hello. i am a university student, desperate for intellectual inspiration from those around me. i dream for the day when a collegue will turn to me and sincerely ponder something abstract, evident of actual thought and consideration. maybe it was my curse for entering a field that requires no thought, only memorization and self-study; granted, i figured university would be a place where one might relate to another in terms of ideas and intellect, rather than a cage for parrots spewing quotes from much music. perhaps i am at the wrong school; perhaps you of whom i seek are simply camoflauged, as numb and uninspired as i.

where are you hiding?

If your education is as mind-numbing and dreary as that, what will you career be like?
Scary thought.

What are you going to school for and why?

medicine. i want to help people beyond where we lovingly call home.

Do you think you career will be more fulfilling than your educational endeavor?
You will likely still be taking the ideas, proven methods and breakthroughs of others and applying them to real-life situations, rather than hypothetical ones.
With the exception of a very precious few, there is no room for original thought in practicing medicine.
Do you think the satisfaction of "helping others" will suffice as a payoff for the droll "work" of practicing medicine, while the promise of such is not enough to tip the balance in your education?
(I am not being argumentative and trying to claim it will not, just asking and trying to challenge you, as requested)

Also, why did you chose medicine as your vehicle for that goal (or ideal, I suppose)?
I never had an urge to be in medicine (though I have leaned towards nearly every other field in my life). I just never understood what draws people into it other than expectations (family), money and a sense of power and prestige.
Why is it medicine for you?

i certainly hope i reach the end point in order to achieve some sense of contribution towards a greater good. medicine seemed a more direct path to helping people (by literally helping people), though my decision was made years ago. many of my collegues unfortunately are not like-minded in the sense of why they've chosen medicine; it frightens me that some of these people might one day be your family doctor, aiming instead for profit rather than for a reward beyond material compensation. perhaps i feel hopeless because of this revelation.

bianca, you might find teaching more rewarding. you can help other and yet you can teach something like literature or philosophy, which seems like something that would fit in to the "relate to another in terms of ideas and intellect" framework

I still don't understand why medicine, but I don't have to. Do you think it was the right decision?

Do you not think you are making that contribution toward greater good now, simply by chosing this career path?
Yet it is still not enough, because the work you are doing is not mentally and creatively challenging and stimulating enough for you?
What if you went to fed people at a soup kitchen on weekends? Do you think your dissatisfaction with the mentally and creatively stifling environment you work in would be assuaged then? What makes you think practicing medicine will assuage it? It is just as creatively stifling of an environment as med school is, no?

I'm afraid my background is as an artist so I don't know if any of the lessons I've learned can be translated to something like medicine but I think you underestimate how important the "parrot stage" of learning can be.

Early in my instruction I was told, "you can't break the rules until you understand them". It took me 5 years to really get that. There is a lot of wisdom in "the rules" and there's also a lot of crap, but it's hard to decide which is which until you learn it all. Art (like medicine) has a bumpy history filled with idiots and genius'... it really helps to wrap your head around both sides before you start cutting your own path.

again, this is a view from an artists education so I'm not sure how applicable it is to your situation.

i've been to peru and tanzania on projects related to health and well-being; i like working in the health field in that respect. there is an a local aids clinic i help out with too, which is the highlight of my week. i guess i'm only at a crossroads with my leisure time

I always found my personal intellectual and spiritual connections just whereever. Sometimes youll find someone in school, sometimes at work, but usually just out in the world. Forums like this are good for that sometimes. Sometimes there isnt anyone or anything at all besides yourself. Ive had long periods of time like that with no-one. I found I could stimulate *ahem* my own self in those ways and thats such a great place to come to for me. Its good to be able to make progress in those things regardless. Its great having outlets to connect with too. Thats always a challenge. Its difficult but at least its worthwhile.Even if you only find one person you can communicate with, sometimes that means the world. Maybe that challenge can contrast your schooling.

