out there who haven't had a real date in lets say, about a year (Come on, this is the internet, we know you're here) now how many of you have ever been able to sit down in your apartment and just 'decide' to turn gay because the whole chasing after girls thing isn't working for you? Even just for maybe 5 minuets or so, while you were a little drunk? no? No one? Ohhh, that's right, because Lady doesn't have a fricking clue what she's talking about.

ohhhh

i can i can:p

i can go back and forth as much as i like:D

hehehhehehehe

Originally posted by Mystech
[QUOTE]That's pretty damn nasty of you, Lady, especialy seeing how as it's a proven fact that gay guys get all the girls, haha.

** So what is your definition of Gay?

Do you mean to imply that bachelorism is what causes homosexuality? That's a very intoresting theory, time to write a doctoral thesis, methinks. . . well so long as you are ok with being laughed out of your university. . .


** No I didn't imply bachelor hood lead to homosexuality

Lets take a poll of straight guys out there who haven't had a real date in lets say, about a year (Come on, this is the internet, we know you're here) now how many of you have ever been able to sit down in your apartment and just 'decide' to turn gay because the whole chasing after girls thing isn't working for you? Even just for maybe 5 minuets or so, while you were a little drunk? no? No one? Ohhh, that's right, because Lady doesn't have a fricking clue what she's talking about.



** At least you admitt it's not a gene, futhermore, does not nature teach females want ALPHA'S male's?

Who says gay guys can't be alphas?

Me, I'm still crying over learning that Clive Barker (http://www.altfactor.gr/cvimages/barker.jpg) is gay.

lady are u jealouse that i have twice the range to chose from?:D

Originally posted by Lady
** So what is your definition of Gay?

A guy who's into cock, and not so very interested in twat :p I think it'd be better if you asked me what I meant by 'get' in that statement.




Originally posted by Lady
** No I didn't imply bachelor hood lead to homosexuality

You did too, miss priss, who the hell are you trying to fool? You said that Asguard must have turned to doing guys because girls won't touch him. Care to interperate that in some strange and mysterious way other than what the words clearly mean, so that we may all understand how you REALLY meant it?





Originally posted by Lady
** At least you admitt it's not a gene, futhermore, does not nature teach females want ALPHA'S male's?

Hey I never said it wasn't a gene, could well be for all I know. Also I urge you to learn better grammar, saying "does not nature tach females want alpha's males?" doesn't read right at all, I'll assume that you meant to say "Does not nature teach that females want alpha males?" instead.

First off, what deranged argument is "doesn't nature teach. . . yadda yadda" Doesn't nature also teach that we should all strip naked and live in the trees?

And what exactly do you mean by an alpha male? How does that translate into human society? Do you mean to imply that what women want is a guy who can yell really loud and beat up all the other guys who come near a particular girl? This is not the impression I got from the movie, "What women want" but then I've never trusted Mel Gibson, haha.

By Alpha do you mean more assertive and successfull? Because in that instanse I don't think your implication that straight guys can be alphas, but not gay guys, doesn't exactly hold up. Please do elaborate for us, we're hanging on your every hate filled ignorant word.

Originally posted by Asguard
lady are u jealouse that i have twice the range to chose from?:D


** Anybody can get laid by both sexes... why would I be jealous?

Guys are "supposed" to be ladies men (according to social norms), and going out with another dude is just not as accepted by guys. I don't think girls really care; they see it as a man stepping up and making a decision. Eh, but what do I know. It is really dumb. Gay people are just as good or bad as anyone else.

By the way, isn't it odd that girls love to have a gay best friend that they can talk to, but guys just want a lesbian best friend to have sex with with another girl?

A God fearing man that knows he's a man and he lives it. Alpha

sounds like you're saying Alpha=straight.

I would think a man with enough balls to have no fear of an omnipotent being would qualify as an Alpha male:p

Originally posted by Lady
Mystech
** I didn't say tach



I assume you mean to say that you didn't mean 'that'. And yes you did indeed, third page, 4th post from the bottom, it's right there, denying it isn't going to help your argument, it takes away from your credability when everyone can see your lie sitting right in front of them.

Also, I wouldn't exactly call a God fearing man an 'alpha'. More like a sheap enslaved by others because of his frightend child mentality, what a joke.

Blasphemy is a victimless crime, you know.

