amazingly hot bombshell date

talked for hours

pay for dinner

get to her place

drink, makeout

move towards the bed only to hear her say "no, im not ready yet"

BAH!

But something really odd happened after she said that... I started respecting her more instead of thinking of her as a one time date lay, I mean she was really chill and told me to take it slow, and instead of getting pissed or annoyed, I thought, wow, she actually has self respect... I kinda like her.

Still, I was left with a severe case of blue balls, but its nothing a porno can't treat.

Anyways, she told me she likes to take it slow, and call her next week sometime...

Men have no idea how to romance women anymore, do they? :(

amazingly hot bombshell date

talked for hours

pay for dinner

get to her place

drink, makeout

move towards the bed only to hear her say "no, im not ready yet"

BAH!

But something really odd happened after she said that... I started respecting her more instead of thinking of her as a one time date lay, I mean she was really chill and told me to take it slow, and instead of getting pissed or annoyed, I thought, wow, she actually has self respect... I kinda like her.

Still, I was left with a severe case of blue balls, but its nothing a porno can't treat.

Anyways, she told me she likes to take it slow, and call her next week sometime...

If all you are wanting is sex then just rent a prostitute for an hour or two.

If you really like someone you will honor their wishes and do as they ask without asking why.

Relationships develop through time not over a dinner and drinks. :itold:

depending on the kind of girl she is its more likely to be a good thing than bad. i wouldn't be worried.

Was this a first date?
If this is a first date, can you tell me why you are surprised that she said she wasn't ready yet? It says volumes about the girls you've went out on dates with in the past if that's the case.

You expect sex on a first date?

Men have no idea how to romance women anymore, do they?

That's part of the problem! We should have kept it like it was in the days of the cave man ....knock her in the head with club, drag her into the cave, fuck her brains out, then kick her ass out of the cave! The natural way of things ....and stupid fuckin' liberals fucked it all up for the rest of us!

Baron Max

That's part of the problem! We should have kept it like it was in the days of the cave man ....knock her in the head with club, drag her into the cave, fuck her brains out, then kick her ass out of the cave! The natural way of things ....and stupid fuckin' liberals fucked it all up for the rest of us!

Baron Max

u forgot the bit where she cooks for you

u forgot the bit where she cooks for you

She has to wash the dishes first. Who knows what kind of bacteria and fungal spores are lurking on those pots and pans?

I am assuming that the OP doesn't want this to be a long term thing.

That or maybe my assumptions are wrong. Some girls that I meet I would rather get it over with... but then there are some that you wouldn't mind waiting for, like taking it slow and enjoying the development of an actual mutual relationship.

But yeah, if its one of the former types, you should get it over with in 3 dates, otherwise she'll get attached.

I am assuming that the OP doesn't want this to be a long term thing.

That or maybe my assumptions are wrong. Some girls that I meet I would rather get it over with... but then there are some that you wouldn't mind waiting for, like taking it slow and enjoying the development of an actual mutual relationship.

But yeah, if its one of the former types, you should get it over with in 3 dates, otherwise she'll get attached.
Then the OP needs to stop approaching this like a jackass and let his intentions be known. If he is out to dupe a woman into sex, I have no further respect for him, no sympathy for him and nothing else to say to him.

Then the OP needs to stop approaching this like a jackass and let his intentions be known. If he is out to dupe a woman into sex, I have no further respect for him, no sympathy for him and nothing else to say to him.

lol. Yeah, I don't think I have the heart to use a girl that way. I guess I've grown out of that phase in my life, and I'd rather have a good conversation or get to know a girl better through a date rather than getting in bed with her. You learn a lot more about people when you aren't trying to get them to do something for you, and the emotional and mental benefits are even more rewarding.

Seems like you have a second date

My advise would be to go back and give her either flowers or roofies

It's your choise

lol. She led me on. Offered me drinks at her place, and then said no in the heat of it.

Its different if I asked for it right away, I was not planning on it. Me being a 22 year old guy, I aint saying no to it if its offered on a first date. Sorry, I like having fun.


Men have no idea how to romance women anymore, do they? :(

how do you like to be romanced SAM?

Men have no idea how to romance women anymore, do they? :(

Let her see my Cornflake collection?

how do you like to be romanced SAM?

SAM gets into a passionate mood when the date starts vilifying the USA and blaming Americans for every evil in the world.

Baron Max

lol. She led me on. Offered me drinks at her place, and then said no in the heat of it.
Ahhhhh...then this changes things up a bit. I'd back off a bit and get some reaction distance and keep an eye on how she acts over the next few days.


Its different if I asked for it right away, I was not planning on it. Me being a 22 year old guy, I aint saying no to it if its offered on a first date. Sorry, I like having fun.
I'm 36 and even I aint sayin no to it if it's offered to me on a first date.
But if a girl does sleep with you on a first date, while I don't think that automatically labels her as a slut, you can almost guarantee that she does have some sort of mental issue going on up there, so be wary of dating any girl that does sleep with you on the first date (not saying don't date her, but just be watchful of her behavior).

Ahhhhh...then this changes things up a bit. I'd back off a bit and get some reaction distance and keep an eye on how she acts over the next few days.


I'm 36 and even I aint sayin no to it if it's offered to me on a first date.
But if a girl does sleep with you on a first date, while I don't think that automatically labels her as a slut, you can almost guarantee that she does have some sort of mental issue going on up there, so be wary of dating any girl that does sleep with you on the first date (not saying don't date her, but just be watchful of her behavior).

To be honest with you I tend to stay away from the ones that put out to easily, not because I think its wrong to have sex with someone you just met, just because a girl who sleeps with a lot of men has a much higher chance of getting and STD...

Its just hard to say no when you don't expect it...

I don't think its a mental issue for a girl to sleep on her first date, I just think some women think of sex as something very personal, while others just want to have as much of it as possible.

The only girls I have known that were willing to put out on the first date had either mental issues, were promiscuous, or just got out of a long term relationship and maybe looking for a rebound or vulnerable.

Sometimes a date and a meal is just that: an enjoyable evening out in good company (assuming that you are good company, of course :p)

Sometimes a date and a meal is just that: an enjoyable evening out in good company (assuming that you are good company, of course :p)

LOL... or in the OPs case, a date is just that... and a case of blue balls and having the girl say "I think we're going too fast". :D

Sometimes a date and a meal is just that: an enjoyable evening out in good company (assuming that you are good company, of course :p)

LOL... or in the OPs case, a date is just that... and a case of blue balls and having the girl say "I think we're going too fast". :D

Did you bring a rubber? Maybe thats her way of saying "I don't want your STDs" :shrug:

That's what comes of having expectations... :)

Did you bring a rubber?
Never carry the things.

The only girls I have known that were willing to put out on the first date had either mental issues, were promiscuous, or just got out of a long term relationship and maybe looking for a rebound or vulnerable.
Exactly. I just don't understand how some of these seemingly retarded men go out and dupe some of these women with mental issues. I guess they never got that 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned' memo.
I always laugh when a guy does that to a girl then she finds some way to get him back (like scratch up/key the hell out of his nice car, etc.).

"I hope that pussy was worth you getting <insert retaliatory stunt she pulled here> done to you in response of your 'pump and dump' crap."

Men have no idea how to romance women anymore, do they? :(

What?
I thought you were all sluts just like men.

What?
I thought you were all sluts just like men.

I'm starting to want my woman back :bawl:

amazingly hot bombshell date

talked for hours

pay for dinner

get to her place

drink, makeout

move towards the bed only to hear her say "no, im not ready yet"

BAH!

But something really odd happened after she said that... I started respecting her more instead of thinking of her as a one time date lay, I mean she was really chill and told me to take it slow, and instead of getting pissed or annoyed, I thought, wow, she actually has self respect... I kinda like her.

Still, I was left with a severe case of blue balls, but its nothing a porno can't treat.

Anyways, she told me she likes to take it slow, and call her next week sometime...
dont you get it,shes a dyke!
or a gold digger looking for a meal..
also she may be worried that once you fuck her you will forget her..some guys are like that.
still,she could have at least give you hand job,no harm done :D

dont you get it,shes a dyke!
or a gold digger looking for a meal..
also she may be worried that once you fuck her you will forget her..some guys are like that.
still,she could have at least give you hand job,no harm done :D

Sounds like she likes him.:(

Expecting a woman to go to bed on the first date? :bugeye:

I have been in those situations lots of times and in every one of those situations I thought to myself ....is this all this guy wants? How many girls does this guy sleep with? Is he a player?

I am not impressed when a guy expects to sleep with you on the first, second or even third date. If you really like eachother what is the big hurry?

I have also had feedback from guys that they repect and actually find you someone that they actually would date long term instead of some chick that jumps right into bed with them. Men are funny, they like trashy easy women but not for the long term. In reality they don't want a girl that sleeps around or sleeps with a guy she just met. When it comes to settling down in a long term relationship they want the " Good Girl".

Oh yeah and I forgot to add........ Why is it that if you don't sleep with the guy you are a cock tease? I have been called that for doing absolutely nothing. :shrug: I never understood that one.

Oh yeah and I forgot to add........ Why is it that if you don't sleep with the guy you are a cock tease? I have been called that for doing absolutely nothing. :shrug: I never understood that one.

i think the guys hope calling you a cock tease will persuade you to do the no pants dance. the idea is slut trumps cock tease. i'd question whether you did absolutely nothing, that's not to say you deserved to be called a cock tease, and there are guys who will just throw abuse out there for the hell of it.

i think the guys hope calling you a cock tease will persuade you to do the no pants dance. the idea is slut trumps cock tease. i'd question whether you did absolutely nothing, that's not to say you deserved to be called a cock tease, and there are guys who will just throw abuse out there for the hell of it.

Yes indeed, some dudes are major jerks, I wouldn't say that I am not, but if someone gets to know me, I am not terribly bad a person. For me, it takes time understanding etc......

If you really like eachother what is the big hurry?

You can like someone and still want to sleep with them.

I would agree that many mens intentions are just to get laid, even if you go on 10 dates with them without them making a move, you never know. Some guys make the move the first time, others decide to wait.




I have also had feedback from guys that they repect and actually find you someone that they actually would date long term instead of some chick that jumps right into bed with them. Men are funny, they like trashy easy women but not for the long term. In reality they don't want a girl that sleeps around or sleeps with a guy she just met. When it comes to settling down in a long term relationship they want the " Good Girl".

Its hard to trust a girl who sleeps on the first date, to most men she is just not "girlfriend material". Its just like how most men would not want to date an ex prostitute, or a stripper.



Oh yeah and I forgot to add........ Why is it that if you don't sleep with the guy you are a cock tease? I have been called that for doing absolutely nothing. :shrug: I never understood that one.

They are just trying to make you fall for it and no longer be a "tease", if you know what I mean. I think its a really cheap card to pull off that really only would only work on a really stupid person.

amazingly hot bombshell date

talked for hours

pay for dinner

get to her place

drink, makeout

move towards the bed only to hear her say "no, im not ready yet"

BAH!

But something really odd happened after she said that... I started respecting her more instead of thinking of her as a one time date lay, I mean she was really chill and told me to take it slow, and instead of getting pissed or annoyed, I thought, wow, she actually has self respect... I kinda like her.

Still, I was left with a severe case of blue balls, but its nothing a porno can't treat.

Anyways, she told me she likes to take it slow, and call her next week sometime...

Ummm...hello? Are you missing the big picture here, love? She obviously WANTS you to respect her which she gained by holding out on you. You even said so yourself. If you had slept with her right then you probably would have walked away thinking to yourself that it was nice to get your nuts off, but why bother calling again? Like idiots always say (I'm not calling you an idiot by the way because I kind of like you), "Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?" :rolleyes:

Since the dawn of fucking time any woman who puts out on the first "date" is a whore. Blame stereotypes. Maybe if people realized that women have just as many sexual needs as men and respected it then women wouldn't have to worry about holding out and men wouldn't bitch about their blue-balls. Since the day we are born, men and women are conditioned to these idiotic behaviors. Men are taught to pursue and always want sex (even if they don't want it, it's seen as less manly to not try for sex) and women are taught to hold out, say no, and some how control men's "uncontrollable" manly urges. It's a bunch of BS, if you ask me.

Truth be told, she probably likes you and wants you to call her again and she feels that by holding out she will gain the respect she wants from you. Sad for her and you both, but true. Take it as a good sign. It sounds like she she wants another date and that she wants you to come back around, hoping for more. Third time's a charm, by the way ;)

Good luck!

(Ignore the ranting part of this post. It's not directed at you personally. I've had a very bad week)

haha, thanks jessie.

but ya, you are right. we both had a really good time during the date, and even after she said she wasn't ready, there was not one bit of awkwardness. we just talked for a bit and I went home.

.She cared about you and didn't wanna appear trashy.
.Maybe she was on her period and did not wanna say it.

Sounds to me like it's one of these. I'm sure she cared about you and didn't want to appear trashy. If she was on her period she would be in the ups and downs, you know, women :rolleyes:

.She cared about you and didn't wanna appear trashy.
.Maybe she was on her period and did not wanna say it.

Sounds to me like it's one of these. I'm sure she cared about you and didn't want to appear trashy. If she was on her period she would be in the ups and downs, you know, women :rolleyes:

lol ya but the period thing is hard to tell lol.

I know some girls act very bitchy, others just act normal, while this girl I dated a while back would just turn extremely nice during her period... A part of me also feels like she would not have led me on in the first place if the period was truly the case, I just put it in the poll anyways.
I think she just realized and changed her mind.

haha, thanks jessie.

but ya, you are right. we both had a really good time during the date, and even after she said she wasn't ready, there was not one bit of awkwardness. we just talked for a bit and I went home.

See! She probably just wasn't ready to have sex which should be perfectly acceptable. Many women (myself included) are cautious about who we share our bodies with. Not only because of the respect issue, but also because it is the smart thing to do (health wise and emotionally wise). I've been with my man for 7 years and I didn't sleep with him for three whole months when we first started dating. Why, you may ask? Because I was instantly in love with him and wanted him to know that he was special and that I wanted him to be with me until the day I died. And the fact that he patiently waited like the perfect gentleman for three whole months (never bitching once...never rushing or pushing)...well...it spoke volumes to the love and caring we had for each other and still do ;)

lol ya but the period thing is hard to tell lol.

I know some girls act very bitchy, others just act normal, while this girl I dated a while back would just turn extremely nice during her period... A part of me also feels like she would not have led me on in the first place if the period was truly the case, I just put it in the poll anyways.
I think she just realized and changed her mind.

Agreed. Upon realizing that she has issues with her cycle she undoubtedly will attempt to redeem herself.

See! She probably just wasn't ready to have sex which should be perfectly acceptable. Many women (myself included) are cautious about who we share our bodies with. Not only because of the respect issue, but also because it is the smart thing to do (health wise and emotionally wise). I've been with my man for 7 years and I didn't sleep with him for three whole months when we first started dating. Why, you may ask? Because I was instantly in love with him and wanted him to know that he was special and that I wanted him to be with me until the day I died. And the fact that he patiently waited like the perfect gentleman for three whole months (never bitching once...never rushing or pushing)...well...it spoke volumes to the love and caring we had for each other and still do ;)

Well its real good you find someone to care about. Most people never have this for a lifetime. Hopefully it'll happen to most of us.

As for me, well, for now I just enjoy being single. I can't ever really settle, I find too many people too interesting.

I really like women, I have been in love etc... but even then there never has been a time where I wanted to be with that person forever.

