image a force, this force can only go in 1 direction, it is in space and most importantly, its unstoppable .Then theres a wall its also in space, this wall cannot be moved, cannot be bent,streched,cut,broken through, teleported,destroyed, even if hell broke out and tried to suck it in!WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THEY MET??????


your comments would be great :D

I do not know the answer to this but I know someone who does. I'll get back to you on this. Good luck

if they merge, creating a bridge then the very function of the wall fails, they cannot merge as they walls very purpose is to stop things getting past, the bridge!

so this cannot happen

Well the question is only unanswerable when it's not defined to the point of workable perimeters.

Is the force created from one spot? Is it going on one direction?, say for instance South, or is it going in all directions? (a one direction being just defined away from the centre)

Does the force lose energy as it travels? If so what it's its ratio of energy to distance?

As for the wall, does it surround the energy bust Spherically?(creating a shell around the forces nuclei) or is it just a straight wall that exists in one plain? Can the wall chain soliton vibrations through it?

If you could answer them the question should be answerable.

Unstoppable force means infinite energy. Immovable wall means the same. So you will have matter converted to pure energy times two and the energy will be released for eternity.

OR it will change all the laws and the time will stop being in the equation....and nothing will happen...that you can perceive...

if you said that time will stop then this is wrong as the primary function of the first force is not being able to stop, its direction is forward, theres no south in space only south to you and not to us the observers. maybe your looking at it too mathamatical or scientificaly, broaden you sight..

Maybe you're looking at it too generally, Tom. I got into this in the "impossible..." thread.

Knowing something is unstoppable shows a definition or knowledge of its interaction with everything else in the universe.

They would have to be of the same material, or have no awareness of each others' differences, so that in effect they WERE unstoppable and impermeable.
OR
The wall would have to constantly change to accomodate new materials and prevent breeches, where the "cosmic arrow" would do the same, so they cannot be of one material, unless the material allows pass-through.

By this definition they would pass through slowly as each found a way to bypass the other, granted any change in composition took at least the smallest amount of time.

I would just as soon say, since it was never defined, they could meet, but only at location, and the time would be different for each, so one couldn't exist in the way of the other.

interesting and thought provoking

it doesn't matter what they are made of, the wall or the other force... it isn't changing and nothing can get past it, i think you have fallen for the obvious mistake many fall, im not asking for ways they can get around this 'equasion' but simple what would happen if this situation were to happen. If you want to get into a debate about 'if' they can then thats fine, but I asked (see above), but i must add your getting close where you said where they meet. i didn't specify where in time but i said they met so they must be in the same time zone and dimaension.

if any-one wants to continue this with me some other time im up for it, so mail me-
www.divine_key@yahoo.co.uk

im always up for a debate...and im normaly set in stone, so if you wanna good one....

:)

Since none of my questions were truly answered I'll just place my hypothesis.

A force that is unstoppable hits a indestructible and inpenitrable wall, and it bounces back like a ball would do hitting a wall. The force is still moving in it's one direction, forwards, but now the force is going back along the path it came from, weaking it's force on approach to the less than enough to breach the wall.

This could continue as is mentioned in blackbody experiments.

An immovable object by its very definition does not have space beyond what it occupies. There is no place to push it to. In the absense of space, time may not exist....

this breaks two rules,
1st, as it hits and gets reflected the very instent it must stop before going in the reverse direction which breaks the unstoppable rule
2nd, if its going in reverse it cannot be going in one direction, can it, also when it reaches its starting point its going even more in the wrong direction if you get what i mean

2 rules that you could have just made up!

Do me a favour and define the full rules of what they can't do, then I can guess what they can, otherwise this is a hopeless question to attempt to answer as the goal posts keep moving.

what do you mean by has no space beond it? the 'wall' is a force, u could think of it as a force field, or maybe the edge of the universe(they are example dont hassle me about them) they could have space beond them.

im sorry ive got to go now so i regret that i cannot show them to you, but ill leave you on this thought

'look at the start of the forum, whats the question...




otherwise this is a hopeless question to attempt to answer as the goal posts keep moving

Playing with ideas only is too fun and too sticky.

I still say that for that to happen, they must be of the same composition, or a material that can alter itself to guard another material. Eye for an eye.

Given that, then, this could only occur in the mind, since it's the only thing where such things exist. In that case, you can just remove parts of the brain.

This follows the impossible thread, although I must say it rather disproves my take on it.

How about...

The Unstoppible force, moves in one direction, but it accelerates, greater and greater till it gets to the point where it has no mass and can just pass through the wall, where it could continue accelerating or decellerating on the other side of the imperviable wall.

(I noted something in a lightening fork once, where there was a gap when the lightening had reach such a high speed that it was able to travel through the air, without existing for a microsecond, before reentering as electromagnetic flux.

Okay I didnt read any of the replys but heres the answer.

Both of these forces can be described generally as infinite. So thats two infinites in the same frame of time meeting coming from basically Opposite directions. Thats like saying pi squared or what would happen is the beam would travel on an infinite CIRCULAR (or pi) continuam plane forever as the wall would do the same thing only travelling in a stationary position forever which would be the exact opposite plane in space. You see by saying it cant change direction you're inherently saying that it cant completely change its plane in time and pie doesnt. Thats the nice thing about pi or as I like to call - pie.

And my theory of the impossible, impossible prevails.