Also, I don't see how this description would prohibit a gay man from being an 'alpha' I am unfortunate enough to know a fair number of very religious gay men (a lot of guys freak out and get creepy religious once they figure out that they are gay). And also, are you trying to imply, in your definition that a gay man can not live as a man?

By the way, your short responses are appreciated, the less of your idiotic babbling I have to hear as I verbally bitch slap you, the better.

Yes, that’s rather harsh and bitter, but then I have a very special and sharp hatred for religious homophobes. When the revolution comes, they’ll be the first against the wall.

Originally posted by Lady
** Calm down it's not a big deal

Acctualy I find that it is a big deal when people try to win arguments through lieing. Tell me, what kind of good moral Christian are you, when you sink to that level? More important what sort of idiot are you to think you could acctualy get away with it?



Originally posted by Lady
** And what makes a homosexual a Alpha?Perhaps when he puts on his dress?

What kind of narow minded bigot are you? Do you really mean to imply that you beleive all homosexuals are cross dressers? I've got news for you, simpleton, there is only one thing that makes a person a homosexual (If you have to ask, I'll be glad to shout at you for another post or two), and putting on a dress sure as hell isn't it. Most homosexuals aren't drag queens, most of us seem just like straight guys, TV may have given you the impression that we're all limp wristed lisping sissies, but the fact that you'd beleive that is proof of your ignorance!

Oh, by the way, on another vague and more threatening note, we're also armed (http://www.pinkpistols.org).
I don't mean to imply anything, just that you can't opress people thusly and expect them to continue taking it. . .


Originally posted by Lady
** Listen ......A GAY MALE IS NOT A MAN -SIMPLE

A gay man is at least twice the man a hate filled homophobe is.


Originally posted by Lady
** :cool: Genuine Christains win in the end.

Those with hearts full of hate, and who have nothing but words of anger toward their fellow men are not true Christians, you pervert the ideals that they stand for. To have such horrable views about a person just because of who they love. . . it's practicaly criminal, and some day I'm sure you'll be made to pay the price.

Sodom and Gamorrah wasn't about homosexuality, beleive it or not, nor was it about the more common interperitation of being about sexual promiscuity. It's a very old story which exists outside of the bible, as well, and is about bad hospitality, essentialy. I'll find you some links, later.

The rest of your post is just drivel, I'm inclined to think that not even you beleive anything you're saying, you clearly didn't put any thought into it, just the same reflexive responces that one can get out of any brainwashed cultist who's backed into a corner.

prev by Lady

"No hard feelings.....but you'll never convince me that a homo is a man"

I'm wondering what sort of definition of "man" you're working with here. To me it sounds like you're only including, as you said, God fearing christians. And of course no gay man, i mean gay nonman, could fit this criteria. Are we ignoring the person's character alltogether and just concentrating on their bedroom activites, or are we just asuming that being gay of course means that you must have other detrimental qualities as well?

to qoute the big lebowski:
"What is it that makes a man. Doing the right thing whatever the cost?"
"eh, that and a pair of testicles"

lady DONT POST THAT GARBAGE IN MY SECTION

first buy a dictionary

man n, pl (always wondered what those mean) men 1 an adult male human being, as distingwished from a women (that would be you, i think) 2 a human being of either sex; person; all men are born equal 3 a collective of human beings

lady dave is in a cleaning mood
i would hate to see you swept away as well

Originally posted by Lady
** There's only so many way's I can say it, for the last time, homosexuals aren't men. Women don't usually want a bi -sexual, tri- sexual, or quad -sexual male. Just a simple man.

What kind of simpleton are you? First off I dont' see how "What women want" plays into what makes a man a man. And again, you fail to really say WHY you think that a gay man isn't a man?

Oh by the way tri-sexual and quad-sexual are really cute words, we're all very impressed, maybe next year you can move on with the rest of the 3rd graders. I don't like your implication that homosexuality, or bisexuality is somehow some sort of laughable exsess or the like. Homosexuals like the company of the same sex, where as bisexuals have sexual desires for both men and women, it's quite as simple as that, and not some sort of joke. . . unlike yourself.

Originally posted by Lady
**It's a test and homosexuality is just another tempatation set before men. The strong overcome the weak fall- that's life.

I don't understand you, here. Are you trying to imply that ALL men feel sexual desire toward other men? Wouldn't that make ALL of them gay, or at least bisexual? I think you're pretty mixed up, here.