I guess I'm just a... "jerk". :o

Agreed. Upon realizing that she has issues with her cycle she undoubtedly will attempt to redeem herself.

lol. Maybe. :rolleyes:

Well its real good you find someone to care about. Most people never have this for a lifetime. Hopefully it'll happen to most of us.

As for me, well, for now I just enjoy being single. I can't ever really settle, I find too many people too interesting.

I really like women, I have been in love etc... but even then there never has been a time where I wanted to be with that person forever.

I guess I'm just a... "jerk". :o

No, no, no. You are not a "jerk". You just haven't found that one person who really grabs your heart and yanks it out of your chest (Painful yet so blissfully good ;)). Maybe you never will and that's not always a bad thing. Some people find happiness in just being with a variety of others who make them happy and don't find the need to settle with just one person. Monogamy is not for everyone and that doesn't make you a "bad" person. My BF and I have been together for 7 years (since we were 17), but we have yet to be married even though all our friends have either done the marriage thing, moved into together, or popped out a few kids. We just know that what we have is what we want and we take it day by day. Our lives demand it be that way and we make it work.

Truth be told, love isn't easy. We've had our ups and downs, our knock-down drag-out fights, our rocky roads, but in the end he's the other half of my heart and soul and that's all that matters. It's not all fucking flowers and pink hearts. In fact, it's the fight that makes it worth it. We fight to love each other through thick and thin, through good and bad, through hell and fire and brimstone etc. But we don't need a ring or a marriage certificate or a stupid fancy wedding to know all that.

The point is...be who you are. Enjoy being who you are. If you like being single, stay that way. If you find that one person who is able to hold your heart in their hands and you wish it to be that way...GO for it. Don't worry about silly games, or stereotypes, or "rules" placed on us by society.

Do what makes you happy. And hey, you never know, maybe the girl who gave you blue balls is the one who you will end up willing to die for, lol ;)

You just never know.

lol. ive had my fair share of troubled relationships.... not for seven years though :rolleyes:

I do think not marrying too early is the healthy way to go, I kinda tend to notice that many people my age, even guys feel like tying the knot is the only means of a secure relationship. its good you too are keeping it open, giving it more time.

As for me, well, I guess I'll never know. For now I always have an open mind with a slight touch of apathy towards any girl I date, just because I've noticed that dwelling and worrying over someone usually backfires.

lol ya but the period thing is hard to tell lol.


its not that hard, you just gotta pull a few strings.

Gah..... lots of things wrong with the OP's story - first is the "quid-pro-quo" aspect of the description. There's also the fact that this is treated as something "all women do" as opposed to a situation in an individual date with an individual person. This post makes the assumption that men always make the first move, men never take it slow, and women are never fast. It also gives me the impression that a certain set of actions are supposed to trigger a certain reaction in a woman, and if they don't comply, the male is unjustly stymied.
I don't think there is a bigger picture here that needs analysis.

lol. ive had my fair share of troubled relationships.... not for seven years though :rolleyes:

When you were 15 years old? Please, that wasn't an adult relationship, and while you may have felt teenage angst etc, it hardly counts.

When you were 15 years old? Please, that wasn't an adult relationship, and while you may have felt teenage angst etc, it hardly counts.

Fair enough. I am not going to argue that going through a divorce or breaking up with someone after dating them for 5+ years is something I have experienced.

But I've been around, and gotten hurt, and understood the general norm on how relationships work.

But I've been around, and gotten hurt, and understood the general norm on how relationships work.

You are 22 and you think you have 'been around'. PRICELESS!

LOL...so true, so true.

It also gives me the impression that a certain set of actions are supposed to trigger a certain reaction in a woman, and if they don't comply, the male is unjustly stymied.
You should have that impression. There are countless guys out there who think like that. Meaning that if he puts for the effort into taking her out, etc. and she doesn't respond the way he wants (i.e. putting out), he give her the brush off. But I think women are way more versed in brushing people off than the other way around.

Women get more actual practice (necessarily) than guys at brushing off.
In general.

lMe being a 22 year old guy, I aint saying no to it if its offered on a first date.


22? Oh for heavens sakes, you're just an overgrown kid


how do you like to be romanced SAM?

First you have to age by 20 years...:bugeye:

22? Oh for heavens sakes, you're just an overgrown kid


:rolleyes:



First you have to age by 20 years...:bugeye:

I didn't ask you this question personally, just in general. Since you say men cannot properly romance women anymore, I want to know, how do you think women should be romanced?

http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2210534&postcount=15

You are 22 and you think you have 'been around'. PRICELESS!

So just based off my age you judge my entire judgement of women and relationships in general. How very wise of you, care to elaborate?

Its not because you might have gone through more life experiences that you might suddenly feel like you are more correct than me.

Someone can go through a life of shitty relationships and another can go through a life of constant appraisal and love. Very different lives, both have "been around", very different perspectives and results.

Its all relative.

I didn't ask you this question personally, just in general. Since you say men cannot properly romance women anymore, I want to know, how do you think women should be romanced?

Depends on the man, its a statement of who the man is. Not what the woman wants. The way a man treats a woman is the only criteria that a woman has for gauging a man's feelings. Its his presentation, so to speak.

Depends on the man, its a statement of who the man is. Not what the woman wants. The way a man treats a woman is the only criteria that a woman has for gauging a man's feelings. Its his presentation, so to speak.

I guess I kinda get what you mean, its just a little vague.

Are you essentially saying treat the woman with respect and present yourself well?

I'm saying maybe she wanted to see what you would do and how you'd react to her wishes.

This thread is hard for me to understand as the OP is further along than I ever will be =P

This thread is hard for me to understand as the OP is further along than I ever will be =P

You're not ugly, you're smart and you have a great voice [at least, I like it]

Whats holding you back? Why do you always go after women who are already tied to someone else? Do you think you deliberately sabotage your chances for any reason?

You should have that impression. There are countless guys out there who think like that. Meaning that if he puts for the effort into taking her out, etc. and she doesn't respond the way he wants (i.e. putting out), he give her the brush off. But I think women are way more versed in brushing people off than the other way around.

So a date is a contract? Bologna. I'd turn down people left and right if that was the case.......and I'd eventually get really good at it.

Either that, or I'd get my own lawyer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kckEEQKXaCU&feature=related).....

This thread is hard for me to understand as the OP is further along than I ever will be =P

You can find the right girl tomorrow, be happy for the rest of of your life and call it a day in the dating department.

While I look around trying a relationship after the other only to always realize I can't ever stick to one girl.

In the end, who's ahead?

I have seen completely unattractive retards who are nothing but pests to their girlfriends who treat them like complete shit and somehow get laid 5 times a week.

Anyone can do it, if you just get the confidence to talk to them, girls will like you for reasons that you won't even notice.

I'm saying maybe she wanted to see what you would do and how you'd react to her wishes.

I'll be more careful next time, SAM. Promise. :cool:

Men have no idea how to romance women anymore, do they? :(


some men do, but i think they are a dying breed

So just based off my age you judge my entire judgement of women and relationships in general. How very wise of you, care to elaborate?

Not at all. Your OP shows how naive and inexperienced you are. At 22, you should know better; you are naive for a 22 year old. That contradicts 'having been around'.

Could she have just not wanted sex?

In my experience, girls don't care about sex on the first date - it just depends on the mood (in the UK, at least - where, ironically, we have an outwardly prudish culture but are actually the most promiscuous people on the planet!)

some men do, but i think they are a dying breed

Yeah, tis a shame, but I'm pretty sure you've got the right idea. Genuine gentleman are on a sharp decline, and pickings be slim for the ladies...

You are 22 and you think you have 'been around'. PRICELESS!

So one day you say all 22 year old's are naive.


Not at all. Your OP shows how naive and inexperienced you are. At 22, you should know better; you are naive for a 22 year old. That contradicts 'having been around'.

Then you say I am naive for a 22 year old.

Hey, at least I'm not going senile. ;)

After she offers me drinks at her place at midnight, and she leads me to her bed, and just before were about to get it on she says "I'm not ready".

I am supposed to automatically comprehend why she would do that?

Either way, what is it to "be around"?

Getting married for 10 years? Going through a bunch of relationships? Being over 22?

Instead of sounding like a know it all who's sole argument in every post is "you are 22", how about you give me a logical argument.

Could she have just not wanted sex?

In my experience, girls don't care about sex on the first date - it just depends on the mood (in the UK, at least - where, ironically, we have an outwardly prudish culture but are actually the most promiscuous people on the planet!)

lol, I didn't people in the UK had an outwardly prudish culture. I always thought most of Europe was actually pretty open about sex in general.

So one day you say all 22 year old's are naive.

No, I'll leave the blanket statements to you.


Then you say I am naive for a 22 year old.

Your OP spelled that out quite plainly. You expect sex on the first date. Real life doesn't play out like a porno, people don't just meet and fuck.


After she offers me drinks at her place at midnight,

Why is the fact it's midnight mentioned? Do you turn into a pumpkin, or is it just past your bedtime?


and she leads me to her bed, and just before were about to get it on she says "I'm not ready".

I don't know, I wasn't there. Does she have a roomie, and not want to be making out when said roomie arrives home? How 'just before' were you, undressed? Pants around your ankles? See, it's your assumption you were going to 'get it on', but you clearly read the situation wrong! Maybe you lunged for her knickers and revulsed her, maybe she was just kissing you for a 'date a dork' competition?


Instead of sounding like a know it all who's sole argument in every post is "you are 22", how about you give me a logical argument.

Not very bright are you? You stated your age as 22, and then made a statement about a previous relationship seven years previously, putting you at 15 at the time. Now, if you don't recognise the difference between yourself at 15, and at 22, why should anyone? Seems you haven't learned anything or grown up in those intervening years, doesn't it?

Your OP spelled that out quite plainly. You expect sex on the first date. Real life doesn't play out like a porno, people don't just meet and fuck.

I don't know, I wasn't there. Does she have a roomie, and not want to be making out when said roomie arrives home? How 'just before' were you, undressed? Pants around your ankles? See, it's your assumption you were going to 'get it on', but you clearly read the situation wrong! Maybe you lunged for her knickers and revulsed her, maybe she was just kissing you for a 'date a dork' competition?

Why is the fact it's midnight mentioned? Do you turn into a pumpkin, or is it just past your bedtime?


french dude invited into an apartment (and then bedroom) for late night drinks? drop some strange funky beat and it sounds like a porno to me. albeit a kinda boring one. i'll stick with #person/s#object/s.

and its not possible she's a bit weird? maybe she was seeing whether he was frigid and/or interested, but wasn't giving it away on the first night.

i think inviting a person to your room late at night has certain connotations.

That's part of the problem! We should have kept it like it was in the days of the cave man ....knock her in the head with club, drag her into the cave, fuck her brains out, then kick her ass out of the cave! The natural way of things ....and stupid fuckin' liberals fucked it all up for the rest of us!

Baron Max


Real Christian too!

i think inviting a person to your room late at night has certain connotations.

I've no idea, being a gentleman I'd often offer to walk girls home, in fact, I once turned down a girl who propositioned me in a nightclub, because I'd already promised to walk a female friend home.

But I guess there's the difference between Chris and I; I am a gentleman.

Women get more actual practice (necessarily) than guys at brushing off.
In general.

True, but it doesn't make it anymore acceptable/mature IMHO.
I've given very few women the flaky brush off in my life, and that's only because they did something to royally piss me off or otherwise deserve it.
Most of the time I'm pretty straightforward in why I am discontinuing communication.
I remember when I had a Match.com profile. I had couple of women email me. The trouble is, the were both obese and both had children. Even though I hinted in my profile that I was not ready to have children yet and that I prefer athletic body types, I politely responded with something like, "I'm sorry. I'm not looking to date a single mother, or a fuller figured woman. I do wish you the best in your search."
One responded with, "Thank you. I appreciate your honesty and getting back with me." The other, "Thank you for letting me know. I wish there were more of you like that out there."

I truly believe that the flakiness and overwillingness to brush guys off is one of the reasons women don't get as much respect as they want. Think about it Oli. You even mention that women have more practice at it. You know they do it. I know they do it. And I'm pretty sure we agree that there aren't many (if any) guys out there who enjoy being around a woman that is flaky like that, or enjoy being stood up/brushed off. Not saying all women do it, but enough women do do it to make the rest of you good ladies (i.e. Bells, Shorty, Lieb, VI, etc.) look bad. Kinda like how all the womanizing jackasses make guys like me look bad.

Realistic guess: She did not want to have sex yet. She doesn't owe you a reason why, and it doesn't say she's more or less respectable. However, if you just respect her more for not having sex with you on the first date, I have a lot less respect for you.

When I don't have sex on the first date and I say, "Call me," I generally just need time to feel the person out. I don't have sex on the first date because I don't know the person well enough to feel comfortable.

Realistic guess: She did not want to have sex yet. She doesn't owe you a reason why, and it doesn't say she's more or less respectable. However, if you just respect her more for not having sex with you on the first date, I have a lot less respect for you.

When I don't have sex on the first date and I say, "Call me," I generally just need time to feel the person out. I don't have sex on the first date because I don't know the person well enough to feel comfortable.
Do you also make it a habit of inviting guys over to your place at the end of a first date for drinks, then fairly heavily make out with him; most all guys do not anticipate her out of the blue saying 'I'm not ready yet.' Sorry tak, but when a woman leads the guy on like that, and yes it is leading him on (especailly on a first date), then just says, I'm not ready, that leads me to believe she's either playing mind games with him or is one of those wishy-washy, can't make up her mind, overly analytical (to the point it is self-destructing) women. And if she is, she really isn't worth any guy's time.
But alas, there will always be a guy out there who is just as horny as she is mind-game playing, moody, self-centered, crazy, ugly, etc.

Do you also make it a habit of inviting guys over to your place at the end of a first date for drinks, then fairly heavily make out with him; most all guys do not anticipate her out of the blue saying 'I'm not ready yet.' Sorry tak, but when a woman leads the guy on like that, and yes it is leading him on (especailly on a first date), then just says, I'm not ready, that leads me to believe she's either playing mind games with him or is one of those wishy-washy, can't make up her mind, overly analytical (to the point it is self-destructing) women. And if she is, she really isn't worth any guy's time.
But alas, there will always be a guy out there who is just as horny as she is mind-game playing, moody, self-centered, crazy, ugly, etc.

I don't date. I'm down to asking health care assistants if they'll weigh me in the nude. ;)

It sounds like she panicked. Maybe she was raped three weeks ago and she's an all right chick otherwise. Maybe she just broke up and had a last minute pang of guilt.

In college I had a guy HAND ME A CONDOM and then last second go, "You know, I just broke up, and I can't." And I was pissed at the time, but you know what, sometimes people go through things. And frankly, if I saw the guy today, I'd still want him because he was cute and funny and sexy. Just because people have cracks doesn't mean they're broken.

I think that she was playing mind games. I wouldn't call her; make her call you and show disinterest for a while.

I don't date. I'm down to asking health care assistants if they'll weigh me in the nude. ;)
Hopefully you're not fat, because you'd probably traumatize those assistants if you were. :D


It sounds like she panicked. Maybe she was raped three weeks ago and she's an all right chick otherwise. Maybe she just broke up and had a last minute pang of guilt.
Ahhh...the wishy washy, can't make up her mind syndrome. Another beautiful woman quality that guys just love. :rolleyes:


In college I had a guy HAND ME A CONDOM and then last second go, "You know, I just broke up, and I can't." And I was pissed at the time, but you know what, sometimes people go through things. And frankly, if I saw the guy today, I'd still want him because he was cute and funny and sexy. Just because people have cracks doesn't mean they're broken.
And just because they might not be broken doesn't mean they are completely well.
You can still drive a car with several mechanical issues/'cracks', but unless it gets tended to, it will get worse.
And sorry, if you were in a state like that, you should have never let it get to that point. Why do you women not understand that?
Don't fuckin rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.

you don't want a woman, mike, you want a television set

you don't want a woman, mike, you want a television set
Uh, given the way that I feel women act when it comes to dating, I thought I've made that abundantly obvious? :shrug:

Plus I have a TV already, and my three dogs(all of whom are more loyal than any woman ever could be).

