Zero-Point Energy

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by TimeTraveler, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

    Here is a question, is Zero Point Energy real? Do you think this could be the energy of Consciousness? Of life itself?

    Check out this video, it's interesting,

    Let me know if you can disprove it. The video really makes the case and it's difficult to dispute.
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  3. Absane Rocket Surgeon Valued Senior Member

    It's 1.5+ hours long? You cannot expect many people to watch it.

    However you might get a response or two about "zero-point energy."
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Zero point energy is a simple concept in quantum mechanics. The zero point energy of a system is simply the lowest energy a system can have. This is tied in with things like the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.

    The woo woo crowd have an entirely different concept of zero point energy than the physics crowd. Since the woo woos don't know what energy is, to start with, they have all kinds of strange, mystical ideas about what zero point energy might be - "energy of consciousness" for example.

    What is "energy of consciousness"? How can it be measured? With what instruments?

    It's a useless concept, and nothing to do with science.

    "Energy of consciousness" is like "crystal power" or "pyramid power", as far as I can see. I don't need to watch a 1.5 hour video to see that.
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  7. Mosheh Thezion Registered Senior Member

    GET YOURself a good box....

    and empty it... completely....

    no air... no electromagnetic energy at all.. no photons.. no heat.. no radio waves.

    and if you can... remove the space as well....

    then.. when the box is completely empty.. you will have a zero point module.

    then just connect some system to convert the potential energy of matter, and waves, and space...... as it is slowly allowed to fill the box.

    and wahla... zero point energy....

    so... good luck.

    ive tried to think of how to build one... but its complicated.
    if you have any luck let me know.

  8. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    How do you propose to do that?
  9. Mosheh Thezion Registered Senior Member

    if i knew.... id have built one already... thats the hard part.

  10. kazakhan Registered Abuser Registered Senior Member

    Oh so that explains ol' Baron Max. No-one has bothered to hook a load up to his head and he's overheating

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  11. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

    An even simpler explanation (or perhaps one which puts it into proper context) should mention absolute zero.

    Anything, reduced to absolute zero, should have absolutely no motion. There should be no energy. No motion. No nothing. Basically everything should be completely frozen.

    However, due to uncertainty, this is impossible.
    If the motion of electrons were stopped, then you could measure their energy and their momentum at the same time and this violates uncertainty.

    So. Even at absolute zero, there is some jittery motion going on.

    This is zero-point energy.

    Or am I wrong here?

    The thing is that absolute zero cannot be reached. Not only due to quantum physics, but also due to classical physics. Thermodynamics would prevent a system from ever reaching absolute zero.

    So. No zero-point energy...

    That is, unless it is exactly as defined by James and is the lowest energy a system can have. In which case, zero-point energy is achievable above absolute zero temperature?
  12. Mosheh Thezion Registered Senior Member

    ive imagined it in a number of ways..

    1) a hole in space.. a tiny black hole i can keep in my pocket..
    it is connected to a very efficient fan+ generator.. and a small tube allows air to blow in.. threw the fan. .. and into the black hole...

    but thats still a big hole.

    2) a smaller hole, which obsorbs radiation, and or just heat....
    in this way.. we could have a very cold.. super cold box.. almost zero.. as the hole in space... would be the enternal zero... which is obsorbing all the heat.
    then we could build a simple heat transfer engine.. and wahla.. zero point energy.

    but.. a smaller hole is no easier to make... unfortuanately.

    3) liquid nitrogen powered... or powdered helium engines.

    4) cheating somehow, and inducing by magnetic means a looping space in motion into a presumed zero.

    5) a new kind of nuclear energy, which would seem like sero point energy.

  13. c7ityi_ Registered Senior Member

    yep, it's the all-pervading consciousness/life/ether energy. but you should post it in pseudo

    the world consists of thoughts, movements of consciousness... consciousness creates the sensation of matter, and by observing you perpetuate the creation, the observations send back the thoughts and the connection continues.

    the world is a projection of your consciousness. everything here is inside you, inside consciousness. you are not separate from it, but because you identify yourself with your physical body, you think you are.

    it's not scientific to say that there is an objective world, because it's totally unprovable. you can't know the rest of the planet exists if you don't see it. if your consciousness is not there. there is only one consciousness. yours.

    you're like a programmer who left his office. the program keeps running but it's out of control, you have no control over it anymore.

    i'm part of that program. you created me to say this to you!!!!!! to remind you. we're like gods who use our creative power to make us powerless and limited.
  14. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    This is something that seems to come up over and over again, and it has always confused me. In my physics class when we learned about zero point energy it was explained as the result of the energy in a quantum harmonic oscillator being proportional to n+1/2, so even if n=0 there will still be a small amount of energy in the system.

    Yet when people talk about zero point energy they seem to think it's some sort of magic way to get lots of free energy from nothing, or something. Are they talking about some other definition of zero point energy? Or are they just idiots?
  15. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

    Does zero-point energy pertain to the jitteriness that would be seen at absolute zero or not?
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    The ones who know what they're talking about are referring to the zero-point energy of the quantum vacuum. The fact that such an energy exists comes out of quantum field theories.

    Knowing that the energy is there and tapping it, however, are two completely different things. For example, it is the zero-point energy of the vacuum which allows virtual particles to pop into existence for short periods of time, then annihilate each other again. Keeping those particles in existence requires extra energy, proving the point once again that you can't get something for nothing.
  17. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

    Maybe with a portable black hole?
  18. AntonK Technomage Registered Senior Member

    A portable black hole wouldn't provide you with zero point energy, but it may allow you a nice way to convert matter into energy. Given a small black hole, regulardly fed with matter, this black hole should radiate energy back out at a constant rate via Hawkin's radiation. Provided you fed it the proper charged material, you could even keep it in place using a magnetic field. Seems like a decent power source, given the extrememly good conversation rate that Einstein gave us for matter to energy.


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