Also, what exactly do you mean about the strong overcoming the weak? You HAVE noticed that we filthy sodomites have been growing more bold, and gaining more and more acceptance over the past few decades, right? Mayhap you have also noticed that every culture throughout history has eventually come to accept us, given enough time. I'm wondering who was really supported by your "The strong overcome" statement.

I won't even touch your claim(Which belongs in the dark ages, by the way) that demons caused homosexuality, I think it's time to get a more enlightened view of the world, abandon your narrow stupid little views, realize you can't just believe everything that someone tells you, it makes you look like an ass.

lady dave is in a cleaning mood
i would hate to see you swept away as well

Oh please, oh please....

** Homosexulity was one of the reasons the twin cities were destroyed and used for a example, to the children of Isreal that there shoud be no sodomizer

"Sodomite". Although "Sodomizer" would be a good name for a Death Metal band.

Originally posted by Mystech
What kind of simpleton are you? First off I dont' see how "What women want" plays into what makes a man a man. And again, you fail to really say

** What about those who have sexual desires for children and animals, and televison sets... those poor poor humans... they just want love. Why should they be discriminated against? Where are their rights?Father Pervert just wants to pray for the kiddies, in his own way,to his own god, should he be denyed and ostrichized for being himself?. ... We're is the justice... for the poor, poor humans, they just want love.....your so full of hate... simpleton.. because you don't try these things.....

Asguard, Xev

Dave doesn't have to kick me off I'll bow out gracefully

I don't understand you, here. Are you trying to imply that ALL men feel sexual desire toward other men? Wouldn't that make ALL of them gay, or at least bisexual? I think you're pretty mixed up, here.

** It just a temptation like smoking, a choice.

Also, what exactly do you mean about the strong overcoming the weak? You HAVE noticed that we filthy sodomites have been growing more bold, and gaining more and more acceptance over the past few decades, right? Mayhap you have also noticed that every culture throughout history has eventually come to accept us, given enough time. I'm wondering who was really supported by your "The strong overcome" statement.

** over come?, you will understand at the time of death

I won't even touch your claim(Which belongs in the dark ages, by the way) that demons caused homosexuality, I think it's time to get a more enlightened view of the world, abandon your narrow stupid little views, realize you can't just believe everything that someone tells you, it makes you look like an ass.

WHY you think that a gay man isn't a man?

** Answer me this, can you imagine God doing this?

if we were made in his image then YES

Originally posted by Asguard
if we were made in his image then YES





** So is heaven hell and hell heaven; image is one thing; moral is another, God deals with hearts never sexual......what refrence?

at the risk of letting a religiouse debate in if its all through nature AND humanity then i would have to say that its not evil its just the way things are

I think that the reason homosexuality is much more treated negatively by men than it is women has to do with the fact that the most of men who are raped are raped by other men. Think about that one... do you hear about women raping women? Maybe, but rarely... You hear about men raping women? Yes, that is probably what most people think of when they think of rape. You hear about men getting raped? Well... Okay, by who?


http://www.ncvc.org/infolink/Info38.htm
http://barque.freeyellow.com/prisonrape.html
http://www.rapecrisiscenter.com/Male%20Rape%20Info%20Sheet.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=13210

Originally posted by Lady
** What about those who have sexual desires for children and animals, and televison sets... those poor poor humans... they just want love. Why should they be discriminated against? Where are their rights?Father Pervert just wants to pray for the kiddies, in his own way,to his own god, should he be denyed and ostrichized for being himself?. ... We're is the justice... for the poor, poor humans, they just want love.....your so full of hate... simpleton.. because you don't try these things.....

Lady, if you can't tell the difference between a relationship involving two consenting adults, and a relationship involving an adult, and a child, or a non-sentient/inanimate object, then you are a lot more fucked up than I had previously thought. Seriously, that's just sick, get yourself together, you're babbling like a moron.



Originally posted by Lady
Asguard, Xev

Dave doesn't have to kick me off I'll bow out gracefully

Please do, you’re quite an annoyance!



Originally posted by Lady
** It just a temptation like smoking, a choice.