Sounds to me like shes gonna call and express total dissatisfaction for the fact that this guy has so not got any self esteem:mad:

amazingly hot bombshell date

talked for hours

pay for dinner

get to her place

drink, makeout

move towards the bed only to hear her say "no, im not ready yet"

BAH!

But something really odd happened after she said that... I started respecting her more instead of thinking of her as a one time date lay, I mean she was really chill and told me to take it slow, and instead of getting pissed or annoyed, I thought, wow, she actually has self respect... I kinda like her.

Still, I was left with a severe case of blue balls, but its nothing a porno can't treat.

Anyways, she told me she likes to take it slow, and call her next week sometime...

Chris, Darling,

Do you like the girl? You want to talk to her but she is giving you the shits?

Why do you like her? What attracts you to her:rolleyes:

Hopefully you're not fat, because you'd probably traumatize those assistants if you were. :D

No, and I was told, "No one would complain." Maybe he was being sarcastic, but I doubt it.



Ahhh...the wishy washy, can't make up her mind syndrome. Another beautiful woman quality that guys just love. :rolleyes:

It's a quality shared by both sexes.

But I think people should be able to change their minds about a serious decision like sex.



And just because they might not be broken doesn't mean they are completely well.
You can still drive a car with several mechanical issues/'cracks', but unless it gets tended to, it will get worse.
And sorry, if you were in a state like that, you should have never let it get to that point. Why do you women not understand that?
Don't fuckin rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.

So if a man is turned on by me, I'm obligated to have sex with him regardless of how I feel? Or if I just started my period? Or remember I don't have any rubbers? Or am disgusted because he's not cleaned up before we do it?

Do you also make it a habit of inviting guys over to your place at the end of a first date for drinks, then fairly heavily make out with him; most all guys do not anticipate her out of the blue saying 'I'm not ready yet.' Sorry tak, but when a woman leads the guy on like that, and yes it is leading him on (especailly on a first date), then just says, I'm not ready, that leads me to believe she's either playing mind games with him or is one of those wishy-washy, can't make up her mind, overly analytical (to the point it is self-destructing) women. And if she is, she really isn't worth any guy's time.
But alas, there will always be a guy out there who is just as horny as she is mind-game playing, moody, self-centered, crazy, ugly, etc.

Yeah I agree.

Sounds to me like the girl couldn't handle the stress. Some girls do that they get worked up and not able to function, probably because of the guy they're with. Can't operate in the heat of the moment... Too damn nervous... Freeze up.

Your OP spelled that out quite plainly. You expect sex on the first date. Real life doesn't play out like a porno, people don't just meet and fuck.


I think I made it clear that she led me on to it.



Not very bright are you? You stated your age as 22, and then made a statement about a previous relationship seven years previously, putting you at 15 at the time. Now, if you don't recognise the difference between yourself at 15, and at 22, why should anyone? Seems you haven't learned anything or grown up in those intervening years, doesn't it?

lol, ok now I get where the seven years comes from. I was not saying I had no relationships for seven, I was responding to jessie's post...


My BF and I have been together for 7 years (since we were 17)...


lol. ive had my fair share of troubled relationships.... not for seven years though :rolleyes:

Looks like you are the one who's not very bright for flaming someone without reading the entire post. At least you can subtract 7 from 22 correctly though.


I've no idea, being a gentleman I'd often offer to walk girls home, in fact, I once turned down a girl who propositioned me in a nightclub, because I'd already promised to walk a female friend home.

Aww how very nice of you. You should go tell the world about it.



But I guess there's the difference between Chris and I; I am a gentleman.

Get off your high horse. You're just some guy on the internet looking to appear self righteous.

A true gentleman would not advertise to the world that he is one. :rolleyes:

Chris, Darling,

Do you like the girl? You want to talk to her but she is giving you the shits?

Why do you like her? What attracts you to her:rolleyes:

She didn't give me the shits lol, I think she just changed her mind half way through. Why do I like her? shes got this really hot accent and is always very kick back, very easy to talk to.

I mean, even after she said she was not ready, I didn't ask why, I acted like I knew why. And after that there was not a bit of awkwardness really, we just kicked it a little longer and then I went home because she had work the next morning.

No, and I was told, "No one would complain." Maybe he was being sarcastic, but I doubt it.
I doubt it too. I doubt he would have said that if you looked like and weighed as much as a wildebeast. :roflmao:



It's a quality shared by both sexes.
Well since I'm straight and don't date men, ultimately their behavior isn't important to me. But yes, both sexes act like that.


But I think people should be able to change their minds about a serious decision like sex.
To quote the blond curly haired chick from American Pie: It's sex, not the space shuttle launch.
See below



So if a man is turned on by me, I'm obligated to have sex with him regardless of how I feel? Or if I just started my period? Or remember I don't have any rubbers? Or am disgusted because he's not cleaned up before we do it?
No, if a man is turned on by you, then it's up to your common #%@#%@#$% sense to not even start anything. If it's a first date, it should be apparently obvious if he's cleaned up or not. If you've just started your period, and don't want to have sex, then you shouldn't start making out to begin with. What do you think the man is going to think when you two start making out? I bet the last thing going through his mind is you all of a sudden saying 'stop, I can't do this' out of the blue. Granted you have a right to do that, but he also has a right to never call you again; and the thing is, he is no less right than you are with his decision.
Your only viable excuse above is the lack of condoms. If he doesn't have any either and still wants to have unprotected sex...especially on a first date, you should dismiss him completely.

She didn't give me the shits lol, I think she just changed her mind half way through. Why do I like her? shes got this really hot accent and is always very kick back, very easy to talk to.

I mean, even after she said she was not ready, I didn't ask why, I acted like I knew why. And after that there was not a bit of awkwardness really, we just kicked it a little longer and then I went home because she had work the next morning.

Have you called her or has she called you since then?

Have you called her or has she called you since then?

Probably will today.

She asked me to call her up sometime this week, just taking my time with it since I'm busy with school anyways.

Have you called her or has she called you since then?

Another suggestion...:rolleyes::

He shouldn't cheat on her:rolleyes:

I doubt it too. I doubt he would have said that if you looked like and weighed as much as a wildebeast. :roflmao:

My mom did inform me my bra gave me no shape that day, but sometimes you get an open mind that lets it slide.





To quote the blond curly haired chick from American Pie: It's sex, not the space shuttle launch.
See below

Sex can get VERY messy, in a bad way.


No, if a man is turned on by you, then it's up to your common #%@#%@#$% sense to not even start anything. If it's a first date, it should be apparently obvious if he's cleaned up or not. If you've just started your period, and don't want to have sex, then you shouldn't start making out to begin with. What do you think the man is going to think when you two start making out? I bet the last thing going through his mind is you all of a sudden saying 'stop, I can't do this' out of the blue. Granted you have a right to do that, but he also has a right to never call you again; and the thing is, he is no less right than you are with his decision.
Your only viable excuse above is the lack of condoms. If he doesn't have any either and still wants to have unprotected sex...especially on a first date, you should dismiss him completely.

Oh my. No, sometime guys haven't trimmed for awhile, or seemingly washed their crotch. And I've started an improptu bled before. Now, on the flip side, sure, he can not ever call me, but on the flip side, I think it's kinder to say, "I'm not ready," then, "Couldn't you have washed your crotch?"

Oh my. No, sometime guys haven't trimmed for awhile, or seemingly washed their crotch. And I've started an improptu bled before. Now, on the flip side, sure, he can not ever call me, but on the flip side, I think it's kinder to say, "I'm not ready," then, "Couldn't you have washed your crotch?"
It might be kinder, but it's not entirely true. When you say 'I'm not ready' due to him having an unkept junkyard, he has no idea that you are referring to that. This is what I'm talking about concerning bullshit female hints. :rolleyes:
You tell him you're not ready. What happens the next time you two hang out and given he thinks there was nothing wrong with his junk, his junk is in similar shape. Maybe he has no idea. Now he's going to be in the doghouse (due to the fact that you probably won't want to see him anymore after that) just because you were too chicken shit to tell him the truth.


Ask for what you want. Let's be clear on this one: Subtle hints don't work. Strong hints don't work. Really obvious hints don't work. Just say it!

Probably will today.

She asked me to call her up sometime this week, just taking my time with it since I'm busy with school anyways.
Don't call her at all. Or if you do, wait until next week.
Honestly, if I were you, I'd cut my losses and move on. It's not like there aren't hundreds of millions of other available women out there.

Don't call her at all. Or if you do, wait until next week.
Honestly, if I were you, I'd cut my losses and move on. It's not like there aren't hundreds of millions of other available women out there.

I can assure you shes the one of last things I think about at the moment.

Too busy with school, broken wrist and work to dwell over it.

This thread was just blown out of proportion...

Don't call her at all. Or if you do, wait until next week.
Honestly, if I were you, I'd cut my losses and move on. It's not like there aren't hundreds of millions of other available women out there.

Mike a point if you will.

It sounds like he likes her, despite however much bullshit she put him through. I think that he should give her a chance. Possibly she will come around for him, she sounds a bit like an estatic, who has the maddest of intentions. Goes crazy every once in a while. Loses her temper for the stupidest of reasons etc etc.. Even likes to climb trees. I declare.

I can assure you shes the one of last things I think about at the moment.

Too busy with school, broken wrist and work to dwell over it.

This thread was just blown out of proportion...

What the hell you are always changing your mind:mad:

Mike a point if you will.

It sounds like he likes her, despite however much bullshit she put him through. I think that he should give her a chance. Possibly she will come around for him, she sounds a bit like an estatic, who has the maddest of intentions. Goes crazy every once in a while. Loses her temper for the stupidest of reasons etc etc.. Even likes to climb trees. I declare.
What?

It sounds to me like he likes her but he has no intention of putting up with her crap. And he shouldn't. Not even a little.

You think she would give him another chance if he did something like that? HELL NO!
Most women will brush you off at the drop of a hat. Say one wrong word...gone. Make one socially unacceptable gesture...gone. If they can pull that crap, so can we.

Mike, I'm sooo not fucking you just because of that single post. :p

Mike, I'm sooo not fucking you just because of that single post. :p

Mike has a point but ...

Mike, I'm sooo not fucking you just because of that single post. :p
What single post?
And what is this talk about fucking, of which this is the first I've heard? :bugeye:

It's not like there aren't hundreds of millions of other available women out there.

That's sooo right.
"You want me? Go away there's millions of women out there."
"Oh you want me? Go away there's millions of women out there."

Yup, I can eat this cookie and nobody'll notice 'cos there's packet full.
Hell, I can have another, after it's a whole packet full.
Hmm maybe another one or two...
Oh shit, none left. :shrug:

What single post?
And what is this talk about fucking, of which this is the first I've heard? :bugeye:

I'd just like it on record I'm striving against the cosmos to not make a joke at your expense.

I'd just like it on record I'm striving against the cosmos to not make a joke at your expense.

:bravo:
:roflmao:
:roflmao:

I'd just like it on record I'm striving against the cosmos to not make a joke at your expense.
Why? I'm a firm believer in, If you can't take it, don't dish it out.
And I have dished out my share here. I've taken my share too; I've been flamed by several women at once in various threads. If they didn't break me, you won't either. :D Feel free. Imma big boy. I can take it!

I've no idea, being a gentleman I'd often offer to walk girls home, in fact, I once turned down a girl who propositioned me in a nightclub, because I'd already promised to walk a female friend home.

But I guess there's the difference between Chris and I; I am a gentleman.

get your hand off it

I'd just like it on record I'm striving against the cosmos to not make a joke at your expense.
Oh, OT...I keep for getting to ask you this, who's that chick in your avatar?

Guess, clever one. :p

I think I made it clear that she led me on to it.

No, you made it clear that you think you were being led on. Clearly, you suffered from some misconception, because that wasn't her intent. So, all you have made clear, is your inability to read the situation.


lol, ok now I get where the seven years comes from. I was not saying I had no relationships for seven, I was responding to jessie's post...

I didn't imply you hadn't had a relationship for seven years either, comprehension not your strong point? It's just you mentioned a relationship you had had seen vyears previously, when you were 15, as if that was relevant somehow. Seems you are living in the past, or haven't grown up.


Looks like you are the one who's not very bright for flaming someone without reading the entire post. At least you can subtract 7 from 22 correctly though.

What you wrote implied that a 'troubled relationship' you had when you were 15 was somehow relevant. If you can't convey what you mean clearly, stop and have a think before you write.


Get off your high horse. You're just some guy on the internet looking to appear self righteous.

And you are some naive child who looks to a bunch of guys on the Internet for advice!


A true gentleman would not advertise to the world that he is one.

How would you know? You clearly aren't one. Ever met one?

.... Granted you have a right to do that, but he also has a right to never call you again; and the thing is, he is no less right than you are with his decision.....

I agree. Who wants to out with a man who thinks it's ok for him to treat me like a slut? :rolleyes:

I don't understand. If a women acts the same as a man and is open/honest about liking sex, she's a slut and doesn't deserve to be called again. If she lets the man know she likes him and is interested but doesn't want sex, she doesn't deserve to be called again.

Its a good thing you're not gay Mike. I can't imagine all the reasons you would have to come up with for disliking your own sex.

I agree. Who wants to out with a man who thinks it's ok for him to treat me like a slut? :rolleyes:
What? Where in any of my statements did you get that from?
All I said is that a man has just as much right to not call a woman for not doing this or that, as a woman does to brush a guy off for acting like a douche bag. Did I condone or condemn either, no I didn't. I was just making a statement.
However I did say it was shitty for a woman to up and change her mind at the last minute. Ask any guy on here if he enjoys it when a woman is all wishy washy and can't make up her mind. See how many 'I enjoy that behavior very much' responses you get.


I don't understand. If a women acts the same as a man and is open/honest about liking sex, she's a slut and doesn't deserve to be called again. If she lets the man know she likes him and is interested but doesn't want sex, she doesn't deserve to be called again.
Some guys have that mindset. I don't.
And if a girl likes a guy and is interested, how could she not want sex? Do you she doesn't want sex right then?



Its a good thing you're not gay Mike. I can't imagine all the reasons you would have to come up with for disliking your own sex.
I dislike most people anyway Orly. Believe me, I already have plenty of reasons for disliking most men and the way they act; sometimes I'm embarrassed to share the same gene pool with some guys.

No, you made it clear that you think you were being led on. Clearly, you suffered from some misconception, because that wasn't her intent. So, all you have made clear, is your inability to read the situation.


Maybe you are right, then again maybe not since she said she felt bad for leading me on just a couple of hours ago over the phone. I told her well take it slow from now on.

Either way, that's all you had to say the whole time, instead of sounding like a prick and flaming.



What you wrote implied that a 'troubled relationship' you had when you were 15 was somehow relevant. If you can't convey what you mean clearly, stop and have a think before you write.


I meant it clearly, if anything I should have quoted who I was responding to. Don't bullshit me though its your fault for not reading the thread before posting.



And you are some naive child who looks to a bunch of guys on the Internet for advice!


I'm just having a conversation. This is a discussion forum isn't it?

Always looking for someway to flame aren't you?



How would you know? You clearly aren't one. Ever met one?

