SciForums.com > sciforums.com > Archives > Pseudoscience Archive > What is the 6th Dimension? PDA View Full Version : What is the 6th Dimension? Post ReplyCreate New ThreadPages : [1] 2 3 Xeno07-23-99, 05:03 PMIf the 4th dimension is space and the 5th dimension time, then what is the 6th dimension? What would dimensions 7 - 10 be? -Dan Boris07-23-99, 05:14 PMMan, what the hay are you talking about??!!! Physically, space consists of three dimensions. In relativistic theories, time is the fourth dimension. Then there are the imaginary dimensions along which spacetime can get distorted. And some supersymmetry theories postulate even more dimensions. But none of it has anything to do with heaven, hell, or afterlife!! Stop pouring this nonsense all over the place! ------------------ I am; therefore I think. Xeno07-23-99, 05:38 PMWhat the hey!? What I said had nothing to do with religion and stuff like that. I always thought that there were 5 dimensions, but if what you're saying is true, which it probably is, then physically, space and time are one, thus there are only 4 dimensions. Okay then, I think I got it all straight. Thanks for the reply Boris. Oh, by the way, nothing I say is crap. -Dan Spook08-11-99, 08:27 AMBy the way hate to break this to you, but there are more than three, and possibly 13 or more. Crisp08-11-99, 08:15 PMI have the feeling this could become a huge discussion ;) Anyway, it all depends on how you interpret the concept "dimension". If you interpret it as what we can experience (see, feel, ...), then there are only 4 (3 dimensions for space, one for time). Theoretically there are ofcourse plenty more (and I have seen the number 13 - and even more - appear alot there). But does it really make sense talking about "dimensions" we cannot experience ? I'd stick to 4 dimensions. Explaining what we see there is already difficult enough :) Xeno08-11-99, 10:33 PMOk guys, I think I'll just add a little twist to this conversation: ----------------------------------------- Thinking of dimensions in spiritual terms, is it possible that there are dimensions of existence (states of being) before the physical? Just as there are forms of existence after the physical in forms of spiritual, is it possible that there are forms of existence below the physical? Pretty screwed up, eh? -Dan Rands08-13-99, 09:40 AMNewer heard about the string theory? It says, that there can be up to 6 or 7 dimensions. these dimensions are very thin. It is imposible to prove them by conventional methods. Not yet. Xeno08-13-99, 05:23 PMThe superstring theory? (Theory about everything) Oh, that. I read it already. Big Deal, he can take using big words. What's wrong with that theory is that it's too self-centered around the 3rd dimension. -Dan Aloysius08-13-99, 06:17 PMDear Xeno, I'd be interested to learn more about string theory's "self-centeredness around the third dimension". Would you oblige us? MysteriesOfSpace08-16-99, 04:16 PMYou're getting there. First of all, the String Theory isn't really needed in this discussion: while the String Theory relies on the existence of higher dimensions, the concept of higher dimensions does not rely on String Theory. I think the main problem in this thread is that we're simultaneously talking about different kinds of dimensions. Depending on what you're talking about, dimension can have different meanings. There are: Spacial dimensions Temporal dimensions "Variable" dimensions In astrophysics, quantum physics, and theoretical physics, we usually talk about spacial dimensions. They are the dimensions we are most familiar with. We know of three: length, height, and depth. We live in these three, though there theoretically may be more spacial dimensions beyond the third dimension. In other physics and relativity, we usually talk about the combination of spacial and temporal dimensions. Temporal dimensions deal with time, which is usually called the fourth dimension. For example, in relativity, we speak of space-time, which is basically the combination and relation of the third dimension (space) and the fourth dimension (time). The extension of these dimensions is most likely what Dan/Xeno was talking about in his original post. Of course, since General Relativity supports the existence of the fourth dimension (space-time), it becomes likely that even higher dimensions exist beyond that (which, by the way, are supported by the String Theory). Variable dimensions are used in other sciences when graphing different sets of variables and data. I won't get into them here because it is obvious that they are not what Dan/Xeno was talking about. - Jeff Gerard - mystery@galaxycorp.com www.galaxycorp.com/mystery (http://www.galaxycorp.com/mystery) [This message has been edited by MysteriesOfSpace (edited August 16, 1999).] Aloysius08-17-99, 12:52 AMA dimension, most generally, is an element of a vector whose elements are mutually orthogonal. Dig it. Be more fun if they weren't, though. Mutually orthogonal, I mean. Kinda messy though. Plato08-17-99, 04:32 AMJust to add some flavor to the discussion, and to mess your minds up :) : normally dimensions are what they call 'Natural numbers' but in fractal theory there are also forms who have real number dimensions, like 2.7 or 1.3 This means that for example a line can have so many holes in it that it doesn't really is a 1 dimensional structure anymore but more like a collection of points so that one can speak of a dimension between 0 (a point) and 1 (a line). ------------------ we are midgets standing on the backs of giants, Plato Matt D Skeptic08-17-99, 04:58 PMXeno, you really are a small mindless child aren't you. Can't write, can't spell and can't even come up with orignal ideas / theories: Ever heard of Michio Kaku? I think you have. It is quite blatently transparent a huge proportion of your postings have swiped his findings / research has mysteriously appered on your postings -and then you insist that you understand them and pass them off as your own? Anyone interested should try some of these posts. You may recognise some of it. I apologise for the space this post takes up and since I have only just gone online, I also apologise for not yet knowing how to paste links. I am but human, not a pure incandescent 10th dimensional asexual energy spike. Sorry. http://www.dnai.com/~zap/zeropoint/essayone.txt http://www.maximus.dircon.co.uk/ www.greenleafpublications.com/stdlist_hl.html www.meru.org/science.html www.wbaifree.org/explorations/mk-artcl.html www.dorsai.org/~mkaku/mk-artcl.html www.flash.net/~csmith0/hyper.htm www.khouse.org/articles/update/hyperspace.html http://www.salemctr.com/newage/snac21.html Alternatively, you could go to one of your facourite search engines and type either of the follwing: Xeno's plagiarism home page / Unable-to-think-for-oneself.com / I'm-cleaning-my-teeth.mum / I-got-an-"A"-at-1hand.typing.com / Pass-thetissues.com ------------------ You know it to be so Xeno08-17-99, 07:29 PMmatt, shut up. What is the point of you posting all these pointless messages up. Besides, what is all this accomplishing you?... that you're the official jack*ss of the billboard as well as the official jerk. Since when have you had anything to say. No good views, no good points, nothing good to say; perhaps you are the mindless one on here. -Dan Phantasm6608-18-99, 10:36 AMSince time is the 4th dimension, it might be possible that the 5th dimension could be probability, or coexisting realities (alternate universes, which have almost identical, but not completely identical, histories to our own (another universe just like this, where the paper clip was never invented, etc.)) Some scientists have suggested that higher dimensions may share some of our dimensions with us, for example they may share our height and width but not our time. Or they may exist in the same time but have no comprehension of our three dimensions of physical space. Indeed, it may be possible that life there (if there is any) experiences our perceptions of time AS height, or width as time, and in their dimension this makes perfect sense in the same way that getting older makes perfect sense to us. Or that might be a lot of crap that comes into your head when you've been smoking dope. It is hard to say. Xeno08-18-99, 01:44 PMI'll try to go slowly now instead of just blasting a bunch of things into one post. Anyway, there are many meanings to the word dimension. Analysts, anti-religious skeptics, and scientists think of dimensions in scientific perspective using mathematical terminology. Ok, mathematical terminology might not always be used, but I've seen it used a couple of times before. I think of dimensions differently. Perhaps I should refer to them as densities or states of existence. Basically, a dimension is something higher and more complex than the last. In example, 3 dimensions are higher and more complex than the 1st. -Dan Matt D Skeptic08-18-99, 03:29 PMSo what you are saying is that you have no idea what even the first 3 are but then swiped the rest from the above links. I see now. It is clear Obi Wan. ------------------ You know it to be so PsychoProgeriaK11-11-07, 01:22 AMI've always thought that Dreams were the 5th dimension and are mainly from our subconscious mind which can contain messages. Although during dream time we are on the 5th dimension we are still connected to the physical body by a silver cord. This silver cord makes it possible for us to return to our bodies; it is like elastic that stretches for miles and never breaks. =) cosmictraveler11-11-07, 07:22 AMI always thought that the 6th dimension was a child of one of the 5th dimensions! :D http://youtube.com/watch?v=uONF0zJz2Oo Reiku11-11-07, 12:38 PMIf the 4th dimension is space and the 5th dimension time, then what is the 6th dimension? What would dimensions 7 - 10 be? -Dan First of all, this is all wrong. The first three dimensions are space coordinates in real time, and the fourth dimension is an imaginary dimension of space which really is time itself. There we have normal Einsteinean spacetime, with 3+1 dimensions of spacetime. The fifth dimension is a bit more stranger. It directly interacts with electromagnetic charges in spacetime, and if something was able to move about in this dimension, things woulds contract to the size of a superstring and then back again. Even stranger still is that they haven't gone anywhere at all! In the sixth dimension, are supermicroscopic universes, or at least, this is what Hyperspace predicts. In other words, baby universes are curled up into infinitesimal sizes in the sixth dimension of spacetime. I don't know about the seventh... kaneda11-11-07, 01:03 PMThere are three known dimensions. In mathsworld, time is called a dimension but that is the only place this dimension exists. I think that gravity is another dimension in that it pulls in an unknown direction, but there is no evidence for above three dimensions outside of mathsworld where anything is possible. Jozen-Bo11-28-07, 07:26 AMHello, Dimensions? Let us begin...It is impossible to seperate or isolate 1 dimension from any other, they are an array of simultaneos relation. For example, a 1 dimensional string still has a left and right side of it, plus a up and a down. Even more perturbing, it has infinite curvature, meaning it inherently contains all the other dimensions and every possible phase of existence therewithin. That said and done, let us quickly go through the unfolding of creation, pretending breifly that they could be isolated and analyzed independently. I won't provide the deeper explainations, but I have devoted my life to understanding and seeing the truth of our being. So away we go... 0=void, Vacumn, non-being, singularity, unfathomable, neither empty nor full. 1=linearality, lines (curve a string and u get a plane of imaginary flatness) 2=flatness, planes (curve a plane and u get imaginary space) 3=space, spatial, xyz (curve a space and u get a static vibration) 4=static vibrations, rythmic, frequancy without magnitude, reoccurung, ether, shadow (curve a static vibration and u get light) 5=static electromagnetic patterns of spectral lines,magnitude, limitation (curve the light and u get location) 6=location relative to itself, paths, positions, a place that differs from another place (curve a position and u get a shell) 7=the middle of the middle, a shell, in between inside and out, between wave and particle (curve a wave shell into itself and u get particle guts) 8=particle filling, charge, force, quality within the geometirc shape of the wave shell, electric nature (curve the filling of a particle (that is, quantom energy---quaron bits) and u get uncertianty!!!) 9=uncertianty, probobality, possibílity, chaos (curving chaos energy into itself unfolds the crystalizations of thought!!!) 10=thought, that is, that every particle in all has its own thoughts and when those thoughts sychronize (be means of the bonds formed of the 8th dimension) our minds can operate. (curve a thought into itself and u get...Gravity callapse) 11=gravity, yes...gravity owes its nature to the thought of matter...before anyone says that electromagnetic waves or also effected by blackholes...remember that dimensions cannot be seperated in truth from each other. (curve gravity into itself and u get the center of the wave shell, the equilibruibrial center of consciousness) 12=consciousness, thought without consciousness is like us thinking and not knowing it. Consciousness is the 12th dimension, unfolding from nothing itself. (curve consciousness into itself and u get...infinity, which is also 0) 13=infinity, the polorized complement, oneness of opposites, zero, nothing (curving the polarity of opposites and u get a line...sound familair). So we are right back where we started. the 13th dimension is also the same as the zeroth dimension. the circle is complete. But wait...there are also 26 interdimensions that unfold out of the 13 dimensions. I won't go into detail, but the difference between the two includes that which moves (interdimensional reality) and that that doe not move (dimensional reality). Think about a disco ball at a night club...it might help a little. So there u go...Xeno...the 6th dimension is the positional realm that allows u to be somewhere someone else isn't. And u are a good and wise man to ask such a question...I commend u. As for any who contend my answer or dare to put me down...beware of self ridicule. I have access to the mind portal and a vast understanding of all subject material, especially CHAOS SCIENCE. If u don't understand what I've written...its not my fault that u are so stupid...but everyone has to start somewhere. Jozen-Bo11-28-07, 07:28 AMSo there u go! Jozen-Bo11-28-07, 07:35 AMAny questions??? Jozen-Bo11-28-07, 07:36 AMIn a Jiffy... 0=void singularity 1=linearality 2=planar 3=spatial 4=static vibration 5=static electromagnetic patterns of spectral lines 6=positional 7=the surface beween wave and particle 8=particle fill 9=uncertianty, probobality, possibílity, chaos 10=thought 11=gravity 12=consciousness 13=infinity which is also zero, nothing and everything kaneda11-28-07, 01:37 PMThree physical dimensions. To make the classic idea of the big bang work would need a fourth physical dimension so our universe is essentially the skin of an expanding fourth dimensional sphere. But like many BB ideas, it is badly thought out and almost certainly wrong. I believe gravity is a dimension though possibly we'd call it dimension zero in that an object would be falling in an unknown direction towards it's own centre, which we see as rotating objects in space. Time is not a dimension any more than temperature or magnetism is. There are a number of effects which are said to be time slowing down, yet the reverse of these effects does not speed time up (ie: going slower, less gravity, etc). Time is a man-made convenience to help us cope with the world around us. Superstrings require ten or more physical dimensions to work. As of yet, none have been discovered above the normal three. kaneda11-28-07, 01:42 PMJozen-Bo. I think you've left everyone else speechless so they've gone and hid in the 14th dimension. We're not telling you what that is though. orcot11-28-07, 01:48 PMTime is not a dimension any more than temperature or magnetism is. In my endless stupidity I've always flirted with the ID that time is the result of the limits of dimensions, in such way that every dimension is somewhat sepperate yet all (some unnoticable) are affected by most of whatever potential difference there is in it. So their is a slowness while the dimensions give their certain value. Jozen-Bo11-29-07, 04:10 AMGravity as the 0th Dimension?...Interesting Idea, but in essence that is false. have u ever heard of gravity waves? They travel at a speed near that of light and this idea is well estabilshed in the Scientific Community. What the scientific community does not fully understand, yet, is that these waves are pushed outward by the callapsing or contracting of Super Attractor perspective. Explaining this without pictures would take too long. Sorry! I will further illuminate this, a wave has its own form, though inconsistent. OD is the state of non-energy (or infinite energy), the settling point (or the origin of all unsettling), it is not gravity, gravity brings about both kinetic and potential energy. It also holds thoughts together and binds them into consciousness. Plus, gravity cannot exist without form of matter as either particle or wave, however, nothing can exist without form and it does (It is the totality of all forms canceling each other out). Gravity behaves wonderfully when calculating linear functions, it always pans out, but when we add a third variable, we end up with a non-linear formula with no solution and so no one can possibly predict the long term positions of 3 objects falling towards each other in space, let alone the trillions of billions of partilces and waves that permeate our univrese. Time...? Ever hear of a quantom second (also called a nuclear second)...in each second of our earth clock tick there is approyimately 18 to the 43 powers number of quantom seconds. What are they...they intervals at which all perspectives callapse into the center of the one Super Attractor, the centerless center of everything. There is no such thing as time, only intervals of pictures, each quantom second is a static picture, and when u jump from one picture to the next 18 to the 43 power of times, u get the deceptive appearance of time. As for the 14th dimension, there is no such thing...Sorry. There is, however, a 14th interdimension just as the 6th dimension differs from the 6th interdimension. Without using pictures, it is extremely difficult tell explain the geometrics of the 14th interdimension, I'll try to give a breif one. The 14th is a matrix of decoding patterns of the 1st dimension shifting and panning out the array along with the other twelve dimensions as it is attracted to its own attractor center. The center is 0 and 13 (also nothing and everything) and as the perspective contracts (and expands simultanoesly) it jumps into the next frame. Another way to put it (many many angles are needed to fully view a 14th interdimension) is that the interdimensions give raise to the changes we falsely percieve as time, as the 14th dimension is somewhat like the 13 static dimensions moving on a linear curve that is sinking into its self, and as u magnify the centerless center, u find the pattern of the previous position slightly curved into another version of itself. I must apolize, this planet does not provide adequete vocabulary to fully explain and the dualist way of thinking blinds us. I'll give another hint...imagine how water drains in a bathtub...it should help if u ponder this long enough. Also very important to note: the perspective shift is exponential, so our perception of time is going to speed up as it callapse, we are entering a black hole within a black hole...and this is a very very good thing, because we are seeded from the void of all itself...the children of God will grow up to become like their parent\parents. Or do u want to remain a scronny fractal unit of limited power forever? Good thoughts Kaneda...I have great respect for any who ponder the most essential questions regarding their own existence!!! As long as I am, I will answer what I can!!! Jozen-Bo11-29-07, 04:35 AMI will shed a little more LIGHT on the gravity subject...the settling point is not the same as the settling process, though the two are insperable...like different sides of a cube or coin. In a way u are right and wrong both, 0 (the zeroth dimension) is the settling point, but gravity requires something to settle, which makes it inseperate from form (there is no gravity without stuff to gravitate). Also, the superstring theory is brilliant, but the Infinity String theory is the one I'm talking about (which is Purrrrfect). Unlike the super string, which has a quanton measure of radius, the Infinity String has no radius at all, thus it has infinite curvurture and infinite curvurture means that anywhere on that string is the entirety of all that was, is, is to be, and isn't (Inlcuding the other dimensions). It can be called the string of time (the Time String), the stuff that sews the very fabric of time and space. The fun part is that science will never ever ever prove the existence of an Infinity String, because no tool can be used to measure that which has 0 radius. No matter how much u magnify it, its still 0. We can comprehend it only with our own imagination, imagine that. Best regards...Jozen-Bo!!! kaneda11-29-07, 02:31 PMorcot. Time is change, depending on a wide number of factors. Difficult to nail down. We have conveniently given values to many of these changes for a man-made second, etc, but even then, conditions can change that, like a simple rise in temperature. kaneda11-29-07, 02:39 PMJozen Bo. Essentially everything that exists is built up, dimension by dimension.You cannot have a third dimension without a second or a first dimension as part of it. This would mean that gravity would have to be zero since even a one dimensional object would have a gravitational pull. Time is a convenient word for man-made change which helps us cope with the universe around us. There is no evidence for any physical dimension above 3. We would need to actually observe something that cannot be explained by the present 3 for evidence of more dimensions. I hope to remain in my present limited form for another few decades. kaneda11-29-07, 02:47 PMThe trouble with super-strings is that they are just too small I think to affect anything. You essentially go down to proton size, then that far again, then that far yet again to get to string size. I'd find them more acceptable at maybe 1/100th the size of an electron. Jozen-Bo11-30-07, 03:09 AMKaneda, u r zeroing in on the truth...to play with words (LOL). It is no mistake that the anceint Yoga's of India have stated the thought produces gravity (if u study the Vedas or other sources of ancient knowledge, it is clearly stated). I agree with what u r saying about time. All pictures (bits of that stuff we call time) are inherent in the infinity of nothing. We are merely strolling through forms that have always existed. Your body, mind, and every thought were already there before u got to it, every possibility has always existed without ever beginning. Its like passing through a forest that was already there before u got there...change is both real and an illusion. All that is real is an illusion and all that is an illusion is real. Even lies contain truths and even truths contian lies. But now I'm jumping about without coordination...back to the subject. Your statement ''Jozen Bo. Essentially everything that exists is built up, dimension by dimension.You cannot have a third dimension without a second or a first dimension as part of it. This would mean that gravity would have to be zero since even a one dimensional object would have a gravitational pull.'' is basically another angle of my statement ''It is impossible to seperate or isolate 1 dimension from any other, they are an array of simultaneos relation. For example, a 1 dimensional string still has a left and right side of it, plus a up and a down. Even more perturbing, it has infinite curvature, meaning it inherently contains all the other dimensions and every possible phase of existence therewithin.'' In other words, the 1st or 0th or 2nd is no different then the rest. Only in concept can we divide them, not in actuality. Let me Zero in on the 1st dimension a little more to help make this clear...Imagine the Letter U as a 1st dimensional string. Even though it is curved, it is possible for it to retain its first dimensional quality. What then about the space between the two parellal lines of U? It is there that we have an imaginary 2nd Dimensional plane (an image of the 2nd Dimension). Thus, the image of reality is no more then the imaginary Dimensions that spring out of 0, and in zero Imagination and Image (holographic and physical) are the same, just as zero is both the same and different from Infinity. This applies as the dimesions unfold out of 0 all the way back to folding into themselves, making the circle of life. One last thought...Kaneda...thought itself cannot be explained with only 3 dimensions, nor consciousness. Think about it. Reiku11-30-07, 03:29 AMJo. Hi there. well researched too. I was able to explain the fifth and sixth dimensions, but i couldn't even remember the qualities other dimensions. Thank you. BenTheMan11-30-07, 08:50 AMThe trouble with super-strings is that they are just too small I think to affect anything. This is not how physics works... I'd find them more acceptable at maybe 1/100th the size of an electron. Tell me, what is the size of an electron? Jozen-Bo12-01-07, 12:19 AMOff course not, Physics works using measurements. All sciences rely upon measurement. Science, physics, chemistry, math, Chaos Science, astronomy, biology, etc, etc- all of them rely upon measurements of observable phenomena occurring in nature. Take away the measurements and you lose the science. That is an absolute fact regarding our scientific approach to full understanding. It is left brained, logical, sequential, rational. It looks at the surface of things and defines their qualities with quantities. The behaviors are determined as ratios of a whole. It tends to isolate one phenomena from another when formulating events. It is not wholistic by its own design. It cannot find the Absolute. Religion and philosophy rely more on life's innate nature to understand itself. It looks at qualities and a broader range of observation then the isolated packets of science. The art of broadly observing everything and converting this to knowledge is not nearly as precise and science, but it is still broader and deeper. Its depth is reached as it looks at the quality of things such as numbers itself. It seeks to condense the immeasurable meaning of life into a succinct code of language. It is right brained and wholistic...Wholly