"i've been to peru and tanzania on projects related to health and well-being; i like working in the health field in that respect"


All of the help to the poorer countries for 100 years and they still are poorer countries. Whatever America is doing to help the poor isn't working to well for they are still poor, perhaps even poorer than before for now there are more people there. I am not trying to be cynical but it seems we are wasting our time going to other countries when America needs help, or am I wrong? If so then why is over 50 percent of New Orleans poor? I just wonder how many other cities are like that and need good help also?

Cosmic,
Isn't there a difference between helping an abstract idea, like a country, and a concrete reality, such as a dying child? You can talk about doing things for a country's "own good" or whatever, but it's not a misbehaving child you're dealing with. There are real people, suffering.

say good-bye to your thread bianca.

I suspect it'll be about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin by tomorrow. Possibly, it will be about how much wood a woodchuck can indeed chuck. Either way, if you don't redirect the discussion it'll be lost forever.

don't be too unhappy though, this is the fate of most threads here. Oddly, thats why I like this place.

i figured university would be a place where one might relate to another in terms of ideas and intellect, rather than a cage for parrots spewing quotes from much music....

Well, there y'go. I believe we've hit the nail cleanly on the head here, no further exploration necessary.

You're not seeing where you actually are, just looking for what you hoped you'd find and looking only for that.

But consider your actual situation here - your in a University populated exclusively by talking parrots.

Y'know, some people would actually pay good money to trot off to somewhere like that for a day out and experience the unfeasibly large talking parrots first hand. For most of us it would be like visiting Euro Disney, without the rodents.

Just imagine the excited, breathless anticipation small children the world over would experience when their beloved parents unexpectedly announce the day before "Hey Kids, guess who's going to Talking Parrot University tomorrow?!"

.. Of course, genuinely loving parents would actually proceed to follow through and actually take their children with them the following day, and not just sod off together and leave them in the paws of the neighbours dog for a fortnight whilst they're off gallivanting around having a rare old time with all those parrots that talk, but that's not the point.

I'd kill to just spend five seconds with a fabulous, unfeasibly large parrot that could talk.

Actually, I have killed just on the off chance the opportunity would present itself. Every night I lay awake in bed with an emptiness so deep inside me, just hoping that one day, just one, I could finally get to... to just... just touch one of them and perhaps, maybe later, finding out for myself if they really do taste like chicken just like everyone says.

But for me, and millions like me, its all just a hopeless dream.

And yet there you are. With them. Swathed in the downy presence of their feathery goodness....

>sigh!<

Face it, your just going through a dull patch. It'll pick up in a year or two, trust me... ;)

It'll pick up in a year or two, trust me... ;)
Yes.
And then you can be insane like Mr Anonymous. You have SO MUCH to look forward to. :D

I'm not insane, I'm a Piscies!

How very dare you!

such is the way. things always change and are always moving, but i suspect thats why we have a memory.

say good-bye to your thread bianca.

I suspect it'll be about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin by tomorrow. Possibly, it will be about how much wood a woodchuck can indeed chuck. Either way, if you don't redirect the discussion it'll be lost forever.

don't be too unhappy though, this is the fate of most threads here. Oddly, thats why I like this place.

Bianca,


1. If you are striving to become a doctor in order to "help people and towards a greater good", then you are going to be a very bad doctor.

Medicine is a tough job, and unless you are strictly professional and scientific -- which in practice means that you won't cling to any other standards than those of experimental science -- you'll be unhappy.

Being a doctor is a job, and that's how you should treat it. If the meaning of your life depends on your job, be sure that you will be living your life on the side track. You might never have to realize this, but you'll realize it as soon as you lose your job or become unable to do it. The meaning of your life should exist separately from your job.


2.

hello. i am a university student, desperate for intellectual inspiration from those around me.

Why are you looking for inspiration FROM OTHERS?
Give it yourself!


i dream for the day when a collegue will turn to me and sincerely ponder something abstract, evident of actual thought and consideration.

Ouch. This will happen once you get off your high horse, and you be the one who turns to your colleague "and sincerely ponder something abstract, evident of actual thought and consideration".
(Sorry. I swear I was looking very hard for a nicer way to put this, but I couldn't find any.)


maybe it was my curse for entering a field that requires no thought, only memorization and self-study; granted, i figured university would be a place where one might relate to another in terms of ideas and intellect, rather than a cage for parrots spewing quotes from much music.