Just a temptation? What the hell are you talking about, that's not a valid answer. Again I have to ask if you mean to imply that ALL men feel the urge to have sex with other men? A choice?! A FUCKING CHOICE?! Where the hell have you been living, a choice to be gay? No one chooses to be gay, are you really that stupid? If it is a choice as you say, then I urge you to go sit in your own home, lady, while no one is around, and just for five minuets, CHOOSE to be gay, just do it. You don't have to do anything with another girl, just sit there and switch over to being attracted to members of the same sex. After it's over you can go back to your normal sexual desires, and deluded religious beliefs, and prey to god to forgive you for your wicked act of attempted understanding.

Originally posted by Lady
** over come?, you will understand at the time of death

Does anyone else ever find it convenient how many religions preach that all rewards are to come after death, and that life is to be sent to servitude? Guess it's the easiest way to make like long slaves out of people "Ohhh yeah, you'll um get yours when uhh. . . when you die. . . because, like, we know what happens after that and shit, no kidding, now go toil and donate to the church, it's a good honest life's work."

Honey if people like you go to heaven, and guys like me go to hell, then I don't have any problem kicking back with satan for all of eternity. Besides, all of my favorite rock bands are gonna' be in hell, it'll be wicked :p

Originally posted by Lady
WHY you think that a gay man isn't a man?

No, hon, it's you who thinks that, remember?

Originally posted by Lady
** Answer me this, can you imagine God doing this?

I can't imagine God having sex with a woman, either, marry was a virgin after all :p So I think there'd be about the same chance of me feeling that big godly cock up my ass as any woman in her steaming twat. I don't think that the almighty would need to go through a fairly base physical process, kinda' like can you imagine god taking a shit. . .

And up a level from that, can I imagine God loving a man? Fuck yeah I can, he's supposed to be pure love, ain't he? God loves all his children and all of that bull.

But in the end, yeah, I have to admit that I just find it hard to imagine a God. He sure hasn't found any credible way for any reasonable person to know he exists.

Lady, if you can't tell the difference between a relationship involving two consenting adults, and a relationship involving an adult, and a child, or a non-sentient/inanimate object, then you are a lot more fucked up than I had previously thought. Seriously, that's just sick, get yourself together, you're babbling like a moron

HEY dildos dont concent:p

bad girls:p

RIGHTS FOR DILDOS:p

(i apolgise for the above post but as this thread is going no where and i will probably close it anyway what the hell:D)

lady this is your LAST chance

after this i will just start deleting posts

cris thinks i should close the threads but in the intrests of the OTHER members i dont want to

if you mention satan, sin against god, deamons ect the post WILL be deleted

I'm a bit confused... Why does God have anything to do with this?
Religion seems to me to be the anti-thesis of civilised man. Crimes are commited in its name everyday all over the world. Don't give me that genuine catholic crap either, their religion has the most blood on their hands of all religions. Innocent people suffer everyday at the hands of hypocrites like yourselves, and you condone it?! You "Catholics" who apparently condemn people to hell, you are the ones that should be there!

Originally posted by Lady ** There's only so many way's I can say it, for the last time, homosexuals aren't men. Women don't usually want a bi -sexual, tri- sexual, or quad -sexual male. Just a simple man.

What the hell? And I assume you, being the shrivelled piece of trash that dares to insult humanity with your presence are the perfect being?! You know, its people like you that make life an abomination to endure.

Do everyone a favour and leave the goddamn room

Calm down, guys. Lady believes what she does for a reason. Yes, much of her posts are very emotional and very religious, but everybody believes in something. Truth be told, there are seccular reasonings which can bolster lots of Lady's claims. I'm not going to go there considering the additudes of lots of people here, but there you have it. One of these days Lady will eventually figure out that seccular reasoning is the rule here. You would be surprised how much biblical morals are reinforced by seccular knowledge, but that is neither here nor there.

Backing the truck up, I posted recently my belief that it is rape of men which causes stronger anti-gay feelings amoung males. Now, I am not going anywhere with reguards to wether or not men who live homosexual lifestyles are the perpetrators of these events, don't misunderstand me. However, I am making a few points here. One is the act of one man sodomizing another man is a homosexual act. It doesn't matter what his professed sexual orientation is. Second, the fact that rape is a power crime rather than a crime of "passion" is irrelevant. Rape is at it's best definition a sexual act, sick as it is.

Do you guys think the victem is aware of the sexual orientation of his attacker? He doesn't know if that guy violating his rear is straight or gay, all he knows is that another man is engaging in a homosexual act.