I might have, but I wouldn't know. Anyone who would go out of his way to call himself one is just a self righteous loser in my book.

No, you made it clear that you think you were being led on. Clearly, you suffered from some misconception, because that wasn't her intent.
Oh really? Then tell us what her intent was, Dr. Love. :rolleyes:
It pretty much sounds to me like she was leading him on. You don't just up and say, 'I'm not ready' especially after you invite the guy in for drinks and start some heavy petting.



So, all you have made clear, is your inability to read the situation.
I don't think he's the one who lacks the ability to read a situation, especially given that he was there and you weren't.

He's 22 and senses the woman led him on. I'm 36 and by what I've read, she lead him on. You gunna sit there and tell me that I'm too young and lack experience and need to grow up too? :bugeye:

Oh really? Then tell us what her intent was, Dr. Love. :rolleyes:

I don't know, I wasn't there, reading the situation with my life experience, was I? It's clear what her intent wasn't though, isn't it?


I don't think he's the one who lacks the ability to read a situation, especially given that he was there and you weren't.

Well, he was there, thought he was going to get sex, but wasn't. It was him that was wrong, not me.


He's 22 and senses the woman led him on. I'm 36 and by what I've read, she lead him on. You gunna sit there and tell me that I'm too young and lack experience and need to grow up too? :bugeye:

I mentioned his age in a different context, about him mentioning a relationship he had when he was 15. You are convolving different things I have said, please try and get it straight. But as for you Mike, well I've read many and various posts about your attitude towards women, and I think it's best you are single. I find it amusing that you think it's your choice to be so though.

Maybe you are right, then again maybe not since she said she felt bad for leading me on just a couple of hours ago over the phone.

Sure she did.

Chris4355: But something really odd happened after she said that... I started respecting her more instead of thinking of her as a one time date lay, I mean she was really chill and told me to take it slow, and instead of getting pissed or annoyed, I thought, wow, she actually has self respect... I kinda like her.

She has self-respect because she denies him sex. He only starts respecting her simply because she denies him sex. Says a lot of what he thinks of himself wouldn't you say! Can you imagine what he thinks of the dumb bitches who actually think he's sweet or sexy enough to take him on? Yikes!

Sure she did.

I have no reason to lie, I could leave this forum right now and no one would ever know me or affect me.

No need to be in denial for being wrong buddy.


Can you imagine what he thinks of the dumb bitches who actually think he's sweet or sexy enough to take him on? Yikes!

I'm sorry but, most men have less respect for women who sleep around, this is not something new. It's not like we think sluts are "sub human", its just that we do not consider them to be people whom we would want to go anywhere beyond a casual hook up with.

When she offered me drinks and led me on to her room, that's exactly what I thought of her, and so would any other guy.

Chris, I don't think you have any place speaking for all men. Some of us hooked up on the first formal date and had it last for years.

Chris, I don't think you have any place speaking for all men. Some of us hooked up on the first formal date and had it last for years.
Very true. That's why I never automatically assume the woman is a slut when that happens. I've had relatively quick hookups out of the gate last over a year before.

Chris:I'm sorry but, most men have less respect for women who sleep around, this is not something new. It's not like we think sluts are "sub human", its just that we do not consider them to be people whom we would want to go anywhere beyond a casual hook up with.When she offered me drinks and led me on to her room, that's exactly what I thought of her, and so would any other guy.

You miss my point, the fact that YOU wanted to have sex with her and then YOU wanted to judge her badly if she were willing to have sex with YOU, says more about YOU and what you think of yourself than it is any indication of her character, that's all.

I would see your point if you had said she taken you over to the bed on the first date but you didn't. You said you made a motion to take it to the bed and then she said she wanted to wait. She didn't initiate the sex you did. You initiated it because it was something you wanted and then its as if you were going to blame her if she had decided she wanted to also.

Get it now?

Based on your theory she should decide to never see you again because you showed an undiciplined and indiscriminate nature by trying to have sex with her before you even had the chance to know whether her hole deserved it or not. Based on your theory she should judge you and your weenie should fall off because its just plain nasty! I mean you are the man-slut who was going to 'sleep around' on the first date.

Haha, just joking of course but you see my point right?

You're American right? I bet you're American.

Puritans.

Chris:I'm sorry but, most men have less respect for women who sleep around, this is not something new. It's not like we think sluts are "sub human", its just that we do not consider them to be people whom we would want to go anywhere beyond a casual hook up with.When she offered me drinks and led me on to her room, that's exactly what I thought of her, and so would any other guy.
Ok so at that point when she invited him in and offered her drinks you do think she's leading him on, but



I would see your point if you had said she taken you over to the bed on the first date but you didn't. You said you made a motion to take it to the bed and then she said she wanted to wait. She didn't initiate the sex you did. You initiated it because it was something you wanted and then its as if you were going to blame her if she had decided she wanted to also.
you magically change your tune at the point that you automatically assume that going over to the bed was Chris' idea. Here's the exact content of the OP concerning that..

move towards the bed only to hear her say "no, im not ready yet"
How do you interpret that this was Chris' idea? And even if it was his idea, how can you magically change your tune after the woman merely making one statement? WTF? She led him on. I see it. Chris sees it. Chris even said he talked to her after that and she apologized for leading him on.
It seems to me you want to defend this woman regardless of what she did just to spite Chris for being after only one thing.


Get it now?
I don't think we're the ones who don't get it, dear.



Haha, just joking of course but you see my point right?
We see yours (albeit don't agree with it), however I don't think you see our point.


You're American right? I bet you're American.

Puritans.
I prefer the term Rebel.

mikenostic: Ok so at that point when she invited him in and offered her drinks you do think she's leading him on, but

No not necessarily. Like Phlog insinuated, if the threadstarter were a gentlemen he would have not suggested the bed even if she did invite him in for drinks; his suggestion doesn't show her in good character it shows him up as a rogue! To invite someone in for drinks is one type of intimacy that relates to trust or trying to get to know someone better in an informal setting...it doesn't necessarily mean sex

Mike: you magically change your tune at the point that you automatically assume that going over to the bed was Chris' idea. Here's the exact content of the OP concerning that..

He doesn't add too much detail in the thread does he? No he says talk, dinner, her place, makeout, MOVE TOWARDS THE BED, ONLY TO HEAR HER SAY 'I'M NOT READY'. I'm no bloody detective but it seems to me a woman how is saying 'no I am not ready' must be responding to something. I am sure he wasn't keeping his hands to himself engaged in deep convo when she suddenly says 'I'm not ready'.

Mike:How do you interpret that this was Chris' idea? And even if it was his idea, how can you magically change your tune after the woman merely making one statement? WTF? She led him on. I see it. Chris sees it. Chris even said he talked to her after that and she apologized for leading him on.


This sounds so puerile 'she lead me on'. Let me clue you MEN DON'T TALK LIKE THIS!!!
Okay lets move on. If Chris says he was 'lead on' its because he wanted to have sex, men who don't want to have sex cannot be 'lead on'. Next chris says he now respects her for not being ready for sex, but its obvious he EXPECTED sex and was READY for sex or he wouldn't have felt lead on. All this is fine I just think it rich for him now to say if she had been willing to have sex when he obviously was interested her being a 'hot bombshell date' etc. she would have been a 'slut' for wanting what he also seemed to have wanted.

Micke:It seems to me you want to defend this woman regardless of what she did just to spite Chris for being after only one thing.

Rubbish. Hypersensitivity by an american male who sees a feminist hiding under every bed. Did it hurt when those she-males catrated your population? No wonder you're so defensive. Don't worry I am neither a male-basher nor a hater of a males natural instincts. Feel better now?

Mike: I prefer the term Rebel.

Like those children without a cause.

Where you chaperoning Chris at the time? Why don't you let him respond?

Haha. Chris is probably too busy. Out romancing the same woman!

Chris, I don't think you have any place speaking for all men. Some of us hooked up on the first formal date and had it last for years.

There are exceptions with almost everything. Sometimes the bed is just where you end up no matter how "pure" your intentions prior to the date.

I don't think I'm perfect, particularly good looking, nice, etc... and when a girl is willing to hook up with me on a first date I just see her as a girl willing to hook up with any random guy.


No not necessarily. Like Phlog insinuated, if the threadstarter were a gentlemen he would have not suggested the bed even if she did invite him in for drinks; his suggestion doesn't show her in good character it shows him up as a rogue! To invite someone in for drinks is one type of intimacy that relates to trust or trying to get to know someone better in an informal setting...it doesn't necessarily mean sex

Why are you so offended by this situation? For all you know she led me on from the start. The problem is that you do not know what happened and I do. I have no reason to lie since frankly, I really do not see the point in doing so. Chill out Sherlock, you are not solving a case here.




He doesn't add too much detail in the thread does he? No he says talk, dinner, her place, makeout, MOVE TOWARDS THE BED, ONLY TO HEAR HER SAY 'I'M NOT READY'. I'm no bloody detective but it seems to me a woman how is saying 'no I am not ready' must be responding to something. I am sure he wasn't keeping his hands to himself engaged in deep convo when she suddenly says 'I'm not ready'.


Right, because you know everything. Do I have to write a book about this in order to keep you satisfied?



This sounds so puerile 'she lead me on'. Let me clue you MEN DON'T TALK LIKE THIS!!!

k, I guess I am not a man. :rolleyes:



Okay lets move on. If Chris says he was 'lead on' its because he wanted to have sex, men who don't want to have sex cannot be 'lead on'. Next chris says he now respects her for not being ready for sex, but its obvious he EXPECTED sex and was READY for sex or he wouldn't have felt lead on. All this is fine I just think it rich for him now to say if she had been willing to have sex when he obviously was interested her being a 'hot bombshell date' etc. she would have been a 'slut' for wanting what he also seemed to have wanted.


Of course I wanted to have sex, I am not denying that. Hey if she wants to think I am a man-whore because I was willing to do it on the first night so be it.

You seem to have been really offended by the word "slut", while I was merely joking and am completely aware that I did not know much about her in the first place during that date. Am I allowed to make assumptions and judge people? Or are you going to make a scene about that too?



Where you chaperoning Chris at the time? Why don't you let him respond?


Why are you defending a random girl I went on a date with that you don't even know?

Maybe mike is just trying to put some sense into you.



Haha. Chris is probably too busy. Out romancing the same woman!

Actually not really, I ended up going paint balling over the week end.



I just need to make something clear for all you detectives in here trying to make your own scenarios...

I have no reason to make any of this up I am just telling the story how I saw it.

OBVIOUSLY If I pushed it for sex and she ended up saying she is not ready, then that's normal. And I would not have made a thread about this.

But that was not the case, she initiated it. I am not gonna say I did not make the first move in her living room but shes the one who went to the bed and in the heat of things changed her mind.

I am sure if you were starting sexy time with a guy and he did that you would end up just as confused.

It was Mike who seemed offended. My intial response was "She has self-respect because she denies him sex. He only starts respecting her simply because she denies him sex. Says a lot of what he thinks of himself wouldn't you say! Can you imagine what he thinks of the dumb bitches who actually think he's sweet or sexy enough to take him on? Yikes"

Now what don't you get about this? You judge her of having good character for NOT having sex with you. At the same time you are accusing her of 'leading you on'. You praise her and then accuse her of being a tease. Don't you think this says more about you than her?

Chris: Right, because you know everything. Do I have to write a book about this in order to keep you satisfied?

How can I know everything when I said you offer little detail but give enough information for a reader to glean certain ideas, like the idea it was you who were fishing for some action not her.How do I know this? I know this because you say she is the one who ended the thing not you. You go on to praise her for showing self-control and not being a slut. I find that ironic.

Now if you didn't want the masses to speculate on what happened you wouldn't have posted the thread!!

Chris:k, I guess I am not a man.

Being male doesn't make a man anymore than being female makes a woman, so no men do not talk like that. Real men also don't go on public forums and discuss 'hottie dates' with strangers etc. that's frat house talk, the kind of talk expected of a boy not a man. Men also don't ponder over whether they have been lead on or not. The game changes with age and so does the dialogue.

Perhaps a little childish and hardly the mark of a gentlemen, if you doubt this assertion simply show this young woman the thread and see what reaction you get.

Chris: Of course I wanted to have sex, I am not denying that. Hey if she wants to think I am a man-whore because I was willing to do it on the first night so be it.

I know you wanted to have sex I am not implying there was something wrong with that. AGAIN I was simply pointing out the IRONY of you referring to her show of good character by not having sex with you and then saying if she had you may think of her as a slut. In other words she would be judged for doing what you yourself would want to do. Why is this not getting through?

Chris: You seem to have been really offended by the word "slut", while I was merely joking and am completely aware that I did not know much about her in the first place during that date. Am I allowed to make assumptions and judge people? Or are you going to make a scene about that too?

I am not the woman in question so why should I be offended? AGAIN! IT IS THE IRONY OF USING THE TERM SLUT TO DESCRIBE AN ACT YOU WERE READY TO PERFORM AT THE DROP OF A HAT. YOU WOULD MAKE ASSUMPTIONS OF HER AND PERHAPS JUDGE HER BUT YOU DO NOT SEE THE IRONY OF MAKING SUCH ASSUMPTIONS OF BEHAVIOUR YOU WERE READY TO ENGAGE IN IF SHE HAD ALLOWED IT! This is really quite simple. Actually it is you and Mike who now seem offended. I was simply pointing out an obvious absurdity but nevermind.

Chris: Why are you defending a random girl I went on a date with that you don't even know?

I AM NOT DEFENDING ANYONE! The chick doesn't need defending because she sent you home with...DARE I REMIND YOU...BLUEBALLS! Don't you get it? No you really don't do you.

Chris: have no reason to make any of this up I am just telling the story how I saw it.

Why on earth would I think you are making anything up?

Chris: OBVIOUSLY If I pushed it for sex and she ended up saying she is not ready, then that's normal. And I would not have made a thread about this.
But that was not the case, she initiated it. I am not gonna say I did not make the first move in her living room but shes the one who went to the bed and in the heat of things changed her mind.

Obviously she didn't initiate sex, from what you are saying she initiated everything but sex. She became intimate with you but she didn't want to take it further. But as I said before this is not my point! My point is not so much that she didn't want to have sex its the fact that you say you RESPECTED her for making such a decision which made me laugh because it says a lot about what you think of yourself. You also went on to say that if she had slept with you, you would have possibly thought of her as a slut which again hints to what you think of a girl who does choose to sleep with you.

My god this simple thing takes too much effort but I am sure if it were directed to anyone else you would have caught it right away. Nevermind.

Chris: I am sure if you were starting sexy time with a guy and he did that you would end up just as confused

Not in my experience.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

D.H Lawrence wrote in Women In Love:

"She was rich, full of dangerous power. She was like a strange unconscious bud of powerful womanhood. He was unconsciously drawn to her"..."He would never, never dare to break her will, and let loose the maelstrom of her subconsciousness….”


Hahaha! Rock on guys!

Being male doesn't make a man anymore than being female makes a woman
Yo Lucy!
:worship:

I'm sorry but, most men have less respect for women who sleep around, this is not something new. It's not like we think sluts are "sub human", its just that we do not consider them to be people whom we would want to go anywhere beyond a casual hook up with.

When she offered me drinks and led me on to her room, that's exactly what I thought of her, and so would any other guy.

that or they're really into you. give em a chance man.

I have no reason to lie, I could leave this forum right now and no one would ever know me or affect me.

Yeah, why don't you give that a go. Leaving, that is.


No need to be in denial for being wrong buddy.


Well, you have admitted you were wrong, ie, thought you were going to get sex, but didn't. I don't quite know what you think you are denying.