Are you interesting? What have you got to offer?


perhaps you of whom i seek are simply camoflauged, as numb and uninspired as i.

Be careful. You are talking to people here, not machines.


where are you hiding?

You can't see us across the mountain of your ego.


Woman, you will first have to help yourself before you can even begin to help others.

Bianca : You must take the good with the bad. Somebody made a comment about how important the boring stuff was. I agree. Being a doctor isnt just about 'wanting' to help people have a better quality of life through your work, you actually have to put in the effort. If study was a breeze dont you think everyone would become a doctor given the very large salaries that can be earnt?
No! Being a doctor requires 'patience' and dedication. Water said you've got to be self-inspired. It seems to me that the money your fellow students are seeking is proving to be a better motivator than you 'wanting to help people.'. Don't think you are selling out by wanting to earn decent money for being good at what you do. After all why shouldnt you seek a better quality of life and be proud of the fruit of your labours? Ideals are great but pragmatism is what gets the job done.

Good luck with your future. Don't let despondancy rule you.

peace

c20

i see you

It's important to you to be doing your part to help others. i'm sure that you do this in your everyday life - it's just who you are, and you feel that training as a doctor will give you special powers to be able to help people "better". Like a kid in a candy store, an artist with a God's power of creation, or a serial murderer in control of a nuclear silo - you are striving for that place that will allow you to be all you can be.

to those who think that doctors are just machines.
Being a doctor is about more than just facts and figures, treating patients like numbers. It's about helping people with your superpowers, compassion is a HUGE part of being a good doctor (or at least, that's what the GOOD doctors will tell you). Bianca you want to be a doctor because it seems like the perfect extention of your natural urge to help people, yes?

maybe it was my curse for entering a field that requires no thought, only memorization and self-study;
to quell your mind Bianca:
Your field is "learning". That is your current field. Your field right now is not compassion. This must be very frustrating and it's good of you to be able to actively vent your frustration in this by telling/ranting to people, i hope you don't give up looking for someone else in your classes who shares your frustrations. You'll do well if you can find that group of likeminded people - don't give up finding them.

So, you're tired of memorising, it's frustrating not being able to quickly rush into where you want to be, but remember you are going to become a Doctor. Doctors have superpowers, they must learn them. But you don't learn howto rip someone's heart outof their chest on your first day at karate practice - that makes all the whitebelt kids sad, but it's the way of things. There is wisdom behind the otherwise frustrating teaching technique.

This theme is brought out in a lot of popular storys throughout our culture - themes of power ethics. When you are learning something so powerful as medicine, you must learn respect for it. You must be made to know that if you make mistakes you can hurt people - this respect for accurate medical knowledge, and fear of the pain you will cause people if you don't properly harness your abilitys, keeping this respect in mind will get you through your classes.

I have a gut feeling that this is the way they teach up and comming doctors "responsability".

I'm sorry to be rude if i'm preaching to the choir by saying that.
So, from what i've talked about above, there is kindof an aspect of "sacredness" to your classes.


ps: are you planning on joining Médecins Sans Frontières / Doctors Without Borders ?

Cosmic,
Isn't there a difference between helping an abstract idea, like a country, and a concrete reality, such as a dying child? You can talk about doing things for a country's "own good" or whatever, but it's not a misbehaving child you're dealing with. There are real people, suffering.


I agree so let us help our sick and dying children here in America first so that we don't have any sick and dying children. What good is it to travel to another country and tell them we are going to help when they turn around and can see the poor people in America that need help. They think that we aren't even doing a good job here let alone 5,000 miles away. Keep the Americans heatlthy first so tyhat they can survive for without someone here in America to help then there's not going to be America to help eleswhere.

to comment on poverty in america versus poverty elsewhere:
yes, poverty does exist in america, and canada for that matter. prioritizing which needs to be fixed first is not the issue at hand, i find; it is more about the fixing. it seems counterintuitive to travel elsewhere and help when there is much need here, but how likely is it that poverty in north america will be eradicated by the end of our lives? i chose not to wait.

on the side, poverty in america and poverty in africa cannot be compared; they are different cultures, different landscapes and they face different problems, not simply problems that are 'worse' than what the other faces.

hmm, i do not recall tying 'abstract' with my goals.

and i would not ignore an actual talking parrot. that would be quite amusing.

