Zak's Answers to CountZero from Alqueda - Lodon (locked thread)

Hi all,

i hope you are well and had good weekends

Before the ALqueda v London thread was locked count zero got back to me so i thought it would be rude not to reply

Anyway this is what he says

As posted By CountZero

You can start by looking at Muslim societies, which are ruled largely by inhumane religious laws. Some of my favorites are the ones that advocate sewing women's vagina's closed, stoning the women who overcome such techniques and commit adultery, as well as the torture and killing of homosexuals. In these cases, I doubt the women or the gays volunteered or chose to be treated that way, but they were treated that way nonetheless, because the Muslims want to rule with and through religion, not secular power..

In Asnwer to the above i ahve the follwing points

1) Which muslim societies are run by reiligous law
2) what is religious law?
3) what countries are you talking about
4) how do you know that these societies are run by religious law
5) in what countrries do the laws of the land say you have to sew women's vaginas... and all the other stuff you ahve exclaimed withouit backing up which i ahve highlighted in green for your convenience



Countzero continues

You can also look at the attempts to install practices dubbed "tolerant" in the West. And while these by and large do not involve stitching or death, they are still important. Some specific examples that come to mind are the case where Muslims don't want to sell people pork, demand basins be installed so they can wash their feet, demand they be allowed to wear head-to-toe garments or complain about traditional symbols like the St. George's Cross in England. All of their complaints are religious based and amount to them not liking the Western world as they find it and seeking to change it.

Dear countZero,

do you beleive in Freetrade, if so then surely if those guys dont want to sell pork thats their choice, rather like tesco's (UK supermarket) delisting a manufacturers product,. which happens quite often. Also could you give examples of the stuff i have highlighted in green, as to where this has been demanded and instances as i am not aware of any of it.

Thanks for your help in advance

~~~~~~~~~~~~

take care
zak

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

As I posted in that thread, many Muslim nations, that is nations who are largely made up by Muslims and have a Muslim executive in charge of the government, base their juris prudence on sharia religious laws or teachings in the Koran and what the religious leadership interprets is moral or immoral. Not all are as grossly obvious as places like Iran, but that's a good place to start looking, as the mullahs there aren't terribly tolerant people.

Many of the inhumane treatments I listed are carried out in places like Saudi Arabia and Malaysia. The former still has beheads people and stones them. It also whips them and the fellow doing the whipping is required to have a Koran tucked under his arm pit. The vaginal mutilation I referred to is most often practiced in parts of Muslim Africa. The subhuman treatment of women and gays in most (if not all) of the Muslim world is well known, I think, though if pressed, I'm sure I could provide you examples beyond the obvious rights denied women by Muslim governments and the lack of tolerance of male-on-male sexual encounters.

The other examples are specific enough to track down, I think. Kansas, I believe it was, used taxpayer funds to install foot basins for Muslim cab drivers. England (and France) has been banning/allowing the Muslim veils (etc.) off and on for a few years in a battle of secularist/religious, and there have been one or two cases where men in that country have sued, arguing they wanted to work for the British government, but didn't think they should be forced to wear the insignia of the Royals, which includes the St. George Cross.

If people don't want to sell pork, then they shouldn't take jobs where they are required to sell pork. That seems simple enough to me. I've never applied for a job to shovel shit, using much the same logic.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Ridiculous. Please provide an example of any Islamic theocracy besides Saudi Arabia and Iran.

You obviously have very little knowledge of Islam and Muslim countries. Many Muslim countries follow Western law systems such as English common law, etc. Please read more.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

I don't think I said anything about theocracies, but a nation does not have to be a theocracy to "base their juris prudence on sharia religious laws or teachings in the Koran and what the religious leadership interprets is moral or immoral," does it?

Or do you think Islamic customs and religious practices do not dominate the judicial and social practices in nations such as Dubai, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Malaysia and many, many others?

 

Five minutes on google would answer all your questions. Count is correct in everything he said.

 

All the subsequent countries you mentioned are have secular governments.

Your argument is completely wrong, any fool on the internet can say what he wants, but because its on google doesn't qualify it as fact.

 

As demonstrated by your self.

 

They may have or claim to have secular governments, but they are making and enforcing laws that are based largely on Sharia law and traditional Islamic practices.

Let's pick just one of the countries I mention, the UAE. There's some interesting material here on Wikipedia, most of it heavily footnoted.

"The Presidency and Premiership of the United Arab Emirates is hereditary to the Al Nahyan clan of Abu Dhabi and the Al Maktoum clan of Dubai respectively. The Supreme Council, consisting of the rulers of the seven emirates, also elects the Council of Ministers, while an appointed forty-member Federal National Council, drawn from all the emirates, reviews proposed laws. There is a federal court system; all emirates except Dubai and Ras al-Khaimah have joined the federal system; all emirates have both secular and Islamic law for civil, criminal, and high courts."

Or how about this? Note where the map gets colorful and cast your mind around to figure out what the religion there is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:World_homosexuality_laws.png

 

Dear Zero

Surely you can do better??!!!

You havent really answered the questions ahve you?

just pure rehtoric