Now what don't you get about this? You judge her of having good character for NOT having sex with you. At the same time you are accusing her of 'leading you on'. You praise her and then accuse her of being a tease. Don't you think this says more about you than her?

I was just wondering why she changed her mind. Are you done with making things more complicated than they really are?

Now if you didn't want the masses to speculate on what happened you wouldn't have posted the thread!!

Maybe. All speculations asides thought some people gave good advice, before the detectives and self righteous people came in of course.

Being male doesn't make a man anymore than being female makes a woman, so no men do not talk like that. Real men also don't go on public forums and discuss 'hottie dates' with strangers etc. that's frat house talk, the kind of talk expected of a boy not a man. Men also don't ponder over whether they have been lead on or not. The game changes with age and so does the dialogue.

Oh I am so sorry Sherlock, I did not know I could not speak about this in the Free Thoughts sections of an internet forum. If you don't like frat house talk, then don't join the conversation. Its that simple.

Perhaps a little childish and hardly the mark of a gentlemen, if you doubt this assertion simply show this young woman the thread and see what reaction you get.

I was expecting this to be a 2 page discussion... I don't mind this though, gives me something to look forward to when I get home.



I know you wanted to have sex I am not implying there was something wrong with that. AGAIN I was simply pointing out the IRONY of you referring to her show of good character by not having sex with you and then saying if she had you may think of her as a slut. In other words she would be judged for doing what you yourself would want to do. Why is this not getting through?


I am not the woman in question so why should I be offended? AGAIN! IT IS THE IRONY OF USING THE TERM SLUT TO DESCRIBE AN ACT YOU WERE READY TO PERFORM AT THE DROP OF A HAT. YOU WOULD MAKE ASSUMPTIONS OF HER AND PERHAPS JUDGE HER BUT YOU DO NOT SEE THE IRONY OF MAKING SUCH ASSUMPTIONS OF BEHAVIOUR YOU WERE READY TO ENGAGE IN IF SHE HAD ALLOWED IT! This is really quite simple. Actually it is you and Mike who now seem offended. I was simply pointing out an obvious absurdity but nevermind.

Obviously she didn't initiate sex, from what you are saying she initiated everything but sex. She became intimate with you but she didn't want to take it further. But as I said before this is not my point! My point is not so much that she didn't want to have sex its the fact that you say you RESPECTED her for making such a decision which made me laugh because it says a lot about what you think of yourself. You also went on to say that if she had slept with you, you would have possibly thought of her as a slut which again hints to what you think of a girl who does choose to sleep with you.

My god this simple thing takes too much effort but I am sure if it were directed to anyone else you would have caught it right away. Nevermind.


Ok putting all side arguments aside, I think I need to tell you about the things everybody knows yet never talk about:

What you are complaining about is not just with me, you are complaining about the general norm that if a man has sex on a first date, or if a man has sex with 10 women in a month, then people think he's cool and the usual response is "good job". However if a woman does the exact same thing she gets a more negative response, people will think she is slutty etc...

I do not know why we choose to govern ourselves this way and I do see the fallacy, in fact I had discussed this with friends a long time ago and am very aware of it, I just came to accept it.

I am willing to betcha a million dollars that if a woman goes on a date with 50 guys and offers sex every time, she will get laid at least 45 times. And most of the guys who say shit like "oh no I would never do that" are either lying or just insecure. I would argue that only a very small percentage of them would actually think its wrong and would hold themselves up to it, props for them I guess...

Now, lets turn this around, if a man goes on a date with 50 women and offers sex everytime, he will get laid maybe like what? 8 times max?

It is generally accepted that women chose when to have sex, while men just always wanna do it.

Now, back to her...

If a girl plays hard to get, men automatically like her and respect her more. I don't know why and I do not understand it myself, but I am a sucker for it and its really annoying. Its amazing just how many girls I have not gone for because they acted too desperate or easy to get, maybe there is something wrong with me, but I doubt it, as this happens with people all around me all the time. Unlike them though I admit it.

Thats what I meant by respecting her, she held herself up, and showed that maybe she wants to wait it out.

She showed me that she just doesn't give it up for anyone and maybe there will be some more meaning to anything developing between us. I am not saying that sleeping with someone means nothing can develop, but I do know that sex can be much more emotional for some, and maybe they only want to share it with people they care about. That's all, and that's what made me "respect" her more, and its the reason why I would prefer keeping in touch with her than a girl I barely know who just puts out, whom I would just call to get laid here and there.

Oh and one more thing, you would have a much easier time getting your point across if you just change your tone up a bit.

Yeah, why don't you give that a go. Leaving, that is.


Ok man I got it. You are the best at everything, a true gentleman. And I am a scumbag 22 year old jerk off.

Thumbs up, you win. I hope this useless flame war significantly increased your self esteem.

that or they're really into you. give em a chance man.

I'm just speaking in general there are always exceptions.

She is just constipated....mentally, I mean....

Lucy, learn how to use the damn QUOTE tags already. Sheesh.



It was Mike who seemed offended. My intial response was "She has self-respect because she denies him sex. He only starts respecting her simply because she denies him sex. Says a lot of what he thinks of himself wouldn't you say! Can you imagine what he thinks of the dumb bitches who actually think he's sweet or sexy enough to take him on? Yikes"
I was offended because dumbasses like you automatically turn to defend the girl. You are advocating her wishy washy, change her mind on a whim behavior.
Just like I mention earlier, a woman has just as much right to change her mind on a whim as a man does to not call her anymore. One is not any worse than the other but you seem to be putting the woman's mentality on a pedestal while condemning the man's behavior. I will not stand for that. You can take your double standards and insert them where the sun doesn't shine, missy.


Being male doesn't make a man anymore than being female makes a woman, so no men do not talk like that. Real men also don't go on public forums and discuss 'hottie dates' with strangers etc.
Real women don't come on internet forums and defend those 'hottie dates' either. Who died and made you Chris' date's spokesperson anyway?
I helped Chris out because all you ladies were on here unjustly flaming him and unjustly condoning her. Fuck that.


that's frat house talk, the kind of talk expected of a boy not a man. Men also don't ponder over whether they have been lead on or not. The game changes with age and so does the dialogue.
And your response is 'snooty sorority bitch' talk. Big deal.


Perhaps a little childish and hardly the mark of a gentlemen, if you doubt this assertion simply show this young woman the thread and see what reaction you get.
yeah a very petty, defensive, knee-jerk reaction


I was simply pointing out an obvious absurdity but nevermind.
You mean like the absurdity of your novel-length responses?


Chris: Why are you defending a random girl I went on a date with that you don't even know?


I AM NOT DEFENDING ANYONE! The chick doesn't need defending because she sent you home with...DARE I REMIND YOU...BLUEBALLS! Don't you get it? No you really don't do you.
The length and detail of your defensive responses would indicate otherwise.


Lucy, you definitely sound like one of those women who would actually send Dick a hate mail message on www.menarebetterthanwomen.com.


Now, back to her...

If a girl plays hard to get, men automatically like her and respect her more. I don't know why and I do not understand it myself, but I am a sucker for it and its really annoying. Its amazing just how many girls I have not gone for because they acted too desperate or easy to get, maybe there is something wrong with me, but I doubt it, as this happens with people all around me all the time. Unlike them though I admit it.

I'm the total opposite. Playing hard to get is one of the biggest turn offs for me. I know for a fact that if a woman really likes a man, she isn't going to make it that hard for him. She might be subtle about it but she won't play hard to get.
I have better things to do with my time than chase a woman playing hard to get.
I don't like the desparate ones either. But if they are somewhat busy with their life, the won't need to play hard to get.

I'm the total opposite. Playing hard to get is one of the biggest turn offs for me. I know for a fact that if a woman really likes a man, she isn't going to make it that hard for him. She might be subtle about it but she won't play hard to get.
I have better things to do with my time than chase a woman playing hard to get.
I don't like the desparate ones either. But if they are somewhat busy with their life, the won't need to play hard to get.

So a girl who respects herself and doesn't 'spread them wide' on the first date is playing hard to get?

Interesting.

Yet if she did not play hard to get and simply "put out", she would be deemed a slut or a whore. But you are claiming that you know for a fact that if a woman really likes a man, she's just going to have sex with him because he wants it. It's all about him, isn't it? If she respects herself and doesn't sleep with the guy on the first date, she's playing hard to get. Issue there is that she's not respecting the guy's "authoritay" and giving him what he wants.:rolleyes:

Of course you have better things to do than "chase a woman" who have self respect and won't just sleep with every Tom, Dick and Harry that she may happen to meet and go on a date with. Thankfully for you there are hookers who don't play hard to get and will make it about you if you pay her enough.:)

So a girl who respects herself and doesn't 'spread them wide' on the first date is playing hard to get?

Interesting.
No no no no! That's not the example I'm talking about concerning playing hard to get. DAMN!! Stop misunderstanding me. There are umpteen ways to 'play hard to get'; not returning phone calls when you are supposed to, showing up late for dates, sending mixed signals (heavily fliratious one minute, cold shoulder the next)...I could go on and on w/o even including the last minute 'I'm not ready' crap, on the list.**


Yet if she did not play hard to get and simply "put out", she would be deemed a slut or a whore. But you are claiming that you know for a fact that if a woman really likes a man, she's just going to have sex with him because he wants it. It's all about him, isn't it? If she respects herself and doesn't sleep with the guy on the first date, she's playing hard to get. Issue there is that she's not respecting the guy's "authoritay" and giving him what he wants.:rolleyes:
*puts face in palms of hand and shakes head in disbelief* Bells, we've went over this before...ad nauseum.
I have no problem with a woman waiting. What I do have a problem with is when the woman waits until the last second and just up and changes her mind. There is not a fuckin man on this board (a 'real' one if you will) that will admit to enjoying when a woman just up and changes her mind.
And yes, if a woman ever up and does something like that to me, I will not return her phone calls. It's not the fact that she wouldn't sleep with me, it never has been. It's the fact that she blindsided him with 'I'm not ready yet' AFTER she invited him in for drinks and what not.


Of course you have better things to do than "chase a woman" who have self respect and won't just sleep with every Tom, Dick and Harry that she may happen to meet and go on a date with. Thankfully for you there are hookers who don't play hard to get and will make it about you if you pay her enough.:)
See resonse above about playing hard to get.
**I do not chase women. If they give me all the right signals however, I will make the next move. But if I get nothing or mixed signals, I won't go for it.

So a girl who respects herself and doesn't 'spread them wide' on the first date is playing hard to get?

Interesting.

Yet if she did not play hard to get and simply "put out", she would be deemed a slut or a whore. But you are claiming that you know for a fact that if a woman really likes a man, she's just going to have sex with him because he wants it. It's all about him, isn't it? If she respects herself and doesn't sleep with the guy on the first date, she's playing hard to get. Issue there is that she's not respecting the guy's "authoritay" and giving him what he wants.:rolleyes:

Of course you have better things to do than "chase a woman" who have self respect and won't just sleep with every Tom, Dick and Harry that she may happen to meet and go on a date with. Thankfully for you there are hookers who don't play hard to get and will make it about you if you pay her enough.:)

I think the guy just finds it attractive when a girl makes the move, and behaves as if she wants the guy.

You don't have to take his idea to the extreme...

...I don't think I'm perfect, particularly good looking, nice, etc... and when a girl is willing to hook up with me on a first date I just see her as a girl willing to hook up with any random guy....

so a girl you know who sleeps with you on the first date is no different than a girl you have just met at a bar/party who sleeps with you that same night.

so a girl you know who sleeps with you on the first date is no different than a girl you have just met at a bar/party who sleeps with you that same night.

Of course its different, I have never kept in touch with any girl I hooked up with at a party. (and I never go to bars)

I just think that if a girl puts out fast, she just as easily puts out to any other guy. I don't have this typical guy ego where I think I was the only one able to pull her pants down... thats all.

Of course its different, I have never kept in touch with any girl I hooked up with at a party. (and I never go to bars)

I just think that if a girl puts out fast, she just as easily puts out to any other guy. I don't have this typical guy ego where I think I was the only one able to pull her pants down... thats all.

But then a guy who's trying to get into a girls pants on the first date is only after 1 thing and has no interest in a relationship. He's just a playa.

I guess I like to think you're both adults and you should be able to have sex when you want to without judging eachother.

But then a guy who's trying to get into a girls pants on the first date is only after 1 thing and has no interest in a relationship. He's just a playa.


Actually the only way to get laid is if you don't ask for it, and don't even think about it during the date. ;)

why is it the woman's fault that the man is so easy.

But then a guy who's trying to get into a girls pants on the first date is only after 1 thing and has no interest in a relationship. He's just a playa.
I'm glad you brought this up Orly, because I disagree.
Most every guy given the opportunity, will try to sleep with a girl on the first date, or at least try. It's up to the girl to say stop as soon as she can if she doesn't want to sleep with him.
I guess it's just the guy's test for girls. Don't sit there and tell me you ladies don't test us guys. You do and you have no right to complain when we do testing of our own.
The only thing I expect on a first date (and only if I thought it went great and she did too) is a kiss. If she won't even at least kiss me, I know right then there will be no second date.
If I got invited in like Chris did, I'd probably just keep my hands to myself and let her initiate anything; because I dont' want to get all into it only to have her say, I'm not ready. I'd rather just stay calm and think about/plan for the next date.


I guess I like to think you're both adults and you should be able to have sex when you want to without judging eachother.
'should be able to', but unfortunately, it never works that way. People judge each other harshly and unjustly quite often.

why is it the woman's fault that the man is so easy.

That's about like saying why is it the man's fault that the woman becomes really bitchy for a few days a month.

:bugeye:

why is it the woman's fault that the man is so easy.

Me thinks...

its because most of us men are pigs, and most of you women actually have some self control in that department. Women are not the type who go out of their way brag about who they slept with, while for men its a new trophy.

Let me over emphasize the word most, because there are exceptions in both department, and by the nature of this thread if I don't do so someone will begin to flame me.:rolleyes:

Me thinks...

its because most of us men are pigs, and most of you women actually have some self control in that department. ...

yep. I think if men used a bit more self-control and showed some restraint....well. I bet when the guy finally said 'oh, all right' that sex would be phenomenal. She would bring her A-game.

Me thinks...

its because most of us men are pigs, and most of you women actually have some self control in that department. Women are not the type who go out of their way brag about who they slept with, while for men its a new trophy.

Let me over emphasize the word most, because there are exceptions in both department, and by the nature of this thread if I don't do so someone will begin to flame me.:rolleyes:

Oh fuck that dude.
I'll correct it by saying that most women 'say' they have self control. Just because women don't brag about who they've slept with doesn't mean a damn thing. It's been proven that women cheat just as much as men do. They just tend to keep it quieter, which tells me that they are shady pigs rather than 'out in the open' pigs.

yep. I think if men used a bit more self-control and showed some restraint....well.
Not when there are hundreds of thousands of other women out there that won't make him use that self control.
I'm not advocating it, just stating facts. They're called options. And it works on almost every level out there.
If one car dealership doesn't give you exactly what you want, what do you do? You go find another one that will.
If one restaurant doesn't have what you want to eat, what do you do? Go find another one.
Orly, especially in this day and age, people do not want to and are not going to wait.

Oh fuck that dude.
I'll correct it by saying that most women 'say' they have self control. Just because women don't brag about who they've slept with doesn't mean a damn thing. It's been proven that women cheat just as much as men do. They just tend to keep it quieter, which tells me that they are shady pigs rather than 'out in the open' pigs.

Fair enough, I see where you are coming from but,

Assuming you are attractive, go ask 20 random girls to screw you. You will get slapped, sued and kicked in the nuts for practically all of them.