"If you are striving to become a doctor in order to "help people and towards a greater good", then you are going to be a very bad doctor."
is that not what a doctor should strive for?

and whoever mentioned me trying to find inspiration from others, you are right, i shouldn't be :). no offense, but some people do come off as machines, programmed for repetition. i do not think it a bad thing, to have machines (what would society be without structure?), but how about having more people around instead? i believe my mountain of an ego will be the only thing that will save me from becoming a machine.

i am aiming to join medicines sans frontiers.

thank you for your comments, both supportive and critical. this is fun

Bianca,


It is primary that a doctor be a professional in his field, meaning: it is primary that a doctor be a professional scientist.

No matter what a good person you are, no matter what humanity and communication skills you posses: they do not make up for a lack of professional knowledge.

I know doctors who are very good people and who are good to talk to, but they are bad physicians.
Also, some doctors are overwhelmed by their "concern for the patient" and so they prescribe meds or treatment that aren't necessary, or are wrong.

As a doctor, it is only after you have a good professional grounding that you can meaningfully act on your sense of humanity, and not the other way around.

It is not like you are going to have any actual personal concern for the people you treat. Your aim is to treat them, and hopefully never see them again.

water,
I think it as fallacy (though seeming widelt held) that you can not be both a good doctor and a compassionate doctor involved with and deeply invested in the well-being of your patient.
I think. in fact, it is impossioble to be a good doctor AND keep your distance.
It is certainly much harder on YOU as a doctor, but I always thought that's why doctors get paid so much. Because they are sacrificing a great deal for their field.

One Raven,


I didn't say being a good doctor and a compassionate doctor is mutually exclusive! Far from that. I'm saying that one's humanity won't make up for one's lack of professional skills.

It is my experience that it is those who are true professionals in their field, that also have the chance to meaningfully act on their humanity.

but I always thought that's why doctors get paid so much. Because they are sacrificing a great deal for their field.

So are we scientists, but we never see any bling bling.

i never knew why that was. i guess doctors are like a 'quick fix' in comparisson to the eventual (no less important) contribution of scientists.

Are you bianca?

The doctor is responsible for a patients well being. A mistake could kill the patient. I would say a doctor has the final decision as to whether to employ the scientists cure's or not therefore the scientist doesn't bear the same risk. The scientist is not going to be held responsible if the patient has a bad reaction and dies.

peace

c20

Are you bianca?

i am bianca.

Did you know the president is looking for you?

oh really? he will have to wait. i am attending to my talking parrot.

The doctor is responsible for a patients well being. A mistake could kill the patient. I would say a doctor has the final decision as to whether to employ the scientists cure's or not therefore the scientist doesn't bear the same risk. The scientist is not going to be held responsible if the patient has a bad reaction and dies.

peace

c20

A busdriver is responsible for other peoples lives too...

where are their bling bling

What about vets?

They just tend animals.

still...bling bling...

One Raven,


I didn't say being a good doctor and a compassionate doctor is mutually exclusive! Far from that. I'm saying that one's humanity won't make up for one's lack of professional skills.
True, but wasn't the above sentiment expressed directly toward her comment that she wants to make a difference in the world and people's lives?

1. If you are striving to become a doctor in order to "help people and towards a greater good", then you are going to be a very bad doctor.

Medicine is a tough job, and unless you are strictly professional and scientific -- which in practice means that you won't cling to any other standards than those of experimental science -- you'll be unhappy.

If you are not implying the old adage about the need for professional distance and so on, why would you say such a thing?
Why would you assume that someone who gets into medicine for philanthropic reasons would neceesarily neglect their studies or otherwise be a poor doctor?
I don;t understand the correlation you seem to be drawing.