See, now I'd have to disagree with you on this, Xevious, I just don't think that homosexuals raping other men is a very large cause of dislike for the homosexual community.

First off, lets just look at the obvious, of those out there who dislike gay men, how often do you even hear such a theory bought up, that homosexuals raping other men is a big problem and needs to stop, or that we're all vile creatures for doing it? I just don't think that there are very many cases of this, to be honest, and of those that are out there, I don't think that this issue is so very widely known or thought about that it contributes very much toward hatred of homosexuals. This sort of hatred tends to come from more vague and undefined and unjustifiable sources. Given that the idea of hatred of all homosexual males because of the potential for one man to rape another is a bit unjustified, but still it's much more concrete than the average homophobe's reasoning for his dislike or hatred.

Also, I'd have to ask, if your theory is true, why is there not an enormous outcry and hatred against straight males in general, as heterosexual rape between a straight man, and a woman is a far more common problem? Following your reasoning there should be a great distrust and much anger toward straight men, and I just don't think that we see this.

Also, I'd agree that there is secular reasoning for many of the bible's lessons, however for even more of them, there is nothing but skewed logic. If we followed everything the bible taught we'd be stoning disobedient children and eating one another.
Click here for more examples of that, because I'm too lazy to find quotes myself (http://www.landoverbaptist.com)

Mystich, you totally misunderstood me.

I just don't think that homosexuals raping other men is a very large cause of dislike for the homosexual community.

I did NOT say that men who have relationships with other men are the problem, I am saying that the act of one man raping another man is a homosexual act. You are not seeing the difference. There is a difference between someone who commits a homosexual activity once during rape, and someone who lives a homosexual lifestyle.

According to the Rape Crisis Center (don't remember the URL and I'm sleepy) one in every 20 to one in ever 12 men are raped, and they go unreported FAR more than men raping women.

can i ask something

if half of male rapes are men then the other half must be women yet there is no stigma against women is there?

hmmmm, you do realise that rape is not about sex? Therefore the act of a male raping another male is seldom about sex, but is about control, power, etc.

Originally posted by Xevious
Mystich, you totally misunderstood me.



I did NOT say that men who have relationships with other men are the problem, I am saying that the act of one man raping another man is a homosexual act. You are not seeing the difference. There is a difference between someone who commits a homosexual activity once during rape, and someone who lives a homosexual lifestyle.

According to the Rape Crisis Center (don't remember the URL and I'm sleepy) one in every 20 to one in ever 12 men are raped, and they go unreported FAR more than men raping women.

Yes, you must be sleepy, because I didn't understand that statistic at all, please restate it in a way that makes sence.

Also, if I missunderstood you, I'm still missunderstanding you, aparently as nothing has really changed in my mind with this new post. If you're not trying to say that resentment toward homosexuality is due in large part to male on male rapes what are you trying to say?

Another good question that I think all of this brings up, is weather or not it's 'gay' if two straight guys have sex, hehe.

if half of male rapes are men then the other half must be women yet there is no stigma against women is there?

That is a very unwarranted assumption. A friend of mine in High School was once drugged at a party, via slipping something in his drink. He was fondled by one of the girls there for several hours against his will by stimulating his prostate, but he was too drugged to resist. He WAS able to say "no" to her. When he went to the police, the young police officer who took his report laughed and said "Are you sure you wern't asking for it?"

I'll be honest, I'm surprised that for a bunch of "enlightened" people, that you all seem to be taking the same additudes on this subject that women accuse men of taking... like it is all no big deal, or shurgging it off... or worse, that you didn't even know it happened. Well, if this had happened to you as it happened to someone I knew, and happened to ME once when I was little, I'm sure you would think differntly.

Also, I'd have to ask, if your theory is true, why is there not an enormous outcry and hatred against straight males in general, as heterosexual rape between a straight man, and a woman is a far more common problem? Following your reasoning there should be a great distrust and much anger toward straight men, and I just don't think that we see this.