Now have a hot girl do the same and see how different her response is...

I am by no means implying that women are angels in relationships, we are just talking about whos more willing to give it up first.

Not when there are hundreds of thousands of other women out there that won't make him use that self control.....

make him?? the woman has to make a man control himself? :bugeye:
I bet when that happens, she's a controlling bitch or a tease. :rolleyes: What is she, his mommy?

....Now have a hot girl do the same and see how different her response is...

I am by no means implying that women are angels in relationships, we are just talking about whos more willing to give it up first.


pfffft, I don't even think she has to be hot. :rolleyes:

pfffft, I don't even think she has to be hot. :rolleyes:

no... probably not.

Fair enough, I see where you are coming from but,

Assuming you are attractive, go ask 20 random girls to screw you. You will get slapped, sued and kicked in the nuts for practically all of them.
You're preaching to the choir. I'm well aware of what you are getting at.


make him?? the woman has to make a man control himself?
Well let's see if the guy wants to sleep with the woman bad enough and she tells him he has to wait, and he does, then yeah. I think that's pretty much exactly how it goes.
That's why I responded with 'there are plenty of other girls who won't make him wait (or use his self control or whatever).'
I'm assuming by your stupid ass questions that my Barney level analogies were yet again way too much for your intellect?


I bet when that happens, she's a controlling bitch or a tease. What is she, his mommy?
She can be whatever she wants to be but it still wouldn't prevent him (might even encourage him) to go on to the next girl.

....I'm assuming by your stupid ass questions that my Barney level analogies were yet again way too much for your intellect?.....

and I'm assuming by your hostility that you need to get laid. or you need to buy another dog cuz you ain't gettin near enough loving.

and I'm assuming by your hostility that you need to get laid. or you need to buy another dog cuz you ain't gettin near enough loving.

...or not having to deal with internet forum members incessantly making idiotic and presumptuous statements would also do wonders for my hostility too.

Sure, I'll go and try to get laid, only to have the woman tell me at the last minute 'I'm not ready'. :rolleyes:

...or not having to deal with internet forum members incessantly making idiotic and presumptuous statements would also do wonders for my hostility too. .....

hmm, I don't let what other people say control me like that.
I guess that makes you my bitch. :D

Oh Shut-up Mike that last post wasn't directed towards you so why don't you find your own cause to avenge. My adolescent rebel!

Chris:I was just wondering why she changed her mind. Are you done with making things more complicated than they really are?

This isn't complicated. We change our minds, sometimes for a variety of reasons, sometimes for no reason. It could be whim, it could be game (to make you want her more). It doesn't matter why she changed her mind. And its frankly amusing that that one little move on her part has your mind all twisted with question marks! Its a sign that you have been seduced. This isn't complicated either ask her out on a second date or not! Better yet, ask her out and ask her why yourself? But you would never do that would you. Haha! I am not suggesting you should either.

Chris:Oh I am so sorry Sherlock, I did not know I could not speak about this in the Free Thoughts sections of an internet forum. If you don't like frat house talk, then don't join the conversation. Its that simple.

Who said you couldn't or shouldnt bring it up? I was making an observation which is the right of anyone on an open forum. If you dont like the responses then keep the personal to yourself and pm a friend. ITS THAT SIMPLE!

Chris: I was expecting this to be a 2 page discussion...

You're a world of expectations!

Chris:What you are complaining about is not just with me, you are complaining about the general norm that if a man has sex on a first date, or if a man has sex with 10 women in a month, then people think he's cool and the usual response is "good job". However if a woman does the exact same thing she gets a more negative response, people will think she is slutty etc...

NO ONE IS COMPLAINING!!! I MADE AN OBSERVATION! You are the one who had the complaint, you are the one who went home with blueballs and is asking why why why. You are the one who complains she teased your cock! The fact of the matter is that your above statement doesn't apply to this girl because you DIDN'T have sex with her, so she isn't a slut is she...or rather I will say she didn't play the slut with you. Fact is that she is in control of the circumstances not you, you say this is normal. Well then why are you bothered? She will act when, how and if she chooses. Not knowing how to seduce you will just have to wait. And just to clue you only in college or high school do other men think its cool to have sex with 10 women in a month. Most men would either think another man SHARING such a thing is either: lying or paying for it (sign that somethings wrong with him). Either way its not a show of virility as it would be at 19 or 20 as boys sit around a keg, its a sign that something is wrong. A woman wouldn't need to sleep with 10 men in a month unless she is a prostitute so its a little outside of normal experience to use the above as an example.

Chris: I do not know why we choose to govern ourselves this way and I do see the fallacy, in fact I had discussed this with friends a long time ago and am very aware of it, I just came to accept it.

Okay stop pretending as if you really care about the generalizations or double-standards that govern gender sexuality. The thread didn't address this at all but lets pretend you do care. You say:

"am willing to betcha a million dollars that if a woman goes on a date with 50 guys and offers sex every time, she will get laid at least 45 times. And most of the guys who say shit like "oh no I would never do that" are either lying or just insecure. I would argue that only a very small percentage of them would actually think its wrong and would hold themselves up to it, props for them I guess... Now, lets turn this around, if a man goes on a date with 50 women and offers sex everytime, he will get laid maybe like what? 8 times max? It is generally accepted that women chose when to have sex, while men just always wanna do it."

Ok Chris I am going to try this one more time: If you believe the above then why are you asking why she wouldnt have sex with you? Why? If she had sex with you you would have thought her a slut, right? DO YOU GET IT NOW!!! NO ONE IS COMPLAINING! ITS YOUR QUESTIONS AND MUSINGS THAT ARE ABSURD GIVEN WHAT YOU SAY YOU KNOW ABOUT MOTIVATION.

Chris:If a girl plays hard to get, men automatically like her and respect her more. I don't know why and I do not understand it myself, but I am a sucker for it and its really annoying. Its amazing just how many girls I have not gone for because they acted too desperate or easy to get, maybe there is something wrong with me, but I doubt it, as this happens with people all around me all the time. Unlike them though I admit it.

Okay Chris so she did the right thing. You think she did the right thing by denying you sex. SO AGAIN...WHY DO YOU ASK 'WHY DID SHE CHANGE HER MIND?' Why ask such an absurd question when you admit you would think of her as a 'slut' if she had. What is there to question? less even discuss? Unless of course you wanted to flaunt your situation which again I say is the response of a young man who isn't accustomed to such adventures. Its a scenerio Casanova would have thought a yawn so please don't go on about what 'most men' would do or think, you don't know what men would do, you are not there yet, you are still practicing and figuring it all out. This is not a put down simply an observation based on what you say and the circumstance you outlined. No need for a watson to collaborate.

Chris: If a girl plays hard to get, men automatically like her and respect her more. I don't know why and I do not understand it myself, but I am a sucker for it and its really annoying. Its amazing just how many girls I have not gone for because they acted too desperate or easy to get, maybe there is something wrong with me, but I doubt it, as this happens with people all around me all the time. Unlike them though I admit it.Thats what I meant by respecting her, she held herself up, and showed that maybe she wants to wait it out. She showed me that she just doesn't give it up for anyone and maybe there will be some more meaning to anything developing between us. I am not saying that sleeping with someone means nothing can develop, but I do know that sex can be much more emotional for some, and maybe they only want to share it with people they care about. That's all, and that's what made me "respect" her more, and its the reason why I would prefer keeping in touch with her than a girl I barely know who just puts out, whom I would just call to get laid here and there.

Has it occurred to you that perhaps this woman is a better gamester than yourself and has more experience? You ask her out, she gives you a bit of a nibble and then retreats and sends you home to nurse your balls. Now you are online discussing the little question marks running around your head, now you are positing questions answers to which you say you have. It seems as though she is,wittingly or unwittingly the seductress and you are the seduced. She is the one who is pulling your string and in control of the situation...not you! So either you can expect she will get bored because you are too easily managed, or she will obey the 'rules' and pull you into a long-term love relationship grabbing hold of you mind, heart and loins. Its a game, all seductions are games but you don't know that because you are just 'dating' you are unaware. And you have the nerve to imply she needs 'defending'. Ha!

Rules of seduction by Robert Greene:

A. approach indirectly
B. send mixed signals
C. Appear to be an object of desire

Looks as if she has you between B & C

Lucy, you don't give away the trademark secrets. You can't do that; you don't speak for the Club! :D

Oh TalkandJive have a heart! How could we sit here and watch the poor boy twisting in the wind like that.

I so could. And I'd need a cigarette afterwards!

Oh jesus: if Mike and Chris are representative of men then I'm handing in my resignation.

Mikey's Rant: Playing hard to get is one of the biggest turn offs for me. I know for a fact that if a woman really likes a man, she isn't going to make it that hard for him. She might be subtle about it but she won't play hard to get. I have better things to do with my time than chase a woman playing hard to get. I don't like the desparate ones either. But if they are somewhat busy with their life, the won't need to play hard to get. There are umpteen ways to 'play hard to get'; not returning phone calls when you are supposed to, showing up late for dates, sending mixed signals (heavily fliratious one minute, cold shoulder the next)...I could go on and on w/o even including the last minute 'I'm not ready' crap, on the list.

Typology of the Anti-Seducers by Robert Greene

"Anti-seducers come in many shapes and kinds, but almost all of them share a single attribute, the source of their repellence: insecurity. We are all insecure, and we suffer for it. Yet we are able to surmount these feelings at times; a seductive engagement can bring us out of our usual self-absorbtion, and to the degree that we seduce or are seduced, we feel charged and confident. Anti-seducers, however, are insecure to such a degree that they cannot be drawn into the seductive process. Their needs, their anxieties, their self-consciousness close them off. They interpret the slightest ambiguity on your part as a slight to their ego; they see the merest hint of withdrawal as a betrayal, and are likely to complain bitterly about it.
Anti-seducers repel, so be repelled-avoid them. Unfortunately, however, many anti-seducers cannot be detected as such at first glance. You must look for clues to their self-involvement and insecurity; perhaps they are ungenerous, or they argue with unusual tenacity, or are excessively judgemental."

THE ART OF SEDUCTION

I don't know why but I've overcome by a need to suppress my real beliefs and just answer in this way:


:eek:

You've changed.:bawl: I think I liked you better before.

i,like you much better now bells. years ago you were too wild.

Yes. I mellowed with age.

The walking frame does not allow for "wild".:bawl:

Chris:I was just wondering why she changed her mind. Are you done with making things more complicated than they really are?

This isn't complicated. We change our minds, sometimes for a variety of reasons, sometimes for no reason. It could be whim, it could be game (to make you want her more). It doesn't matter why she changed her mind. And its frankly amusing that that one little move on her part has your mind all twisted with question marks! Its a sign that you have been seduced. This isn't complicated either ask her out on a second date or not! Better yet, ask her out and ask her why yourself? But you would never do that would you. Haha! I am not suggesting you should either.

Well I mentioned in a previous post that we did end up talking about it, and she brought it up.

Chris:Oh I am so sorry Sherlock, I did not know I could not speak about this in the Free Thoughts sections of an internet forum. If you don't like frat house talk, then don't join the conversation. Its that simple.

Who said you couldn't or shouldnt bring it up? I was making an observation which is the right of anyone on an open forum. If you dont like the responses then keep the personal to yourself and pm a friend. ITS THAT SIMPLE!

You were making statements saying "real men dont go on public forums talking about this blablabla, this is frat talk" if you find the topic absurd don't take part in it is all I am saying.

Chris:What you are complaining about is not just with me, you are complaining about the general norm that if a man has sex on a first date, or if a man has sex with 10 women in a month, then people think he's cool and the usual response is "good job". However if a woman does the exact same thing she gets a more negative response, people will think she is slutty etc...

NO ONE IS COMPLAINING!!! I MADE AN OBSERVATION! You are the one who had the complaint, you are the one who went home with blueballs and is asking why why why. You are the one who complains she teased your cock! The fact of the matter is that your above statement doesn't apply to this girl because you DIDN'T have sex with her, so she isn't a slut is she...or rather I will say she didn't play the slut with you. Fact is that she is in control of the circumstances not you, you say this is normal. Well then why are you bothered? She will act when, how and if she chooses. Not knowing how to seduce you will just have to wait. And just to clue you only in college or high school do other men think its cool to have sex with 10 women in a month. Most men would either think another man SHARING such a thing is either: lying or paying for it (sign that somethings wrong with him). Either way its not a show of virility as it would be at 19 or 20 as boys sit around a keg, its a sign that something is wrong. A woman wouldn't need to sleep with 10 men in a month unless she is a prostitute so its a little outside of normal experience to use the above as an example.

Its just an example, and it proves a point. Now, for the 200th time, there's a difference between a woman saying no. And a woman making out with you, then leading you to her bed room, and as things start to heat up she says no.

Chris: I do not know why we choose to govern ourselves this way and I do see the fallacy, in fact I had discussed this with friends a long time ago and am very aware of it, I just came to accept it.

Okay stop pretending as if you really care about the generalizations or double-standards that govern gender sexuality. The thread didn't address this at all but lets pretend you do care. You say:

"am willing to betcha a million dollars that if a woman goes on a date with 50 guys and offers sex every time, she will get laid at least 45 times. And most of the guys who say shit like "oh no I would never do that" are either lying or just insecure. I would argue that only a very small percentage of them would actually think its wrong and would hold themselves up to it, props for them I guess... Now, lets turn this around, if a man goes on a date with 50 women and offers sex everytime, he will get laid maybe like what? 8 times max? It is generally accepted that women chose when to have sex, while men just always wanna do it."

Ok Chris I am going to try this one more time: If you believe the above then why are you asking why she wouldnt have sex with you? Why? If she had sex with you you would have thought her a slut, right? DO YOU GET IT NOW!!! NO ONE IS COMPLAINING! ITS YOUR QUESTIONS AND MUSINGS THAT ARE ABSURD GIVEN WHAT YOU SAY YOU KNOW ABOUT MOTIVATION.

Again, same argument, She led me to her bed and changed her mind right there. Theres a difference. I thought I made that clear...

Chris:If a girl plays hard to get, men automatically like her and respect her more. I don't know why and I do not understand it myself, but I am a sucker for it and its really annoying. Its amazing just how many girls I have not gone for because they acted too desperate or easy to get, maybe there is something wrong with me, but I doubt it, as this happens with people all around me all the time. Unlike them though I admit it.

Okay Chris so she did the right thing. You think she did the right thing by denying you sex. SO AGAIN...WHY DO YOU ASK 'WHY DID SHE CHANGE HER MIND?' Why ask such an absurd question when you admit you would think of her as a 'slut' if she had. What is there to question? less even discuss? Unless of course you wanted to flaunt your situation which again I say is the response of a young man who isn't accustomed to such adventures. Its a scenerio Casanova would have thought a yawn so please don't go on about what 'most men' would do or think, you don't know what men would do, you are not there yet, you are still practicing and figuring it all out. This is not a put down simply an observation based on what you say and the circumstance you outlined. No need for a watson to collaborate.

Once again. Theres a difference between a woman saying good night at her door and you kiss goodbye, and a woman who leads you in, offers drinks, holds your hand and leads you to her bed, and THEN changes her mind.

Chris: If a girl plays hard to get, men automatically like her and respect her more. I don't know why and I do not understand it myself, but I am a sucker for it and its really annoying. Its amazing just how many girls I have not gone for because they acted too desperate or easy to get, maybe there is something wrong with me, but I doubt it, as this happens with people all around me all the time. Unlike them though I admit it.Thats what I meant by respecting her, she held herself up, and showed that maybe she wants to wait it out. She showed me that she just doesn't give it up for anyone and maybe there will be some more meaning to anything developing between us. I am not saying that sleeping with someone means nothing can develop, but I do know that sex can be much more emotional for some, and maybe they only want to share it with people they care about. That's all, and that's what made me "respect" her more, and its the reason why I would prefer keeping in touch with her than a girl I barely know who just puts out, whom I would just call to get laid here and there.