A busdriver is responsible for other peoples lives too...

where are their bling bling

What about vets?

They just tend animals.

still...bling bling...

Fair enough point I guess. Change careers. Get your hands inside a horses anus for double bling bling :D

c20

c20H25N3o,


The doctor is responsible for a patients well being.

If the doctor is a physician, then he is responsible only for the patient's PHYSICAL wellbeing, but not also for the patient's emotional and mental wellbeing.


* * *


one_raven,


I didn't say being a good doctor and a compassionate doctor is mutually exclusive! Far from that. I'm saying that one's humanity won't make up for one's lack of professional skills.

True, but wasn't the above sentiment expressed directly toward her comment that she wants to make a difference in the world and people's lives?

(You really should watch Scrubs. It's quite thought-provoking.)

If you think that as a doctor, your job is to change people, to "make a difference in their lives and in the world", then you are going to burn out soon upon constantly seeing how people do not change easily, or not at all, no matter what you do as a physician. Or, seeing the people relapse and not taking care of themselves will make you frustrated and eventually indifferent.

If your motivation for being a doctor (or any profession dealing with people, for that matter) is "to do good", then this motivation will constantly be frustrated and never fulfilled, or fulfilled only in a small percent.

Saying, "But if in all my career I truly help only one single person, then I have achieved my goal" is a nice, but empty message to yourself, it is sand that you are shoveling into your own eyes.

Face it, the difference that you can make in the world in your profession is minute, not worth mentioning.

(Unless you are a president of a big company or a mafia boss or some such hot shot.)


1. If you are striving to become a doctor in order to "help people and towards a greater good", then you are going to be a very bad doctor.

Medicine is a tough job, and unless you are strictly professional and scientific -- which in practice means that you won't cling to any other standards than those of experimental science -- you'll be unhappy.

If you are not implying the old adage about the need for professional distance and so on, why would you say such a thing?

Why would you assume that someone who gets into medicine for philanthropic reasons would neceesarily neglect their studies or otherwise be a poor doctor?
I don;t understand the correlation you seem to be drawing.

I'm not saying that people who get into medicine for philantrophic reasons necessarily neglect their studies and be a poor doctor because of their philantrophism.
(It is true though that sometimes, philantrophism can blind doctors.)

My point is simply that philanthropic reasons are *not* the right motivation for taking up medicine.
If you have a talent for scientific thinking, experimentation, dealing with dirty things, are precise and patient -- then medicine might be a thing for you.

One should do what one has talent for, if possible.
One should not do what one finds noble or has some high-flying moral grounds for.


And before anyone wonders: There is no such thing as "talent for dealing with people". There are either only various expressions of dependency, control and manipulation issues.
Or a person simply has good communication skills -- but this is *general*, such a person may be a lawyer, writer, doctor, teacher, journalist, and such.

Fair enough point I guess. Change careers. Get your hands inside a horses anus for double bling bling :D

c20

I wish I could change careers. But I have been around medical students. I wouldn't want to mix with those people.
There is definitely no intellectual inspiration to be gathered from them, as apparently the original poster discovered.

If you like science one solution could be to do some research as a doctor. Don't go to the standard medical lab, instead I would recommend to take a more fundamental course by choosing a developmental biology group. More intellectual stimulation there.

But after a while you will discover the negative aspects of that.

[QUOTE=water]c20H25N3o,




If the doctor is a physician, then he is responsible only for the patient's PHYSICAL wellbeing, but not also for the patient's emotional and mental wellbeing.



actually, a patient could feel ill but be devoid of disease (like chronic fatigue syndrome). if a patient is depressed or stressed, that too affects their physical well-being in terms of their will to take care of themselves. i believe emotional and mental well-being are as equal in importance as physical well-being


to anyone: do you know of any think-tanks needing a freelance thinker?

If the doctor is a physician, then he is responsible only for the patient's PHYSICAL wellbeing, but not also for the patient's emotional and mental wellbeing.

actually, a patient could feel ill but be devoid of disease (like chronic fatigue syndrome). if a patient is depressed or stressed, that too affects their physical well-being in terms of their will to take care of themselves. i believe emotional and mental well-being are as equal in importance as physical well-being

Bianca, you'll really need to think sharper and read more precisely.