~~~~~~~~~~

take it ez
zak

 

Hey, the other thread isn't locked.

 

Mr Dear Sandy

if you are not willing to back anything up with facts then you may dispense with the nonsense untill your intellectual capacity is such so that you can respond with something resembling a decent post.

Your little post resembles nothing but stupidity.

Until people like you, count and others along with muslims who carry similar but contrasting views stop this mind set then their will never be any sort of harmony around.

Stop trying to fuel race hatred... i dont know how you could say you follow jesus when he stood for the complete opposite of the nonsense you spin.

Shame on you Sandy

~~~~~~~~~
take it ez
zak

 

Good Morning MadAnt

i think it is mate!!

its the Alqueda VS London thread

~~~~~~~
take it ez
zak

 

Sorry, you're right. I thought you were refering to the UK terror alert thread.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

Why bother with facts? Most people don't listen/believe anyway.

"Stop this mindset." What mindset? You mean the one that says: we are tired of/fed up and p!ssed off about muslims behaving like crazed animals and blowing up buildings/people/themselves. We are finally taking action against their bs. We're finally speaking up/out. No more pc bs. This is reality folks. There are muslims who want us dead. Very dead.

Your denial/defense of muslim violence is abhorring. Look around the world. Who is constantly committing atrocities against innocent humans? Christian women?

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

There hasn't been any "harmony" for years. Evil people have seen to that.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

And knock off the personal attacks. They're not necessary, they negate everything else you say, and they make you look foolish.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

Dear sandex,

thank you for getting back to me and making an effort to respond, however i dont think you have really understood what i am saying

which people dont listen and why do you expect people to beleive stuff espically if you dont back it up.

i often debate with MadAnt and Buffalo, to name but 2 examples of people with different views to me, and i do take their views ionto consideration and we do agree from time to time.

by "we" i take you mean the US governemnt or the west. Well shame they are getting it all wrong then isn't it. Surely the best place to start would be the nerve centre of it all Saudi Arabia, but why have you done bugger all with the house of Saud.

I take it you have not been reading the Uk terror attacks thread.. oh yes you have posted in it, but alas you have not read my comments.

please can you retract your statement about my "denial/defense of muslim violence "

the post in this thread was not a personal attack if it was i am sure the Mighty Bell or another mod will hammer me for it and i wish they would.

please sandex if you ahve something to say back it up with a genuine source as unbiased as you can get (obviously all sourdces are biased) but please try.

i apologise if i have offended you in anyway in the past, their is no excuse for it. i will try to do better in future.

And for the record i have NEVER PM you so dont throw me in "that" category you keep trying to create.

~~~~~~~~~~
take it ez
zak

 

Rhetoric my foot. I gave you specific examples from specific countries. In another thread I linked to specific material. What more do you want? Google Amnesty International's report on Saudi Arabia. Or the UAE. Or Malaysia. Or a host of other Arab/Muslim nations...

 

Count, please explain this to me, as my original question was relating to this gross oversimplification of reality.

Also, I have lived in the Middle East for a long time (unlike most of the other posters on this forum), so this is why I am qualified to discuss the culture and religion of the Middle East. Everything I say is from personal experience and my arguments on Islam are always backed by Islamic sources.

 

Interesting. Since you brought it up, what country do you live in? Also, you say you've lived in the middle east for a long time; where are you from originally? Were you a Muslim from birth, or a convert?

 

I'm from Punjab, Pakistan. I'm in the US right now.

 

Are you a student? Do you plan to remain in the US or return to Pakistan?

As a Pakistani, what do you think of Musharraf? Do you think one of the assassination attempts will ultimately be sucessful? Do you think he'll survive the whole judicial scandal?

Should Musharraf lose power or be killed, what kind of government would follow? Would it continue as an ally with the US in the war on terror?