Zoroaster vs Abraham

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by mopc, Feb 13, 2005.

  1. mopc Registered Member

    Messages:
    8
    In the 500s before Christ, the Iranian ("persian")Empire conquered all of the Near East and much of North India, Central Asia.

    The emperor which conquered the middle east, Kurosh (Cyrus), set the hebrews enslaved in Babylon free and let them return to Israel, the Tanakh/Bible calls Kurosh thus mashiakh (messiah), the anointed one.

    The Iranians did not impose their religion (Zoroastrism) to others, but usually tried to subvert them. Ezra and Daniel were employees of the Empire and especially Ezra or people associated with him are the most likely to have put hebrew oral tradition in written form and edit those writings into the first issue of what we call the Old Testament/Tanakh: Torah, Neviim and Ketuvim (Law, Prophets and Writings), of course some of the books in Ketuvim appeared later.

    Elements such as angels, good vs. evil, heaven vs. hell, judgment day were absent from the Torah, which tells the oldest hebrew/Abrahamic traditions. In the Torah, the souls of the dead went to Sheol, no matter what.

    Zoroastrism had angels, good vs. evil, heaven and hell and judgment. Those elements thus probably got into hebrew belief by Iranian influence. The very belief that there is only one God and all others are imagined is more Zoroastrian than early Abrahamic, since the Torah and some other books hint at the interpretation that only one god is worthy of praise, the other gods exist but are unworthy.

    Well, this is a theory I read. What do you think?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. duendy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,585
    Yes, Zoroastrianism has had amuch influence on Judaism, and also western Greek mystical philosophy,. THAt influence probably coming from its influence from Asian influences. in my notes it says "The root 'devil' and 'deva' means 'divine'. It was only after Zoroaster and the Persians conquered Hidu territory that they felt compelled to make the hindu gods into devils. Thus the Hindu devas became the Persian devils."

    we know Zoroaster was a PRPHET, right. and when you look at the pattern with the revealed religions (ie., religious dotrine that demands a prophet) you see this same old separation of 'good' and 'evil', 'light' and 'dark'....this is the source of division
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. mopc Registered Member

    Messages:
    8
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. scorpius a realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,234
    WHY?

    why does every religion teaches their god is the the best?
     
  8. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,346
    mopc: In the 500s before Christ, the Iranian ("persian")Empire conquered all of the Near East and much of North India, Central Asia.

    The emperor which conquered the middle east, Kurosh (Cyrus), set the hebrews enslaved in Babylon free and let them return to Israel, the Tanakh/Bible calls Kurosh thus mashiakh (messiah), the anointed one.
    *************
    M*W: I hadn't read this theory before, but I'm beginning to see another 'pattern' of religious evolution here.
    *************
    mopc: The Iranians did not impose their religion (Zoroastrism) to others, but usually tried to subvert them. Ezra and Daniel were employees of the Empire and especially Ezra or people associated with him are the most likely to have put hebrew oral tradition in written form and edit those writings into the first issue of what we call the Old Testament/Tanakh: Torah, Neviim and Ketuvim (Law, Prophets and Writings), of course some of the books in Ketuvim appeared later.

    Elements such as angels, good vs. evil, heaven vs. hell, judgment day were absent from the Torah, which tells the oldest hebrew/Abrahamic traditions. In the Torah, the souls of the dead went to Sheol, no matter what.
    *************
    M*W: Yes, I've read that.
    *************
    mopc: Zoroastrism had angels, good vs. evil, heaven and hell and judgment. Those elements thus probably got into hebrew belief by Iranian influence. The very belief that there is only one God and all others are imagined is more Zoroastrian than early Abrahamic, since the Torah and some other books hint at the interpretation that only one god is worthy of praise, the other gods exist but are unworthy.

    Well, this is a theory I read. What do you think?
    *************
    M*W: Yes, I could buy this argument. It's closely linked with the Torah beliefs that came out of Egypt by the pharaoh Mosis (of the Petateuch) while he was leading the Egyptian nomadic habiru to a land (hopefully, promised to have a better supply of food). Mosis, the pharaoh, if he existed (who really knows anymore?) was the first known pharaoh to believe in a monotheistic god -- and that 'god' would be the sun. When you research ancient Egyptology by biblical scholars and archeologists, you will find that, perhaps, the habiru (early Hebrews) were actually Egyptians and NOT a different sect of semitic peoples. If we really want to go back and find the original god/s to worship, we need look no further than the heavens (but that's where the xian god resides, too)! See how myths, legends and lore, evolve through generations of people! They way I see it is quite simple. There are no god/s in the universe other than the god/s early humans feared and needed. If Judaism can be discounted as a true religion, xianity most definitely can, and the whole human race is back to square one -- the sun, moon, stars, planets and elements!!!
     
  9. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,346
    duendy: Yes, Zoroastrianism has had amuch influence on Judaism, and also western Greek mystical philosophy,. THAt influence probably coming from its influence from Asian influences. in my notes it says "The root 'devil' and 'deva' means 'divine'. It was only after Zoroaster and the Persians conquered Hidu territory that they felt compelled to make the hindu gods into devils. Thus the Hindu devas became the Persian devils."

    we know Zoroaster was a PRPHET, right. and when you look at the pattern with the revealed religions (ie., religious dotrine that demands a prophet) you see this same old separation of 'good' and 'evil', 'light' and 'dark'....this is the source of division.
    *************
    M*W: Brilliant!
     
  10. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,346
    scorpius: WHY?

    why does every religion teaches their god is the the best?
    *************
    M*W: The inflated human ego.
     
  11. mopc Registered Member

    Messages:
    8
    What boggles me is that Zoroastrism and its influence are so little known even by scholars of religion. Take Karen Armstrong's "A History of God". The only history of God worth researching for her is the Abrahamic one - the subtitle says already "3000 thousand years of search by Christianity, Judaism and Islam". That I call Abrahamic Chauvinism.

    The Zoroastrian influence I mentioned above is not even mentioned by Mrs. Armstrong, probably due to ignorance.
     
  12. duendy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,585
    Maybe an 'unconscious' reluctance explore TOO close, the roots of the patriarcal split of the COMPLIMENTARY opposites

    And of course the Persian influence on structure of Abrahamic belief systems.
     

Share This Page