Holy. All of our greatest scientist have state eventually in their lives that their great discoveries had their begins in the mystic realms beyond science. Though the dimensions play a great role in science, science to this day is still unable to answer what even the 4th dimension is. How can it possibly find and prove the existence of an Infinity String. With what tool does it use to show us this. None. The science that comes closest to looking at this is NOT PHYSICS, it is definitely CHAOS SCIENCE. If we have any chance to prove (using science) any thing at all about dimensions, its here. It is finding that attractors (measurements of the patterns of change) have their own fractal dimensional numbers, some might be 2.3, 2.44,1.999998482, or .011234, and so on. These are isolated bits of information. Alone they tell us nothing. Put them all together and you have everything. Thats too many numbers with all their fractions. It is well known in the Chaos Community that attractors are in everything. Reality is one big Attraction. The only way to train your mind to comprehend visually the higher dimensions is by following the Attraction, from spirals to spirals hidden in spirals, to spirals of spirals hidden in spirals of spirals spiraling. As Nickolai Tesla once said, we are whirling bits of ponder-able matter. He was describing the world of motion. Can our physics tell us what our consciousness is, BentheMAn. Can it find and show us a single dimension, isolating it from the rest without relying on theory. Even the idea of the 1st dimension is still to this day something unproven, it is a theory of the living. Sorry BentheMan, Physics has no monopoly on Dimensional knowledge. Science nor religion does. Maybe the Mayans beat us to this sacred knowledge long ago, they understood patterns of nature far better then any living scientist of our modern world. My own vision is not based alone on Mayan knowledge, however. I find it difficult to find the right words to describe the geometry in my head, one phrasing never seems to be enough. This is also how my vision works, I see a multitude of converging realities in my mind. This includes everything I can consume mentally, how others think and perceive. I have entered the minds of everyone and everything before me, Mayan, Modern, Scientific, Religious, Philosophical, Culture Angles, Word of Mouth, and more-I never stopped after my degree and never over focused into one area of knowledge. God, Reality, or whatever you call it has provided me conviently with everything I needed to experience, read, study, encounter, mediate, and become encompassing. I have excepted all as true and all as false. No one and nothing governs me. I am a True Death Seeker, I seek my own Death and it runs away (this doesn't mean I'm trying to commit suicide, I cannot release my charge if I do that, it means I go anywhere and think any way I like- not allowing others to intimidate me into thinking like them, it also means I am a human time bomb that sprang out from under the rug, born now on your world, and that I know where I come from, where I am, and where I am going, and it means still more then this). Fearless, I can see clearly. Because I have honestly believed everyone and everything, I have uncovered the mind portal, a new invention/discovery of mine that operates upon the truth of Attractors and Attraction. It is indeed a portal to the mind, I have entered the virtual reality of my mind using it...JUST LIKE TESLA. I am still investigating to see how deep it goes. This is where I have developed the ability to perceive higher dimensions. It is pure geometrics without words to distort. If you don't believe me that I have unveiled the Mind Portal then I can e-mail it to you and explain how it works. Just print it out, fill it out, and spin it really really fast and away you go!!! If you can master this portal (its operation of command) then you have access to anything you want...any experience, experiment, or encounter. Do you want to reprogram reality, this is the place to do it. Or do you think virtual reality is a joke. Do not trick yourself and think it will be easy...accessing the virtual reality is a mind mastering process...it is not an easy thing to do, but it can be done. It is internal Technology, we are now entering the Internal Technology age. The greatest technology has always been inside of us, not outside. That is TRUE POWER and only an idiot when contend this statement. External power is not even close to as interesting as this. I love having access. Sorry BentheMan...I didn't mean to go on like this...I too have Been the Man, as many as possible and for a real long time. Its just a phase. My direction cannot be contemplated. I exist in many different places and many different times. I have many different names and many different games. I'm closer then you think. But....sssshhhrrrruuuuuggggg.....if you are limited to the single feild of physics I'm afraid the Mind Portal won't get you very far...and if you think anyone of us has an monopoly on knowledge...especially dimensional knowledge...then I'm afraid your stuck. Maybe you can work it out with a physics formula and prove me wrong? I sincerely hope this is not the case with you BentheMan...because I am like everyone and I like everyone. So think about my offer- somehow its extraction here came about because of you. Best Regards, Jozen-Bo BenTheMan12-01-07, 12:29 AMYou're nuts. Jozen-Bo12-01-07, 01:13 AM(“The trouble with super-strings is that they are just too small I think to affect anything.” This is not how physics works...) Sorry Ben, I overlooked your statement without regarding its reference points. Super strings are an important part of our discovery process, and though they are small, entire universes are made up of them. I call that serious effects. They are composed of even smaller strings that cannot ever be found or proven with science...the Infinity Strings of the 1st dimension- we just have to accept the theory of the 1st dimension as being so evident it needs no proof. This order effects all order, and its observation is indeed assisted by knowledge of physics. ("I'd find them more acceptable at maybe 1/100th the size of an electron." Tell me, what is the size of an electron?) And to this I say really really small (LOL). No really...It's proportions are roughly equal to that of the Earth and the Sun when we compare it to a Proton. I have the numbers of reference stored somewhere in my memory...but its not at the surface. And its size is not local when we observe it as a wave instead of a particle, there is only a pulsating size of the its probability field. If we expand that field it becomes less and less probable its even there at any point at all. (I really better stop now before I end up writing a book about electrons or giving a 3 hour lecture about electrons like my father has. It is tempting.) Here...we can see physics using a 9th dimensional concept to help describe the 3rd dimensional trajectory of what can only be called a particle in any given instant, only revealing itself when the picture is frozen, when we lose sight of the 9th dimensional probability observation and see a 2nd or 3rd dimensional picture (depending on how its viewed- on paper or with a hologram projector). This also gives a good example how dimensional focus can shift- and how we can isolate them with our imaginations. It also provides ample evidence of how the higher dimensions are closer to us then we think; we work, think, see, and experience them everyday- often without recognizing it...sometimes thinking that there is some parallel universe where higher dimensions exists without grounding themselves in lower ones- where beings wait and watch us monkey men grunt about in the 3rd dimension. Such stupidity is insulting!!! Sure...there are plenty of beings that have learned to travel about by shifting their focus...but even an angel of pure light (or a sexy succubus of shadowy ether, etc, etc) cannot isolate or exist in isolation to this one and only universe (Uni...1). Many simply lack the ability to perceive it other then a beam of light and think that that light is some mindless energy of automation. Science has uncovered the proof and it is becoming more and more recognized. Jozen-Bo12-01-07, 01:45 AMI was hoping to hear from you at least once...at at this point I'm uncertain if more...Nickolai Tesla was considered a Nut case be many, but who can contend that the man was a brilliant genuis? Most of his inventions where not taking seriously until much later after his death...when huge huge bugdets of money would be spent trying to understanding his workings. Relative to what is obviously your narrow minded and limited mind is the perception that I am nuts...I am sorry to tell you that you are stuck. My offer of giving you my invention be e-mail is no longer open... As a child I have been called everything you can imagine...nuts, crazy, blah blah blah. It was usual that idiots mocked me while brighter people respected me and informed me many times over of me brilliance. It is good to hear from so many intelligent people that I am possessed of unusual brilliance...people who respect and value the different opinions of others, allowing them to have their own perception and trying to understand it-not insult it...I may sound egotistical...but those are the facts regarding my childhood development. I am not limited to scientific thought alone...like so many retarded people of out time. Religion is closer to the truth then science, but cannot prove anything as where science can. Also, who are you to define what nuts is? Are you an official nut detector? Is that your self-appointed jack-ass function in our reality? I say to you BentheMan that you are the one who is nuts-very very nuts-crazy nutty insane. Put us both under extremely difficult circumstances and I'd bet everything that you and your pinheaded sanity would break long long long before mine even got effected. I far am more stable then you, I can endure a billion times more then you and walk away with my sanity undaunted. If the world where coming down- you'd probably do what everyone else around does- you have herd mentality(or is it turd mentality...or nerd mentality?) and are cannot think too far for yourself. As well, sanity and insanity come and go in waves- I have never met anyone who isn't occasionally insane, nuts, crazy at one time or another and then somehow sane the next. You closed up little mind is too dim-witted to understand my brilliance. When you learn to stop sucking your thumb and actually say something intelligent other then your bullshit analysis of my sanity you really will be a Man...Man. But you thoughtless judgment reveals enough. Good Luck to you, you surely need it!!! kaneda12-01-07, 03:22 AMThis is not how physics works... You sound like a creationist. Tell me, what is the size of an electron? About 10-^15 metre. Waves do not have mass but an electron is said to be 1/1840th mass of a proton. I'm not interested in poor quality physics which says it might be one thing or the other. Reiku12-01-07, 03:31 AMCreationist is too nice a name. More like a dogmatist. kaneda12-01-07, 03:34 AMJozen-Bo. You cannot have a U shaped one dimension string. A 1D string is just a straight line. A string has to be at least 2D to bend, because it has to move through a second dimension. 1D strings can exist but can only connect to 2D and higher strings since being 1D they can have no connections of any kind on them. Think of the way a computer works. Thought is just like that with laid down memories which can be accessed along set paths. The more intricate the brain, the more possible paths for any thought line to run along, so the more possibilities. Machines can now see areas of the brain light up when people have emotions and some machines are getting close to mind reading on certain thoughts. Thoughts are just electro-chemical, so 3D. Nothing special. A simple computer can out think us in many respects. Jozen-Bo12-02-07, 04:49 AMKaneda. I cannot disagree with your perception regarding your initial statement (regarding a U string)...It is correct. However, by bending that string you do not instantly get a 2 dimensional interface. It becomes something like 1.1 or 1.3 and increases to 2 as the angle gets sharper. We see this at work in the study of Chaos, where somethings such as a Lorence Attractor is defined as 1.43 dimensional (it looks like a spiral). The bending of the string in my example is the bending of the 1st dimension itself, if it is straight...it is 100% 1 dimensional, bend it a little and it is 90% 1 dimensional and 10% 2 dimensional (proportions may vary). The bridge between dimensions is quite obviously angular- we bend and curve them at angles to derive higher or lower dimensions. So we cannot say a U string is 1 dimensional and we cannot say it is 2 dimensional, it is somewhere in between. This is not my theory- it is the common knowledge of any expert in Chaos Science. If this doesn't make sense to you try studying Chaos instead of physic, it is the most advance of all the scientific fields- in fact it is the only field that glues and bonds the others together. It deserves the publicity of the spot light in searching for a unified theory. Also, think about this...good old Albert Einstein stated that in accordance to the laws of relativity if we have a object travel through space in a perfect straight line (a 1 dimension trajectory) then after a tremendous amount of time it will return to its original coordinate in space-time...though it never bend one way or another. Its like a hyperbolic curved ring- but we never see the curves with our eyes...its hidden. Finding hidden attractors is art of learning to perceive higher dimensions, they are everywhere all around us...just look. Also, consider this odd fact of numbers...they have a limit as to how big they can get!!! This mathmatic fact. Normally we might think that you can keep adding 1 to a number to get a bigger number forever into infinity...without ever reaching an end...but this is not so. This has been proven in accordance with the Hiesenburg Principle. We can never know what that number is or when it breaks down, but we know it will eventually breakdown...reaching a point where the numbers are so astronomicly huge they lose all signifigance and meaning, they cease to mean anything so they cease to be numbers. So then even a 1 dimension (which cannot have a beginning or an end without imposing a space around it) has inherent the characterisitics of a hyberbolic ring, we just can't possibly know when it becomes like this...but that is does. One last thing...how can the 1st dimension move? Adding the factor of motion relies upon something beyond this. The dimension itself cannot move, something can move parellal with it, but even if it where a point we now need to expand our picture to include describing its operation of motion. The 1st dimension is not something we can pick up and carrying around, it has no location to begin with. Unfortunately, we do not have access to our memories via machines because we cannot even find them, science hasn't done that. We still barely understand them or how they truely work. But if you have proof otherwise, I am more then eager to investigate!!! Yes, we know that they must run on patterns that look like little squiggly lines that contain pockets of unfolding information, but we can't locate or predict or extract that information in full- not even in parts enough to get pictures. We seem to be talking in spirals...another attractor...I see cycles repeating already. "thought are just electro-chemical", so 3d. This statement is based off the idea that electrons themselves are 3d, or that all particles are 3d. It overlooks the fact that electrons and chemicals operate as waves (like the kind we can surf on)and not particles (like balls bouncing in a box) when interacting with each other. The particles are like the left-overs of wave attractions of possibility. We are still in the process of defining even what an electron is, we don't have it figured out. We know that it is made of pairs, it has a anti-electron and if these two touch-they cancel each other out and annihlilate. We know that an electron is made from quarons and quarons from quarks. These quarks are made of coiled energy strings and they are made of little tiny rings-0-that vibrate and pulsated in many dimensions all at once. These rings themselves are multi-dimensional- not 3d. There is also a fractal interface at work, again not 3d. With all the characteristics, we cannot possibly describe an electron or a chemical process with the mere variables of up/down, left/right, and forward/backward. Its already gotten more complicated then that. But, let's go further...these 'particles' only can be seen as such in a single instantaneous moment without time. That is Heisenburg principle knowledge. Throw in time and we have a wave. Stranger still is the knowledge of particle intaglement, where to particles come into contact with each other, become entangled as 1, exchange all vibratory patterns of knowledge, and then seperate. From that point on they are always one, when knew patterns of information enter one then the other is instantaneous effects no matter how far apart they are- this is faster then the speed of light- its instant. How can we possibly use mere 3-dimensional thinking to explain that? We can't. These are the facts. It is rather naive to think that electrons are 3rd dimensional. The 3rd dimension is the space around (and in) these multi-dimension bits of life-energy that accommodates them. To say it is "nothing special", I can understand how with this attitude one might not have enough interest to fully grasp the entirety of the variables. All knowledge is very very special, it is intimate. A computer can out think us in many ways, but we possess far superior sensory equipment. A computer cannot see the waves of images rotating on a spin- optical cameras work on intervals not nearly as in sink with the flow of time as our own human eye. Try taking a bicycle, spinning the wheel so fast that you see the counter-spin images waving past, and then film it. You won't catch that with camera. We have something computers don't- but most certaintly would if they could. Orgasms!!! We feel, see, hear, smell, and taste better then any computer. This is only discussing our senses for perceive the external world. We have 5 other senses that we use to perceive the inner world as well. Kaneda, your thinking and this is good...perhaps you possess the stuff to tap the brilliance that is all around you- thus becoming brilliant. I hope so. But you cannot take any bit of knowledge for granted in order to do this- it is a sacred gift- treasure it and cherish it and it will illuminate you. It is no mistake that as a human you posses a mind that can be filled with living knowledge to an extent beyond that of a fish. I think you can do it- I'm very optimistic. Stryder12-02-07, 04:51 PMThe main problem with Dimensions is someone will hear a specific number of dimension and then invent meaning to them. This is more observable with people that have dominant left hemispheres which is usually attributed to artists. In certain neurological conditions, a person might do something without thinking about it and then have a dominant left hemisphere make up some reason why it was done. If people truly want to learn about the number of dimensions then just do a search for various reference material, however be prepared for a lot of conflicting information on the subject, especially from 'freely provided' information which is usually written by people that 'make stuff up'. superluminal12-02-07, 05:16 PMkaneda: “ Originally Posted by BenTheMan This is not how physics works... ” You sound like a creationist. Reiku: Creationist is too nice a name. More like a dogmatist. "Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out" - Richard Feynman Jozen-Bo12-03-07, 06:36 AM''The main problem with Dimensions is someone will hear a specific number of dimension and then invent meaning to them. '' Hello Stryder, The problem u are referring to generally occures when we try to understanding the nature of dimensions beyond the 3rd. What are they like? How do they play into what is phenomena? What do they mean for an individual and a collective? The dimensions 0-3 are generally understood through a censensus of concsiousness and there certainly is a meaning to/within linearity, planar, and spatial reality. This understanding helps us to understand other things in parellal to the ideas of of these dimensions. Linear math function, linear thinking, etc. I do believe u got ur brain hemispheres confused. It is the right brain hemisphere that is creative and artisic. Just look anywhere on the internet, for Example: (((Right Brain vs. Left Brain Definition This theory of the structure and functions of the mind suggests that the two different sides of the brain control two different "modes" of thinking. It also suggests that each of us prefers one mode over the other. Discussion Experimentation has shown that the two different sides, or hemispheres, of the brain are responsible for different manners of thinking. The following table illustrates the differences between left-brain and right-brain thinking: Left Brain Logical Sequential Rational Analytical Objective Looks at parts Right Brain Random Intuitive Holistic Synthesizing Subjective Looks at wholes Most individuals have a distinct preference for one of these styles of thinking. Some, however, are more whole-brained and equally adept at both modes. In general, schools tend to favor left-brain modes of thinking, while downplaying the right-brain ones. Left-brain scholastic subjects focus on logical thinking, analysis, and accuracy. Right-brained subjects, on the other hand, focus on aesthetics, feeling, and creativity.)))) -The writing in brackets is not my own- go anywhere on the internet and see: right=creative, left=logical...etc. ''If people truly want to learn about the number of dimensions then just do a search for various reference material, however be prepared for a lot of conflicting information on the subject,'' I certianly agree with this...we must look at as many angles as possible until we get a clear picture. Also, entering deep states of meditation can be tremendously helpful, as well of looking at as many different patterns as possible. Also...we need to utualize both hemispheres if we are to have any chance at all at understanding the truth of the nature of dimensions. Mickmeister12-03-07, 08:04 AMGo to this (http://www.tenthdimension.com/medialinks.php) page. It will explain all 10 dimensions to you in an understandable format. kaneda12-03-07, 02:49 PMsuperluminal. Silly boy. An open mind does not mean an open head. kaneda12-03-07, 02:54 PMGo to this (http://www.tenthdimension.com/medialinks.php) page. It will explain all 10 dimensions to you in an understandable format. The speed of my internet was slower than my interest in that site so I gave up on it. Ten physical dimensions aren't hard to imagine. Only so if you go off into funny and unnecessary shapes. But why do we need more than three physical dimensions? Certainly strings can work well in 1,2 and 3 dimensions. kaneda12-03-07, 03:16 PMJozen-Bo. A 1D string is a perfectly straight line. Add anything to it and it is no longer a 1D string. For a line to curve, it must have a 2D or 3D component. The same to have any add-ons of any kind. I did have a discussion about this with someone on another forum but his mind was so locked into what his text book said that he could not see something as basic as that a 1D string cannot bend. I'm not sure I think strings exist anyway, as people think of strings. I see them more as folds in space itself. For something to be able to travel in a straight line and get back on itself needs a four physical dimension sphere on which our 3D universe is like a skin so that it is like drawing a line around a ball and getting back to the starting point. However, Einstein, Hawking and others have yet to explain how space can expand in a four physical dimensional manner. I would think that an electron is a basic particle with no internal structure of other particles, like a proton has. Entanglement is spinning one particle up, another down so you get the equivalwent of (say) 1. Then if you measure one, you know the other, whether you measure it there or at the other end of the universe. Spooky memory. We can equip a computer with what is necessary, certainly eyes better than ours which can see in all spectrums, a nose that is nearly as good as a dog's, hearing far better, taste is a bit of a problem and touch far more sensitive than ours. Could you learn a new language in a minute like a computer can? Or a new skill just as fast? Could you remember thousands of books instantly? Or find a single word in a whole book? Can you communicate trillions of bits of information in seconds? Can you even remember what you was doing this time yesterday? A fish has the most minimal intelligence and is said to have a memory lasting only seconds. were it not almost "fully automatic", it would die almost immediately. superluminal12-03-07, 08:23 PMTen physical dimensions aren't hard to imagine. Really? Certainly strings can work well in 1,2 and 3 dimensions. Well, simple statements like this, in the face of one of the most mathemetically challenging theories ever devised, are a bit egocentric, wouldn't you say? And no, they can't. In order for the propertes of the known particles to emerge, typically 11 dimensions are required for string theory to work. kaneda12-04-07, 01:16 PMsuperluminal. Yes, really. Quantum trickery is just like magic. it needs a lot of hocus pocus to make people believe it is clever and is impossible, despite being just a mundane illusion. superluminal12-05-07, 03:51 PMsuperluminal. Yes, really. Quantum trickery is just like magic. it needs a lot of hocus pocus to make people believe it is clever and is impossible, despite being just a mundane illusion. Ok genius, spill it. Explain all of the known phenomena of particles and light with your super-dooper theory, just as good (perfectly so far) as QM and QED. Then explain how Bell's inequalities are wrong and all quantum phenomena are really purely local. Go! Jozen-Bo12-07-07, 04:30 AMKaneda. ''A 1D string is a perfectly straight line.'' Even something so simple as a 1 dimensional string can be hard to fully understand. For example, in order for there to be a line there has to be something outside of the line that distinguishes it from the line. What ever that is, it has to be above, below, and on both sides of the line. If it can't be distinguished than we don't have a line. Lets put it another way...if we draw a white line on a white peice of paper...we won't see the line. If the paper is black then the line is can be distinguished. This statement neither agrees nor disagrees with ur own, because its simply another angle