Has it occurred to you that perhaps this woman is a better gamester than yourself and has more experience? You ask her out, she gives you a bit of a nibble and then retreats and sends you home to nurse your balls. Now you are online discussing the little question marks running around your head, now you are positing questions answers to which you say you have. It seems as though she is,wittingly or unwittingly the seductress and you are the seduced. She is the one who is pulling your string and in control of the situation...not you! So either you can expect she will get bored because you are too easily managed, or she will obey the 'rules' and pull you into a long-term love relationship grabbing hold of you mind, heart and loins. Its a game, all seductions are games but you don't know that because you are just 'dating' you are unaware. And you have the nerve to imply she needs 'defending'. Ha!

Rules of seduction by Robert Greene:

A. approach indirectly
B. send mixed signals
C. Appear to be an object of desire

Looks as if she has you between B & C

No, she had me at "don't take my bra off I just changed my mind".

There's a difference lucy, between saying no before anything happens, and saying no in the jist of it.

Lucy, you don't give away the trademark secrets. You can't do that; you don't speak for the Club! :D

Hardly a secret...


Oh TalkandJive have a heart! How could we sit here and watch the poor boy twisting in the wind like that.

Trust me I'm fine. I find this thread rather amusing at this point. Especially since we already went out again. :rolleyes:

We also found this all very amusing.

Ok man I got it. You are the best at everything, a true gentleman. And I am a scumbag 22 year old jerk off.

Thumbs up, you win. I hope this useless flame war significantly increased your self esteem.

Ah I get it. This is about your ego!

You can't understand that a woman would not want to have sex with you on your terms, every time.

So anyone that questions you, you label as judgmental, and having a superior attitude, when you should be questioning your own arrogance.

You got turned down. Deal with it. It happens, but you know what? When it does, you don't need to get out the big paintbrush, and ask 'Why do women do this?'. To ask such shows naivety, and rather a lack of respect for women in general. But then it appears that you were guilty of using, and objectifying women anyway.

Ah I get it. This is about your ego!

You are the one talking shit and being disrespectful. I don't think you understood that the purpose of my last post was simply implying that you should get out of this thread.

You can't understand that a woman would not want to have sex with you on your terms, every time.

Again, where does this come from? She said no in the process of it, that's what I did not understand. I was just curious and having a discussion.

So anyone that questions you, you label as judgmental, and having a superior attitude, when you should be questioning your own arrogance.

Not true, I just don't like to respond to those who act like they know it all. There were plenty of people who disagreed with my views and said so in a more respectful manner, you weren't one of them. You just threw this "what do you know you are 22" argument. Thats not questioning, thats just pointing the finger and being a douche bag.

You got turned down. Deal with it. It happens, but you know what? When it does, you don't need to get out the big paintbrush, and ask 'Why do women do this?'. To ask such shows naivety, and rather a lack of respect for women in general. But then it appears that you were guilty of using, and objectifying women anyway.

This is a public forum, who gives a crap. People can discuss whatever they want, don't feed me this horseshit.

How is it a lack of respect? Its just relationship and dating talk. Its not like I posted a picture of her with her name and address, for all you know this never happened. I don't see where the lack of respect part comes in. I don't think you see it either, you just enjoy pointing a finger.

This entire thread all you did was flame from start, while I responded to everything you said. You were unable to do so and gave me one line answers followed by you preaching about how great you are at every response.

Again, if you think I am so naive, disrespectful, selfish etc; while you are "a gentleman who brags about it"... Why do you bother arguing with me? Just ignore this whole thing and move on, oh great one.

Typology of the Anti-Seducers by Robert Greene

"Anti-seducers come in many shapes and kinds, but almost all of them share a single attribute, the source of their repellence: insecurity. We are all insecure, and we suffer for it. Yet we are able to surmount these feelings at times; a seductive engagement can bring us out of our usual self-absorbtion, and to the degree that we seduce or are seduced, we feel charged and confident. Anti-seducers, however, are insecure to such a degree that they cannot be drawn into the seductive process. Their needs, their anxieties, their self-consciousness close them off. They interpret the slightest ambiguity on your part as a slight to their ego; they see the merest hint of withdrawal as a betrayal, and are likely to complain bitterly about it.
Anti-seducers repel, so be repelled-avoid them. Unfortunately, however, many anti-seducers cannot be detected as such at first glance. You must look for clues to their self-involvement and insecurity; perhaps they are ungenerous, or they argue with unusual tenacity, or are excessively judgemental."

THE ART OF SEDUCTION
Naughty. I'm in there. Ouch.

I do take exception, though, at some of Greene's conclusions.
He doesn't address the man who might think too much, preferring instead to make a case based on negative reasoning.

e.g. "Anti-seducers repel, so be repelled-avoid them.".
Now here is a (presumably) successful man in the world of seduction - therefore any who aren't as successful are simply not as able as he to seduce.. or be seduced. Note the mocking air of this passage?
He's saying "Screw them. Actually, don't. You should be with someone like me." And to a certain extent, he is absolutely right. Evolution, survival of the fittest, all that.

But it sounds to me, based on this one passage (note: I have not read this book, only the quoted passage) that this is exactly the same thing as the guy who walks up to your girlfriend in a nightclub and says "Hey, ditch this loser and come out with me, baby".

I want to note at this point that most of the more successful "relationships" (Bullshit. I haven't ever had one worth talking about) I've had have started after I've sized up/been attracted (same thing, in my book) to a woman from a distance, waited for a suitable social occasion and then acted upon it.
In other words, we've fucked liked bunnies on the first "date" and I've decided I liked her enough to stay with her for a while. I like girls who do the same thing. And I hold no grudges against those who decide, like I might, that it isn't worth it.
Every post in this thread is a resume. Yes? The curriculum vitae. Does the title of any thread on this board actually matter? OT.

I'll say more after I hear the responses of you two, specifically, to this.
(Hey. Don't talk to those guys. Talk to me.) *chuckle*

Muersalt: He doesn't address the man who might think too much, preferring instead to make a case based on negative reasoning.

But that's the point, the man who thinks too much is unlikely to enter into a seduction. Seduction is about fun creating an aura around yourself and another person, how can you have fun and enter a game if you are thinking too much trying to protect yourself at every move? Its the game of coquetry not chess, its the art of the romantic dalliance not warfare. I don't think Greene is being mocking he's just saying don't waste time attempting to seduce someone who already repels.

He does outline some funny labels for the anti-seducers: The suffocators, the moralizers, the tightwads, the bumblers, the windbags, the reactors and the vulgarians.

If you think about it you also reject those who are repellent, we all do. Seduction is about charm. You add "that this is exactly the same thing as the guy who walks up to your girlfriend in a nightclub and says "Hey, ditch this loser and come out with me, baby". I don't see how you come to that conclusion, a line like that isn't chaming its repelling, its too direct, to seduce is to disarm.

But that's the point, the man who thinks too much is unlikely to enter into a seduction. Seduction is about fun creating an aura around yourself and another person, how can you have fun and enter a game if you are thinking too much trying to protect yourself at every move?
Bitch.
I know.
I miss it.
Circumstances.
Fuck us all up, sometimes.
Working on it.
(really.)


Its the game of coquetry not chess, its the art of the romantic dalliance not warfare. I don't think Greene is being mocking he's just saying don't waste time attempting to seduce someone who already repels.
He's a male. He's being mocking... just in a way you sympathize with.
You girls sometimes under estimate the male psyche. Pro quarterback, gun midfielder, fast bowler, mercenary... author... guy who knows what all these things really are and says so.
Same thing.


He does outline some funny labels for the anti-seducers: The suffocators, the moralizers, the tightwads, the bumblers, the windbags, the reactors and the vulgarians.
Don't we all, though, in an attempt to eliminate the competition?
Some are better at that than others. In this medium, it's all rhetoric. IRL, it's combined with presence.
Cerebral girl, non-cerebral girl.... what's the difference?

Sometimes scratching your nose means you have an itchy nose.
Sometimes a question mark is actually a question.


If you think about it you also reject those who are repellent, we all do. Seduction is about charm. You add "that this is exactly the same thing as the guy who walks up to your girlfriend in a nightclub and says "Hey, ditch this loser and come out with me, baby". I don't see how you come to that conclusion, a line like that isn't chaming its repelling, its too direct, to seduce is to disarm.
But it works, sometimes. Doesn't it.
It works when you are already bored with the one you're with, and are looking for an alternative.

It works if you are not you, perhaps?

Relax Meursalt it will come when you are relaxed.

Greene is simply illustrating what we all unconsciously do unawares and its not a 'male' thing, since many of the best seducers are women.

M: Don't we all, though, in an attempt to eliminate the competition?

Don't we all what? This isn't about competition its about seduction. Its not about getting so and so from so and so. Its about entering someones spirit. For some reason I don't think we are talking about the same thing but I could be wrong.

M:But it works, sometimes. Doesn't it.
It works when you are already bored with the one you're with, and are looking for an alternative.

Now I know we aren't on the same page! What works sometimes? Be exact please. Are you saying you are only seduced when you are already in relationship? I don't understand what you're trying to express exactly.

M: It works if you are not you, perhaps?

No, I disagree with that statement. Pretense and artifice isn't charming, it gets sniffed out!

I'll get back to you tomorrow, Lucy.
One or two things I'll concede, one or two I won't.

Which is why we're here, non?

If not tomorrow, in a few days. Heading out to Gunn Point again shortly. I have a photo of Ophiolite. You'll love it, I think.

(and therein might lie a demonstration)

If you think about it you also reject those who are repellent, we all do. Seduction is about charm. You add "that this is exactly the same thing as the guy who walks up to your girlfriend in a nightclub and says "Hey, ditch this loser and come out with me, baby". I don't see how you come to that conclusion, a line like that isn't chaming its repelling, its too direct, to seduce is to disarm.

All this talk about charm and seduction... you'd think Greene was a female with all those romantic notions. I'd rather go out with some confident guy than to go home with some pansy who promised to make sweet love to me. Sometimes, whether or not we women want to admit it, we just want to get fucked. We want excitment more than we want to feel loved. That's why the nice guys finish last.

It's all about the sex. If you show the woman you want it, it will score you points. Here's where women screw it up though... they make it all romantic, candlelit dinners and warm soft kisses. Men don't care about that shit but get on your knees and give them mindblowing fellatio and he'll be entranced for life. That's the power. It's not about the spirit... unless of course you swallow too.

Well liebling then you and Greene are on the same page. Who said its always sweet? Seduction is excitement. Getting fucked is another matter entirely, seduction is about what goes on in the head as it trickles down in between the legs.. A sweaty alpha in a bar will suffice for a fuck but it can be a bit boring as well if its just about jab jab and lick lick. Showing a woman that you 'want it' is desire and all women respond to desire but I don't see how that is any different from said seduction.

How can you have excitement if there's no build up? No tension?

We love rogues but no one needs a book to know that.

I do disagree that the power lies on how well we suck on a dick, any ole bitch can suck on a dick and I hear its better if she has no teeth. The power dear lies elsewhere unless of course all you simply want is for him to release his jizm, zip up and head straight for the door.

Plenty of build up in your own mind. I don't need a man to seduce me, I do fine increasing that tension on my own. Based of course on the bulge I can spot and the look of hunger I can see, sure... but he may not even be directing this at me and it still turns me on. I don't need the touchy feely garbage, but I'm pretty pragmatic and we are all animals. Why do we need them to be the aggressor part of it?

It's women that confuse the game and make it all about themselves. I don't need seduction to feel confident and secure, and Greene puts way too much weight on the ego and emotion in this circumstance. It's about the winning play, and not the insignificant plays in between. A guy knows how many times he's not gotten laid, more than he remembers the times he did... except when it's a particularly good game.

I'm treated like a queen... not because I hold out, or because I demand to be treated that way, but because I recognize need and fufill it to the best of my ability. I always bring my A game, and I don't always get in it for the win. I don't expect to be seduced, I am receptive enough to just know or I take it myself because I have the need. I don't understand why we have to confuse all of it with an emotional massage.

What I am saying is that seduction is intentional... and it's not always needed. Some people like it, but only because of their own ego.

Who said we need men to be the aggessors? What makes you think seduction is something men only do to women? Where do you get the idea that seduction is about giving someone the feeling of confidence and security? Actually I would say the opposite, its about keeping someone off-kilter. Security makes people take you for granted.

The winning play you speak of is made by a series of moves not just one unless you are playing with someone who's too easily wooed. You know, the ones whom you have at hello.

Liebling: I'm treated like a queen... not because I hold out, or because I demand to be treated that way, but because I recognize need and fufill it to the best of my ability

How is that any different from this: "The right victims are those whom you can fill a void...They are often isolated or unhappy, or can easily be made so for the completely contented person is almost impossible to seduce" Greene

There is always an emotional message, even if its a swift kick in the loins or a grab and shag.

Liebling: What I am saying is that seduction is intentional... and it's not always needed. Some people like it, but only because of their own ego.

Well this I agree with, yes seduction is intentional but the best seducers are those where the knack is innate, always catching something in their net even when they aren't fishing. As far as the ego goes I am not sure if you mean those who feel the need to constantly seduce like a don juan or those who are always ready to swoon.

I do disagree that the power lies on how well we suck on a dick, any ole bitch can suck on a dick and I hear its better if she has no teeth. The power dear lies elsewhere unless of course all you simply want is for him to release his jizm, zip up and head straight for the door.

I would yank out all my teeth if I believed this were true.

Yes, any old bitch can suck a dick. Plenty even get paid for it, but do it because you enjoy it, and it's a whole other ball game. It's about the skill and passion you put into your craft that would keep him coming back. If you fool yourself into believing most men will stick around without the sex, try not having it for a few months and see how much his attitude changes. The nice guys will stay and make you wish you had left, the exciting ones won't.

Do it because you enjoy it goes without saying, there is no worse experience than having someone perform without passion or pleasure...yet still I will keep my teeth thank you.

You are reading things that aren't there if you heard that men stick around without sex or that this is a welcome tactic. No one here has referred to sexless relations but that doesn't mean its wise to throw yourself on his loins after hello how are you. You have to feel these things unless of course you simply want a shag and a cigarette.

Who said we need men to be the aggessors? What makes you think seduction is something men only do to women? Where do you get the idea that seduction is about giving someone the feeling of confidence and security? Actually I would say the opposite, its about keeping someone off-kilter. Security makes people take you for granted.

By them, I meant the other side... no matter the gender since gender is relative to interest.



How is that any different from this: "The right victims are those whom you can fill a void...They are often isolated or unhappy, or can easily be made so for the completely contented person is almost impossible to seduce" Greene

Ah, because I don't look for victims, or people who need a void filled. Because for those people, you can give until you bleed and they will still have a void. I don't like victims, victims are pathetic.


Well this I agree with, yes seduction is intentional but the best seducers are those where the knack is innate, always catching something in their net even when they aren't fishing. As far as the ego goes I am not sure if you mean those who feel the need to constantly seduce like a don juan or those who are always ready to swoon.

Seduction is intentional, but it can be incidental with some people. I was seduced once by someone who did not mean to be charming or seductive, and the game was all in my head. That kind of power is mythical though, and too often people who have that kind of presence are just filled with lies and intent and it spoils the game all together.