I have a better way to explain it. Imagine you are travelling on earth and you want to meet the horizon but all that will happen is you will keep going forever in circles. It sounds really complicated when you first think of the problem but the answer is so simple.

If it is given that the force is energy and the wall is mass:

"It followed from the special theory of relativity that mass and energy are both but different manifestations of the same thing -- a somewhat unfamilar conception for the average mind. Furthermore, the equation E is equal to m c-squared, in which energy is put equal to mass, multiplied by the square of the velocity of light, showed that very small amounts of mass may be converted into a very large amount of energy and vice versa. The mass and energy were in fact equivalent, according to the formula mentioned before. This was demonstrated by Cockcroft and Walton in 1932, experimentally."

Some type of conversion would most likely take place.

An unstopable force and an immovable object together form a logical contradiction. It is impossible for both to exist in the same universe. If an object is immovable, by definition it can stop any force. If a force is unstopable, by definition it can move any object. You can't have both at the same time.

would carry on, spreading over the surface of the immovable wall.

I will have to catch up but here goes...
the thibg about the moving forces accelerates, this isn't happening as I didn't state that the force is accelerating because its not.
Time is a funny thing, and so should only be explored carefully. The objects are both 3 dim, and as I said they will meet you must assume that the direction of its starting point is towards the 'wall'.
Lets assume that they can(and i hope that they will do)meet.
You lost me on that horizon thing, whats that got to do with anything?
They are both physical objects which have no relation with energy(even though they do) they can actually touch, but what do they do at that very time in space? (you can slow down time asmuch as you like to explain yourself)
They can exist in the same time and dimentions, even if there theoretical(exuse spelling).
lastly-to the last post so far...if it were to spread over the 'wall' its direction would change or alter, so sorry.

Thanks guys, more comments, bring em on....:)

I have plenty of theories but before you shoot mine down I'd like to hear yours. By the way nobody actually knows the real answer, it is all speculation, and based on the rules all we can do is guess.


csreech@hotmail.com

I have a hard time explaining exactly what I want to say. The earth example was totally mixed up and basically unrelated so heres another explanation. Imagine a beam hitting a wall. Given this is an empty universe it is in and that space is empty, then the beam would hit the wall. now imagine impact....somethings got to happen, so theoretically if they both move round with the impact point never changing, then the beam would still be moving but never changing but it all has to be in perfect perpendicular or whatever position while it circles in pi formation so that it can still move without changing positon. relative to eachother. I know what it is but I have a hard time expressing myself. Besides I just came back from school so I'm pooped. I'll write a better explanation later. Believe me I know what I'm talking about.

I have given this a lot of thought so here is my theory....

Lets assume that the force is solid matter as opposed to wind. Something of mass proportion. Lets also assume that since the force is unstoppable that it is traveling at the speed of light at it's starting point and the farther it goes than the faster it goes. That makes sence so far. When something travleles faster than light speed it slows time down, right? So therfor by the time it gets to the wall it is very well possible that time has halted and the force will never hit the wall. In fact if it goes fast enough than it is possible that it could go back in time.

This theory is assuming that the force is going at this tremendous speed.

Tough to explain but if you look into it it makes some sence. Just a thought.

image a force, this force can only go in 1 direction, it is in space and most importantly, its unstoppable .Then theres a wall its also in space, this wall cannot be moved, cannot be bent,streched,cut,broken through, teleported,destroyed, even if hell broke out and tried to suck it in!WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THEY MET??????


They would provide an answer to your question.

Pretty good theory but this force cant be teleported and it specifically states that the two forces should meet. This means that no matter what the theory, these forces will meet in theory in their particular 'universe' and I use a quotation to emphasize the fact that I only believe in this one universe. I cant say that something like this is impossible in our universe but my theory is the best I've seen so far.

The real answer is: No such items exist. They are all imaginery...the product of a torture mind....when physical laws do not apply....

what laws?? we're just going by philosophy.

I'm reminded of that Einstein quote "1000 experiments cant prove me right but it takes only one to prove me wrong" or something like that, so basically unless you've discovered 'everything' the you cant say that something doesnt exist.

I agree with you Elbaz, basicaly i've askeda question and I want a reply. They might exist in this universe(I hope as then i can see the 'true' answer. You probably say that they cannot exist becasue you cannot concieve it... if we went back to the medieval age and showed off our latest invetions they would be godsmacked...and thats what not 'that' long ago. So image a race (this is just an example and im not saying these force/s are man(alien)made.) If they were..say...10 million years in advance to use there things would be %&£*& amazing...so say 100 billion years, is it too rediculous to say anythings impossible.

One of my theorys is , nothing is impossible, or totaly certain. but thats for some other time.

Keep bringing em in...please
:)

Tom

when these two forces meet they fuse, creating another dimension where the one force can just keep on going forever while the other one is holding it back forever. It's a dimension of paradoxes.

you see, the wall can never let anything through..right, it doesn't matter which dimension, the same with the other force, it cannot be stopped, no where this dimention is created or it just 'switches' i dont know, but either way the dimention which we are in will have the force being stopped, not allowed, or in the other as this one the wall will break, so im arfaid not...

you know in only 15,

do you think that would matter?

Tom

im sorry people, im outta here.

you can e-mail me if you want...

www.divine_key@yahoo.co.uk (http://www.divine_key@yahoo.co.uk)

thanks, will continue tomorrow, GMT+0, cya

could they exist?

could...