Your Thoughts On Farenheit 9/11

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Taye, Dec 12, 2004.

  1. Taye Registered Member

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    well, last night i watched it for the first time, i loved it, as any bush-hater would, it was awsome. please post any of your thoughts/comments here
     
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  3. zanket Human Valued Senior Member

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    My thought is that I wish some major TV network had the guts to put it on primetime before the election.
     
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  5. isis25 Registered Senior Member

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    i hate bush but i think that michael moore has no tact. he is the rush limbaugh of democrats.
     
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  7. patcho Registered Senior Member

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    that movie is a mish-mash of conspiracy theories. If you hate Bush, I don't recommend this, Moore distorts everything, he doesn't do the liberal cause any good.
    A good site debunking everything in that rubbish is:

    http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

    Its quite long, but I'm sure you're all after the truth and would gladly take some time out to read it

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  8. Silas asimovbot Registered Senior Member

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    That's a good link. Michael Moore would be in the pantheon of liberal anti-authoritarian journalism alongside people like John Pilger, if were not for the fact that he uses the enemy's techniques - ie selective editing, out of context quoting, misleading commentary and the occasional outright lie.

    Way back when, he was very good on how his home town of Flint was shat upon from a great height by GM. I think that work changed some of the corporate landscape (nowadays companies don't even begin by setting up a factory in the States - they just go straight abroad), but going dead set against a political incumbent just doesn't have the same kind of resonance, and as we saw from the result of the Election, could be considered counter-productive.
     
  9. patcho Registered Senior Member

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    Yeh, I liked Roger and Me, though apparently he uses some of the some tactics as in F9/11, to a lesser extent though, but I'd still recommend it. He certainly had promise as a docu maker but his hate for the right and willingness to distort things has blunted it somewhat. By the way, I heard there was some docu on Bush in the 2000 election primaries, know where I can find it?
     
  10. zanket Human Valued Senior Member

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    I examined the site. There is no doubt that Moore distorts and sensationalizes. I couldn’t finish Bowling for Columbine for that reason. However, the debunking site has its own deceit which overpowers all of Moore’s combined: the site uses the term liberation for Afghanistan and Iraq when clearly the US installed puppet dictators and will rule those countries forevermore. Moore may go about it the wrong way, but his target audience will forgive him because there is no question that Bush is a bad bad guy.

    This point wasn’t lost on those who wrote Kopel to rebut his debunking. I also agree with this writer:

     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2004
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    35,610
    Kopel's site simply shows that some people don't know how to watch movies. An example at the outset:

    This sort of thing cracks me up. It inherently demands a correlation between narrative and scene that makes the use of "File Footage" in certain televised news reports deceitful. Most people simply don't have that perception problem.

    Kopel's rebuttal of Moore depends entirely on a "strict literalism" akin to young-earth creationism. Not all young-earth creationists who insist on a literal interpretation of the Bible cover their wives heads in church. Thus, like Kopel, they assign a "personal literalism" that is difficult for them to explain; it looks like a selective literalism, which is not really literalism at all.

    Incidentally, this sort of thinking is common to conservative "rebuttals" of liberalism.

    Al Franken's detractors show similar problems understanding what they are looking at; their rebuttals frequently rebut points of their own invention.

    Of Fahrenheit 9/11 itself, I was actually disappointed when I saw it: after all the hype, I figured Moore had his knives out and was slashing away at Bush like a madman. It was kind of like the time someone talked me into watching an "awesome" Schwarzeneggar film called Eraser. After all the hype about that one, I foolishly expected a good movie.

    With Moore, I got a good movie. An excellent movie. My biggest question coming away from it was what the hell everyone was so upset about. I have yet to find a site by Moore's detractors that doesn't make me wonder if they're capable of watching a news story without calling file footage fraudulent.
     
  12. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    5,874
    I, too, found it fascinating that all of Moore's critics seemed to zoom in on trivial criticisms of the film and not the more major accusations Moore made or the significant questions he raised. The most severe criticism they seemed able to muster was that Moore was deceptive in the "Capital Hill Enlistment Segment" where he attempted to get a few Congressmen to enlist their kids.

    I was also fascinated by how many people I know personally that would trash his movie for about two or three minutes and then, when I asked where they saw the film at, they replied, "I'm not paying money to go see that garbage!"