Bianca, you'll really need to think sharper and read more precisely.

what have i missed?

They are trying to define semantics where i (for one) see none. By stating that a physician - by her very TITLE - should be so professionally focused on her patients' tangible physical bodily functions that she should be entirely unconcerned with aspects of their mental wellbeing.
As if the 2 fields can be seperated.

to which i disagree.

A physician is not under obligation to tell you to "stfu and see a councelor", although in today's world they may. I've met doctors (or was that "physicians"?) who have felt it nessesary to also advertise themselves as councelors - perhaps such a double title IS more accurate in the modern definition of a "doctor".
But at one time in history a doctor would not have had to assume to do so, as the definition was commonly accepted as being all encompassing.

But as you can see from the disagreement occuring in this very thread: not all would be doctors think the advantages of such empathetic distance outweighs the disadvantages. Must humanity and/or empathy really be trained outof our doctors? I'll have you know that this too is a question some physicians ask in the mental health industry itself - as neither is it immune from the "take a number and get lost" modern mantra.

Bianca,


I fail to see how your previous response has anything to do with what I said.
What does a physician have to do with the treatment of the patient's mental and emotional problems? Apart from sending the patient to the according doctor, that is.

I'll just wish you good luck with your medicine career, both practical and theoritical.

dear victor e: thank you
dear raven one: thank you too
dear water: yes, i understand that 'physician' implies physical health; what i am trying to introduce is the debate over the evolving definition of health, which directly affects what a doctor is or is not responsible for. historically, doctors treated ailments that were at that time acute. nowadays, ailments are becoming more widespread, from chronic illnesses to mental illnesses of which citizens argue must be addressed by those responsible for health care (including doctors). doctors do argue that they SHOULD only look after diagnosible disease pertaining to one's physiology; however, i believe that practice must evolve with the problem, and the problem has indeed shifted with the advancement of north american society to include such things as mental and emotional well-being. i'm not arguing for a complete remake of the title to include only empathetic practice devoid of sound medical examination. i agree that doctors need knowledge, but not without compassion.

Doctors used to treat patients.
Now it seems they treat diseases (and, even more often, treat symptoms, but that a whole other argument).
Medicine, as opposed to common modern belief, is NOT science. Medicine is an art form based on science and an all-consuming way of life. That's how it SHOULD be, anyway. That's how it USED TO be.
Your doctor used to know your family history because he or she knew your family.
Now, you see your corporate-sponsored lackey, who has fifteen minutes to spare you so you can give him a list of symptoms for him to cross reference against his PDR and give you a prescription. Your Primary Care Provider only cares about your total health and welfare as far as it will not get him sued. He will squeeze as many patients as he can in his eight-hour day (if he works those long hours).
These "scientists" running through patients on an assembly line is the medical industry's equivalent to McDonalds.
This is where doctors who do not get into the field with the express purpose and ideal of "doing good" get you.
As you said, water, becoming personally involved and emotionally vested in patients can burn a doctor out. You know what, though, those are the poeple that do not have what it takes to be a doctor. They shoud be scientists and researchers.

The ONLY valid reasons for taking up medicine are philanthropic ones.

doctors used to bleed people too. Hell, they used to cut hair by day and doctor at night... the good old days weren't so good.

The good new days are far from perfect as well but medicine is a science, at least it is a science if any area of study can be given that name. It's the treatment part (i guess you'd call it applied medicine) that is more of an art.