What other side? The seducer or the seduced?

When you speak of their need you make them sound like your victims. If you are intentionally seducing and they don't see you coming then they are indeed your victim.

Just to clarify for those who are reading, we can't confuse wanting the person with wanting their sex.

Do it because you enjoy it goes without saying, there is no worse experience than having someone perform without passion or pleasure...yet still I will keep my teeth thank you.

You are reading things that aren't there if you heard that men stick around without sex or that this is a welcome tactic. No one here has referred to sexless relations but that doesn't mean its wise to throw yourself on his loins after hello how are you. You have to feel these things unless of course you simply want a shag and a cigarette.

Ask a man about the dead fish they've slept with. I know plenty who are still married to those dead fish... why? Because they are nice guys... awww.

You say that as if there is something inherently wrong with the shag and the cigarette. I've had coyote ugly days I'm not proud of, but it fufilled a want at the time.

Plenty of people in this thread (before you and the Wolf came in to make it interesting) have alluded to the idea that women can, and should hold out simply because it should be played that way. That you shouldn't hop in for the pokey if you feel like it because it strips you of your power. Sometimes, a lay is just a lay and it's okay to not be interested past that.

Liebling: You say that as if there is something inherently wrong with the shag and the cigarette. I've had coyote ugly days I'm not proud of, but it fufilled a want at the time.

Absolutely not! I am not suggesting wearing your white gloves, I have no victorian notions of romance and sex.

If you read through the post carefully you'll notice that the value of holding out are the notions of little boys who need that in order to feel safe with whatever girl they are chasing. If the girl is after said all american frat boy then yes she is absolutely correct to withhold sex until of course she is seduced by a greater power. Why? Because if she doesn't then she will have to put up with their ridiculous judgements. Those views are all in context if you go back and read them. There is no point in frightening a boy with unadulterated sexual lust if he is only going to feel threatened, transfer his fear and call out slut from the pulpit, it would be wasted on him, better to string em out. So in this case the girl made the right move.

You are the one talking shit and being disrespectful. I don't think you understood that the purpose of my last post was simply implying that you should get out of this thread.

It's a public forum, as you recognise later on in your rant. I can say what I want as long as I don't break forum rules. You don't have to like what I post. So suck it up.


Again, where does this come from? She said no in the process of it, that's what I did not understand.

"In the process of it" ? I asked you how far you got and you didn't answer me. Nonetheless, you could both be butt naked, and have each other's genitals in hand, that doesn't mean you should expect penetrative sex.


Not true, I just don't like to respond to those who act like they know it all.

Where have I said I know it all? That's a straw man you are stuffing there.


There were plenty of people who disagreed with my views and said so in a more respectful manner, you weren't one of them.

I don't respect you, so why would I give you the false impression on a forum that I do?


You just threw this "what do you know you are 22" argument. Thats not questioning, thats just pointing the finger and being a douche bag.

Let's back track, I found it funny that you generalise about all women based on one event on your life, that you still count a relationship you had when you were 15, and you are just 22. Deal with it. You are young, and have made an arse of yourself on a public forum. If you find the topic of having your sexual advances repulsed sensitive, then don't post, it's your choice.


This is a public forum, who gives a crap. People can discuss whatever they want, don't feed me this horseshit.

Exactly, put me on ignore if you don't like it.


How is it a lack of respect? Its just relationship and dating talk. Its not like I posted a picture of her with her name and address, for all you know this never happened.

I suspect parts of it may not have happened, but that is a separate discussion.


This entire thread all you did was flame from start, while I responded to everything you said.

No, you never responded to me about how far you got before being repelled.


You were unable to do so and gave me one line answers followed by you preaching about how great you are at every response.

Quote me. But I know you can't, because I haven't said 'I am great' here.


Again, if you think I am so naive, disrespectful, selfish etc; while you are "a gentleman who brags about it"... Why do you bother arguing with me? Just ignore this whole thing and move on, oh great one.

You may be getting the idea that many and various people, bar Mike the Misogynist, find your attitude from naive, to offensive. If you open yourself up to criticism, don't be surprised if you receive it. It's really that simple.

All this talk about charm and seduction... you'd think Greene was a female with all those romantic notions. I'd rather go out with some confident guy than to go home with some pansy who promised to make sweet love to me. Sometimes, whether or not we women want to admit it, we just want to get fucked. We want excitment more than we want to feel loved. That's why the nice guys finish last.
BINGO!!!
I was watching an episode of Mind of Mencia the other day and Carlos was talking to the audience. Here was his monologue.
Carlos: So I get women coming up to me asking me (in his mocking female whiny voice): "Carlos, why are men such dicks?" and I say "Because that's the only type of guy you ladies will FUCK!" (the audience roars with applause.

He even goes so far to ask a few ladies in the audience if they are more attracted to nice guys or bad boys. All of them said bad boys; nice guys are too boring.
It never fails to perplex me how women vehemently preach they want a nice guy, yet almost inevitably start dating a jerk/jackass.
IMO, ladies would get a lot more respect if they would just grow up and admit it; kinda like the same principle as ladies refusing to admit that they fart. Please.


It's all about the sex. If you show the woman you want it, it will score you points. Here's where women screw it up though... they make it all romantic, candlelit dinners and warm soft kisses. Men don't care about that shit but get on your knees and give them mindblowing fellatio and he'll be entranced for life. That's the power. It's not about the spirit... unless of course you swallow too.
Lieb, I don't understand the bold statement. I mean the guy is showing the girl he wants it by merely asking her out.

Yes and no. Too often, guys date because they just want to get laid and anyone will do, they don't want to be alone or because everyone expects them to. Girls can pick up on that too. A lot of times, men will settle for second best and it definitely comes across in their body language.

Yes and no. Too often, guys date because they just want to get laid and anyone will do, they don't want to be alone or because everyone expects them to.
They probably just want to get laid because they know relationships can be a pain in the ass; they don't want all the strings attached (including the one on the tampon LOL) that comes along with sex.



Girls can pick up on that too.
True. Too bad they can't pick up on whether or not a guy will beat them.
But if one practices and observes, anyone can learn to pickup on subtle body language cues.
I watch the body language of the women I talk to quite acutely. Just to see how they react.
I've had three women that I work with, all at different stores assume the exact same posture when talking to me.
I'm not sure how to take it because their posture contains mixed signals.



A lot of times, men will settle for second best and it definitely comes across in their body language.
My guess is that they settle for second best because the best just requires entirely too much effort (and it often does I'm afraid).
Relationships are fairly high maintenance and require a substantial amount of effort.

Liebling: You say that as if there is something inherently wrong with the shag and the cigarette. I've had coyote ugly days I'm not proud of, but it fufilled a want at the time.

Absolutely not! I am not suggesting wearing your white gloves, I have no victorian notions of romance and sex.

If you read through the post carefully you'll notice that the value of holding out are the notions of little boys who need that in order to feel safe with whatever girl they are chasing. If the girl is after said all american frat boy then yes she is absolutely correct to withhold sex until of course she is seduced by a greater power. Why? Because if she doesn't then she will have to put up with their ridiculous judgements. Those views are all in context if you go back and read them. There is no point in frightening a boy with unadulterated sexual lust if he is only going to feel threatened, transfer his fear and call out slut from the pulpit, it would be wasted on him, better to string em out. So in this case the girl made the right move.

So you're a tease?
Either way, frat boys are going to be calling you names.

The real question is; why the fuck are you dating frat boys? You like the smell of their daddy's money?

You expect sex on the first date. Real life doesn't play out like a porno, people don't just meet and fuck.

If you're an old, unattractive geek who dwells on science forums, sure. But I've done the "just meet and fuck". It's actually not that hard.



I've no idea, being a gentleman I'd often offer to walk girls home, in fact, I once turned down a girl who propositioned me in a nightclub, because I'd already promised to walk a female friend home.

But I guess there's the difference between Chris and I; I am a gentleman.

Wow! You are so cool! You were once propositioned in a nightclub!
I now understand your mistaken view that "people don't just meet and fuck."


And just because they might not be broken doesn't mean they are completely well.

I don't think I've ever met anyone who was completely well. Everyone's got cracks. Do you know anyone who's completely well?


I have no problem with a woman waiting. What I do have a problem with is when the woman waits until the last second and just up and changes her mind. There is not a fuckin man on this board (a 'real' one if you will) that will admit to enjoying when a woman just up and changes her mind.

Except for Chris, in the OP, and multiple times through out. He's a "sucker" for that sort of behavior, as he says.


And yes, if a woman ever up and does something like that to me, I will not return her phone calls. It's not the fact that she wouldn't sleep with me, it never has been. It's the fact that she blindsided him with 'I'm not ready yet' AFTER she invited him in for drinks and what not.

You ever wonder if your loneliness is due to you being too intolerant to live with, and not the other way around?

....You ever wonder if your loneliness is due to you being too intolerant to live with, and not the other way around?

He's not lonely. He has dogs.
And as soon as he's done changing them to his specifications, they will tolerate him quite well.

"In the process of it" ? I asked you how far you got and you didn't answer me. Nonetheless, you could both be butt naked, and have each other's genitals in hand, that doesn't mean you should expect penetrative sex.

We were in bed making out and I in the process of taking cloths off sorry I don't feel like getting into explicit details.

Where have I said I know it all? That's a straw man you are stuffing there.

I never said you claimed you did, I said you act like it.

I don't respect you, so why would I give you the false impression on a forum that I do?

Because if you want your point to get through in an argument its easier to do so in a respectful manner.

Let's back track, I found it funny that you generalise about all women based on one event on your life, that you still count a relationship you had when you were 15, and you are just 22. Deal with it. You are young, and have made an arse of yourself on a public forum. If you find the topic of having your sexual advances repulsed sensitive, then don't post, it's your choice.

Are you retarded or completely ignorant of everything I say? I thought I made it clear you misread what I meant. I've had plenty of dates and relationships in the past 7 years what I was saying was I never had a 7 year long relationship..

Exactly, put me on ignore if you don't like it.

I would like to but I find your posts interesting in other discussions.

Quote me. But I know you can't, because I haven't said 'I am great' here.

"I am a true gentleman, and you are a naive 22 year old." Has been the essence of half your posts. Don't take things out of context.

You may be getting the idea that many and various people, bar Mike the Misogynist, find your attitude from naive, to offensive. If you open yourself up to criticism, don't be surprised if you receive it. It's really that simple.

There's a difference between criticism and disrespect.



both genitals in hand, butt naked, and I don't expect sex at that point? lol. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.



Exactly, put me on ignore if you don't like it.

I think I'd just ignore what you say in here from now on.

He's not lonely. He has dogs.
And as soon as he's done changing them to his specifications, they will tolerate him quite well.

That's what he says, anyway.

You ever wonder if your loneliness is due to you being too intolerant to live with, and not the other way around?
Thanks for the news flash Captain Obvious.
You ever wonder if your knee jerk reaction statements like this is due to you not reading my previous posts, throughout several threads that very well indicate why I am by myself? I've already mentioned that I am set in my ways and if they don't like it, there are plenty of way more tolerant degenerates, such as yourself that will put up with their stuff.



He's not lonely. He has dogs.
And as soon as he's done changing them to his specifications, they will tolerate him quite well.
Yep. I'd rather have dogs than a fat, unattractive spouse of which I could do no better than.
As far as changing them to my specifications...that statement right there shows what an ignorant c### you portray yourself to be.
I train my dogs pretty much the same way Cesar Millan does. I'm pretty sure you would be the only one to say that he 'changes dogs to his specifications'.

I think she was talking about the lipstick and skirts you put on your dogs before you fuck 'em.

If you're an old, unattractive geek who dwells on science forums, sure. But I've done the "just meet and fuck". It's actually not that hard.

I know it's not hard, you just have to lower your standards and bingo, you're fucking.


Wow! You are so cool! You were once propositioned in a nightclub!
I now understand your mistaken view that "people don't just meet and fuck."

That was half the story, but I guess because you have the attention span of a goldfish, thanks to all the porno you consume, the rationale is not worth repeating.

There's a difference between criticism and disrespect.

And I both disrespect and criticise you. What don't you get about that? NEWS FLASH! I think you are pathetic. I TOTALLY DISRESPECT YOU.

OK, got it? good.



both genitals in hand, butt naked, and I don't expect sex at that point? lol. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Merely because you lack life experience, It may come to you yet.



I think I'd just ignore what you say in here from now on.

Hoorah, and me and the rest of the sane people can have a good laugh behind your back!

I know it's not hard, you just have to lower your standards and bingo, you're fucking.

Then wtf are you blathering on about, old man? How you can't even get pussy after you lower your standards? There are dumb sluts, and there are ugly sluts. Guess you must be stuck with dumb ugly ones, huh.


That was half the story, but I guess because you have the attention span of a goldfish, thanks to all the porno you consume, the rationale is not worth repeating.

What's the other half of the story? That you were so excited it stuck with you for the past 3 decades and you had to share it with the internet?

Daimon: A woman seeking what she can never have, finding ways to create self-esteem in her chosen lifestyle, believing that her experiencing things is an indication of a deeper understanding, and her insistence that there's purity to be found somewhere, out there, is a hint that there's something wrong.

Oh what would you know about it Greek? Purity is for surgical equipment and newborns! I have all I need and more. One doesn't create self-esteem you either have it or you don't, you are either content in a chosen lifestyle or you are not. A little childish of you I must say, especially when you seem to have neglected the context of this discussion. This isn't about me...nor is it about you and you don't understand wolfy at all (far less sea shells and butterflies). I never expected you to be petty. Pity. All in all I wish you luck. Take care of you and yours. Ciao!

Roman: So you're a tease? The real question is; why the fuck are you dating frat boys? You like the smell of their daddy's money?

I don't need to tease. I have my own money and you should learn to read through a thread. The frat girl and frat boy were the subject of the discussion.

....Yep. I'd rather have dogs than a fat, unattractive spouse of which I could do no better than.
As far as changing them to my specifications...that statement right there shows what an ignorant c### you portray yourself to be.
I train my dogs pretty much the same way Cesar Millan does. I'm pretty sure you would be the only one to say that he 'changes dogs to his specifications'.

<sigh> why do you always sink to name calling.:shrug: You are so flipping hysterical sometimes.

I was talking about how you mutilate your dogs while telling yourself it makes them perform better. You know, surgically alter them. You control everything about them because you can't control....never mind.

Like you said, you choose to be alone. The sluts and the teases of the world thank you.

....Trust me I'm fine. I find this thread rather amusing at this point. Especially since we already went out again. :rolleyes:


and.....

and.....

...and im taking it slow, we just went to the beach. To be honest I realized there are some things about her I don't really like, shes not over her ex cop boyfriend and she gets text messages every 5 minutes...

Moving on...

Call me crazy but when you are out on a date, esp in the beginning you should shut OFF your phone. I think that it is rude for someone to be talking or texting with other people when you are out with someone. That would really annoy me if someone did that.

Call me crazy but when you are out on a date, esp in the beginning you should shut OFF your phone. I think that it is rude for someone to be talking or texting with other people when you are out with someone. That would really annoy me if someone did that.

I know exactly what you mean. The proper thing to do I think is to just walk away and say you need a minute if the call is absolutely necessary.

Then wtf are you blathering on about, old man? How you can't even get pussy after you lower your standards? There are dumb sluts, and there are ugly sluts. Guess you must be stuck with dumb ugly ones, huh.



What's the other half of the story? That you were so excited it stuck with you for the past 3 decades and you had to share it with the internet?

Misses on both counts, want to play again, or scared you might fail, again?

Phlog I don't think Roman really read through the thread. Some of what he said seemed...well off.