    It's also interesting how unglued conservative pundits became over Moore's activities the last few years. I guess it's only okay to have over-the-top, loudmouthed, fat conservative entertainers who bash liberal politicians and views.
     
  13. Odin'Izm Procrastinator Registered Senior Member

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    Personaly i liked the movie it got through to those who were blind about the situation before. of-course it was a bit rash and not very firmly based , but its effect was possitive on the world.
     
  14. otheadp Banned Banned

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    cheap propaganda for those who lack critical thinking skills (i.e. majority of population anywhere)

    that's moore's market segment.. and he's a good businessman.

    i'm sure he's got some convictions that even critical thinkers would agree with. but this movie, while a manifestation of those convictions, is irrational and flawed.

    his goal was to influence the election -- at any [legal] cost -- so he took his gloves off and went for the cheap propaganda. i guess i'd do the same if i were him.

    and you know what, it wasn't even a very interesting movie. my gf, the Bush hater, almost fell asleep. and i, the political junkie, was sort of bored too. maybe his skills are getting rusty
     
  15. Jagger Registered Senior Member

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    i'm sure he's got some convictions that even critical thinkers would agree with. but this movie, while a manifestation of those convictions, is irrational and flawed.

    his goal was to influence the election -- at any [legal] cost -- so he took his gloves off and went for the cheap propaganda. i guess i'd do the same if i were him.


    We are talking about Michael Moore...not about neocons.
     
  16. certified psycho Beware of the Shockie Monkey Registered Senior Member

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    I liked the movie. Very interesting even thought MIchael Moore probably changed some of the facts. www.bowlingfortruth.com here something for the movie bowling for columbine.
     
  17. beenjammin2lp Registered Member

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    ok...heres the thing about all the bush haters...its "i hate bush" i have heard 3 ppl say..."i support somone else" its always negative on bush...never positive on anyone else...like everyones "abb" it doesn't make sense
     
  18. zanket Human Valued Senior Member

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    3,777
    It makes sense when we've got a megalomaniac in the White House.
     
  19. aw3524 Registered Senior Member

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    Overall it was an entertaining movie. I don't like how he "edited the truth" however.
     
  20. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

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    Such as...
     
  21. fadingCaptain are you a robot? Valued Senior Member

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    othead,
    Raw footage of soldiers being blown up, parents in distress over dead children, beheadings....I can see how many different views on this movie would exist...but I am not sure how 'boring' could be one. Do you normally indulge yourself in snuff?

    Er to the topic....It was a fascinating film. Yes it was slanted and at times deceptive in the way emotion was used. The section of the grieving mom was thinly relevant. Yes, there are real people and children dying in Iraq, but this should have been treated more respectfully, IMO. Other than that there was amazing footage and some interesting accusations put on the table. The points weren't groundbreaking (we've talking about Saudi connections and such for a long time here), but it is important they be out in the open.

    I have talked to people that love the movie, hate the movie, and otherwise. The level of personal hatred toward Moore I hear is unsettling to me.
     
  22. nbachris2788 Registered Senior Member

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    Hey, the right-wing usually gets free passes when they lie because they supposedly don't know any better than to lie, cheat, and raise fears. Moore is only giving them a taste of their own medicine, and suddenly this uproar over "ethics" and "truthfulness"? Haha. This is politics, they don't exist.
     
  23. CounslerCoffee Registered Senior Member

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    4,997
    Oh yeah, nbachris2788 is so right. Multiple films by Michael Moore, which are seen more (And have better box office effects), are so much better than right wing films. The fact that 99% of all Hollywood is liberals, is such a coincidence that I'd shit myself.

    Truth in politics? You only need look at the 2004 election to see the truth. The truth is that people are tired of liberal crap. They don't want your crap. You call them stupid and retarded and expect them to turn up and vote for the liberals? Shit. You guys don't know what the hell you're doing.

    I remember a time when people were decent, when they respected one another. And, while that might be the 80's, I still believe it to be possible. So stop calling people liars and morons and get up off your fucking ass and do something about it. Call your republican friend interesting and smart, call your liberal friend a rebel without a cause... I don't give a shit.

    Fuck, don't listen to me, I'm tore.
     

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