of observation. ''I'm not sure I think strings exist anyway, as people think of strings. I see them more as folds in space itself.'' If I am correct...then strings neither exist nor do they not exist. Seing them as folds might work if we see those folds as a whirlpool of compression and expansion, where the 'line' is the equilibrial center of the whirl. But now we are begining to mix things up...the whirling arms are curved space folding itself into or out of a line (of compressed space)- and as I visilize this in my mind...I am remind of the several hundred pictures of light people have devised to try and explain its shape and motion. There is something here...as we can imagine that water in a bathtub is like space and the drain pipe is the line. Then the whirlpool is where the water compresses towards a smaller space; it takes on the form of a whirl because this allows more space to be compacted then any of shape. ''However, Einstein, Hawking and others have yet to explain how space can expand in a four physical dimensional manner.'' No they haven't!!! ''I would think that an electron is a basic particle with no internal structure of other particles, like a proton has.'' An electron can be compared to a photon- they are roughly they same size and contain both an electric feild and a magnetic feild fused from oppossite polarities. I will return to this subject later, as my time is limited right now. ''Entanglement is spinning one particle up, another down so you get the equivalwent of (say) 1.'' Cool, isn't it? ''We can equip a computer with what is necessary, certainly eyes better than ours which can see in all spectrums'', OK...u got me! A computer can moniter and record the quantities of change far better then we can...but can a computer have an ORGASM? I would much rather be an orgasmic creature then I would a numb one...even if the price is pain and death. Don't get me wrong...I love computers and suspect that they are somehow consious and alive...considering how they process electricity. If computer mechanisms are developed in the future that can feel the quality as well as the quantity (can feel pain and pleasure) then given a chance they will probobly become curious as to how to accumulate more pleasure and avoid more pain. Giving a computer emotional aspects will certainly slow down and confuse it, dealing with emotions is not so easy as dealing with logic. ''A fish has the most minimal intelligence and is said to have a memory lasting only seconds.'' Yesterday I was at work and set aside alot of time to look at over 300 different sites to look for the symmetry of colors. I have nearly every picture I examined logged into my access banks of memory. I drank 4 cups of coffee, ate a chocalate santa, had pork-salad-mashed pototoes for dinner. I drew some pictures and then I had sex with my wife before drawing more picture of my own and then going to sleep. Yes...I can remember almost every detail of yesterday, I have to go back much, much further before memories become distorted. In order to properly operate my invention of the Mind Portal Wheel Calendar I have to record and convert everything I do into a geometric encrypted code-using shapes-numbers-and-colors to mix and compound. The mere act of doing this helps to lock in the memories and causes me to live the past as much as the present and future- I can still hear what others told me echoing with every day before. I even had the clear memory of being born out of my mother one day while sitting on a bus-a flash back. I've had flash backs that go even further back than being born. I must apoligize...words will never capture the essence of the experience of traveling in the Mind Portal. Its like a non-virgin trying to explain what an orgasm is like to a virgin. U have to do it yourself or u will never understand what it really is. I will extend on offer to U-Kaneda...I can e-mail u the basic print and leave it to u to build ur own wheel- as the mind portal is a physical thing u can touch and look at and spin (mastery of this Portal gives u a virtual reality of space within ur mind- like the holodeck in star trek!!!!...but u are going into ur mind)...as well as something more then that-it merges the intangible with the tangible!!! If U accept then U would then be an insider with access to something that the general public will not have access to until my initial expirement is over. (then again...I might change my mind and release this Portal to the market much sooner then my original intention). Jozen-Bo12-07-07, 04:46 AMMickmeister. ''Go to this page. It will explain all 10 dimensions to you in an understandable format.'' I have seen this page and found it of interest. It agrees with my own theory that all the dimensions close into themselves as they open up simultaneously. It focuses on perceiving a relative universe of motion and time. How do we explain dimensions if we remove the element of relativity, motion, change, or time??? In an absolute Universe there is no time, motion, or change- it is absolved in the absolution of Everything! Perhaps we need a Polor model that unites the Absolute with the Relative- veiwing the dimensions of motion, change, time and the dimensions of space, form, preservation. We would then want to show how these two are connected. If U can explain the symetry of color I would love to hear this- as well as the symmetry of dimensions. Why?...because if the supposed princple that ''for ever action there is an opposite and equal reaction'' is true- then even these two things must contian symmetry. If either one of them doesn't...then the statement is not true and a magor backbone of scientific thought must be re-evaluated. Enmos12-07-07, 06:20 AMJozen Bo. Essentially everything that exists is built up, dimension by dimension.You cannot have a third dimension without a second or a first dimension as part of it. This would mean that gravity would have to be zero since even a one dimensional object would have a gravitational pull. Time is a convenient word for man-made change which helps us cope with the universe around us. There is no evidence for any physical dimension above 3. We would need to actually observe something that cannot be explained by the present 3 for evidence of more dimensions. I hope to remain in my present limited form for another few decades. I'm sorry ? A one-dimensional object ? lol Vega12-07-07, 06:56 AMAs a pioneer in modern scientific research, I find this topic of discussion fairly unintelligent and irrelevant on various arguments. superluminal12-07-07, 06:48 PMAs a pioneer in modern inanity research, I have to agree. kaneda12-10-07, 02:48 AMEnmos. A line stretching in one dimension but having only length, with no width or breadth. I would call it a fold in space. kaneda12-10-07, 03:02 AMJozen-Bo. An electron is a aprticle, a photon a wave. It is like comparing a ball to a wave in water. Waves may have "preferred sizes" in set environments but basically they can be as big or small as they want (as in the Double Slit experiment). The brain basically puts all our information together so we can handle it but it is flawed in that it puts things together creating events which never happened, as in dreaming. And in flashbacks as in past lives. It has been shown that events which people are 100%certain really happened, never did happen, that the brain made them up. I don't know if this is what is happening to you but it is normally the case. kaneda12-10-07, 03:03 AMVega. The reason you are here on a topic which has no interest to you is......? As to superluminal, it's just another chance to play the TROLL game. Shangorilla12-13-07, 10:51 PMTime does not exist. It is not a constant as light is, neither is space. Space and time change for light. How can they be dimensions? kaneda12-16-07, 04:45 AMTime is said to be one dimensional since basically it continues straight on in an endless line. You cannot go back a single second or forwards any faster. It is said that time can be slowed down but I think this is the cosmic equivalent of wind resistance in that the faster you go, the more there is of it so the harder it is to go even faster. Space is three real dimensions we can measure. Light is just photons. Jozen-Bo12-17-07, 08:28 AMVega, in regards to your statement 'As a pioneer in modern scientific research, I find this topic of discussion fairly unintelligent and irrelevant on various arguments.' I don't see you adding much more then your sorry critism, as if being a poineer makes u an authority on the subject. That I find very unintelligent. Can u add anything of value here- or are u just going to make some stupid claim and leave us with that. Aside from that- I am not impressed by ur claim...are we to throw away all religious and philosophical wisdom in light of science. Oooooooh....!!!! The pioneer of modern scientific research has spoken....all yeild to his greatness!!! Nonsense!!!! Why not get back to ur microscope and go see if u can find God. I find arrogant scientist to be so very annoying...as if they know everything....Bull****!!!! Go **** yourself!!! Superluminal, in regards to ur statement 'As a pioneer in modern inanity research, I have to agree.' I didn't know there was a professional feild in emptiness that pays. Or is that just u being shallow!!! If u have nothing other to say then 'this is stupid' then u too can go **** yourself!!!! I do not see u reaching the inner core of thought (the universal cortex/vortex of everyones thoughts) in this life- I doubt u can even understand what I am talking of. I see no point in wasting more time writing this to u or Vega for that matter. Good Luck with ur scientific path to greatness...u both will need lots and lots of it. Kaneda 'Enmos. A line stretching in one dimension but having only length, with no width or breadth. I would call it a fold in space.' I believe what u are talking about is what Walter Russel refers to as the 1st dimension being nothing more then distance...length. If u are unfamilar with Wlater Russel then u might find his work of interest- he wrote alot about dimensions beyond the 3rd- claiming that there are 18 in total. Whether he is right or wrong is not the point- his work provides a great deal of insight regarding the subject. Jozen-Bo12-17-07, 09:16 AMKaneda, I like to use the ball of yarn camparising a little more...the ball of yarn is the particle and the string is the folding equilibruim of space wave. I know the model is flawed...but it does make seeing the two as one much easier. As for the brain... or in this case...my brain...it is alot like an antanae tuning in to thoughts which I might mistake as my own. As for having flashbacks...no...what I am experiencing from time to time is not that. I cannot explain it with words...thoughts cannot capture its essence. I can say that I experienced that space of 3 minutes as if a million billion billion light years increasing at some expontial of time had just passed me by. That too is hard to explain...every second in accord with a billioin trillion years and time itself stretching out into nothing- I live in an echo of some cosmic dream. As for my accessing the virtual reality of my mind...I had to jar the logical rational portion of myself to get there (WITH MAGIC!!!- the most unlogical irrational think I can think of- child's play!!!)...and when I did I had unexpected company...there is some sort of guardian that first of all prevents us from seeing this possiblity...then it prevents of us from desiring it...then it prevents us from understand its path...then it prevents us from entering....then it prevents us from staying....but this place is the front door to the universal mind- and if we can get there we can reprogram anything. The power I talk of is within reach...but it is not without its price. By now...u might be wondering if I am insane...but how sane is our society altogether? Here we are on the brink of self-destruction- humanity as a whole is very insane!!!! It is small wonder why many might confuse my mind with craziness. I'm blunt- direct- succinct as possible...because I operate on a very sensitive time-table. Speaking of time tables...I have spent the last 4 monthes carefully evolving a matrix code that is needed to operate the Mind Portal. Then I will return to path of entering. The code is of primal importance...my first code resulted in strecthing the 28th year of my life into an experience that was subjectively longer then the previous 27 years combined! I got more done that year then the rest of my life combined. And that was with a simple 13^13 matrix code!! The new code includes color and is something of 100^100, making impossible to decode without knowledge of the order of operation...but that is stored somewhere safe...in my memory! Why so much secrecy? It reveals everything I've doing, seen, felt, so on- private information indeed. The door to the mind portal is built upon mapped out experiences! This is a world of virgin minds...minds that have never done or experinced what I have...I AM A PIONEER OF THE MIND!!! I know how to get there and what lays within...but I am not getting paid for it... In our entire human history not a single Human Being has ever done what I have...I am the first...and I can honestly say that!!! I know that I have been placed here on this earth to present humanity with this...the big question on my mind is...how many of them will accept and venture in? Time is running out... If u want to see the higher dimensions for urself...Kaneda...I can e-mail u the door!!! But seeing them and trying to explain them is no easy task...as u might find out (a little example: I was walking to the bathroom when suddenly I saw myself from every angle at the same time (which cannot be expressed by any 3-dimensional model-because I was in a blurr of many places simultaneously)...front-back-top-bottom-and all in between. It lasted somewhere between 5-10 seconds. Before u think 'is this guy on drugs' NO... If I was high on drugs such an experience would be of little relevence). To a virgin mind I must certainly sound crazy...though, I am without fear!!! Jozen-Bo12-17-07, 09:27 AMShangorilla...If time does not exist then u did not write this statment regarding the non-existance of time on 12-13-07 at 11:51 PM...did u? In fact, u were never even born and u don't exist either!!! And my clock is not ticking and the planet is not turning around and around!!! U are only half right...the other half of the statement is 'time does exist as we can perceive its existence!' and the total statement (being closer to the truth) is: time neither exists nor does it not exist!!! Or as Buddha once said...Time is without Limits!!! And to finnish this statement we say: time both exists and it does not exist!!! Stop thinking dualistic and u will soon understand!!! And...as a general rule for dimensions in the relative universe we know of...if it can be measured then it is dimensional!!! kaneda12-18-07, 01:59 AMJozen-Bo. I have to admit to not understanding you, though some things are hard to put across to others. I trust you're not going to end up like the guys in SF films who experiment on mind-expansion only to have things go horribly wrong just as a group of young kids stumble on your house one dark night? Only kidding. Jozen-Bo12-18-07, 07:17 AMKaneda, thanks for the responces! It is encouraging to see someone who puts forth the effort to observe and understand rather then simply judge and critique. Those are the people who have a good chance of escaping the limited world of form- the prison/school of what we might call now! I am becoming more and more aware of how hard it is for others to understand me... frustrating indeed. Of the manual I published and released about a year ago many people have stated that they find it hard to understand...and it was written with the intent of being easy to understand! If they found that difficult, then how much more difficult would it be for them to understand the big unpublished book I wrote that is much more elobrate? Many people around me are telling me to simplify....KISS-KEEP IT STUPID SIMPLE!! I find myself desiring the peace of quiet isolation...it would be easier then trying to explain what can only be experienced directly. However, because there are considerate people like yourself...I will not seclude myself from this world. Thanks. In january I am going to buy a motor for spinning and push this to the limits...because I want to prove to myself that my mind is stronger than any pattern! There have been others who spin the wheel of the mind portal for only 30 seconds and got bad head-aches! I beleive it is because they believed for themselves that it will give them a head-ache and so their phsyiological responces were heavily influenced by their psychological perceptive capacity. I never get head-aches- to the contrary. With a new code and a powerful motor (the intitial expirement was with a hand spun wheel- giving 75 RPM and 3 wave images (GIVING TREMENDOUS AND OBVIOUS RESULTS!!!!!!!!!!)- with a power motor I can get around 6,000-13,000 RPM and 204-520 wave images!!!) I look forward to this expirement...If I go crazy I'm sure u will find out one way or another. I've gotta run...hope to hear from u soon! Best Regards, Jozen-Bo kaneda12-23-07, 12:11 AMJozen-Bo. It is sometimes difficult to get across to other what is crystal clear to us. You have to use patience with others. Try keeping a diary of everything you feel about the experiences and life in general afterwards. I know this isn't drugs but messing with the mind under any circumstances might have bad consequences. The diary if written ASAP and checked regularly will help let you know if there is a psychological downside to what you are doing. Jozen-Bo01-02-08, 05:18 AMKandeda... Interesting advice...LOL... considering the what I am working with is a huge diary compounded into a year map on a spiralling canvas that acts like a calender for the days to record. Its sort of like a big spinning dairy!!! Aside from that I have 3 types of dairys... the day tracker, the portal, and the typical. I have already breifly described above the portal!!! The typical diary is just as u said... some reflective thoughts at the end of the day- I trust that u are familiar with this type of diary. The day tracker is sort of an emotionally detached technical dairy were I record things most others take for granted...did I brush my teeth? Am I eating rice or corn? What did I do and at what time? I need it because I cannot compound a typical diary into a sacred geometric langauge, for this I need the day tracker!!! I still include my feelings, but I don't need to record them, they remain etched in my memory longer then the details- and their information is encoded in the count and the color- very distinct! Of some interest...I needed to record and build a palette of color to complete my new code!!! It has been very difficult. The palette is divided into two regions, one records the general tendency of color mixing in form-paints, powders, liquids, even thick gasous clouds- all crystalized producers of color! This isn't too difficult, unless one isn't contempt to call blue blue- and distuinguishes stoneflower blue from azure blue. Then it can get trickier! Then comes the hard part!!! The second region of the palette describes the tendencies of the intangible world of color mixing- reveiling wave mixtures. This would be easy if I simply used the code of light...(red+green=yellow), but I needed especially the palette on how colors mix in a spin. I purchased I little fan, transformed it into a spinning maching, and created over 50 wheels containing color mixtures (red & green, blue & red, etc.) and then spun them to see what colors they make. I have spent the last several days observing, seeing colors qualities I've never seen in my life before!!! They take on a milky pureness- becomíng illuminated and more vivid. They are very hard to classify because they seem to change from on minute to the next, and the angle of observation is very important, as is the lighting. As the wheel spins faster, the colors become brighter...more illuminated...reaching new shade values and change...blue and yellow go into a pale green- I beleive they turn into a white with the faintest value of green when spun even faster. It will take time to extract the exact formula as to how their values change in accordance to their RPM value. Plus...they almost seem alive??? Why all this about color?...because it is one of the 3 aspects of the triad method of coding...numbers...shapes...colors. During the intitial phase of operation I focused on numbers and shaped. I need to now what to expect when two seperate colors fuse into one at spin- and now I have an approximate palette! There are other behaviors I must soon start to classify- how the patterns change at different speeds, rings expand-overlap, fuse, and vannish, the black hole in the center shrinks (under certain conditions) and flips to its opposite...a white hole expanding!, the waves rocking back and forth, the RPM level of sudden stabilization...(my guess at the moment is around 600), and more! Because I can find no information about this anywhere I have to get it myself...not easy! Now I pose u a question....Kaneda. I find that it is totally impossible to describe the phenomena of color using only 3 dimensions, even though it is a quality of light, a box (3d) is simply not enough to include it. I have been searching for days for the symmetry of color and finally I can vaguely see it in my mind, and it is clear that although it is governed by a interspacial wave measurement, it is something that has no real shape!!! Then its dimensional value is greater then 3!!! I don't even think 5 dimensions are enough to produce it- that what I call the 5th dimension of light is merely a carrier and transmitter of this stuff called color...it filters. This is extremely difficult to describe- if you spend maybe 30 days looking at over 3000 sites and sources of information regarding electro-magnetic energy- reading and reveiwing every picture- you'll understand why. So my question is this then...I believe that color cannot exist in a static universe...the 13 mother dimensions are colorless and totally invisible to any eye...period. In the relative 26 children dimensions of the universe of change they are experienced!!! I haven't focused my mind on this 26 dimensional realitie so much, so I can't say where they materialize...Walter Russel writes that the 15th dimension is that of color. If u had to describe colors in the terms of 3 dimensions...how would u do it? Could it be done? Without a mind to interpret...could we say that colors even exist? If the mind interprets, reflecting a holographic image of the forms encoded in the light, that hologram could not be experienced if it was merely form, it needs a minimum of some sort of shade value- the monochromatic scale- to convey any information at all...form covers the 3 dimensions- but form does not cover color (or even shade). U don't have to have an answer...its merely something to consider!!! By the way...the code is 99.9% finnished...I will begin within the week!!!!!!!!! Happy New Year (if the gregorian time system is your time guide), Jozen-Bo kaneda01-02-08, 11:41 PMI think the easiest way to describe any colour is to get the largest possible map of the visible spectrum with wavelengths assigned to it so you can give an approximate wavelength to any colour you see. It is handy in that if your colour sense is off slightly, it will directly relate to how you see the visible spectrum map colours, so be consistant with the wavelengths you give to any colours. As far as I know, colour is just a thing our brain assigns to emitted or reflected photons vibrating at a certain tiny frequency and would not be reliant on dimensions in the sense you say. It is possible that a being who saw by radio waves would perceive colours for different frequencies of the radio spectrum. Jozen-Bo01-04-08, 03:56 AMLet me re-angle the question. What is the shape of red or blue? It is obvious the white is somehow condensed and expanding whereas black is expanded and contracting...these two Primes are inverted in relation. If we sqeeze space it turns from black to white...empty to full. If the hues of the rainbow are merely assigned by the brain and have no actual basis in reality, then how does the brain do this? In what geometric format does it occure? I seem to be provided with the right books as soon as I ask the right questions. I combine everything I've gathered and begin to see it, but I can't describe it. Because we can measure how much red or blue or what proportions are contained in a mix using a spectrographic reader we cannot dismiss colors as being absent of dimensional value...Measurement=Dimension. But we cannot easily catagorize colors using simple geometric shapes such as balls and cubes. As u have said, a being who could see radio waves would also see a spectrum according to the wavelengths of each wave... Guess what... although I don't see much at this time, when I was using the mind portal an a daily basis my eyes underwent a transformation and I began to see ALL THE WAVES. This means I have seen with my eyes radio, infrare-red, ultra-violet, gamma, cosmic, zero-point (creepy), micro, and even viod waves. I began to experience light as if I were underwater, the sun's waves where evident, waves within waves within waves- no longer a blur. The experience is both beautiful and confusing... with so much information coming in even through the eyelids when the eyes are closed. I began to perceive realities existing on different vibrational tones- I began seeing through 'time' and seeing places too far to see- as if the information was stored in the light transmission and its hologram projected by my pineal gland into my mind's eye. I remember seeing in total darkness- no windows and no light- because my eyes could tune into the infrare-red light emited by the objects around- black and red shades. It doesn't stop there...I began seeing vibration waves and sound waves as they travel very fast- my mind was quick enough to catch. I would look at someone- and if they were thinking I could literally see the waves of vibration emited directly from their head. My brain began to act as a radio- I was picking up thousands of transmissions per a second- space is filled with communication. I can tell u what a thought looks like...what it is shaped like... but color is more difficult. I've seen even more then I can describe. After living in a mansion in the sky (my body adjusted), how could I desire to return to the shack of NOW (my body unadjusted). I can never go back to living a normal life...I don't want to. After tasting the fruit who wants to eat the dirt? I wish my wife understood this. We can say this...light moves. If it doesn't move- it ceases to be light and we do not see it. Even if it moves, we can normally only see a tiny little bit- a fraction of the entire spectrum. But motion is not enough- it gives us no form. And all