I have a lot of rants coming out of me today. I hope they are cohesive.

Ok, this is my main reason that I choose to, at this point in my life and any foreseable future, turn away from all organized relgion.

Whenever a catastrophe happens religious people that survive walk away and say things like this "God was with me that day, that is all I can say, I thank him everday for saving me." It can go on spewing things like "he has a plan for my life..." but ill just leave it at that.

Now this REALLY gets my goat. How can these people have the absolute NERVE and arogance to say such a thing, as if God chose to save that one person out of however many that died (a good example is the wtc buildings coming down. anyone that lived and talked about it on the news said this, yet all those few thousands of people died).

It goes further than this. People, especially us Americans, somehow equate our riches and luxury with GODS BLESSSINGS. Holy crap, this gets me going. Walk into darn near any church and you will hear someone say this. What the hell did America do to deserve the special attention and blessings of God, people do you really beleive we are some how special (morally or spiritually?), I mean comeon. And then the question comes, so all those people that are suffering or starving deserve it? All those people that died in the wtc deserved it (otherwise he would not have saved that one person who was being watched by god, instead god would have saved everyone).

I think that about covers it. To me this is just another example of the delusions the church has been propagating for centuries. And perhaps it could even be tied to the idea that religion is used to supress the masses, cause according to the above logic, God put me in this life as a wealthy person, therefor it is right for me to be wealthy.

God rewards hard work, because hard work is its own reward:)

edit: Title edited to make people that missed the point actual read it, and for people that ignore my words because they confuse what I say for real angst.

Not all religion are like that.

Name one that isn't.

Christians may be the main culprit of this, but even the act of saying that you have chosen the right religion and everyone else is wrong has some arrogance.

Woah, woah, woah...woah. Steady on. Even though I 100% agree with you (at least someone will), but didn't "God" tell Osama Bin Laden to fly those planes into the (I'm sorry if this offends people) the two biggest targets in the world.

I think that American Patriotism has get the better of you yanks. You go too far and think you're special in some way. Anyway, weren't there people there who are from a different country, i.e, England who died. It's not just the States that is saying all this.

The thing that gets me is that everyone is tip-toeing around violence and destruction now. Even in the Simpsons (not Fox's fault, for once, but the channels who air it), when Kent Brockman won the lottery, they didn't say my favourite line "Tragic accident, many people killed....goodbye".
Everyone is so damn afraid of their own shadow.

I say Kudos to the new Delta Force game which is set in Afghanistan. They haven't avoid the subject at all.

Isn't it funny that all over the world (before WTC), terrorists were bombing stuff, killing people, etc. And only when the States get attacked personally, the prez goes "Thats it, its wup ass time". America have been sticking there nose into stuff for ages (mainly political) and when something actually happens to them, they can't take it.
Now, I'm not sying those people in the WTC deserved it, far from it, I'm saying that the US Government only gets their thumb out of their ass when it affects them.
Plus, I think Dubya is looking for another term and is trying to get public support.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, it wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, mainly the US Government officials. PS, great thread.

Originally posted by Teg
Name one that isn't.

Christians may be the main culprit of this, but even the act of saying that you have chosen the right religion and everyone else is wrong has some arrogance.

Easy. Buhddism.

Steady on. Even though I 100% agree with you (at least someone will), but didn't "God" tell Osama Bin Laden to fly those planes into the (I'm sorry if this offends people) the two biggest targets in the world.
I think that American Patriotism has get the better of you yanks. You go too far and think you're special in some way. Anyway, weren't there people there who are from a different country, i.e, England who died. It's not just the States that is saying all this.
where did that come from?

No one attacked America, it was just an example of the religious mentality I am talking about. And no one spoke directly of violence or anything, all I was trying to talk about was how religious people come out unscathed or rich or whatever and someone believe it is a blessing from god when the HUGE portion of the population did not recieve this blessing, it just sounds like pride and arrogance to me, does anyone actually beleive themselves to be that good or deserving or whatever.

Joe, ok so lets say that some religions do not do this, so what? How does that apply to when THESE people, who are a huge majority, do indeed do it. It doesn't piss you off?

Was it not eh Japanese that fought in world war two under the auspices of the protection of a deity? These are Buddhists right?

They may preach pacifism, but their actions say otherwise. Just by choosing the religion they maintain that arrogance.

Originally posted by Teg
Was it not eh Japanese that fought in world war two under the auspices of the protection of a deity?


No NO No NO. Asian people believe in spirits and deities. That absolutely doesn't mean they are buhddist.


These are Buddhists right?


No


They may preach pacifism, but their actions say otherwise. Just by choosing the religion they maintain that arrogance.
Wrong. They don't preach pacifism. Pacifism is consistent with buhddist logic but they don't preach pacifism. Chinese monks in ancient days will kick your butts if their backs are against the wall.