Clearly you don't read a lot of the more extreme feminist media. There has been a total backlash against straight men by some women because of rape.

http://www.ncweb.com/org/rapecrisis/malerape.html
Info from the Homesafe Rape Crisis Center

http://www.nd.edu/~ucc/ucc_sexualvictimmen.html
Counceling Services - University Notre Dame. They clearly state that MOST rape against men is perpetuated by men.

http://www.witserv.com/Org/ocrcc/brochure/malerape.htm
Orange Country Rape Crisis Center, North Carolina

http://digicol.missouri.edu/dcwww?-show:client/mizzou/folio/j1995/q4/m11/t06/s008/003_001_001.dcs
This article in particular addresses how people treat male rape. One victem of male rape states that he was homophobic for a long time as a result of his experience.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/293884.stm
BBC News - "Male Rape must be tackled"

http://www.rainn.org/newsarchive/december98/stat.html
Publication from the Rape Chrisis Center. Interesting info... "One of every four rape victims is male. This figure is substantially higher than other government estimates of about one in 10."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/beat12.shtml
Seattle PI - "Portland Man Raped, Beaten Downtown"

http://www.uiowa.edu/~rvap/men.html
Rape Victem Advocacy Program

On a last note, I found lots of this looking for "Men Raped" in Google. In addition to these articles, I found a large amount of porn sites which promote sodomizing children, and men raping men fantasies... which is scarry, considering I found more of those than I found websites and articles about how men are raped.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gaiasknight
[B]I'm a bit confused... Why does God have anything to do with this?
Religion seems to me to be the anti-thesis of civilised man. Crimes are commited in its name everyday all over the world. Don't give me that genuine catholic crap either, their religion has the most blood on their hands of all religions. Innocent people suffer everyday at the hands of hypocrites like yourselves, and you condone it?! You "Catholics" who apparently condemn people to hell, you are the ones that should be there!



** First, Nobody can condem anybody to hell, God's doing alone, second, don't ever call me catholic again.



What the hell? And I assume you, being the shrivelled piece of trash that dares to insult humanity with your presence are the perfect being?! You know, its people like you that make life an abomination to endure.

** If I'm a piece of trash because I desire a God fearing strong man than so be it.

lady
by strong do you mean sexually strong? if you had to make a choice b/w width or length, what will you pick? do you think god fearing men make better lovers? have you ever made a gay man straight?

please take the time and answer!
i eagerly await an response!

thanks
sincerely
spook

I don't know about the other guys but i wouldn't like to see or feel a log coming in and out of my ass.

One way traffic for me, only logs go out!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by spookz
[B]lady
by strong do you mean sexually strong?


** That's a plus:D attraction, chemicals, and character.

if you had to make a choice b/w width or length, what will you pick?

** Electrifying Kiss

do you think god fearing men make better lovers?

** Yes, the Lord knows the desire of my heart


have you ever made a gay man straight?

** He was neva gay to begin with

Originally posted by Lady

** If I'm a piece of trash because I desire a God fearing strong man than so be it.

I know several strong god fearing men, maybe I could hook you up. They're all gay, though. . .

Xevious


i belive you missunderstood me

i KNOW what women can do to rape a guy, i herd an AWFUL reference to a pencil a women used on a guy who wouldnt sleep with her

look up adams case of "theft of sperm" if you want my atitude

my point was how can it be used as an exuse to discriminate against gay men that they rape other men if HALF of male rapes are women???

Look at the statistics... about 50% of all men raped are raped by men. In turn, roughly 50% of all men are homophobic. I'm saying that the statistic of the population intolerance for homosexualism is proportional by percentile to the number of rapes of men carried out by men.

It adds up, at least to me. Sure, not 50% of ALLl men are raped by men, but if the statistic is as high as the Rape Crisis Center believes, that 1 in 4 men are raped? That would mean one in every 8 men are raped by another man. That is a rather BIG statistic, and men despite all there "privacy" do confide in friends like girls do.

I am going to run a poll on another thread to experiment with this... I want to see how many people KNOW a man who has been raped by either a woman or a man. We can confirm or deny my hypothesis with an experiment.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16912

Here is my poll on male rape. Please participate...

Originally posted by Mystech
I know several strong god fearing men, maybe I could hook you up. They're all gay, though. . .


** Keep them for yourself

Originally posted by Xev
Power. It seems weirder to have one guy "submit" to another guy than it does for a girl to submit to another girl. Xev, why is it that so frequently in this sort of topics, you are connecting them with submission. Did the majority of your sexual experiences were sensed as woman’s submission ? :cool:

keep your nose out of our sex life!