Bianca-
The clinicians I work with must treat a myriad of issues outside of their specialties. They are extremly educated and have knowledge which starts with the pathology of disease, diagnosis, treatment of the primary disease to the treatment of the problems that are often complications of the disease. They treat psych. ssues, clinical issues, and even social issues regarding the families of the patients. They dedicated their lives to treatment of their patients. They are upset when patients expire and happy for small advances against disease. I believe you are correct in thinking that along with the knowledge you must have compassion because I sure as heck would not go to some physician that treated me like a number. Not only are they clinicians but scientists/researchers all in one. In the academic/medical community they go hand in hand. Learn the basic clinical knowledge once you start doing rotations and rounds and interact with the patients I have a feeling you will be able to apply the compassion with the clinical knowledge to make one heck of a physician! You may also want to find an institution which multi-disciplinary approaches are used. Anyway best of luck with your studies, it is not an easy road but is worthwhile if you choose to try to help people.

doctors used to bleed people too. Hell, they used to cut hair by day and doctor at night... the good old days weren't so good.
I am quite obviously speaking about a very specific change in physician's behavior and philosophy, so this is non sequitur at best and an absurd statement to make.
Yes, medicine HAS advanced quite a bit from the days of drilling holes in heads to relieve headaches, where do you see me arguing against that?
(by the way, modern doctors still bleed people, actually, and medicinal leeches are quite a big business, but I digress.)

The good new days are far from perfect as well but medicine is a science, at least it is a science if any area of study can be given that name. It's the treatment part (i guess you'd call it applied medicine) that is more of an art.
What I am attempting to elucidate is my view that the seperation of the "science" and the "treatment" should not be seperated in the physician profession.
Research is a science.
Pharmacology is a science.
Toxicology is a science.
There are many sciences related to the field of medicine, but a physician who treats the job as a science will not be a very good physician at all, and certainly not one I would want as MY primary care provider.
This also comes in reply to water's comment:
What does a physician have to do with the treatment of the patient's mental and emotional problems? Apart from sending the patient to the according doctor, that is.
A physician needs to be a "holistic healer" for lack of a better term. The physician needs to know the patient, because many problems are physiological, and without knowing the psychology of the patient (to some level, at least) the physician will be inept at best to come to a well-informed diagnosis.
Bed side manner is a lot more than simply being polite and personable. It is a significant part of the job of practicing medicine, and is being lost rapidly.

I'm sure that you can find extracurriculum organizations within your school that delve into abstract thought and creativity. The field of medicine should be enough in itself to satisfy your desire for "consideration" of others. You could always try some type of extreme sport, like skydiving or bungee jumping to satisfy excitement. Martial arts are great at enhancing motivation and concentration abilities.

hmm, i've always wanted to go skydiving..

Spread your wings and fly! The group that I was jumping with all agreed that it was even better than sex.

What I am attempting to elucidate is my view that the seperation of the "science" and the "treatment" should not be seperated in the physician profession.

The science and treatement really do have to be seperated to a degree, not because the seperation is a good thing but simply because no one is smart enough to be both "all encompassing researcher" and "practioner" at the same time. Today, it'd likely take an entire human lifetime just to learn everything known about cancer alone, forget the other million illnesses and diseases.

General physicians (your family doctor) deal with the "small" issues but if you get something serious, they have to pass you onto other experts. In the olde days he/she would have treated you wether they knew anything or not.

If humans lived to be 300 years old or we divised a way to learn and retain huge amounts of info in a short period of time I'd agree that the science and treatment should be done by the same person. Unfortunately, the science of "medicine" (and every other science for that matter) is just too massive for any one person.

hmm, i've always wanted to go skydiving..

I recommend skydiving, bungee jumping wasn't as impressive as I'd expected. If you do skydive, make sure your first try is tandem because it'll allow the highest jump for a n00b.

Alone, your first jump is like 1500 feet, tandem you get a 10,000 (at least) foot jump.

where are you hiding?
What makes you think you're not just as dumb as the rest of them?
If pseudo-intellectual discussion is what you're looking for, there's lots to be found.
If real intellectual discussion is what you are looking for, try and offer some insight. Real insight.
Good luck, and welcome to Sciforums.