How much do you know about buhddism? If you know absolutely nothing about it, I suggest you shut up or embarrase yourself otherwise.

I'm sorry, I got a bit carried away. What do you mean 'No one attacked America'. I saw it happen. It was an act of war. The First World War started because of less than that (some guy got shot, end of story).

Teg is right you know.

People believe instinctly that they are better than everyone else. They say god saved them, but god must have started the whole event so he tried to kill them. They are seeing it all backwards. So, yes, I agree with you 100%

What do you mean 'No one attacked America'. I saw it happen. It was an act of war.
I meant no one in THE THREAD attacked america...as in verbally. It sounded like you were defending it from some verbal assualt. Just confusion no biggie.

People believe instinctly that they are better than everyone else. They say god saved them, but god must have started the whole event so he tried to kill them. They are seeing it all backwards. So, yes, I agree with you 100%
Interesting spin on things, I like it.
here's what the christian response would be "god didnt do it, humans and sin did it"
but didn't god allow it?

I misunderstood your 'attack' bit. Sorry. I'm not defending America. I'm not in any place to.

Also, thanks.

Originally posted by Joeman


Easy. Buhddism.


Ok how about one that actually worships a type of God.

If god was all powerful, he would have stopped it from happening, wouldn't he. But he didn't, so he in fact sealed their fates.

To clear up some issues, and to use less deconstructive language, I attempted to change the title of this thread to

"when christianity and similar relgions annoy me "


I can't do that now so I will just say, that is now the title so DEAL WITH IT:)


It appears Joe missed the point, so I assume others also did. I feel this title would clear up some things, that this is not an critique on ALL religions(or religious peoples), just the incredibly pervasive western ones (I cannot speak for Eastern religions because I have not been around it very much, so I am sorry if I say religion and don't specify which ones).

The title also changed because I am attempting to do away with my negative 'tude. I first noticed habits of mine that other people do and found it to be really annoying (ending a post with flames, such as grow up or ass or whatever. this can also probably be applied to beginning of posts).

There I hope the world (and this message board) is a little bit happier place to live now.

sorry peeps.

WTF, you've certainly changed your tune.

lotuseatsvipers, you have NO understanding of Christianity.

It is NOT the believe of Chrsitianity that God controls our day to day affairs. People who say that God Blesed them(i.e. Rappers at award shows), are just self-absorbed, and have no real comprehension of what they are speaking on.

God may intervine if you pray, but only if it would help you grow spiritually.

It is NOT the believe of Chrsitianity that God controls our day to day affairs. People who say that God Blesed them(i.e. Rappers at award shows), are just self-absorbed, and have no real comprehension of what they are speaking on.
I have a very good understanding of Christianity, you on the other hand have a very bad understanding of the point of this thread.

You are telling me (as a Christian, if you are one?) that when you have survived through a very dangerous situation, that you did not at first thank God for saving you. It is a very natural Christian response, and that was what the thread was attempting to comment on.

And perhaps you too have thanked God for being born in a rich country where you live and have the 'blessing' to sit on your ass and chat on this forum.

I have no idea who you are, so you may do none of these things, but CHRISTIANS DO INDEED DO THEM, real christians too, not your 'fake' Christians you commented on (and in fact the huge majority of the Christian and theist population do this, I'll do a study later this month to prove that;)).

I do feel blessed indeed to be here in such afluence, but not blessed by god. A god that blesses me, who never in his life did anything to deserve such a thing, but did not bless someone in africa starving to death with aids but is probably a better person, is NO god of mine.

I hope this sums up the thread well enough so that you may understand it.

edit: And you if are a Christian who believes god does not deal in day to day things, then why do you worship this god that has no real effect on your life? Of course I already know the best answer to this, and I don't feel its a good one, but thats ok, maybe you'll say something different.

GOTTA TRY AND STAY POSI! ARGHHHH:eek:

No NO No NO. Asian people believe in spirits and deities. That absolutely doesn't mean they are buhddist.
Asian people are the primary factor in the composition of the worlds Buhddists. Thai, Japanese, Chinese, etc. These are your Buddhists.
Wrong. They don't preach pacifism. Pacifism is consistent with buhddist logic but they don't preach pacifism. Chinese monks in ancient days will kick your butts if their backs are against the wall.

How much do you know about buhddism? If you know absolutely nothing about it, I suggest you shut up or embarrase yourself otherwise.
I can see that you have a limited understanding of the cave-dwelling monks.