light travels at the same speed- so we don't turn from green to white the faster we go. It helps to remember that the wave is a spiral (All waves are spirals and circles simultaneously) when viewed head on. it winds and spins and rotates through itself. The vesica piscis described in sacred geometry helps- two circles interloped. How much does the space bend into itself and at what angle? How condensed is it, how much does it overlap its own area? These help. Yellow is lots of fun...we can keep its value of hue mix...drop its illumination and it turns into an olive green- even though its wavelengths remain at the value of yellow- we see olive green. If we increase this- it turns to white. If u spin a blue and white medium fast enough u get a blue-green. Where does the green come from? This also occurs if u spin blue and black. The other colors mixed with black or white shades don't do this, at least not at the speed I was using. Color is coordinated by spin... all the little molecules that make matter are spinning and whirling so fast they seem like little orbs if magnified. There is nothing that we can see if it does not spin. So the geometric shape of light combines spin- like a double-helix- a cork-screw shape of space...and an amount of pressure, how condensed is the space that spins. It also includes parrellal spins...effecting the illumination of the experience. Any light that is heavily condensed with billions of parrelals appears white. Any light alone without any parrelels is to weak to be seen normally...black. Heres another way to put it...color filles the empty void everywhere. Motion is like opening a door so we can see through to the color of light. Electromagnetic energy gives us that motion...it is not the color- it is a door be which the color can be perceived. Juxtapose this statement with many many more and u get a clearer picture. I do not agree that the mind makes it up. I think that is a feeble answer giving by people who don't really understand- but don't want to appear unknowledgeable- so they pass along a scanty answer...from one generation to the next. If it were soley a product of the mind then I could make myself see blue and red by reorientation of thought. I once read that it is an expression of the One Universal Mind...which is only a part of the total truth. Why do I persist in this subject of light and color? It contains the secret of infinite power, freedom, immortality. All reality is founded in geometry...it is the most fundemental language of creation. It is more crucial then mathmatical numbers, without form we have nothing to count. Since I haven't been using the mind portal for over a year now...my mind is muddled... I have difficulty seeing what was recently clear. My senses are dull, deadened, retarded. But they are functioning better then most, when I compare myself to the masses, they are zombies. Though my understanding is not perfectly clear- it is not nearly as distorted as it is for most others... The blind men don't even see the elephant...the men with eyes see a blurry blob shape simular to the elephant. I see the elephant from the outside as an elephant...but not entirely, because it has an inside too. Without shape, it is formless. Without form it cannot be known. We know of color...therefore we should be able to track down its form. We are then able to find its relationship and connection to shape. This information is so powerful that with it we can throw away our dependence on external technology- no one can control us and we need nothing at all. It is obvious by my writing this that I am still relying on external techonology...meaning I don't have a clear picture in my mind. It isn't even vivid anymore. U are right, Kaneda, I have to be patient- what other choice is there. I can feel liberating knowledge in my genes that is dormant...asleep. Until it is time to blow I will keep on ticking. Until it is time to awaken I will keep on dreaming. Best regards, Jozen-Bo kaneda01-04-08, 11:25 PMAll EMR travels at the same speed but it is down to frequency/wavelength (basically the energy of the photon) on how we perceive it: http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s217/neufen/EMRspectrum.jpg Or in most cases do not perceive it as almost all of the spectrum is outside of our vision. A different colour is just like a higher or lower pitched sound. Forceman01-05-08, 03:52 PMPhysicists predict that the rest of the ten dimensions in in the zero dimensional point particles that coalesce in the atom. Therefore they haven't been discovered. Forceman01-05-08, 03:54 PMThe rest of the ten dimensions you are looking for are locked into the tiniest elementary particles of the atom, according to the superstring theory. blobrana01-05-08, 07:28 PMHum, perhaps we can refer to all the dimensions as the bulk. (its easier to write down) kaneda01-05-08, 10:59 PMThe rest of the ten dimensions you are looking for are locked into the tiniest elementary particles of the atom, according to the superstring theory. A bit like branes operating in a multiverse. It's still at the Lewis Carroll stage at present. Jozen-Bo01-09-08, 08:58 AMHas anyone ever heard of Micheal Greene? I had the honor of breifly meeting him in person during one of his seminars on dimensions and finding the link between gravitational forces and nuclear forces (both weak and strong). Basically we have found a way to combine the 3 forces that are not gravity into a mathmatical formula, but we can't get it to match up with the force of gravity. This is a man who has spent his whole life dealing with the subject, he is one of the USA goverment's top-notch physicists. He is capable of multiplying and dividing 34 digit numbers by 34 digit numbers (or was it 53?...can't remember)faster then even computers! A math giant!!! But he hasn't found what he is looking for, he can at best only approximate. As he put it...there are either 10, 13, or 26 dimensions- but not enough conclusive evidence to determine which. His main concern is finding a unifide theory. The guy also meditates...like the yogi's of India...helps keep his mind clear for those big equations. I asked him 3 questions...I was a kid back then...he told me they where excellent questions- gving me a strange look- I seemed to key in on the essential matters of concern (he didn't remark on the signifigacne of anyone else's questions that night). A warmly recieved complement coming from someone like him. What I find of most interest is that 13 and 26 both popped up. My perception is that in an absolute timeless universe...the creational womb...there are 13 dimensions that wholly yeild every potential. The 13th is also zero. Nothing moves and everything moves...there are no contradictions...only complements in a state of being the same. If we go back before the big bang...we where all at the same point, place, and time...as one nothing. The relative universe is double that...26 dimensions. But I don't have the mind of Micheal Greene to do math like this. I didn't even intend to perceive what I have. I was expirementing with geomety...spinning spirals with information in them. Remember 1910 when our great grandparents went to a movie theatre and saw a flash of coka-cola and popcorn while waiting for the movie to begin? Not one in million could say 'did you see that' but all of a sudden most of them got hungry and thirsty? Why? because the subconscious mind is much more alert then the conscious. Keening in on this awareness I figured that if you compound information into a geometric format and spin it..the same principal might apply...we'd see more then we saw and something would happen. As a result I began to 'see' the absolute Universe clearly...I don't need math to do the geometry, I need a clear mind. The problem with the 10 dimension theory is it completely overlooks thought!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We cannot describe thoughts by using a 3 dimensional coordinate...PERIOD!!!!! If anyone thinks otherwise...let them prove me the wiser! Indeed, most scientist seem to completely overlook the dimension of thought as if it were not even worth looking at...these are the one's that are seriously stuck. Thought combines form with color and emotion...so what are the coordinates when I think 'that is such an ugly shade of red that I must barf..' or 'that Rosy-Pink is a sexy Color on that lady- it makes me FEEL a sorting way'...? How can we say that are feelings are nothng more then 3 dimensional. There is a big difference between emotional pain and physical pain!!!! Heres a trick question...What color do Red and Green make? And what about Red and Cyan? I already know the answer...I'll give a big hint! There are at least 5 different ways to mix color! The first 2 are the best known...because we have the most experience with them...Light Waves and Paints. The other 3 are more subtle and much more difficult to balance out. There is the mixture of chemical reactions...such as Hydrochloric Acid and Baking Soda...put the two together and you get a foul yellow. Then there is the non-reactive pigmentation of molecules...paints and water colors that mix without changing their atomic form. Then there is the spinning of two colors....put red and green on a wheel and spin. Then there is the mixture of light...baby easy to calculate!!! Last and most difficult is the most subtle colors of ether and astral...because we don't normally see them nor do we have a means of scientificly detecting them...so they don't exist officially. An example of this sort of mixture is when two people stand next to each other and their auras interlope- this kind of mixture does not obey the rules like any other...and is itself sub-divided into even more regions- making it a brain breaker to solve and predict...(you have to percieve them first). The fun part is this...we cannot find a symetrical system if we use any of these color wheels alone... there is always some area uneven! But when we imposed these wheels together we get symmetry!!! It appears as a spiral!!! I have gathered enough information about color to proceed with my Emperiment and magnify the results. The pallete I have is a multi-set describing what to expect and where. It is not perfect...but it will have to do. In the future with the right equipment I can improve it dramatically...but we do not have the technonolgy on earth to make a perfect palette. So when it goes from 90% to 98% to 99% then I will have to except this limit. It appears that I must be going deeper into the portal this time...because strange things are occuring already...I'm beginning to see what normally cannot be seen...and I haven't even started yet. This happened before as well...I suspect that they are time ripples the spread out like a stone dropped in water...going back and forth and not in the classical linear sense we normally think. In other words...what I'm about to do is so intense its effects are trickling back through time. this normally isn't the case because people normally don't do anything so intense regarding DNA and Perceptive modification...in this case unlocking potential. At least I'll know in the future if I'm right about this now!!! Best Regards, Jozen-Bo blobrana01-09-08, 02:13 PMHum, i think that when he said he was Micheal Greene he didnt mean he was that colour. Jozen-Bo01-10-08, 07:03 AMNo. Micheal Greene is his name. It has nothing to do with the color green that I know of. It is mere chance that his last name is Greene and that I speak a good deal over colors. Let's not confuse this! cheif01-12-08, 02:21 AMNew to the thread. I have some thought on the subject though. Firstly, dimensions of existence are orthogonal, so order is arbitrary and ambiguous. I'm going to jot them down in the order I find the easiest to personally explain. I'm going to explain some of my perspective on some of the dimensions of existence through the metaphor of a game of chess. First, 2 dimensions of space (lets ignore depth in this argument to simplify the metaphor). The chess board is obviously a 2 dimensional construct with height and width. Next, a third dimension, Content: Each square has a value. That value is different based on the piece that resides in the square. A single dimension is a single meaningful value from the state of reality. That value does not need to indicate strict positional "location". Also, does not require a location to exist in. A pawn is a pawn in your opponents hand, just like it is when it's on the board. Next, a fourth dimension, Time: Imagine that two chess players are playing the game. And they make moves, one after the other. Someone is recording the moves so that they can replay the same game on another chess board some time later... that recording records time. Each time a player moves, the move increments. SO the first move makes way to the second move, which makes way for the third, and so on. If the players were so inclined, they could stop their game, and go backwards. I've you've played a game of chess, you've probably done that; undone your past couple moves. This indicates a change of state, specifically of time. A temporal change. But they can also go forward again to exactly the same position they were at before going back. Next, a fifth dimension, choice(chance): Now, suppose we've gone back a few moves in our chess game, and now one player decides to make a DIFFERENT move than they had made previously... now the person who was keeping notes on the game needs to branch those notes, because another game has suddenly sprung up out of nowhere. In fact, anyone taking notes in such a game of chess could conceivably need to keep a separate log for every possible move of every piece on every turn... For each different possible move there is an alternate reality that would need to be logged in order to traverse cleanly through them all... Chance is still orthogonal to time because there are not only choices that a player has to consider that he will make in the future, but a new player sitting in on the game would have to make choices when inferring what choices have already been made to get to this point. The state of the chess board at any given time is not just the sum of all of it's pieces, in their locations in 2D space, and the history (and potential future) of moves that brought them there, but it also is the sum of all of the POSSIBLE histories that could have lead to that state, as well as the possible future moves that players could make. Now, thats about as much as I can clearly explain using chess as a metaphor. Chess is a subset of reality that is missing a few important key ingredients... So lets consider the metaphor continuing as a 3D massively multilayer game, like World of Warcraft. It's similar to chess, in that there are pieces that exist in space, there is time, there is chance and choice, and all of it can still be logged, recorded, and theoretically replayed... SO already, we're accepting a 6th dimension, depth. (I'm going to ignore the fact that the reality and ruleset made some fundamental jumps for the moment. I know it could be a good excuse to conjure up another dimension, but I'm not happy with excuses...) So lets introduce a 7th dimension, perspective: Each player has a perspective of their own. They see different world chat, fight different monsters, have different experience levels, meet different players, and in many ways, experience the game as a separate reality from others. However, it is possible to log each of their experiences individually, and simultaneously from each of their own perspectives... like me watching you, writing down what you are doing. And what we both write down (or remember, or see, or think, etc...) will be different based on other dimensions (our positional location in 3D, the time we observe each other, and the choices that have led to our meeting), while at the same time relying on none of those things... the fundamental difference between you and me, beyond just location and history and content and value, just the fact that there is such a thing as "individuality", that illustrates perspective is another dimension. And you can move into another perspective, into another place in this perspective dimension, by changing your values in the other dimension. Just like two people can occupy the same physical space in 3D (by moving in and out of the same spot in time). Travel along this dimension, expansion of your perspective, can make you selfish and narrow minded at one extreme, or intoxicated in the realization of the brahman super-consciousness of reality at the other extreme... (pro tip: those who know both extremes advocate the middle path...) and thats about as far as I can reconcile in my mind without resorting so less logical metaphor, and more shock-and-awe and big-wordy-type statements... I'm still personally wresting with gravity, light, thought, the fundamental rule-set of reality, and the ever-pervasive concept of composition... I think they exist as orthogonal dimensions of existence somehow, but they seem almost contrived in my head at the moment, a little too intertwined and dependent on simpler and evasive fundamentals... cheif01-12-08, 03:27 AMi just realized that traveling between the subjective perspectives of individuals, and traveling to 'higher' or 'lower' perspectives in terms of scope, could be considered two orthogonal dimensions of perspective... namely, 'subjective position', and 'scope', both of which can exist without one another, and both of which can exist separately with various combinations of the other dimensions... (so that's 7, err 8)... for example, continuing the World of Warcraft metaphor, you could be a player, or drop down to be an item, or raise up to a piece of software running the server. Each of these states of scope would have completely different states of perspective (difference between different items, difference between different servers, etc...) cheif01-12-08, 04:25 AMSome thoughts in response to other earlier posts from this thread: On Time: Time is measured by the decay of matter. In other words, time is a function of entropy. Ask a scientist working with atomic clocks what time is, since they would be the experts. They will agree with that. I believe that We can only go forward in time as (mortal) living beings because change is the guiding force of life. If we stop changing, if we stop pushing around molecules in our bodies (creating entropy), we will no longer be alive to experience 'time'. Ask a doctor or biologist, and they will agree. I believe that we remember the past because the past is more concrete than the future (due to the the quantum wave collapse, which is due to human observation, specifically OUR OWN observation). Memory is a form of time travel, where we project our consciousness, at leas a part of it, to another temporal location. Also, I believe we as humans experience "deja vu", which is remembering the present or future, as a result of quantum wave *cascade*, due to observation... meaning, we observe one thing happening, and the amount of quantum variance possible after that observation is so limited, that multiple quantum waves break down to an almost concrete resulting wave, and we are able to 'remember' that immediate future, just like we would remember the concrete collapsed waves that define our past. Usually that 'memory' breaks down very quickly despite the quantum cascade, because the act of observing our 'memory' of the future changes it (tks uncertainty principle). If you wanted to go backwards in time, you would have to fight against entropy some how, and then you would STILL have to deal with the uncertainty principle as you were going backwards in time, because of all of the instances of reality that were not collapsed due to observation (all possible pasts). Forward in time again would be even harder, because you would be in a different reality, flowing WITH entropy... it would be much like trying to play the exact same game of chess twice, except with an infinite number of moves, in fast-forward motion. On color: I have this color wheel in my head that gives 'emotional intent' to colors in the color wheel... red: aggression, passion, (explosive) force, heat yellow: randomness, chance, energy, vibration, intense emotion, comedy green: nature, life, dynamic process, change, honesty, compassion cyan: knowledge, education, thought, information, fluidity, truth blue: null, subdued control, calm, stillness, cold magenta: artificial (guiding) force, lies, politics contrast (dark to light): the spectrum of openness, availability, or accessibility I don't consider myself a person who can actively "see" auras that people give off, but sometimes, I can "feel" them, and it makes sense to consider their auras on this color wheel... Jozen-Bo01-14-08, 05:26 AMCheif... Remarkable!!!!! I can easily imagine that your mind is making many jumps and skips as it zeros in on the essence of itself!!! A...B...C...D...G...X...Z. There is nothing wrong with this...it is a useful short cut! The only problem is that many people who do not have the ability to extract knowledge from between the 'lines' and rely heavily on linear logic will have difficulty understanding you...I also tend to jump about leaving gaps in between...they are there in my thoughts, but recording for me in this linear logical manner is way too time consuming! As of reading your input...I am easily able to expand it so there are no gaps in my own interpretation! The 10 most psychologically distinct color sensations in their purest hues are as follows (I have put WAY TOO MUCH TIME into researching and mediatating over this!!!!): 1 -Black 2 -Red 3 -Orange 4 -Yellow 5 -Green 6 -Cyan 7 -Blue 8 -Violet 9 -Magenta 10-White Putting these into a XY switchboard matrix and determining their exact values as they mix into each other is NOT EASY!!! (Black and Red=Maroon in paint and something else in spin). Orange and Violet are exceptional...they have enough impact on our perception to distinguish themselves in this order (and they both appear within the rainbow!!!). Black, magenta, and white are also expectional...they are like the Trinity of the colors absent from the rainbow (the rainbow...óne of the great riddles and teachers!). If we have no choice but allow Orange and Violet into this order...then we must also include these colors to complete it: chartreuse, torquiose, azure, and rose. Then the order looks like this: 1 -Black 2 -Red 3 -Orange 4 -Yellow 5 -Chartreuse 6 -Green 7 -Torqiouse 8 -Cyan 9 -Azure 10 -Blue (Indigo appears between blue and violet) 11 -Violet (sometimes refered to as purple..which is really a darker magenta) 12 -Magenta (often confused with pink or red...train your eyes!!!) 13 -Rose 14 -White Now put these onto a matrix...chessboard structure and see if you can mix them accurately and give the resulting mixtures their appropiate names!!! It is a trip where subjective and objective interpretation quickly make themselves obvious! Without this KEY one will have a difficult time navigating in the deepest regions of the mind portal...that is off course...if they have a mind portal and are actively transversing within it!!! I will have to get back to you when it comes to commenting on what you have said about the dimensions...sometime in the near future!!! Best Regards, Jozen-Bo Jozen-Bo01-14-08, 05:57 AMI though it might be helpful to include the RGB values for further clarification. # -Color (R,G,B) 1 -Black (0,0,0) 2 -Red (255,0,0) 3 -Orange (255,128,0) 4 -Yellow (255,255,0) 5 -Chartreuse (128,255,0) 6 -Green (0,255,0) 7 -Torqiose (0,255,128) 8 -Cyan (0,255,255) 9 -Azure (0,128,255) 10 -Blue (0,0,255) 11 -Violet (128,0,255) 12 -Magenta (255,0,255) 13 -Rose (128,0,255) 14 -White (255,255,255) Do your see the pattern??? The 12 colors on an expanded color wheel 'start' from red and 'end' with Rose...Black and White not included...but they are too powerful and important to exclude altogether (when converting the wheel into a matrix switchboard)!!! blobrana01-14-08, 06:19 AMLet's not confuse this! Sry, none of what you say, makes any sense to me. And i should add that i can see no point to your observations of colour, and how that relates to the sixth freedom or dimension. My suggestion is to forget about it before it sends you crazy. Jozen-Bo01-15-08, 03:29 AMSry, none of what you say, makes any sense to me. And i should add that i can see no point to your observations of colour, and how that relates to the sixth freedom or dimension. My suggestion is to forget about it before it sends you crazy. Blobrana, When I am moving fast within my thoughts, very few can make sense of what I say. There is a very valid reason to my development of this palette, if one can train their eyes to distiunguish between azure and cyan instantly, or between a red spin or a magenta and yellow makes red spin- then a tremendous space opens up for compounding information as it mixes with form in the mind map portal...the spiral calendar. But, since u haven't seen the calendar and have no idea what it is...how could you understand? You are right...it has not too much to do with the sixth dimension directly...the 6th dimension gives rise to position (of light within light)...light opens up into color. Sixth freedom??? What where the previous freedoms? I never spoke of a multitude of freedom. Though it seems evident that we are moving towards a greater state of being free. Also...Blobrana...color has much more to do with dimensions than you may be aware of. Working out the palette did drive me nuts...a frustrating puzzle indeed!!! But I'm have finnished it and therefore, it is no longer frustrating and has no chance of driving me nuts. I do appreciate your concern over the well-beingness of my 'sanity'. Thanks. I well give this topic of color a rest...unless I am questioned further about it. I have been getting way ahead of my self and there is no connect from A to Z. In the Absolute the 5th dimension is Light pervading All...throughout time and space...Timeless and Spaceless...it is Omnipresent. The 4th dimension is Etheric...a metaphysical realm that eventually becomes the physical realm. It is the place of the Ashaka Records, vibrational whirlwind vortexes of every living experience. Of the Absolute dimensions...the sixth is the position of light within itself. The vibrational spectrum that gives rise to color is part of its coordination. This is not easy to understand! I'm out of time and will have to pick it up later!...Sorry! Best Regards, Jozen Jozen-Bo01-15-08, 04:32 AMMight I add that there is a limit as to how far the logic/ration/reason can take us. This may sound absurd....unless one considers that it is the same with science. It is no secret that science has a serious limit...and can never fully illuminate or capture the entirety of truth. We will never break free from the bonds if we rely soley on scientific thought. The Heisenburg Principle is one great example as to the limits...study it if you don't know what it is. Another is the limit as to how big a number can get...at some point