A doctor is a healer. A true healer understands the human body, and what the human body needs for peak physical health. Notice the word "needs". The only foods that should go into the human body are the foods that the human body "needs". The healer understands exactly what the human body needs in order to function at full physical health/vitality. Instead, doctors do not tend to function properly as true healers. True healers are not quick fixers. A true healer ensures that the patients understands what "needs" to be done for full health. This includes emotion, eating habits, and physical activity. The quick fixer tends to makes sure all the face value stuff is up to par. As long as the blood work is fine, and the patient is properly medicated for whatever ailment, that is all that counts to the quick fixer. Quick fixers ususally do not understand what it really means to be truly healthy. They only understand what it means to be functioning.

What makes you think you're not just as dumb as the rest of them?

aww, you wrecked it. now he/she knows we're all morons.

btw - "them"? that's pretty rich.

Bianca,

take everything you see/read/hear with a grain of salt, ESPECIALLY if it's in a forum. My view of the world is, "everyone is stupid, including myself".

Then again, what do I know?

Dear Bianca: What seperates you from other postings on sciforums is that you seem to be examining and thinking about the comments posted in stride - even when some might seem ridiculous ot totally out-of-line to you. That's very admirable!

You originally state that "I need to sincerely ponder something abstract, evident of actual thought and consideration."

Once you said that, "Do you know of any think-tank needing a freelance thinker?" I'm afraid that I don't really know what you mean by this? Are you a writer too.

I definitely do not see the need to seek out any medical physician attention for what you are concerned about, and think that these suggestions were a bit off base and irrational.

I, among other things, made the suggestion of skydivng as away to add more excitement and diversity to your continuing medical studies that you feel are a bit boring to you. Skydiving is probably safer than crossing the street. First you have to go through at least a four-to-five hour preperatory class to learn the basics. Your first jump is in tandem with your instructor at abou 1,500 feet. You pull the chord on your parachute, if by some rare chance that would fail to open the an automatic emergency parachute would eject at 1,000 feet, and all along your instructor would be by your side to help. Normally you go through three of these assisted jumps before you graduate to a higher elevation: upon seeing that you are more and more secure. It's a great experience; in fact the group that I jumped with claimed that it was more exciting than sex.

But that's just a suggestion. You have lots of outlets of creativity that you can do: go hiking and/or camping ina remote region of a nearby park, explore the wilderness; take a short jaunt to your local art museum and along with appreciating the beauty of the art, try to think about what the artist had in mind to paint such a picture; splurge with a one-day exciting trip to a circus, or your city's annual county fair; adopt a pet (but make sure you know beforehand what you're getting into); take a long drive into the country and appreciate the beauty of nature; stay awake at night, lie down in a lounge chair and contemplate the existence and conformation of the beautiful stars above; let your imagination run wild; look at the clouds during the day and try to interpret them by imaging them as animals or other abstract thoughts; scan the weekend newspaper and see if a movie might be of interest to see; or, best of all, come on over and take my dog for a walk! I guarantee you that she will give you some excitement: she always chalenges me!

so far my only outlet for creativity has been a frolick in the bedroom. i will fling myself from an airplane sometime this summer, even if it means using an emergency exit (kidding, for those who are not familiar with my humour). imagine the thoughts that will run through your mind in a free fall back to earth. tell me, did it offer any epiphanies?

is there such thing as a person lacking insight? or is insight masked by insecurity? sometimes i wonder whether i am intuitive of a situation, or if i had heard it from somewhere and had forgotten its origin. memory is maleable, after all.

ps. morons are those with one-tracked minds. i think the term moron refers to a transition state, rather than a being, simply because it does not take much to derail oneself from a particular track; only effort and interest. therefore, by angrily claiming that my life is spent mingling with morons, i will become a moron. i could very well have been a moron while writing my original post! and now i am not by admitting to my ignorance. moron! no longer a moron! what a concept.

NB: I am looking to communicate with persons interested in Applied Sciences. No specific discipline or level of skill, knowledge or "formal applicability" is sought.
Q: Is there any part of this forum, in any sub section that is devoted to what I call "real world" or .. in terms of applying science, "know how", native skill or may in any way subscribe to "belt and suspender" "nuts and bolts" "hardball" and-or "
""" make stuff go """ thinking.

Anyone wish to converse in this manner?

Much thanks for kindred or other,

JH