Originally posted by spookz
keep your nose out of our sex life!
What sex life? who asked you? What ever is in your fantasy, there is a Fantasy forum. This one is for Ethics, Morality, & Justice!

i am deeply saddened by the tone of your voice

Originally posted by spookz
i am deeply saddened by the tone of your voice Don’t feel so bad about it, after all, my original message was a simple curiosity questions to Xev, now thanks to you, she isn't gona answer it. If that makes you feel any better.
...I recall you once talking about maintaining threads interesting?

your post has rendered me speechless

I'm female, ok? I'm a straight female.
And it's just wrong that men want more than one woman. I would never want more than one man. When ever I have one boyfriend he is enough for me and he is more important to me than any other man in my life. It's really disappointing if men aren't the same way.
And I think lesbians are ok, it's what makes them happy and as long as I don't have to see anything beyond the kissing I won't get grossed out. It just isn't anything I'd want to do myself.

Originally posted by Xevious
Look at the statistics... about 50% of all men raped are raped by men. In turn, roughly 50% of all men are homophobic. I'm saying that the statistic of the population intolerance for homosexualism is proportional by percentile to the number of rapes of men carried out by men.

It adds up, at least to me. Sure, not 50% of ALLl men are raped by men, but if the statistic is as high as the Rape Crisis Center believes, that 1 in 4 men are raped? That would mean one in every 8 men are raped by another man. That is a rather BIG statistic, and men despite all there "privacy" do confide in friends like girls do.

I am going to run a poll on another thread to experiment with this... I want to see how many people KNOW a man who has been raped by either a woman or a man. We can confirm or deny my hypothesis with an experiment.

I hate to break it to you, but if 50% of men who are raped are raped by other men, and 50% of the male population is homophobic, but not 50% of men are raped, then your statistics just don't add up! Also I don't have any idea where you're getting these persentages, they all seem a little too nice and rounded off to really be thought accurate, if you ask me.

I think your theory is absurd, if there were any real validity to it then the issue of male rape would come up all the time whenever homophobes decide to go on a rant, but it doesn't! This isn't what people hate or are afraid of, you're fooling yourself.

Maybe because the sexual act (sodomy) of male homosexuality is seen as vile and heavily perverse among straight people, and lesbisnism is not taken seriously?

Love

Jan Ardena.

"the sexual act (sodomy) of male homosexuality is seen as vile and heavily perverse among straight people"

It is?
Wow, people are even more prude than I imagined.

While the idea of myself being involved in sodomy is rather unnerving to me, I would hardly call it vile or perverse.

Originally posted by Jan Ardena
Maybe because the sexual act (sodomy) of male homosexuality is seen as vile and heavily perverse among straight people, and lesbisnism is not taken seriously?

Love

Jan Ardena.

Perverse and vile? Go surfing for some porn right now and see how many MILLIONS of heterosexual sites you find where the foucs is on girls taking it up the ass. Sodomy is enjoyed by homosexual and heterosexual alike, I'm afraid.

As for saying that lesbians are a joke. . . I just really don't know where you're coming from with that. Seems like a prett petty and poorly thought out attack, if you ask me.

Originally posted by Mystech
Perverse and vile? Go surfing for some porn right now and see how many MILLIONS of heterosexual sites you find where the foucs is on girls taking it up the ass. Sodomy is enjoyed by homosexual and heterosexual alike, I'm afraid.

As for saying that lesbians are a joke. . . I just really don't know where you're coming from with that. Seems like a prett petty and poorly thought out attack, if you ask me.

I totally understand where you are coming from, however, it is one of many possible reasons why homosexuality is considered taboo among (straight) men. Hetrosexual sodomy doesn't have the same impact because it is a woman.

I don't think lesbienism is taken seriously because men in general have little, if any, objection to seeing two women enjoying each other, plus women don't have a problem with showing affection to each other, sexual or non-sexual.

Please don't take this as an attack, it is just observation.

Love

Jan Ardena.

perhaps if home colonic kits were more prevalent, the taboo would kinda fade away??? how about longer lasting room deodorizers?

thoughts? opinions?
thanks

lesbianism isn't taken seriously because some people seem to think there are like various levels. you know,"real" lesbians who aren't at all into men, and people who just like to "experiment". an all girls college near me had a phenomenon called "four year lesbians". as in girls would be gay while in college, and later on, grow out of it and find a guy.

space
thanks. thats hot!

Lesbians Until Graduation, or LUGs (http://www.panicmag.com/articles/12.shtml)