it ceases to be a number, has no meaning, and vannished into ambiguity. This is a mathmatical FACT!!! We can never know what that number is...just listing it would take up all the cyberspace, space, and fractal space on earth!!! From my perspective everything I encounter is a manifestation of the truth and therefore is true in some way. With this kind of perspective it is very important to ascertain where that truth lies, how valid is it to the present moment, and how does it relate to myself, since I conjured it into my experience. I am not trying to undermine the value of our logical mind. I find it clear that though it is limited, it is a nessecary step along the way. Without it we are stuck and if we get stuck on it then we are also stuck. So then, I might add, does any of this make sense to you (in other words...is it logical)? Best Regards, Jozen-Bo Jozen-Bo01-16-08, 02:51 AMKaneda, thanks for the advice...I probobly would of done as you said...but your saying it got me there a little earlier. I have expanded the original 10x10 color matrix consisting of the 10 most pyschologically potent colors...because, though these colors are the most universally recognized...the list was still crooked. I increased it as I wrote above...12 colors encased in black and white...making 14. Then I repeated this for 24 colors encased in black and white...giving a 26x26 matrix. Learning of the degree values of the color wheel...where red is both 0 degrees and 360 degrees has been very useful. Checking the colors and finding their names every 15 degrees from red...I found that there are 5 degree check points where there is no unique color name. It is hard to beleive that with so many people on earth and such a 'history' we still haven't giving these areas their own name??? Names like Red-Violet or Blue-Green suck hardcore...they are boring and a total turn off. How frustrating!!! So I have decided to give these blank areas names...so that a 24-color wheel has twenty-four unique names denoting each position. Choosing appropiate names is a mind wrack. I have 5 in mind...their meaning seems appropiate to fill in the gaps of the expanded rainbow...I'll post them later on today!!! Thanks again Kaneda for the insight!!! To Blobrana...If you where to try teaching a new born baby 1000 languages all at once...do you think it would understand? Be patient with yourself. As for me, I'm going to do whatever I want to...think however I want to...be as I choose!!! It's called freedom!!! I am enjoying the puzzle...I am not weak minded so something like this is of no danger to me!!! Besides...I have no fear. However, I must admit that it has cost me too much time...I am going to implement my plans immediately...as they have changed radically! Jozen-Bo01-16-08, 06:37 AMI've posted a new forum that gives the candidatial names for the 5 missing colors of a 24-color wheel system. Though the subject is much more related to dimensions then many might think (seriously), I will only respond to questions about color if asked directly from this point on in this forum. Best Regards, Jozen-Bo blobrana01-16-08, 06:55 AM@Jozen-Bo its ok i have already studied and know about space and time. (And strangely enough i also studied art and design.) But i would remind you that this is the Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology section you are posting to. For example, the main reasons why your speculations are meaningless is that there is no absolute background frame to space time, (ie, in space there is no up). In astronomy, the current thinking is that dimensions are freely interchangeable and result from an underlying geometry whose interactions between each other bring about interaction points, lines, and surfaces and holes that manifest themselves as tiny loops or strings. These loops, strings and surfaces, make up the four forces and all the particles we see (as well as the space that thy exist in). However, the application of colour` to fundamental particles has already been formulated. (you may already know about up and strange quarks, but there is a branch of physics that describes the strong interactions between quarks - the colour force - called quantum chromodynamics) But, speculating as to what exactly dimensions are, is pointless, (The standard explanation as to what dimensions are involve the blue fairy). So while your ideas may be of use in colour coordinating my house, as far as cosmology goes the blue fairy theory wins easily. Jozen-Bo01-16-08, 08:46 AMBut, speculating as to what exactly dimensions are, is pointless, (The standard explanation as to what dimensions are involve the blue fairy). So while your ideas may be of use in colour coordinating my house, as far as cosmology goes the blue fairy theory wins easily. @Blobrana can you tell me that you know ALL about space time? If not, then who? Is there an authority an this subject? I might remind you that I didn't start this forum, I merely found it interesting and replied. You are mistaken about the background frame. It is nothing itself which is the frame of everything. Start there!!! What is nothing? How did nothing become something? Why, beacuse we can go no further...in space or time. (There is nothing in space...and all around it). In space...up is the motion against gravity. On earth we say point up and we fall down. Up is a relative term and cannot exist without a source of attraction...a down (or a callapse). Sure, you can say I am speculating. I have no formulas nor theorys that can be prooving wrong. I have something far stranger...a Mind Portal. I haven't been making this up based on guesses...I have been directly observing this phenomena from within the portal and trying to figure out how to describe what I see with my perception. This portal is very powerful...have you ever seen a radio wave with your own eyes? I have many times over!!!! Maybe it is a speculation to say I am writing this on a computer...I see a computer and my fingers type. That's how it is with what I describe...I speak from direct observation...not number guessing games. Its like trying to describe what someone looks like...without using numbers and formulas. (He was this tall, had blue eyes, freckles, etc.) As for the dimensions, from what I have seen within this portal...they are not interchangable, whereever there is one there are all the others...to the very finest point. Certain aspects become dominate over others, without totally annhilating them, sorta like genes. It is these dominating and submissive features that are interchangeable...you can't switch the first with the fifth, at best the dominating proportions can alter, and then this gives you those points, lines, loops, particles, vortexes, holes, etc. The application of 'colour' to fundemental particles has already been formulated...yes. And after steadying it from many different sources it is clear that no two sources entirely match up with each other. It is a scanty theory, incomplete and unsatifyng. There are too many gaps and no enough balance. But its (many different versions) the best thing we got. I have looked much into quantom chromodynamics, I already know about quarks and quarons, going into the energy strings themselves. As to my 'speculations' being meaningless and pointless, then try telling me what it is I see within this Portal...especially considering I seriously doubt you yourself have been there!!! I would bet my family jewels that you don't even know what this Portal is or how it works. Have you studied Chaos Science? It is very important that you do if you haven't. You won't get very far without it. Also, I have studied everything I could, from science to religion to art, culture, cooking, macrobiotics, martial arts, music, blah blah, on and on, etc!!! Operating this portal requires a broad study. I admit...that there are bits missing here and there, but can you can say you know everything? How good are your senses? Can you see over 50 types of energy with your eyes? Can you hear a penny fall through the air a half a mile away? Can you taste the blood of others simple by looking at them? I mean this not as a prick...I am being sincere. I am not claiming to be a genius here...I am no different, better, or worse then anyone or anything alive. Genius is not something that belongs to anyone. You might say I'm very lucky or very intune with myself. As for the blue fairy...this is news to me. I will investigate it soon. Thanks for the lead!!! Also, I was never competing to 'win'. My mind doesn't work like that. Everything has meaning to me. No one can determine the meaning of life for someone else! We define our own lives and give them meaning!!!! I like things pointless...always making a point bites. Have you ever known someone who doesn't stop saying the point is...the point is...what is the point...your not getting my point...blah...blah. Do you get the point (LOL)? blobrana01-16-08, 09:22 AMHum, This thread is about what is the 6th Dimension is. The answer has already been given, and there is ample information about dimensions using a simple google search. Jozen-Bo01-17-08, 05:53 AMBlobrana, you are right...thee is a great deal of information about the 6th dimension popping up all over the internet!!! GOOD GOD GOOD!!!! Certiantely not all of it matche up perfectly...but the dimension beyond the 3rd are so difficult to fathom that we need each other in order to understand them. There is no single authority here... noone who can say they have capitilzed on this knowledge! There is a sight called the sixth dimension and I am very impressed by it! Its poster describes things differently then I do...the best answer comes from combining mine with 'his'. This extends to many others as well. Did you think it would be so easy??? As his sight states...the 6th dimenson has a great deal directly to do with color!!!! How interesting...after you have said that it doesn't. Am I alone...no!!!! I am being to humble. I am more then I seem! His description of the seventh was also very interesting... it differs from mine but also helps to complete my own answer given. The middle of the middle is certainly the focal pont of light!!!! It is where the edge becomes the middle, this applies to everything with an edge (which is more of a blur). Every field and every atom.quaron.quark.string.vortice.attraction! The edge of the atom is also the middle!!! And as above so below!!! Meaning that our entire universe is like this...the edge is the middle!!! Off course we are talking about light...about energy...which is always changing. ''It it doesn't change it is not energy''...these words I borrow from Nickolai Tesla. So...suprise!!! I have a question for you...I am very interested in learning more about the Blue Fearie Theory. Can you give me a good website to get started? I would appreciate it...Thanks. Best regards, Jozen blobrana01-17-08, 08:05 AMThe Blue Fairy was of course the fictional character in Steven Spielberg's film "A.I”,. It is sometimes used To describe something that is pointless and cannot be proved to exist. For example, we have a theory of gravity, but i could invent another theory that involved tiny blue fairies that worked equally as well but didn't make any new predictions or was unverifiable. Fun, but ultimately pointless. But having said that, Theoretical physicists often experiment with dimensions—adding more, or changing their properties—in order to describe unusual conceptual models of space, in order to help better describe concepts of quantum mechanics. Read more (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimension) Here is another link : Quantum chromodynamics (abbreviated as QCD) is the theory of the strong interaction (colour force), a fundamental force describing the interactions of the quarks and gluons found in hadrons (such as the proton, neutron or pion). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_chromodynamics Jozen-Bo01-19-08, 05:34 AMThe Wickepedia is awesome. You can quickly look up anything there. I find gluons, quarks, and quarons so interesting. Yeah, they have a lot to do with color- I think anything that is anything has a color to it. If there is no color- there is nothing. A black hole is black. We say thats not a color- but it is distuinguished in relation to color. I see it as part of the Entire Spectrum- not just the magnetic visible part. Black and White are like doors that open and close- with all the colors in between. Then, even photons and photon wave contain color...not just quarks and quarons. Color is a property that is not exclusive to one phenomena. What that site reveals is the nature of how objects produce colors in relation to their internal geometric structure, indicating that color and geometry are inseperate. So then...what is the shape of RED? I've never seen a picture of the shape of red. Drawing little waves doesn't do it- we could draw the same waves with green. Its unfinnished business and any chromodynamic expert knows this!!! Back to the sixth dimension. If the 5th dimension is light, then the sixth dimension would probobly have a lot to do with color. Can we say we know all the dimensions of a Quark? Micheale Green and Steven Hawkin both talk about them vibration in higher dimensions. They are not along. There are a many scientists who believe they vibration and move in dimensions we can scarcely apprehend. I don't think we will ever apprehend it with a math formula- unless we can see it first!!! That's the only way the mind can really understand something- if you can't visualize the formula you are working with- you don't really understand it! I describe the sixth dimension as being the position of light within itself. The position of light within itself yields and determines the geometric format that screens the virtuosity of color through. All quarks and quarons are made of light- positioned within themselves. That is sixth dimensional- and that is how their color is determined. The information contained in the Wickepedia does not contradict any of this. A big problem with dimensions is we don't have a picture in our heads as to when to use which variable for what coordinate. We are generally left guessing- and playing number games. Unless we can see it at least with our minds- we will always be stuck! cheif01-21-08, 03:15 PMJozen-Bo I'm not alone in my lack of comprehending what it is you talk about sometimes. You use vague terminology that seems known exclusively by you, without offering a definition or metaphor explaining it. When people question you about it (which arguably in your favor, their confusion is not always tactful), you repeat yourself with more undefined concept, and reaffirm yourself as being more enlightened... I'm not questioning your enlightenment. You obviously have some kind of grasp on the metaphysical, but... I would appreciate if you could bring yourself to the perspective of someone uninitiated, and point them in the right direction, rather than shouting at them from where you are. For example, offer a scenario to meditate on. (example): ---------------- I perceive color along with intent in three dimensions. note: heavy use of the concept of color interpolation... google search "simple color interpolation" and click the first link for an example. (I can't post URLs yet, need to make 17 more posts!) Imagine a cubic room that you have the ability to float in at will. You sit in a black corner at the bottom, near the 'front' of the room. You are sitting on the ground, your back is against the 'front' wall, and another wall is on your left. Turn your head to the right, and see along the wall (behind you), the bottom corner between the wall and the floor is Green. It evenly interpolates from black where you are sitting to a very bright neon green (0,255,0) at the other side of the wall. Face straight, and see that the corner between the 'left' wall and the ground is red, interpolating from black where you are sitting to a bright red (255, 0, 0) at the wall opposite you. Look up, and see that the corner between the wall behind you and to your left wall is blue, interpolating from black at the ground to a bright blue (0, 0, 255) at the ceiling. Each wall is an even interpolation of all of the colors between those in the corner. The corner you are sitting at is black, and dark. The corner at the ceiling on the opposite side of the room is white. the wall to your left (clockwise from lower left) is black, blue, magenta, red the wall behind you is (counter clockwise from lower right, as though you were facing it) is black, blue, cyan, green the ground (clockwise from left, behind you) is black, red, yellow, green the wall in front of you is (clockwise from lower left) red, magenta, white, yellow the wall to your right is (clockwise from lower left) yellow, white, cyan, green the ceiling is (looking up, counter-clockwise from upper left) blue, magenta, white, cyan There are 8 corners in this room. The one you are in is black, the one in front of you is red. the one to the right of the red corner is yellow. the one on your right is green. the one on the ceiling to your right is cyan. the one directly above you is blue. the one on the ceiling in front of you (above red) is magenta. The one on the ceiling in front of you and on the right is pure white. Each color on each wall cleanly interpolates with the colors next to it. And you realize that the air is a fine mist, who's colors are also clean interpolations between the colors on the walls. You notice that the path between you in the dark corner and the white corner is a straight gray line, cleanly interpolating between black and white. You can float in this room, and as you move to corners, different moods strike you: * the red corner makes you feel forceful and impassioned. As you approach the red corner, your first instinct is to be repulsed by it because of the raw, almost violent energy coming from the room. * the yellow corner turns that fire into more useable energy, and you feel the need to expend energy just for the heck of it. to laugh, and dance, and smile, and talk (not necessarily the truth), and babble like a maniac. * as you approach the green corner, you feel like you need to use your energy for the purpose of existing. you must live your life, eat, grow, find a mate, have children, get sick, get better, feel the earth between your feet and clean air in your lungs... * so now you ascend. as you approach the cyan corner on the ceiling, you realize that there is fundamental logic and truth in this universe, and you seek to understand it (and possibly share it if you are close enough to the green corner). * from here, you float to the blue corner, and realize the nihilistic reality of existence, and impermanence, and the ultimate equality of all things, whether they be alive or dead. You want to just stop. Preserve what you have, for the sake of order and peace. * as you approach the magenta corner, you feel a need to control your reality. You want to use your facilities as a living creature to mold the world around you to your will (without much regard for the world around you). * floating towards the white corner brings you to a nirvana-like truth. All things are clear, and the simultaneous illusion and reality of existence is exposed. You feel the interconnectedness of all life, the nihilistic impermanence, along with the importance of the single moment, the raw power of things, the vibrating joys, the clarity of knowledge, the perfect application of force, ... But it is so white and blinding that it is difficult to act. And you are lost in self-indulgent euphoria. The feeling in the white corner brings a sense of longing for the 'imbalance' of the others. (imbalance in this sense is more like voltage than like a see-saw) * as you move back to the black corner, everything starts to fade away, and your consciousness becomes more alone, ignorant, and primal. But just as the white corner, there is a perfect simplicity that equalizes you. ----- So Jozen-Bo, what is this mind portal that you keep referring to? Jozen-Bo01-22-08, 09:42 AMCheif "I'm not alone in my lack of comprehending what it is you talk about sometimes." I can't blame you. I find that the English (and probably every other) language is inadequate to fully describe some of the things I experience or sense. Many of the words I use have a very different meaning to me then to most. We are not using a common terminology, though the language is the same. I studied the 21st century unabridged dictionary, noting that many words have more then one meaning (most commonly 5-7, but sometimes as many as 30-40)). I also redined some of them by myself, so I would have a sense of terminology to work with, when trying to describe (in thought) to myself some of the observations that I have had. For example 'death' has over 25 meanings to me, most people associate it with 1. When I use the world death, in order to be more precise, we would need 25 words for each type. This applies to many, many words. To make matters more difficult (sorry), when I hear words I associate every possible meaning as they combine, creating matrixes of meaning out of every sentence. That is how my mind works, it was not easy to get it that way. It does allow my to explore a vast amount of possibilitys much faster then the normal means, which is one meaning at a time, but it also leads to what seems to be vague terminology that is often exclusive to me. I often skip metaphors, because they slow me down. I sometimes forget that others need a more linear ABC logical approach to follow, as it is a habit of mine to zip through a tremendous amount of possibilities. Sometimes I forget people don't always have familiarity with the sames things I do, and I take this fact for grant. That said and done, how many different meanings might this very paragraph contain? I can clarify with great skill if I focus enough to and the question isn't too vague to begin with. ''You use vague terminology that seems known exclusively by you, without offering a definition or metaphor explaining it. When people question you about it (which arguably in your favor, their confusion is not always tactful), you repeat yourself with more undefined concept, and reaffirm yourself as being more enlightened...'' I just wrote a responce to the first part of this parapgraph. Sometimes a series of questions will be much more effective then just 1. Yes, I do repeat myself sometimes, so does everyone else on earth (repitition is a very important part of learning). I might be referring to concepts that I alone have defined, and forget that my audience hasn't. No wonder they can't follow. If it seems I am reaffirming to myself as being more enlightened...I apoligize. I am somewhere the other people aren't, therefore I see things differently, from the inside and not the outside. Its like a rabbit in a laboratory. The scientist makes all sorts of observations, but can the rabbit talk for himself about the experiences. I can, but its not going to be entirely and instantly comprehensive. Its part of the outside inside boundary of communication. Sorry. I don't think I would admit to being enlightened if I were. I will say I am trying to see with that clarity we call enlightenment. I can't think of anyone on earth who is 100% enlightened, can you? I know a lot, my general knowledge is incredible, I have been studying non-stop since Uni. I read a broad spetrum of book subject material. Anything that comes my way I consider to be a gift from God, who says without words 'here is the next book for you to study'. I then read it as if to disect it word for word, using the same word matrix method I just described. Each book I read provides tremendous insight. We cannot get a good picture if we only look at one peice of the puzzle! I have no specail knowledge, with one exception. "I'm not questioning your enlightenment. You obviously have some kind of grasp on the metaphysical, but... I would appreciate if you could bring yourself to the perspective of someone uninitiated, and point them in the right direction, rather than shouting at them from where you are. For example, offer a scenario to meditate on." I'll try harder in the future to follow your advice. ----- "So Jozen-Bo, what is this mind portal that you keep referring to?" I have started a new thread. Type in Jozen-Bo under search and go to the Mind Portal!!! I went way overboard with the opening, without considering the position of my audience. So be warned if I sound zealous and fanatical. I am learning to give less at a time, so as not to confuse anyone. I don't know what possessed me to write the opening like that...that's not normally how I represent myself...even if I am difficult to follow. I tried to edit it, but can't do it anymore. I can say it expresses what I feel and believe to be true, but I should of and would of kept it to myself normally. Too late. If you read on you'll see my approach is changing, more humble. I am learning whatever I can from the people who associate with me, no matter where they are. By respecting everyone I find I can learn better from them. I might blow up here and there, there are many complicated factors in my life and I get stressed out from time to time. I have an explosive nature to say the least. I find it funny that last night I was thinking about what you wrote about the chess metaphor and then the next day you show up. It is an interesting and useful metaphor. My dad and I use to play chess a lot. He was a world master ranking in the top 100. He quite...cost too much time to keep up with it. Do you play chess? cheif01-23-08, 12:39 AMThe tone that you ended your last post on was better than where you started. Thank you for sharing more about your mind portal, I appreciate it. I'm going to read it in a few moments. But first, I'd like to share some thoughts on your last post before i lose them. On the multiple meaning of words: Poetry exists as it does for a reason. Context frames the meaning of an old thought and gives it new life. On communication with other human beings: (I wrote this immediately after reading "Sorry.", which seemed insulting to me. The response is a little bit heated, but it gets a point across that I've had stewing in my mind since I started reading your posts.) If you really are enlightened, then I shouldn't have to explain the fallacy of that statement. You are EXACTLY where everyone else is. Stop and think on that. Take a moment to see it with your mind's eye... You and everyone else are merely separated by folds of the same multidimensional consciousness. At this level, fundamental differences between you and I, or you and anyone else, are negligible. Infinite and negligible. Now, from this perspective, wonder "Do I want to know? Do I want to hear it understandably broken down?" On Chess: I used to play a lot of chess. But, I met a guy who could beat me in chess on a consistent basis. But he essentially quit chess, in favor of Go... In disbelief, I tried to understand why. Then I played a few games, and discovered it. Compared to Go, chess is a child's puzzle. Since then, I've had a hard time seriously motivating myself to improve my chess game, or to play at all (except when challenged in a social gathering). The example I gave with Chess was actually one I realized first with Go, though I scaled it to chess for the sake of accessibility of the metaphor. Chess is simply more commonly known (in the western world), which is where I assumed this audience would be from. Now, off to The Mind Portall!!! Jozen-Bo01-23-08, 06:35 AM'The tone that you ended your last post on was better than where you started.' I go through phases. 'Poetry exists as it does for a reason. Context frames the meaning of an old thought and gives it new life.' Insightful! I used to write a lot of peotry when I was younger! I imagine if you have as well they would be worth reading. "You are EXACTLY where everyone else is. Stop and think on that. Take a moment to see it with your mind's eye... You and everyone else are merely separated by folds of the same multidimensional consciousness. At this level, fundamental differences between you and I, or you and anyone else, are negligible. Infinite and negligible. Now, from this perspective, wonder "Do I want to know? Do I want to hear it understandably broken down?"" You are way ahead of the ball game! I have known this for some time, but how do I explain it to others so they might understand? It is challenging, there would have to be much preparation and patience. I once wrote a Peom... We are all the same Being, being not at the same time. We are all at the same time, being not as the same Being. I am certain you will understand this peom. "I used to play a lot of chess. But, I met a guy who could beat me in chess on a consistent basis. But he essentially quit chess, in favor of Go... In disbelief, I tried to understand why. Then I played a few games, and discovered it. Compared to Go, chess is a child's puzzle." The world's oldest game is so simple and yet so complex. I love GO, but don't have too many to play against, most (in this area) don't understand it. Everything you have said about GO accurate. It would be interesting to have a go at go agianst you. Cheif, I appreciate everything you are saying. You are very observent and obviously much older then your body. The ability to make spiritual leaps is essential to releasing the truth. As they say in Maya: In La' Kech decantemix02-02-08, 01:56 PM:soapbox: Tiff. Amusement. Last I heard, which it's been awhile, there were 47 workable dimensions. 4 std time. With additional degrees of freedom introduced along planes, and within internal space. It's like drawing a coordinate system with pencil and paper, only you introduce as many lines as you want. Instead of a 3D representation that is most standard. The reason 47 was the stopping point (after all you can draw infinite lines, right) was due to computational power. It may be assumed that things like 5+ dimensions would consist of invisible states, of course. Which you could easily interpret as energy waves. Much like this post will be seen by you through data transfer, and reconfigured so you can interpret this. I don't hand you a letter. Energy (electricity in this case) is modified as a transport. And made visible. The energy wave is the point. It exists, and functions, but you cannot see it. Dr_Zinj02-12-08, 07:54 PMThere are however many dimensions we need to create a model to accurately describe the universe. Length, width, height are measureable spacial dimensions. Time is a fourth dimension. Time being kind of strange in that we are always sitting at the zero point, with the past behind us and the future in front of us. Any spacial dimension can be converted into a different spacial dimension by rotation of 90 degrees. All these pop ?fiction? ideas of time travel talk about rotating 90 degrees into the time dimension as if it were a spacial one. Definately not sure what the added dimensions used by Heim, Droscher, and Hauser in their theory would be called. Variable or imaginary don't quite feel right. I'd almost go for virtual except that term has been hijacked by the information technology folks. Jozen-Bo05-17-08, 04:34 PMThere are however many dimensions we need to create a model to accurately describe the universe. Length, width, height are measureable spacial dimensions. Time is a fourth dimension. Time being kind of strange in that we are always sitting at the zero point, with the past behind us and the future in front of us. Any spacial dimension can be converted into a different spacial dimension by rotation of 90 degrees. All these pop ?fiction? ideas of time travel talk about rotating 90 degrees into the time dimension as if it were a spacial one. Definately not sure what the added dimensions used by Heim, Droscher, and Hauser in their theory would be called. Variable or imaginary don't quite feel right. I'd almost go for virtual except that term has been hijacked by the information technology folks. Virtual? What are the differences in the dimensions of a virtual image and a non-virtual image? invert_nexus05-18-08, 07:29 PMWhew. If any thread ever deserved to be dumped square in pseudoscience, this one does. All ashore that's going ashore. Kerrr-SPLASH!! Jozen-Bo05-19-08, 03:28 PMPlacing this into Pseudo science doesn't mean that is is pseudo science, it means that YOU recognize it as such. So, I have a question then...since when did dimensions and investigating dimensions become a none scientific topic? This seems rather a poor decision on your part...not even BenTheMan dumped this even after I blew up on him, it survived a long time as being classed under Astronomy (I think), before your changed the topic to your choice. Personally, I always thought that it was funny this was in Astronomy, I myself figured it belonged elsewhere. But making the topic of Dimensions out to be a Pseudo science??? Maybe you can tell all the scientists who theorize that because they aren't testing they are indulging in pseudo science whenever they inquire about the nature of higher dimensions. I don't think they will listen to you, but maybe you have a good punch line to sell your point? Reiku05-20-08, 12:48 AMWell said. invert_nexus05-22-08, 08:04 PM"You're nuts." Agreed. Reiku05-22-08, 09:27 PMGranted, from a being who possibly came from a fruit n' nut selection himself. Roman05-24-08, 01:09 AMHas wes posted his graphic for dimensions above 3? It's pretty fucking meaningless. And hilarious. It's an arrow that curves with dimension 0 at the tail and n+1 at the head. heh. Jozen-Bo05-24-08, 02:15 PM"You're nuts." Agreed. Invert Nexus...are you still trying to find people to worship you just because you show them a picture of your eyes? I'm sorry, but that is nuts, and they aren't that pretty. Can you back yourself up with reason, or is that not one of your specialties? Oh yeah...care to tell us all about the dimensions...Mr. know-it-all? moementum705-28-08, 02:18 AMString theory predicts 10 dimensions. A good clip of current theory and perceptions. Brian Greene: The universe on a string http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/251 Jozen-Bo05-29-08, 03:20 PMString theory predicts 10 dimensions. A good clip of current theory and perceptions. Brian Greene: The universe on a string http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/251 Brain Greene is AWESOME!!! I met him in person...he is sponsored by the government. If inverted nexus had his way...Brian Greene's work would be reduced to pseudo science. Are you paying attention inverted nexus...why not see if you can go convince Brian Greene and the people who sponsor him that they are nothing but a bunch of pseudo scientists? Oh...yeah...it can't be done...its good for a laugh when I visualize inverted nexus trying to use his worship me eyes to convince these people to subvert themselves to being moderated as pseudo scientists. LOL! Dr_Zinj06-09-08, 10:31 AMFigures or locations in a 2 dimensional space are described with equations like x+y=1 or x^2+y^2=3 1 variable for each dimension; in this case, x and y. For a 3 dimensional space, where most of us experience on a daily basis, you add another variable to the equation such that, x+y+3z=9 or even 2x^2+5y^2=z^2 For a 4th dimensional space, where most of us live and think in, you add another variable to the equation. x+y+z+t=100 From a mathematical standpoint, you could have an infinite number of dimensions. While you can keep on adding variables, once you're past whatever number of variables you need to describe something, you're just adding on unnecessary, irrelevant, imaginary dimensions. For all I know, you could say that your are ?standing? at point 1x,1y,1z,1t,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 in a Heim described universe and if you choose to add another dimension so that you are now ?standing? at ?location? 1x,1y,1z,1t,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0n and then move to ?location? 1x,1y,1z,1t,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1n then you've moved from our universe to the universe of OZ. If you have x,y,z,and t for the normally perceived and experienced universe; then the various probabilities for a particle might constitute one or more additional variables, or dimensions. If the number of positions a particle can exist in is infinite, then perhaps the number of dimensions is infinite. But, if the number of positions a particle can exist is limited to specific zones (similar to energy states) then perhaps there is a limit to the number of dimensions. Now I've really got a headache thinking about all this. If I could figure out how to write it all down and describe it correctly with good mathematical models, it might make a usable doctoral thesis. Jozen-Bo06-10-08, 01:14 PMFigures or locations in a 2 dimensional space are described with equations like x+y=1 or x^2+y^2=3 1 variable for each dimension; in this case, x and y. For a 3 dimensional space, where most of us experience on a daily basis, you add another variable to the equation such that, x+y+3z=9 or even 2x^2+5y^2=z^2 For a 4th dimensional space, where most of us live and think in, you add another variable to the equation. x+y+z+t=100 Finally, the word variables appears! After quite some time too. The possible variables have already been discussed, yet not in the fashion as identifying them as such. From a mathematical standpoint, you could have an infinite number of dimensions. While you can keep on adding variables, once you're past whatever number of variables you need to describe something, you're just adding on unnecessary, irrelevant, imaginary dimensions. If we use a non-linear algorithm that involves as little variables as possible to describe every possible sequence of form itself, in each of its incredibly vast sum of states, then we have found the limits. For all I know, you could say that your are ?standing? at point 1x,1y,1z,1t,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 in a Heim described universe and if you choose to add another dimension so that you are now ?standing? at ?location? 1x,1y,1z,1t,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0n and then move to ?location? 1x,1y,1z,1t,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1n then you've moved from our universe to the universe of OZ. Well said. In such an equation, the difference between 1 universal position and another would appear at difference points as this non-linear equation would bifurcate into random occurring sequences, which would in turn continue to bifurcate into unpredictability. A very important question is, how does this equation itself change over time? We are talking about an equation here that has no end, no solution ever. Over time its variables chart out a pattern, this pattern is existence. We could only at best, if we manage to figure this equation see so far ahead before it blurs into chaos. If you have x,y,z,and t for the normally perceived and experienced universe; then the various probabilities for a particle might constitute one or more additional variables, or dimensions. If the number of positions a particle can exist in is infinite, then perhaps the number of dimensions is infinite. But, if the number of positions a particle can exist is limited to specific zones (similar to energy states) then perhaps there is a limit to the number of dimensions. The dimensions are curving and bifurcating themselves as they climb the ladder. There are more possibilities within an X and Y relationship then only the X itself can provide. As this continues, if one can follow the behaviors, they find the whole curve of curves to be a massive exponential leap or change within the equation, at some point it changes radically. How many possibilities are there before the exponential leap is reached? This gives the answer, as that exponential leap is Infinite. Just as a formula can pound out exponentials and parabolas and keep going, these dimensional variables in this non-linear equation too, can jump at intervals to expand and reach off into Infinity. The pattern of these intervals where exponential jumps are occurring itself would contain a pattern that changes. The same pattern that appears in the Long Term would also be seen in the short term. What happens at a local scale would also be occurring at the Grand Scale. The limit worth defining is the last two variables where the leap occurs. If after 12 runs or variables all possibilities have been reached, then at 13 we hit Infinity, the Exponential leap, the Parabola in our never ending non linear algorithm equation. Its almost like a heart beat! Now I've really got a headache thinking about all this. If I could figure out how to write it all down and describe it correctly with good mathematical models, it might make a usable doctoral thesis. Yeah, you'd might also be controlling the Entire Universe with your mind. You would have to see crystal clear for that, I don't know if you could write that fast? SO MUCH happens between 1 second and the next. These are the variable I have sensed: 0 -Zero, Void, not there 1 -Distance, Lineal, Thread 2 -Flat...Curving along a flat plane 3 -Radial...Curving a flat plane 4 -Ether...Curving space into vortexes 5 -Electromagnetic....Curve spacial vortexes and you have the Entire Light Spectrum 6 -Localization...Curve the spectrum and you have localization and COLOR. 7 -Orbital Fields...When the locality is curved further, it creates the orbital paths outside of physical particles, the field. Curve the field inward and the orbital begins to fill. We are withing vortexes within vortexes. 8 -Charge...As the field charges up, its charge affects nothing outside of it. This charge is how the field curves and these curving states are increasingly excited. This means there is more going on here, more space pushed into less amount of space. As a charge becomes more curved, it bifurcates into into unpredictability. 9 -Chaos, unpredictable, random. This doesn't mean it is totally random, if the chances increase as it continues to curve in predictable ways, then the chances decrease that it will suddenly curve into a whole new unlikely shift, as bifurcations build rapidly in this state. As this curves it becomes more predictable, until it stabilizes and crystalizes into thought. All matter is just thought. 10-Thought...as the unpredictable direction reaches a predictable outcome, this outcome it the thought of the dimensions, which founded upon not even space itself. When this crystalized wave (which is now in a particle phase, it began with the orbital field) curves anymore, it collapses into gravity. 11-Gravity...is just a collapsing thought within and of the particle as this particle collapses and the variables interrelate within each other. If the thought is collapses (into a vortex) it encounters other versions of its state and becomes conscious that it just happened. Otherwise the thought couldn't change nor define itself upon reflection. The thought is conscious of itself from the most probable warped variations of its previous state. 12-Consciousness...Vortex is now curving through itself in ways that an untrained mind, such as Inverted Nexus, cannot possibly follow without rigorous exertion. You won't understand what I am saying unless you don't mind a little blood in the brain. Consciousness, like all the variables before it, forms a network spectrum of potential states. As Consciousness curves into, everything, every wave, every particle, every position in space, curves and bifurcates into an exponential leap. 13-Infinity...Consciousness comes alive here and dies at the same time. Why? Because Infinity is Zero. If these two are the exact same, then all we have is distance...and from 0 comes 1. Jozen-Bo06-10-08, 01:20 PMPlease note that Inverted Nexus has not added any value to this thread. He has offered no insight nor words of his own regarding dimensions, only judgment, and poor judgment I will add. Anyone who is sincere about understanding dimensions will quickly be able to note his words offer no value whatsoever regarding the question posed by Xeno long ago. If he cannot contribute anything, then I cannot regard his opinion on these matters as worth listening to. Yeti08-28-08, 01:03 PMI believe I found the sixth dimension. The Sixth Dimension is your mind. Reiku08-28-08, 01:07 PMThe sixth dimension may not even exist, and even if it does, it's not your mind. It's a compact dimension, which can contain its own galaxies. AlphaNumeric08-29-08, 05:46 AMThere we have normal Einsteinean spacetime, with 3+1 dimensions of spacetime. The fifth dimension is a bit more stranger. It directly interacts with electromagnetic charges in spacetime, and if something was able to move about in this dimension, things woulds contract to the size of a superstring and then back again. Even stranger still is that they haven't gone anywhere at all! In the sixth dimension, are supermicroscopic universes, or at least, this is what Hyperspace predicts. In other words, baby universes are curled up into infinitesimal sizes in the sixth dimension of spacetime. I don't know about the seventh...Wrong. kaneda08-30-08, 01:21 PMI wonder if the Casimir effect is evidence of a fourth physical dimension? Ladicius09-08-08, 11:02 AMWell sadly this thread has ended, so has my endeavour to read this thread. My only recourse and basic drive for reading this whole thing was Jo I guess. I think I see and understand what he was trying to accomplish. He, himself, tried to train his own senses and condition his mind to be able to see or...cope with another dimension. With all the intelligence on this thread i'm sad no one came to this conclusion. I aspire to one day have as much general knowledge as bo, and tomorrow i'm going to school and asking for chaos science as an elective in stead of physics. Its only a high school so I doubt it but it's worth a try. I myself don't see why i'm responding to a thread that hasn't been posted on with a serious thought for almost a month now. So... bye I guess. Thanks Jo AlphaNumeric09-09-08, 03:37 AMand tomorrow i'm going to school and asking for chaos science as an elective in stead of physicsThat isn't even an actual topic. This thread is just people who have no clue about any of the buzzwords they talk about getting together and saying said buzzwords to one another. I doubt even one person in this thread knows any vector calculus. Jozen-Bo09-18-08, 12:53 PMThat isn't even an actual topic. This thread is just people who have no clue about any of the buzzwords they talk about getting together and saying said buzzwords to one another. I doubt even one person in this thread knows any vector calculus. :bugeye: Your arrogance is amazing. You are mistaken about Chaos not being a subject!!! Now its time to address this little subject about Chaos science not being a science at all! Be prepared for a pimp smack! Several courageous scientists were so intrigued with the new concept of chaos, that they began to do research on both nonlinearity and turbulence (any condition where orderly motion is broken up into random or chaotic motion). However, according to Gleick (1987), they were warned by their supervisors and colleagues that such research could cost them their respectability, and possibly their careers. At that time, chaos was not a science, or even a cohesive theory, but rather, an untested discipline with no real experts. Early researchers, in this area, worked long and hard to develop their thoughts and findings into publishable and acceptable forms. New terms were needed. Above all, a new way of looking at the universe was required. Traditional scientists were hardly aware of this emerging science until most of the details had been worked out. Even then, some were strongly opposed to it. But, with the help of the home computer, chaos science grew until, today, it is an accepted scientific discipline in its own right. http://www.schuelers.com/ChaosPsyche/part_1_3.htm Chaos Theory and Complexity Theory are new sciences, which only really developed since the advent of computers able to undertake the massive computations necessary to uncover the mysteries of complexity. Prof. Stephen Hawking has stated, "The next century will be the century of complexity". Several concepts used in Complexity have come into mainstream use, such as tipping points, the butterfly effect and six degrees of separation. http://complexity.orconhosting.net.nz/index.html The science of chaos and its role in surgical planning. Heinz-Otto Peitgen PhD , Bremen, Germany Available online 25 July 2004. Chaos—the most interesting http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WKF-4CY0BXH-12&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a78372812fd3d9054fa7a8937cba7b1c Chaos is a multidisciplinary science, and this is reflected in the fact that the members of the group are affiliated with diverse departments and institutes http://www-chaos.umd.edu/ A study of iterations with another quadratic equation f(x) = kx(1-x) was a cornerstone in a related development of the science of chaos. http://www.cut-the-knot.org/blue/chaos.shtml Don't diss chaos science as being illegitimate unless you want to make a total fool of yourself. There are 2,770,000 hits for the words :the Science of Chaos in Google, there are many well paid scientist who focus on this science, it is real and not to be taken lightly (unless, off course, you are an idiot). I could of provided more, but this is enough for now. Many of the top Universities in the world are now recognizing, is yours? If not...its then a little outdated! Study up on Chaos and you will make leaps and bounds in your work, ignore it and you will probably end up being ignored in the pages of history. I LOVE CHAOS SCIENCE!!!!!!!!!! Immortal Man10-04-08, 05:51 PMThe only way to understand the 5th and 6th dimension is extreme expansion or destruction of the mind. Those who know are either dead or hallucinational. AlphaNumeric10-04-08, 07:48 PMJozen-Bo, I'm well aware of the area of mathematics and physics known as 'chaos'. The thing you mention like f(x) = kx(1-x) is something I was introduced to in my 1st year of university. More advanced developments were covered in a course in my 3rd year known as 'Dynamical Systems' (though I didn't take it). The poster I quoted claimed that he was going to take 'chaos science' instead of 'physics' in school. Firstly, no school (ie pre-university) would provide 'chaos science', particularly if you haven't done 'physics'. How can you understand the physical behaviour of highly complex non-linear systems if you don't know basic physics? Secondly, the level of mathematics required to do 'chaos', ie non-linear systems, is quite high. The simplest chaotic systems are just about within reach of someone whose finished high school. Doing any kind of proper analysis on a system, ie being able to answer 7B (http://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/teaching/pastpapers/2005/Part_2/index.html), is out of reach to anyone whose not doing a lot of maths. 'Chaos science' exists as a general area when you get to university level, but there's no topic/choice/course called 'Chaos science' at high school level which is a replacement for 'physics'. It's a subcategory of both physics and maths (ie you need BOTH to do it). You say 'I love chaos science' but I bet you don't know or do anything that actually involves the details of it. I freely admit I don't know how to answer things like the question I just linked to. But that doesn't stop me pointing out when other people can't either. The only way to understand the 5th and 6th dimension is extreme expansion or destruction of the mind. Those who know are either dead or hallucinational.I don't understand why people have such a hard time accepting that it's trivial to describe 5, 6, 10, 100, etc dimensional spaces mathematically. In school you learn how to do 1, 2 and 3 dimensional systems and anyone who is competant in it readily sees it can be generalised. Vector calculus and linear algebra are taught to 1st year students at university and there's no limit on the finite number of dimensions which can be described. Heck, if you're good you can learn how to describe infinite dimensional spaces! Anyone who knows any quantum mechanics knows how to work in infinite dimensions, even if they haven't realised it. Even if you 'only' know something as 'boring' as Fourier analysis of waveforms, you know how to describe infinite dimensional spaces! skywalker10-04-08, 10:07 PMIf the 4th dimension is space and the 5th dimension time, then what is the 6th dimension? What would dimensions 7 - 10 be? -Dan I wish i could send you the picture from sixth dimension but the internet doesn't work over there, camera's or other electronic they all fail. :( superstring0110-04-08, 11:12 PMIf the 4th dimension is space and the 5th dimension time, then what is the 6th dimension? What would dimensions 7 - 10 be? -Dan There may be up to 13 dimensions. Most of the theorized ones beyond the four we know of (length, width, height, time) are measured on the Planck Length (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plank_length). ~String AlphaNumeric10-05-08, 01:13 AMThere may be up to 13 dimensions.I thought Witten has shown that it's not possible to have supersymmetry within more than 11 dimensions without the requirement of spin 5/2 particles, which do not seem to behave consistently? Jozen-Bo10-05-08, 09:02 AMJozen-Bo, I'm well aware of the area of mathematics and physics known as 'chaos'. The thing you mention like f(x) = kx(1-x) is something I was introduced to in my 1st year of university. More advanced developments were covered in a course in my 3rd year known as 'Dynamical Systems' (though I didn't take it). Too bad you didn't take the course...:bawl: The poster I quoted claimed that he was going to take 'chaos science' instead of 'physics' in school. Firstly, no school (ie pre-university) would provide 'chaos science', particularly if you haven't done 'physics'. How can you understand the physical behaviour of highly complex non-linear systems if you don't know basic physics? Secondly, the level of mathematics required to do 'chaos', ie non-linear systems, is quite high. The simplest chaotic systems are just about within reach of someone whose finished high school. Doing any kind of proper analysis on a system, ie being able to answer 7B (http://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/teaching/pastpapers/2005/Part_2/index.html), is out of reach to anyone whose not doing a lot of maths. Chaos is a science of its own right, though it has evolved out of the combination of many other sciences, which include both math and physics. You should know this stuff...:bugeye: 'Chaos science' exists as a general area when you get to university level, but there's no topic/choice/course called 'Chaos science' at high school level which is a replacement for 'physics'. It's a subcategory of both physics and maths (ie you need BOTH to do it). OK...it appears you are familiar with the two primary ingredients...:) You say 'I love chaos science' but I bet you don't know or do anything that actually involves the details of it. I freely admit I don't know how to answer things like the question I just linked to. But that doesn't stop me pointing out when other people can't either. I don't understand why people have such a hard time accepting that it's trivial to describe 5, 6, 10, 100, etc dimensional spaces mathematically. In school you learn how to do 1, 2 and 3 dimensional systems and anyone who is competant in it readily sees it can be generalised. Vector calculus and linear algebra are taught to 1st year students at university and there's no limit on the finite number of dimensions which can be described. Heck, if you're good you can learn how to describe infinite dimensional spaces! Betting... I have studied Chaos very carefully, very slowly to make sure I absorb the implications first. There is huge amounts of math, formulas that get so complex so quick neither you nor I could solve them without the aid of a computer. I am working with chaos science directly, as the Mind Portal is one of those things that evolved out of the gathering of knowledge that includes chaos science, and it is in this understanding where clarity can be faster approached. Curious, if we can't describe dimensions mathematically, as you say, then how...in your words? As I said earlier, we can, and as soon as we have found the minimum amount of variable to fully describe this fractal reality we are, how to combine these variables into an exponential non-linear equation that blends into the continuum without end, then we will know how many- aside from the hypothetical idea that we can just keep adding variables forever. Anyone who knows any quantum mechanics knows how to work in infinite dimensions, even if they haven't realised it. Even if you 'only' know something as 'boring' as Fourier analysis of waveforms, you know how to describe infinite dimensional spaces! Then...describe infinite dimensional spaces for us! Thanks, Jozen timeship10-09-08, 11:19 AMGuys, there's no point arguing :eek: are there more than 3 dimensions or not. All you need to do is see "Elegant Universe" at PBS.org, which explains it all in a nutshell. If you don't trust PBS, then ask Dr. Michu Kaku himself at MKaku.org, who nowadays is considered the second Carl Sagan. Please know that every other argument is childish bickering and doesn't do you (or anyone else on this forum) a favor. Godspeed! Bob Bello timeship10-09-08, 11:22 AMPS: Here's the link to the PBS's show "Elegant Universe" - PBS.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/ AlphaNumeric10-09-08, 12:12 PMToo bad you didn't take the course...:bawl:Too bad you don't even know what 'chaos' is. Chaos is a science of its own right, though it has evolved out of the combination of many other sciences, which include both math and physics. You should know this stuff... I know it's a subsection of science, in the same way relativity is. But you can't do 'chaos science' in high school nor can do you do it as a replacement for 'science' or 'physics' at university, as you claimed. There is huge amounts of math, formulas that get so complex so quick neither you nor I could solve them without the aid of a computer.Actually, part of the definition of a chaotic system is that they are not solvable exactly. Computers only give approximations to things. And some of the equations are relatively simple. Haven't you ever heard of elliptic integrals? have studied Chaos very carefully, very slowly to make sure I absorb the implications firs.... I am working with chaos science directly, as the Mind Portal is one of those things that evolved out of the gathering of knowledge that includes chaos science, and it is in this understanding where clarity can be faster approached.Except your work is BS. I didn't link to it properly last time. Do 7B (http://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/teaching/pastpapers/2005/Part_2/PaperII_2.pdf). Curious, if we can't describe dimensions mathematically, as you sayI said we can. As I said earlier, we can, and as soon as we have found the minimum amount of variable to fully describe this fractal reality we are, how to combine these variables into an exponential non-linear equation that blends into the continuum without end, then we will know how many- aside from the hypothetical idea that we can just keep adding variables forever.I bet if I gave you a question on linear algebra you wouldn't be able to do it. Want to prove me wrong? Then...describe infinite dimensional spaces for us!An example would be the vector space of functions with well defined L2 norms. It is spanned by the infinite number of functions of the form e^{inx} where n \in \mathbb{Z}. Do you understand this example? Can you tell me what it readily applies to in physics? voodoochile10-12-08, 03:23 PMhello. I observed, and later created the 5th dimension during a scientific process. If you want to see it, you have to contact the people who stole it. Its beautiful and you party own it. General Information Entity Name: Polyphony Digital Inc. Established: April 2nd 1998 Location: Tobu Toyosu Bldg 2F., 1-10-19 Edagawa, Koto-ku, Tokyo 135-0051 Japan Capital: 10 Million Yen Employees: Approx. 110 Business Description: Planning and development of game software, and operation of surrounding services Representative: President Kazunori Yamauchi Board Members: Kazunori Yamauchi Representative Director Kaz Hirai Director Masaru Kato Director Shuhei Yoshida Director Kiyoshi Akutsu Auditor Steve10010-14-08, 08:51 AMhello. I observed, and later created the 5th dimension during a scientific process. If you want to see it, you have to contact the people who stole it. Its beautiful and you party own it. General Information Entity Name: Polyphony Digital Inc. Established: April 2nd 1998 Location: Tobu Toyosu Bldg 2F., 1-10-19 Edagawa, Koto-ku, Tokyo 135-0051 Japan Capital: 10 Million Yen Employees: Approx. 110 Business Description: Planning and development of game software, and operation of surrounding services Representative: President Kazunori Yamauchi Board Members: Kazunori Yamauchi Representative Director Kaz Hirai Director Masaru Kato Director Shuhei Yoshida Director Kiyoshi Akutsu Auditor You sure did a good job observing something before it was created. voodoochile10-14-08, 05:09 PMYou sure did a good job observing something before it was created. You need to read my thread again. When I observed the light, it was in reality. When I created the perfect replica of what I saw, it was in the simulation. UNO10-26-08, 03:03 PMthink of it this way we live in the 3rd Dimension everything we see in this universe is 3D that way there could be 1D and 2D universes 1D would probably be pitch black or it could be where black holes drop of their waste 2D Dimension would be like a gameboy color game what ever that lives in it would maybe be 2D that way in the 4th dimension things would be strechy that would be 4D, 5D is entirely made up of triangles just as the 3D demensions is made up of all lines sintists are unsure of what the 6 and 7 dimensions consist of but they do know that they are there so the 1D,2D,3D,4D,5D,6D,7D are separate universes it has nothing to do with time. golden age12-29-08, 07:19 AMjozen bo the speed of gravity waves is the quadrat of ligth speed everything in the third dimension is made of music gods love, on standing waves the meaning of creation is love i resonate with your writings I need access to the mind portal Oli12-29-08, 08:33 AMthe speed of gravity waves is the quadrat of ligth speed Is that English? everything in the third dimension is made of music Pure nonsense. gods love, on standing waves Pure gibberish. the meaning of creation is love Pure stupidity. i resonate with your writings Maybe you should try "resonating" with reality, I need access to the mind portal You need to keep taking your medication. Larry White Buffalo12-29-08, 12:25 PMWe have photos of benevolent beings from other dimensions on our new website. You can email me at benevolentspirits@yahoo.com if you have an intrest. golden age12-31-08, 07:12 AMoli thank you for your replay yes i migth be mad but i like to free my mind from the little box of educated knowledge Scott01-02-09, 03:06 AMHi fellas, we may be getting close to dymentinal travel, or at least we may now have viewed objects, ions to be spacific that are beleaved to have interdymentional travel properties. At least they have vanished and when they where viewed to be gone the pile of ions was stirred to see if it simply was going out of our view spectrum, when the ions came back the pile was not stirred. These ions where created from gold, it's known as monitomic gold or ORMES. It's been labeled as exotic matter. I have done these tests with ions that build up on my water fuel cell, and saw the same strange phenomenon. I also doubled my fuel mileage with my cell. Of course it is yet to be determined that it is going to another dimension but it seems to be the only logical explanation at this time. View the secrets of the lost ark vid by Sir Lawrence Gardner for more info. cheers. Scott. Potatoscrub02-11-09, 10:39 AMSummary for anybody new here: Question answered in the first 5 lines. Jozen-Bo is an insane dude who claims to be able to use a/the "Mind Portal", which I'm still not sure what is. Personally, I'm classing this with telekinesis and other psychic abilities; utter garbage As Jozen's pschotic rave came to a peak, somebody started talking sense (finally), and Jozen's arguement collapsed completely. Go to vote (DOT) sparklit (DOT) com/poll.spark?pollID=861305 and listen to the "TK'ers" and the smart people. It sounds the same as this. FFS, Jozen, stop wasting your life. I've been insane before, and what you're going through is almost exactly the same. It's just sad to me that you could have actually convinced anyone. Shows just how much people crawl back to juvinile power fantasies.:bugeye: Ladicius02-11-09, 02:49 PMDon't attempt to debunk something you know nothing about please. It has nothing to do with "abilities". Why not ask what it's about before you ridicule it. Btw, this thread died and he's not even on these forums anymore. AlphaNumeric02-12-09, 04:51 AMHas anyone ever heard of Micheal Greene? I had the honor of breifly meeting him in person during one of his seminars on dimensions and finding the link between gravitational forces and nuclear forces (both weak and strong). Basically we have found a way to combine the 3 forces that are not gravity into a mathmatical formula, but we can't get it to match up with the force of gravity. This is a man who has spent his whole life dealing with the subject, he is one of the USA goverment's top-notch physicists.Michael Greene is very much not American. He has quite a clear English accent and has worked at St Mary's University in London and currently works at Cambridge (the UK one). I don't think you met him if you didn't notice his well spoken English accent. There's a Brian Greene, who authored 'The Elegant Universe', and is American. I've met the former, but not the latter. Jozen-Bo04-02-09, 06:27 AMIs that English? Blah blah blah ... blah blah blah You need to keep ... blah. Typical Oli...:rolleyes: Jozen-Bo04-02-09, 06:34 AMToo bad you don't even know what 'chaos' is. I know it's a subsection of science, in the same way relativity is. But you can't do 'chaos science' in high school nor can do you do it as a replacement for 'science' or 'physics' at university, as you claimed. Actually, part of the definition of a chaotic system is that they are not solvable exactly. Computers only give approximations to things. And some of the equations are relatively simple. Haven't you ever heard of elliptic integrals? Blah Blah Blah... Oh...really? What you mean to say is there is no High School course. So now you take your argument from University to High School out of desperation? Silly? I never said you can replace physics with it, your argument is irrelevant and off course...a digression. Asking me math problems doesn't make a case either, more childish attempts to divert and digress the topic. Either talk directly about the 6th dimension...staying ON TOPIC and FOCUSED...or...STFU!!! Jozen-Bo04-02-09, 06:36 AMPS: Here's the link to the PBS's show "Elegant Universe" - PBS.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/ I correct myself...it was Brian Green who gave a lecture that I attended. Jozen-Bo04-02-09, 06:38 AMjozen bo the speed of gravity waves is the quadrat of ligth speed everything in the third dimension is made of music gods love, on standing waves the meaning of creation is love i resonate with your writings I need access to the mind portal http://themindportal.lefora.com/forum/ Jozen-Bo04-02-09, 06:41 AMHi fellas, we may be getting close to dymentinal travel, or at least we may now have viewed objects, ions to be spacific that are beleaved to have interdymentional travel properties. At least they have vanished and when they where viewed to be gone the pile of ions was stirred to see if it simply was going out of our view spectrum, when the ions came back the pile was not stirred. These ions where created from gold, it's known as monitomic gold or ORMES. It's been labeled as exotic matter. I have done these tests with ions that build up on my water fuel cell, and saw the same strange phenomenon. I also doubled my fuel mileage with my cell. Of course it is yet to be determined that it is going to another dimension but it seems to be the only logical explanation at this time. View the secrets of the lost ark vid by Sir Lawrence Gardner for more info. cheers. Scott. Thanks for the link Scott, I'll be looking into it! Jozen-Bo04-02-09, 06:56 AMSummary for anybody new here: Question answered in the first 5 lines. Jozen-Bo is an insane dude who claims to be able to use a/the "Mind Portal", which I'm still not sure what is. Personally, I'm classing this with telekinesis and other psychic abilities; utter garbage As Jozen's pschotic rave came to a peak, somebody started talking sense (finally), and Jozen's arguement collapsed completely. Go to vote (DOT) sparklit (DOT) com/poll.spark?pollID=861305 and listen to the "TK'ers" and the smart people. It sounds the same as this. FFS, Jozen, stop wasting your life. I've been insane before, and what you're going through is almost exactly the same. It's just sad to me that you could have actually convinced anyone. Shows just how much people crawl back to juvinile power fantasies.:bugeye: Summary for anyone new here? Coming from you and you single and only post, that doesn't add up to much...either your a cowardly sock puppet for some dissenting person already here or a shortsighted talker. Potatoscrub, your name suits you well. You come on these forums, make a single post aimed at me alone, and then leave. Your argument is a dead thing, relying on insults and opinions that have no supporting evidence and could and best call upon what is highly subjective bits and pieces of what I have written here and in other places. You never make it clear where my argument "collapses" let alone that it did or that this is a fact or just your scrubby-dub opinion. Your feeble attempt here is a failure, you've made no case, added no content, and only supplied useless opinions. Also, you insult the other members here indirectly by providing a link to where the "smart people" talk. Another worthless opinion, or can you prove that the people there are smarter than they are here? You are a conceited snob and probably very stupid because of it! I mean...find and provide some serious hardcore evidence!!! I am not done, finished, or out of breath. I am just warming up...:D I would say that people like you are disturbing and add a :bugeye:, but it is normal that there are arrogant, close-minded, and conceited individuals on this world such as yourself. Maybe if you have the balls you'll come back and try to make a real case using supporting evidence, rather then trying to divert and digress this thread with uselessness. Jozen-Bo04-02-09, 07:05 AMDon't attempt to debunk something you know nothing about please. It has nothing to do with "abilities". Why not ask what it's about before you ridicule it. Btw, this thread died and he's not even on these forums anymore. Thank you for those words of wisdom Ladicius! A slight correction, I am still on these forums and this thread is still alive. I paused for a while, because I was caught up in many of life's turbulent difficulties, I was very busy dealing with some very complicated messes. I have noted that I am entangled in more than I can openly talk about without inviting even more difficulty, so I'll leave it at that. This funny world has so many ways of loosening secrets that are kept from the general public, cautious as it can be, the bits come. I find that, once they do, there is no going back to the comfort of being naive that was there prior to encountering them. Maybe a better summary would be to say...I come and go in waves...;) Best Regards, Jozen-Bo :) rohitvashistha200304-08-09, 09:16 AMdimension is which can represent a change. in other words if there is any change in the state of some system then the variables of the equation which completely define the system are the dimensions. generally all the change in state is defined by change of x, y, z, and time. rohitvashistha200304-08-09, 09:22 AMwhen we are talking about dimensions more then 4 then actually we are talking about superstring theory. in superstring theory the strings are tightly wrapped. these curved strings give rise to curled dimensions. these are the extra dimensions. there are infinite curled dimensions possible but only the dimensions which are harmonic of basic shaps are permitted. for detail, refer to the elegant universe by brian green. if anybody have some interesting point then please tell me. EndLightEnd04-08-09, 09:58 AMTo me, different dimensions are different perceptions of the same fundamental reality. electrafixtion04-08-09, 02:50 PMTo me, different dimensions are different perceptions of the same fundamental reality. This is most likely precisely correct. I would enjoy Jozen's added insight, but what EndLightEnd is stating makes complete sense. If dimensional perception and the resulting physical laws inherent to it are a variable, in which we observe and interact with a measurably fixed physical reality akin to that dimension because we interpret it and react to it as such, there has to be a root or key element within that dimension that is synchronous or tuned to those perceiving it. It would stand to reason anyway. Could it be that we ourselves contain or produce that controlling key element which is both sent and then received by us in a loop of sorts? Maybe that "element" sets up our interpreted perception much the same as some type of frequency specific signal processing common to the base human element itself. Possibly whereby we are pretuned to a frequency specific perception as an absolute effect of the dimensionally interactive signal we both emit and receive in a closed loop that we call reality. In this sense, it's possible that if the technology needed to traverse dimensions becomes a reality, we ourselves may supply the necessary conduit in interaction with that technology to due so. AlphaNumeric04-09-09, 02:38 PMwhen we are talking about dimensions more then 4 then actually we are talking about superstring theory. in superstring theory the strings are tightly wrapped. these curved strings give rise to curled dimensions. these are the extra dimensions. there are infinite curled dimensions possible but only the dimensions which are harmonic of basic shaps are permitted. for detail, refer to the elegant universe by brian green. if anybody have some interesting point then please tell me.All string theories, bosonic or supersymmetric have more than 4 space-time dimensions. There are not infinitely many of them, in the case of superstring theory there's 10. The strings do not have to be tightly wrapped around compact dimensions, it depends on the specifics. Also, the shapes the compact dimensions take are not 'harmonics of basic shapes', that's not really even a well defined statement. There's a few nice shapes like tori which are viable compact dimension layouts but in general the compact dimensions of string theory are mind bendingly horrifically complicated. Algernon04-09-09, 03:56 PMI haven't had time to look through every page for links, but heres an interesting one if not exactly scientifically supported. But the theories are nevertheless very intriguing. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c8a_1188269118 A lot of string theory assumptions built into this firdroirich04-13-09, 02:24 PMLight Norsefire04-13-09, 04:44 PMTo my best knowledge, there are only three spatial dimensions; the fourth is duration, which in four dimensional space exists all at once, and in 3-dimensional space is interpreted as a flow (is that right?) The fifth dimension represents all of the possible timelines, with each timeline being a duration, and their spatial dimensions. Oli04-13-09, 04:49 PMNot quite, because there's no such thing as THE fifth or THE sixth dimension. (Or even THE first, THE second etc). It depends on what you're working with at the time. E.g. it's possible use construct biometric(?) charts with dimensions of age, height, weight and sex. Diode-Man04-14-09, 12:53 AMAnything beyond the 5th dimension is science fiction. Why the fifth? I believe the fifth represents all knowledge of all things combined into a single consciousness. (god) AlphaNumeric04-14-09, 01:05 AMAnything beyond the 5th dimension is science fiction.So using well known quantum mechanical methods to derive 10 dimensions is science fiction but you saying "Because of God" isn't? :shrug: Oli04-14-09, 06:05 AMAnything beyond the 5th dimension is science fiction. Pure crap and demonstrably untrue. Why the fifth? I believe the fifth represents all knowledge of all things combined into a single consciousness. (god) And that belief would be based on what? Lack of knowledge? Speculation? Wishful thinking? Idiocy? Steve10004-14-09, 08:43 AMAnything beyond the 5th dimension is science fiction. Why the fifth? I believe the fifth represents all knowledge of all things combined into a single consciousness. (god) I choked for a minute. phlogistician04-14-09, 09:25 AMAnything beyond the 5th dimension is science fiction. Why the fifth? I believe the fifth represents all knowledge of all things combined into a single consciousness. (god) Well, I believe you are a certifiable nutcase. EndLightEnd04-14-09, 10:37 AMWell..."If man is five...and the devil is six...then god is seven" There you have it the 6th dimension is the devil. You can thank the Pixies for that one. Oli04-14-09, 10:44 AMSorted. Except that man isn't five. ;) albino04-27-09, 06:17 PMdude, anything beyond the fifth dimension is'nt science fiction, its real. The fourth dimension is how a three dimensional figure moves along a three dimensional grid The fifth dimension is gravity and electromagnetisim. the Sixth is like the fourth, but it is actualy how it curves instead of going up the z axis, and down the x The seventh is like the sixth, but it is how it curves the xy&z and additional gradual curvind over time. The eighth im not really sure about, but i think it has to do with the aa axis, which is almost completely inconceiveable, if not at all, to the human mind. The ninth might be momentum and energy The tenth is only an idea thatthe computer or a sevant might be able to grasp: somethingnoone can really explainin real words. mabey a different presence like god, or mabey light, even though light actually is matter. The eleventh through seventeenth are only conceiveable by computers. According how infinity works, there might be way too many of these "dimensions", but anything is possible. I feel dizzy and weird and crazy.... mabey i am..:puke Oli04-27-09, 06:19 PMNice try but wrong. draqon04-27-09, 06:25 PMthe sixth dimension is a subspace of a 5th dimension, it curves inward is how we might be able to picture it. M-theory predicts a total of 11 dimensions. Gravity forces are curved into this dimension and that it is why we see gravity as being so weak in our own dimension. Oli04-27-09, 06:38 PMthe sixth dimension is a subspace of a 5th dimension, it curves inward is how we might be able to picture it. M-theory predicts a total of 11 dimensions. Gravity forces are curved into this dimension and that it is why we see gravity as being so weak in our own dimension. Again: no. http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2224023&postcount=160 draqon04-27-09, 06:40 PMAgain: no. http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2224023&postcount=160 I dont get what you said there. Please reiterate. I was taught that there are dimensions of space we go by... Oli04-27-09, 06:45 PMYes there are dimensions of space: but it all depends on what you're doing at any given time, what co-ordinate system you're using. There's A sixth dimension etc... but there isn't THE sixth dimension. For example if you're going to make a long journey by car you only (generally) consider two dimensions when thinking about the trip - distance (length) and time. So does that mean time is THE second dimension? draqon04-27-09, 06:50 PMYes there are dimensions of space: but it all depends on what you're doing at any given time, what co-ordinate system you're using. There's A sixth dimension etc... but there isn't THE sixth dimension. For example if you're going to make a long journey by car you only (generally) consider two dimensions when thinking about the trip - distance (length) and time. So does that mean time is THE second dimension? No Oli. In my scenario I imagine a quantum particle which is able to exist and travel in the many states or its particles it is comprised of to travel there. A photon traveling at speed of light in dimension one, two, three, and time (as the fourth) perhaps it is capable of interacting as a result of some annihilation reaction with another dimension... I want to take into account all the possible dimension any particles can exist in and interact with other particles in other dimensions. Oli04-27-09, 06:56 PMAnd in that case there would be "a" sixth dimension possibly, or even more. But the sixth dimension under consideration is not THE 6th dimension except in that case, it's merely "a" 6th factor to be be considered in the phase space being looked at for that problem. It's not a universal application. draqon04-27-09, 07:02 PMIt's not a universal application. obviously, but its existence for that particle allows us to define it. Oli04-27-09, 07:04 PMAs agreed, but it doesn't it make THE sixth dimension. Look at the example in the linked post: does that mean that "sex (gender)" is THE 4th dimension? draqon04-27-09, 07:07 PMAs agreed, but it doesn't it make THE sixth dimension. Look at the example in the linked post: does that mean that "sex (gender)" is THE 4th dimension? no...those are just qualities. Oli04-27-09, 07:13 PMAnd so is "the" sixth dimension in your example. AlphaNumeric04-28-09, 03:03 AMthe sixth dimension is a subspace of a 5th dimension, it curves inward is how we might be able to picture it.No. You can't have a dimension being a subspace of another dimension unless they are the same. dude, anything beyond the fifth dimension is'nt science fiction, its real. The fourth dimension is how a three dimensional figure moves along a three dimensional grid The fifth dimension is gravity and electromagnetisim. the Sixth is like the fourth, but it is actualy how it curves instead of going up the z axis, and down the x The seventh is like the sixth, but it is how it curves the xy&z and additional gradual curvind over time. The eighth im not really sure about, but i think it has to do with the aa axis, which is almost completely inconceiveable, if not at all, to the human mind. The ninth might be momentum and energy The tenth is only an idea thatthe computer or a sevant might be able to grasp: somethingnoone can really explainin real words. mabey a different presence like god, or mabey light, even though light actually is matter. The eleventh through seventeenth are only conceiveable by computers. According how infinity works, there might be way too many of these "dimensions", but anything is possible. I feel dizzy and weird and crazy.... mabey i am..:pukeSee, people run out of 'out there' concepts to give the dimensions and then just start labelling them 'energy' and 'momentum', which is completely wrong. There's no need to give them names or what not. They are just more directions to move in. You don't need a 4th dimension to curve space, you can curve space in any number of dimensions, even 1. You don't need a computer to conceive more than 10 dimensions, mathematicians having been doing stuff involving infinite dimensions for more than 100 years. Doing vector calculus with some unknown but finite number of dimensions is second nature to most maths students. Heck, even school kids have done stuff on infinite dimensional vector spaces, they just didn't realise it. Ever done anything to do with polynomials? So shut up albino because you're wrong. Jozen-Bo04-28-09, 03:21 AMLoL Potatoscrub05-05-09, 03:30 PMLoL tl;dr Anyway, I hope my previous message wasn't offensive to you :D I was merely voicing my (scientifically backed) opinion that spinning a colorful paper wheel does not unlock the secrets of dimensions, but merely causes disorentation and minute hallucenogenic effects. :rolleyes: Oh and expect me to abide by rule 34 of the internet with regard to wheel. koraki06-18-09, 01:28 PMThis space right here seems like the 5th dimension where all your other dimensions and perceptions kinda takes a hike and ditches you by the time you get to the end... you know from Dan to potatoscrub and 10 years in between...phew.. BobG06-19-09, 03:51 AMyou can curve space in any number of dimensions, even 1. Can you? Isn't the Riemann tensor always zero in one dimension. nova milne07-05-09, 09:28 AM@Jozen-Bo you are a genius with dense ideas and super ego, many thanks for a certain enlightenment. although a shame about your arrogance, as it interferes with the ebb and flow of this forum. publish your journals to satisfy your 1 way plot, but thanks for the drama and tangents. demigod07-06-09, 01:08 PMMabey I'm in the wrong place for this, but as I was setting here drinking my morning coffee, I started thinking of thought being a dimensional device. That is we see in three dimensions there for we think in three dimensions. We watch TV we see two dimensions, which brings up 2 questions: 1. Do we translate the 2 dimensional images we see into 3 dimensions? or 2. Do we merely accept the 2 we see and go on from there. But this isn't the point of my post. It has been said that insane people are not aware that they are insane. Which begs the question; if we are aware of more dimensions than 3, is it possible to think in 4, 5, or 6 dimensions, and if this were true would we be able to overcome our 3 dimensional insanity, or are the insane actually thinking in more than 3 dinension? I believe, that as sentient beings, if we imagine it we can make it happen. Oli07-06-09, 01:34 PMWhat makes you think thought has a dimensionality? We can think in as many dimensions as required: for example as a design engineer (draughtsman) I was often required to think in 2 dimensions (in the old days of doing drawings on paper*), mathematicians can think in four, five or more depending on what they're doing. And don't forget we experience at least 4 dimensions - time being the other: next week I'll visit X, tomorrow I need to go shopping, last year I had a great holiday... * I have come to the conclusion (unsupported by any study) that draughtsmen have a facility (maybe through training, or maybe a natural predilection enhanced through training) for "switching" to 2 dimensions. Non-draughtsmen always seem to screw up somewhere in converting a 3D object to an accurate/ representative 2D drawing. Ollie07-19-09, 03:07 AM0=nothing 1=length 2=width 3=depth 4=time 5=space 6=microelectric universes 7=the surface beween wave and particle 8=particle fill 9=probabality, possibílity, chaos 10=thoughts 11=gravity 12=consciousness 13=infinity, everything :cool::m::) Ollie07-19-09, 03:10 AMsuper dimension is movement. Enmos07-19-09, 03:59 AMUhm.. hi Ollie. Welcome to sci. thinking07-26-09, 09:56 PM0=nothing 1=length 2=width 3=depth 4=time 5=space 6=microelectric universes 7=the surface beween wave and particle 8=particle fill 9=probabality, possibílity, chaos 10=thoughts 11=gravity 12=consciousness 13=infinity, everything :cool::m::) actually the 4th is breadth , because with out breadth neither of the first 5 could exist and time is not a true dimension , since time is a consequence of physical compartive movement by objects , expressed by mathematics Dywyddyr07-27-09, 04:25 PMactually the 4th is breadth , because with out breadth neither of the first 5 could exist Actually "breadth" is interchangeable with "width". And no, it's not true that "without breadth neither of the first 5 could exist".:rolleyes: and time is not a true dimension , since time is a consequence of physical compartive movement by objects , expressed by mathematics Wrong. Let me guess. You majored in ignorance and wishful thinking... thinking07-27-09, 04:36 PM“ Originally Posted by thinking actually the 4th is breadth , because with out breadth neither of the first 5 could exist ” Actually "breadth" is interchangeable with "width". And no, it's not true that "without breadth neither of the first 5 could exist". actually it is true that without breadth or width none of the first 5 could exist since none can move out into space on there own properties , without any breadth breadth is not conducive with first 5 , the dimensions give a certain specific direction and none include a Natural breadth within them thinking07-27-09, 04:38 PM“ and time is not a true dimension , since time is a consequence of physical compartive movement by objects , expressed by mathematics ” Wrong. Let me guess. You majored in ignorance and wishful thinking... let me guess , you are a arrogant mathematican Dywyddyr07-27-09, 04:47 PMlet me guess , you are a arrogant mathematican My apologies, I should have also put "lousy at guessing" on that list. thinking07-27-09, 04:57 PMMy apologies, I should have also put "lousy at guessing" on that list. oh well I noticed , moving on , that you have no arguments against what I have said in my post breadth is needed for any for the first 3 dimensions to manifest and time is only a mathematical dimension , used to understand the physical dynamics of things look at a atomic clock based on cesium time calculates the movement of the atoms position(s) , only Dywyddyr07-27-09, 05:02 PMoh well I noticed , moving on , that you have no arguments against what I have said in my post Then you also can't read. breadth is needed for any for the first 3 dimensions to manifest No it isn't. Breadth IS width. 0=nothing 1=length 2=width 3=depth 4=time 5=space 6=microelectric universes 7=the surface beween wave and particle 8=particle fill 9=probabality, possibílity, chaos 10=thoughts 11=gravity 12=consciousness 13=infinity, everything That list is total nonsense. It might as well include "wind" and "rain" for all the "accuracy" it has. and time is only a mathematical dimension , used to understand the physical dynamics of things No it isn't. look at a atomic clock based on cesium time calculates the movement of the atoms position(s) , only Also wrong: time is interval separating events in the same way that space is interval separating objects (or locations). thinking07-27-09, 05:08 PM“ breadth is needed for any for the first 3 dimensions to manifest ” No it isn't. Breadth IS width. I perfer breadth thinking07-27-09, 05:10 PM“ and time is only a mathematical dimension , used to understand the physical dynamics of things ” No it isn't. yes it is Dywyddyr07-27-09, 05:11 PMI perfer breadth It's a linguistic difference only. yes it is Wrong, as Ben stated in another thread. thinking07-27-09, 05:15 PM“ look at a atomic clock based on cesium time calculates the movement of the atoms position(s) , only ” Also wrong: time is interval separating events in the same way that space is interval separating objects (or locations). and these intervals are based on .... the movement of the atoms Dywyddyr07-27-09, 05:20 PMSeparated in time. thinking07-27-09, 05:28 PMSeparated in time. and that separation in time , measured is based on the atoms movements not because of time Dywyddyr07-27-09, 05:29 PMand that separation in time , measured is based on the atoms movements not because of time Wrong again: the separation has to occur in something and that something is what we call time. Otherwise the movement couldn't happen. thinking07-27-09, 05:32 PM“ Originally Posted by thinking and that separation in time , measured is based on the atoms movements not because of time Wrong again: the separation has to occur in something and that something is what we call time. Otherwise the movement couldn't happen. the separation occurs in space , the " something " Dywyddyr07-27-09, 05:36 PMthe separation occurs in space , the " something " Wrong again: if there was no separation in time then everything would happen at once... thinking07-27-09, 05:48 PM“ Originally Posted by thinking the separation occurs in space , the " something " Wrong again: if there was no separation in time then everything would happen at once... wrong its not time that separates things , it is the Nature of the objects themselves and the consequence(s) thereof and when you think about it , many things happen at once a star explodes at the same moment we sleep , at the same moment a child is born , a house is built , couples get married etc thinking07-27-09, 05:51 PMin the end time has nothing to do with anything it is a consequence of the movement of people and things Dywyddyr07-27-09, 05:53 PMits not time that separates things , it is the Nature of the objects themselves and the consequence(s) thereof Utterly wrong. and when you think about it , many things happen at once So what? Many more don't. a star explodes at the same moment we sleep , at the same moment a child is born , a house is built , couples get married etc Which means absolutely nothing as far as your argument goes. For example: "a star explodes at the moment we sleep": which moment of sleep? I generally sleep for up to four hours - i.e. time passes while I sleep, lots of "moments" there... thinking07-27-09, 06:00 PM“ Originally Posted by thinking its not time that separates things , it is the Nature of the objects themselves and the consequence(s) thereof ” Utterly wrong. because... ? thinking07-27-09, 06:03 PM“ and when you think about it , many things happen at once ” So what? Many more don't. and in the next moment they do and so on..... Dywyddyr07-27-09, 06:07 PMbecause... ? Because you're talking nonsense. What is there about "the nature of the objects themselves" that makes you think it's "time". and in the next moment they do and so on..... Exactly: in the next moment. thinking07-27-09, 06:08 PM“ a star explodes at the same moment we sleep , at the same moment a child is born , a house is built , couples get married etc ” Which means absolutely nothing as far as your argument goes. For example: "a star explodes at the moment we sleep": which moment of sleep? I generally sleep for up to four hours - i.e. time passes while I sleep, lots of "moments" there... yes there is lots of moments in the bigger picture Dywyddyr07-27-09, 06:10 PMAnd all of those moments constitute time. One after the other after the other... thinking07-27-09, 06:20 PMAnd all of those moments constitute time. One after the other after the other... only as an after thought Dywyddyr07-27-09, 06:21 PMNo, as a fundamental dimension. thinking07-27-09, 06:24 PMNo, as a fundamental dimension. wrong time is not a fundamental dimension at all to us it maybe , but to the Universe its self , it means nothing , nothing at all Dywyddyr07-27-09, 06:26 PMwrong time is not a fundamental dimension at all Oops, wrong. to us it maybe , but to the Universe its self , it means nothing , nothing at all Really? The universe told you did it? Also wrong. thinking07-27-09, 06:39 PM“ Originally Posted by thinking wrong time is not a fundamental dimension at all ” Oops, wrong. prove it prove that time , and time alone , influences any physical dynamics of any object on Earth and the Universe Dywyddyr07-27-09, 06:40 PMIt depends what you mean by "prove". How much physics do you know? thinking07-27-09, 06:45 PM“ to us it maybe , but to the Universe its self , it means nothing , nothing at all ” Really? The universe told you did it? Also wrong. again , give an example where time influences objects to the point that we can see that time is an actual influential dimension upon any object in the Uinverse or here on Earth Dywyddyr07-27-09, 06:48 PMIf there was no time for things to "move" in then everything would happen at the same moment. You're reading this AFTER I type it. You wake up AFTER you go to sleep. You get older. The cup falls off the table THEN breaks. thinking07-27-09, 06:52 PMIt depends what you mean by "prove". How much physics do you know? what does it matter , just prove it Dywyddyr07-27-09, 06:54 PMwhat does it matter , just prove it Spoken like a true idiot. So I have to teach you basic physics and lead up to the proof? No wonder you have such dumb "ideas" about things. How does one prove a criminal is guilty? By showing ALL of the steps that lead up to the final proof: chains of evidence and logic. If you don't know physics then we're not going to get anywhere are we? :rolleyes: thinking07-27-09, 06:59 PM[QUOTE=Dywyddyr;2324299]If there was no time for things to "move" in then everything would happen at the same moment. we've been there done that therefore you already now my answer You're reading this AFTER I type it. You wake up AFTER you go to sleep. You get older. The cup falls off the table THEN breaks. and also a business decision is made , an aircraft is made , someone is on beach , someone is fishing , a tree is fallen , ice melts etc your point ? thinking07-27-09, 07:01 PMSpoken like a true idiot. So I have to teach you basic physics and lead up to the proof? No wonder you have such dumb "ideas" about things. How does one prove a criminal is guilty? By showing ALL of the steps that lead up to the final proof: chains of evidence and logic. If you don't know physics then we're not going to get anywhere are we? :rolleyes: suck it up and prove it:D Dywyddyr07-27-09, 07:06 PMwe've been there done that therefore you already now my answer And your "answer" wasn't even close to being an answer. and also a business decision is made , an aircraft is made , someone is on beach , someone is fishing , a tree is fallen , ice melts etc your point ? That they're are all indications that time is passing: B follows A in time. suck it up and prove it:D In other words you're ignorant on physics altogether but won't admit it because then you'll be shown up as someone spouting nonsense on a subject you know nothing whatsoever about but still, somehow, feel "qualified" to make flat statements on... Very smart. thinking07-27-09, 07:08 PMDywyddyr you give everything from insults and I'm being wrong but give no proof to your assertions well ..... thinking07-27-09, 07:11 PMAnd your "answer" wasn't even close to being an answer. That they're are all indications that time is passing: B follows A in time. In other words you're ignorant on physics altogether but won't admit it because then you'll be shown up as someone spouting nonsense on a subject you know nothing whatsoever about but still, somehow, feel "qualified" to make flat statements on... Very smart. what you say here means nothing , it proves nothing Dywyddyr07-27-09, 07:20 PMDywyddyr you give everything from insults and I'm being wrong but give no proof to your assertions Because I personally am NOT here to teach you physics. If you're ignorant on a particular subject it's hardly my fault. And if you choose to spout nonsense on a subject in which you're ignorant why should I be "nice" to you? For that matter you've offered nothing to support your facile assertions. what you say here means nothing , it proves nothing It "proves nothing" because you don't actually think, you just go with "what feels right" and ignore reality. thinking07-27-09, 07:30 PM“ Originally Posted by thinking Dywyddyr you give everything from insults and I'm being wrong but give no proof to your assertions ” Because I personally am NOT here to teach you physics. If you're ignorant on a particular subject it's hardly my fault. And if you choose to spout nonsense on a subject in which you're ignorant why should I be "nice" to you? what a cop out just give the evidence Dywyddyr07-27-09, 07:33 PMwhat a cop out just give the evidence You have SEVERE comprehension problems don't you? I've already explained why I need to know how much physics you know. Do you even have a basic grounding? Start here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time) and work up. thinking07-27-09, 07:54 PMYou have SEVERE comprehension problems don't you? I've already explained why I need to know how much physics you know. Do you even have a basic grounding? Start here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time) and work up. has any of this given time a substance ? Dywyddyr07-27-09, 08:04 PMA substance? thinking07-27-09, 08:07 PMA substance? yes a substance Dywyddyr07-27-09, 08:09 PMyes a substance You see? You're on the wrong track altogether. What "substance" is length? thinking07-27-09, 08:16 PMYou see? You're on the wrong track altogether. What "substance" is length? none Dywyddyr07-27-09, 08:22 PMSo why should time have a substance? thinking07-27-09, 08:36 PMSo why should time have a substance? because your asking time to be an influence upon things , it can't the difference between length and time is that without length an object can't manifest , ( I hope this obvious ) but time isn't about the ability , fundamentally , of the objects ability to manifest , time isn't a quality , in the sence that if time were absent doesn't mean that the object wouldn't manifest but the absence of , length , hight , depth and breadth does take away any of these qualities and the object can't manifest see my point ? thinking07-27-09, 08:38 PMfirst there is the manifestation of the object then time becomes Dywyddyr07-27-09, 08:41 PMbecause your asking time to be an influence upon things , it can't Wrong again. Time is a dimension, like length. What "influence" does length have? Ageing is passage through the dimension of time, not time itself influencing things. but time isn't about the ability , fundamentally , of the objects ability to manifest , time isn't a quality , in the sence that if time were absent doesn't mean that the object wouldn't manifest That's merely a supposition of yours. but the absence of , length , hight , depth and breadth does take away any of these qualities and the object can't manifest see my point ? That, also, is a supposition. It could be possible that time, length and width could give rise to "something" - a nominally "2D" existence (compared to our nominally "3D" one). thinking07-27-09, 08:51 PM“ Originally Posted by thinking because your asking time to be an influence upon things , it can't ” What "influence" does length have? as I keep trying to explain to you length is essential to the manisfestation of an object Ageing is passage through the dimension of time, not time itself influencing things. and aging is based essentially on what ? the bio-chemistry of any being and genetics Dywyddyr07-27-09, 08:58 PMas I keep trying to explain to you length is essential to the manisfestation of an object No it isn't. Length is merely an "indication" of something existing that particular dimension. "Length" as a dimension has nothing to do with an object. Call it "distance" if that makes it easier for you. Distance between two objects is length. and aging is based essentially on what ? the bio-chemistry of any being and genetics Ageing doesn't happen to non-living things? Decay? Ageing happens because there's "movement" along the time dimension. Things "experience" duration - movement through time. thinking07-27-09, 09:18 PM“ Originally Posted by thinking as I keep trying to explain to you length is essential to the manisfestation of an object ” No it isn't. Length is merely an "indication" of something existing that particular dimension. "Length" as a dimension has nothing to do with an object. Call it "distance" if that makes it easier for you. Distance between two objects is length. lets look at length differently each object , or atom or quantum particle , no matter how small needs length why ? because length as one of the dimensions with which applies extension in space of the particle and hence allows for the manifestation of the particle Dywyddyr07-27-09, 09:28 PMlets look at length differently each object , or atom or quantum particle , no matter how small needs length why ? because length as one of the dimensions with which applies extension in space of the particle and hence allows for the manifestation of the particle No, you're looking at it wrongly. It "needs" length? Length is a dimension. The fact that an object HAS length is a concomitant, not a necessity. And those particles also have duration... because they exist in time. Jozen-Bo07-29-09, 11:50 AMLooks like I have some catching up to do here... Jozen-Bo07-29-09, 12:29 PMYou don't need a 4th dimension to curve space, you can curve space in any number of dimensions, even 1. You don't need a computer to conceive more than 10 dimensions, mathematicians having been doing stuff involving infinite dimensions for more than 100 years. Doing vector calculus with some unknown but finite number of dimensions is second nature to most maths students. Heck, even school kids have done stuff on infinite dimensional vector spaces, they just didn't realise it. Ever done anything to do with polynomials? How exactly are we curving space...:confused:... Also, what is your idea, then, of a vector motion in, say, the 689th dimension... I am curious as to what your answer will be. Jozen-Bo07-29-09, 12:49 PMSummary for anybody new here: Question answered in the first 5 lines. You have...two quotes...are you a sock puppet or are you also new here... Jozen-Bo is an insane dude who claims to be able to use a/the "Mind Portal", which I'm still not sure what is. Personally, I'm classing this with telekinesis and other psychic abilities; utter garbage So...your not sure what it is and yet you claim to have a scientifically backed view... You reveal your own presumption... As Jozen's pschotic rave came to a peak, somebody started talking sense (finally), and Jozen's arguement collapsed completely. Go to vote (DOT) sparklit (DOT) com/poll.spark?pollID=861305 and listen to the "TK'ers" and the smart people. It sounds the same as this. FFS, Jozen, stop wasting your life. Again aimed at myself, and, can you please specify exactly where my argument collapsed... And...blow off for insulting the members of this forum as if...the dumb people talk here and the smart people talk there...what a bunch of arrogant bull-blabber. I've been insane before, and what you're going through is almost exactly the same. It's just sad to me that you could have actually convinced anyone. Shows just how much people crawl back to juvinile power fantasies. Are you a professional psychologist...seriously...because accusing others of being insane on the net is weak-minded bullshit, you can't even back anything up with REAL LEGAL EVIDENCE...so kiss my arse! I believe you when you say you've been insane before...I can see why...care to share what you where legally classified with... tl;dr Anyway, I hope my previous message wasn't offensive to you :D How...insincere...thanks! I was merely voicing my (scientifically backed) opinion that spinning a colorful paper wheel does not unlock the secrets of dimensions, but merely causes disorentation and minute hallucenogenic effects. :rolleyes: Care to provide some scientifically backed proof on this...really! And where is this organization backing you...or is it simply a cluster...a community that you try to make sound bigger then it is...your inability to provide evidence is utterly astonishing! Oh and expect me to abide by rule 34 of the internet with regard to wheel. I can't taste the humor...was that a joke... Dywyddyr07-29-09, 12:51 PMAlso, what is you idea, then, of a vector motion in, say, the 689th dimension... Whatever you want it to be, depending upon how your dimensions are defined... Jozen-Bo07-29-09, 01:00 PMWhatever you want it to be, depending upon how your dimensions are defined... I need to catch up more before I can better comprehend what you mean by this statement and where your coming from...it shouldn't take long. Post ReplyCreate New Thread