Here is a source for some real information about Buddhism:
http://beliefnet.com/index/index_10001.html

Reevaluate your assertions. They lack a basis in the real world.

i think that the problem lies not in the basic idea of the religion christiannity, but in all the things that have been put on top of it since, or the relligion have been put on top of.
In scandinavia christiannity was forced on top of a population that consisted of pagans.
a lot of that heritage stil exist. we still use a pagan name for Xmas.
and i think that lot of that mentallyty stil exist.
and on top of that it was a version of christiannity that through a 1000 years had been fitted so it suited the ruling classes in rome and konstatinoble.

its not the basic ellements of "be good to people" thing that is the most prevalent, its all the other shit.

I am not big on religion as such but the "be good to people" idea is good
And there are stil people that find the essens

That was a widespread practice of the church. They integrated the pagan holidays of tree-day and a couple others into Christian holidays.

The be good to others is a universal concept. Religion definitely has no monopoly on that.

The Catholic church may be the greatest offender and Christians in general are pretty aggressive in their tactics to convert the rest of us. Basically any given religion can be found to have motivations in a ruling class suppressing its population. The Egyptians, Sumerians, and Greeks all had the same Government/Religious relationship. The relationships persist. Every leader has a religious advisor. Every leader invokes their religion. That is the nature of the beast.

youre absolutly right

religion have tendency to be a means to a personal end or a self-justifying tool, and not the self (and world) improving element it should be.

(fuck i sound like oprah)

"GAWWWWWWWWWWD BLESS YOU!"

Originally posted by lotuseatsvipers
To clear up some issues, and to use less deconstructive language, I attempted to change the title of this thread to

"when christianity and similar relgions annoy me "



Fine by me Lotus...

There are plenty of things in organized religion that annoy me on a grand scale.

For instance, I do not like those hypocritical, overblown, self-indulgent, preach-to-the-choir, prancing, fat-cat, cash-grubbing, mansion-dwelling, religion-pandering, truth-trashing, soul-sucking televangelists any more than you do.

As for people who say "Thank God for..." and "God blessed me with..." or "God protected me..." etc. I think in some cases the sentiments are genuine, some are cases of narcissistic self-indulgence, and sometimes... well, in the words of John Lennon... "Whatever gets you through the night..." ;)

-Mike

As for people who say "Thank God for..." and "God blessed me with..." or "God protected me..." etc. I think in some cases the sentiments are genuine, some are cases of narcissistic self-indulgence, and sometimes... well, in the words of John Lennon... "Whatever gets you through the night..."
Of course its geniune, 'religious' people are oddly BOLD enough and arrogant enough to assume God gave them a special place on earth for no reason at all.

Let me point you back to one of my previous posts:
I do feel blessed indeed to be here in such afluence, but not blessed by god. A god that blesses me, who never in his life did anything to deserve such a thing, but did not bless someone in africa starving to death with aids but is probably a better person, is NO god of mine.

Hey Lotus...etc....

I am with you.......you sound like me......I want to KILL when I hear people say....."it was God who did not allow more people to get killed on 9-11" A-Holes........

God has no control over anything......it is expected for US to control....God (who ever the creator is)

Wants us to take life by the horns, do fr ourselves....etc...I have so much to say......but no time right now.....

Originally posted by lotuseatsvipers
To clear up some issues, and to use less deconstructive language, I attempted to change the title of this thread to

"when christianity and similar relgions annoy me "


I can't do that now so I will just say, that is now the title so DEAL WITH IT:)


It appears Joe missed the point, so I assume others also did. I feel this title would clear up some things, that this is not an critique on ALL religions(or religious peoples), just the incredibly pervasive western ones (I cannot speak for Eastern religions because I have not been around it very much, so I am sorry if I say religion and don't specify which ones).

The title also changed because I am attempting to do away with my negative 'tude. I first noticed habits of mine that other people do and found it to be really annoying (ending a post with flames, such as grow up or ass or whatever. this can also probably be applied to beginning of posts).

There I hope the world (and this message board) is a little bit happier place to live now.

sorry peeps.


Hey Lotus,


People say "God was with me..." or "God protected me..." because it gets them through. Plain and simple.

Celebrities say it mostly because they are self-centered.

Now don't get me wrong, Religion sometimes gets under my skin too. For instance, I can't stand those soul-sucking, fancy-suit-wearing, cash-gubbing, preach-to-the-choir televangelists any more than you can! They do more harm than good!

-Mike

Lotus - somewhere down the line in Arts... you can find a thread where I ranted about my hatred for musicians/actors who have the disgusting attitude that somehow god was responsible for what they did. "First off, I'd like to thank god for helping me sell millions of albums and have great musical talent." I don't care about the pompus attitude that they're that special. It's the utter confusion I get when I here this. What the fuck kind of god works to get some American/Canadian/Euro to be a famous musician but won't get off his fat arse to stop genocides?

Tyler, I think everyone hates that. But I don't think its anyworse than what this thread is talking about, in fact its probably less harmful.

Mike, I think you are doing a great job of evading the point:cool: