You Just Broke Your Child

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Kittamaru, May 23, 2014.

  1. Gerry Nightingale Banned Banned

    Messages:
    278
    In reply to all on this "thread", re: child abuse.

    My sister and I and grew up with a mother who regularly "beat the hell" out of both of us. It took years for me to realize that my mother was a "monster that doesn't know

    it's a monster". My sis survived our childhood more "intact" than myself, although she has her own strong issues...I have not spoken to her in thirty years, more or less.

    (I am a living reminder of the past she doesn't want to remember, and I can't blame my "big sis" for this)

    If any of you have ever seen/read "Mommie Dearest", then you would have an accurate depiction of my mother. A psychopath of the "first water".

    (Oh...don't think she wasn't clever! Far from it! She knew "how much" she could get away with, nothing that meant a hospital visit)

    Where was my father in all this? I don't know. My step-dad never had that much interest in either of us, and rarely intervened...I think he was too busy being a "whore-chaser".

    (I know almost nothing about my father or my step-dad! Sounds impossible, I know, but it's true! Very little of anything "personal"...his family, etc.)

    The end result of childhood abuse...the nights of terror, waiting for the bedroom door to slam open, waiting for a whipping for something that happened weeks ago?

    Me. A life-long emotional basket-case of self-destructive behavior, "baggage" from a past I can't escape, no matter how much I ignore it.

    Do I dwell on the past? No. In fact, I rarely think about "the bad stuff" anymore...like most people, I remember the good things.

    What does all of this mean? It means, like the song..."everybody hurts...everybody cries". And there is no "undoing the past".

    "Report child abuse?" In my opinion, it's WORTHLESS! It's a way for someone to make themselves feel "righteous", as in "I did the right thing, the bad parent will be

    punished!" Oh yes...and guess who else will be punished? The kid or kids. As surely as night follows day.

    Do I advocate do nothing? No.

    Walk up to the parent and say "What you're doing is wrong, and you know it's wrong...don't punish your kids for what happened in your life! Don't you know that making

    they're lives better makes your life better...it's true!" It might actually work. It's worth a try.

    Or you might try this.

    "Do you want to be "free" of your kid? You hate how they interfere with your life? Then give them TO ME! I will love them and cherish them and pay for everything they need.

    Give them to me, here and now...no "papers", no proceedings, no court decrees, no nothing...you can visit them anytime, if you want to...they can go with you, if they want to".

    Think this never happens for real? You would be wrong. I know it happens. (no, I will never reveal "who" or "where"...but it involved a eight-year old boy, whose smile

    could change the world and the Universe just by being there (just ignore the cigarette burn scars, they will fade...despite they are everywhere, even his penis)

    It wasn't easy for the "instant" parents...the man gave up a newer car, just signed over the title and of course, money.

    And the business of school and so forth...but the man and his wife MADE IT WORK. And they already had a child of their own...and now a new brother!

    (Sorry, I'm starting to "rant" now, but I can't stop on this topic...it churns up too much stuff)


    (Thanks for reading!)
     
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  3. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    No need to apologize mate - you are exactly right. I had a girlfriend whose stepfather was incredibly abusive, both physically and emotionally... according to her, he raped her twice. Problem is, any time she would call the cops, her mother would defend the guy, saying how either she (the girl) deserved it or some such crap... even though she was often answering the door with bruises on her face or eyes because of this monster.

    Eventually, her father sued for custody... but yeah... our "system" for handling true abuse is just broke to all hell...
     
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  5. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Name a "highly-specific instance" in which you thank a child bein physicaly punished is warranted.!!!

    What age do you thank children shoud be befor they start reveivin these finger-hit punishments to the back of the head when ther behavior needs to be remedied.???
     
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  7. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Well, as I said - something insanely stupid. As for age - they have to be mature enough (age is a terrible indicator for this) to get the joke as well as the meaning.

    Do note - I'm not advocating beating or even hurting them, so please do not misunderstand it as such.
     
  8. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,746
    If a light finger-smack to the back of the head in a jokin way doesnt remedy ther insanely stupid behavior... then what.???
     
  9. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    Did she keep doing this as you became older, bigger and stronger? Don't any children in a situation like this decide to start fighting back?

    Are abusive parents ever killed by their abused children? I'm a pacifist, but hell even I would forgive them for it.

    Sure, killing somebody, much less a parent, is going to leave some very deep psychological scars. But so does endless abuse--as you both well know.

    This is one of the many reasons I insist that martial arts should be taught to every child in the early grades. All the bullies are NOT on the school playground.

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  10. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    I dunno - haven't gotten there yet. Hell, for that matter, haven't had kids yet. I can speculate all day long, but truthfully... I don't know for sure. Our plan is to, as I said, instill a sense of honor into our kids... to make it so they understand that their word has value and to go back on their word is to break that trust.
     
  11. Gerry Nightingale Banned Banned

    Messages:
    278
    In reply to Fraggle Rocker, re: abuse

    When you are a kid, you are a KID! If I hurt my mother...what about my sister? What will happen to her? What will happen to me? These are the thoughts in your mind when you're six and

    seven and eight...the things you don't know FRIGHTEN you more than something you do know! I knew she had a "bad head" when I was six years old! Even then! But I didn't know what

    to do...I thought "I MADE HER DO THIS". This is how a kid sees things...and thinks things. I didn't know any better...I thought other kids had parents like mine! I didn't know.

    You have to remember that in the 1950's they still had "paddles" in school, at least in Detroit they did..."swats" for misbehavior were condoned then! I thought being punished meant

    being swatted at the least...and then "getting a whippin" at home for "causing trouble".

    There was NO ESCAPE then. I tried suicide at NINE! I took every single pill I could find in the house...everything. I knew about "sleep pills" and I thought they would work (valium) but

    I hadn't counted on my sister. She came home after band practice was canceled, and found me and called the police. You can guess the rest of it.

    Unfortunately, things rarely work-out like a t.v. show...everything comes "right" at the end, somehow.

    For me, it was more like chapters from a Steven King novel, with my mother as "Annie Wilkes". You see, I learned how to "hide" in my books and comics and t.v. shows. What I didn't know

    then was how much of "real life" I would miss in my "hiding". Once you learn "how to hide", how to "not be noticed"...it makes things easier, and very, very hard to stop.

    I'm still trying to "stop hiding" at 60, and I think it's too late for me now to really change.

    (my books are still my friends, the only friends I've ever had)

    I will say something more that I cannot explain...I was at a Wal-Mart shopping a few months ago, as I went around the corner of an aisle with my cart, and I saw a boy about seven or so,

    sitting on the linoleum cross-leg, his face scrunched-up in concentration looking at a magazine. He looked up at me and gave me a shy smile and a quick wave of his skinny arm and said "Hi".

    I said "Hi" back with a hand wave, and kept on with my shopping. And then I noticed my eyes were leaking. I was crying...why?

    I managed to get out of the store and kept wiping my eyes as if an allergy were acting up. I don't think anyone caught on.

    I found myself crying for two days! Why? I still have difficulty trying find what went on in my head to trigger something like this...am I seeing myself as the boy I was, and crying for him?

    Maybe. I can't think of anything else. I think that little boy is still hiding inside me, somewhere. He cannot "grow up". No matter how old he is.


    (Thanks for reading!)
     
  12. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,746
    Set a good esample in you'r own life an the kids will follow... be respectfull an you will be respected... if you feel the need to holler/hit... up you'r game an be a beter parent.!!!

    Way to many people have issues wit ther parents even after ther parents have died... not me... an i feel so lucky that i dont have any memories of bein punished by my parents... an now that ther gone my respect for them still grows.!!!

    I remember tellin my mom one time... "you know... the older i get the more i realize how realy smart you are" an she lol

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  13. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    21,647
    Punishment as handed out by parents, teachers, police, and the courts, as suited to the crime/misdemeanor are in most cases, when applied with compassion and without anger or malice, generally justified.

    I copped well deserved beltings of my old man...I copped deserved corporal punishment from my teachers...I copped a deserved kick up the arse by a dirty big Crown Sargent copper at one time.
    I understand why I copped all of that, and it helped me to grow into a respected law abiding citizen.

    Sometimes, yes sometimes kids can be a real pain in the arse, and sometimes a clip across the ear, does no harm, when applied in a manner as I have mentioned.

    Being a baby boomer that grew up in the fifties, corporal punishment was applied both at home and in school.
    Most of us survived in tact and have not been affected by it in any manner.
    In fact, we benefited from it.
    Naturally though, in some cases, with irresponsible parents, and equally irresponsible teachers, it can be applied in excess.
    I abhore that.
     
  14. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,353
    Paddoboy, I am not trying to be insulting. With due respect, I am absolutely certain you, or any one, would be a far better person if no one had ever laid a hand on you in correction or anger. They could have just talked to you, and sorted out any problems. Gentle ways are best.
     
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,647
    Maybe, maybe not.
    We don't really know.
    In reality what you say may work with some....In reality even corporal disciplinary action, that I speak of would not work with some.
     
  16. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,353
    Mark Twain said words to that effect: 'When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.'
     
  17. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    I was born in 1943 so I remember the 1950s in excruciating detail.

    My parents, fortunately, were not terribly violent. I was spanked or slapped maybe five times total. And frankly I think that a minimal amount of corporal punishment might teach children a very valuable lesson: it IS possible to make somebody so angry that they'll hit you. A lot of kids today act as though they've been taught that they can piss everybody off and get away with it.

    So basically, my parents taught me that violence is NEVER the right way to resolve a dispute. It's one of my most cherished lessons. To this day I have never hit anybody and nobody has ever hit me.

    I spanked my dog once because he was being a real asshole, and I ended up sitting on the floor sobbing for being such an asshole myself. He came over and sat down with me and told me that he forgave me.

    Dogs are wonderful for people like us. I hope you have one!

    Yes, I also remember the paddles in school. My 7th grade English teacher never forgave me for the time he was trying to diagram a sentence and just couldn't figure it out... and I showed him how to do it right. Three months later he came up with a lame excuse for paddling me.

    Fortunately they didn't report paddlings to our parents.

    You're never too old to change. I've changed a lot in the last ten years. Just keep trying.

    You have to be able to forgive people for not being perfect. This begins with forgiving yourself for not being perfect.

    I have a friend who is about as imperfect as they come. She was raised wrong, has some terrible health issues, pig-headed, unrealistic, anorexic, bulimic, and left at the altar twice. She never calls except when she needs help. I'm glad I'm there for her and I always help. I just think of all the people who have helped me. What goes around comes around.

    Perhaps you're comparing yourself at that age to that little boy, who is apparently happy and probably has a good home life.

    It's okay to cry for the little boy in you, and hell, it's okay to cry for the person you are now. But maybe you can find a way to be happy for that little boy. Be grateful that not everybody had the childhood you had.

    Well, OK. That's another way to look at it.

    But you know, it is not too late to get in touch with the little boy inside you. I'm sure you've seen your share of psychiatrists, but call your local chapter of the Jung society and ask for a referral to a Jungian analyst. Make sure you don't get one of the rare Jungian psychiatrists; most of them aren't. A Jungian will be eager to help you get in touch with that little boy.

    Perhaps it is he who can help you!

    It's really not too late. You've got a lot of years left. Find out what you can do with them! We're all gonna die, but there's something to be said for dying happy. My parents and my mother-in-law all died miserable. I'm making it a priority not to follow in their footsteps.

    Corporal punishment is Stone Age behavior. We're supposed to be better than that.

    So the big question is: did you grow up thinking it's really okay to hit people?

    We sure did. (Actually I'm three years too old to be a Boomer, but there weren't enough of us War Babies to comprise a generation. We had to decide whether to hang out with the Boomers or with the Depression Babies. For me it was a no brainer: I liked Chuck Berry a lot more than Glenn Miller.) I think it was all those belts and paddles that helped us understand the need for world peace. It's only a short step from believing it's okay to whomp your own child for being naughty, to believing that it's okay to bomb another country for being naughty.

    That's what made us so fucking angry about Vietnam. We were indiscriminately bombing everybody over there, just because they were "Gooks." They weren't even naughty!

    Unfortunately my dad kept getting dumber. He thought it was really cool to have a son he could teach algebra to at age ten. Then calculus at twelve. By high school I was learning more math than he knew and that was threatening. So he just disparaged me because I didn't have any mechanical aptitude and couldn't fix cars. Then when I became a computer programmer he knew he was done for.

    I almost wish he were alive today (he'd be 103) so he could see all of today's cars, which basically have a sticker on the hood reading, "Warning: no user-serviceable parts inside."

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  18. Gerry Nightingale Banned Banned

    Messages:
    278
    In reply to Fraggle Rocker #34, re: abuse.

    Yes, I have two annoying, demanding a$$hole dogs...and I still like them! Go figure...

    As far as "fixing" me goes...no, the time for that is gone...long ago. Could I be "better" than I am? YES. The chance to help a kid, or kids...YESYESYES!!! This is what I need to make "me"

    better! (I know me better than anyone, and believe me, a "Jungian" is NOT going to work...I would soon be dis-assembling their own "mind-sets" for my amusement) You would think

    I am a pacifist as an adult, and in many ways I am...but my "other" aspect is a stunning propensity to violence. This aspect, like many things in physics, seems literally unstoppable once

    a "causation" is present. "What kind of causation triggers your violent aspect?" (I bet you can guess, and it is the main reason I could no longer work as an EMT, despite devoting HUGE

    amounts of time and effort on my part to learning to be the BEST THERE IS!) Give up?

    I found myself unable to "dis-connect" emotionally from hurt kids...when I "knew" either obviously or from some animal instinct that the "hurt" was INTENTIONAL.

    I could no longer respond to any calls that "might" involve violence against children and young people...I became very afraid of "what I KNOW I am capable of" against anyone who may

    have had a hand in the "causation" of hurt. I had to let go of NINE YEARS of education, work experience, and a "gift" that many would like to have...the ability to "make it better" when

    someone is hurt. (in hundreds of interventions/transports, I NEVER "lost" a single patient...pretty good statistic, yes?)



    Do I think I can change "me" into some new, improved "me?" NO. But I could be a "better" me by being the best help I can for a kid. He or she deserves it.

    I am old now, and yet I see the things that are important with my eyes and mind better than I ever could...kids are the MOST IMPORTANT THINGS IN THIS WORLD, or any other.



    (Thanks for reading!)
     
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,647


    Not much that I can disagree with there.
    Sure it would be ideal to be able to do away with all forms of punishment in a perfect society.
    To answer your question though, one of the times I copped a paddling at home from the old man, was when I was picking on my younger sister. So no, I didn't grow up thinking it was OK to hit people...
    Like you, I have never really hit anyone, other then if I was hit first.
    I did sometimes find it hard to turn the other cheek.

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    Dogs...Love em...have had dogs all my life. Everything from miniature smooth haired Dachsunds, to a Labrador and two Rotty's
    And other then a tap across the nose, have never ever belted any dog of mine.
    A dogs nose is fairly sensitive, and a light tap was all it took.
    All in all, a nice thoughtful post.
     
  20. Gerry Nightingale Banned Banned

    Messages:
    278
    in reply to Fraggle Rocker, re: your #34.

    Theoretical physics is a "piece of cake" compared with human emotions and human interactions! Think of Albert and Mileva and their baby daughter, Liserl. I think what happened destroyed

    them both on a emotional level, and it ruined their marriage (I think they were both very much "entangled" with each other in the usual way, with the bonus of her own fierce intellect

    a match for his...she was almost a "doppellganger" of Albert in many ways) as each knew the "secret heart" of the other and remorse for the "adopting out" of their baby.

    I think the remorse and guilt were so bad they could no longer see love for each other in each others eyes...it poisoned them both.

    I don't think either of them were ever truly happy from that point on, together or separate...they could not forgive each other for what they had done.

    (no one knows the real story of "why" the baby was "given up"...I think Down's Syndrome was the reason. I also think "liserl" died shortly thereafter, but there is no proof of what happened,

    it's a guess on my part) Einstein told his intimate friends more than once that "People like us should never have children...it's far too often a punishment for them and the children".

    I feel this way concerning myself...I have always had a dread of fathering a child too much like me! What a curse that would be! Another "basket-case?" like me? NEVER would I risk it.

    Now...being an instant Dad? Oh, yes! Because I know what "not" to do! I would cherish every tantrum, every "FU I hate you, why can't I hang-out with my friends! Abby's Mom will pick

    us up at so and so's house", every demand for clothes that "fit-in", every drama that the World revolves around, every demand for a mo-ped, every entreaty to wear eye-liner, every

    threat of "I'm gettin' a tattoo", every skinned knee, every broken heart...I WOULD CHERISH IT with all my heart.

    Because I love them...even when they think I don't, because I'm a "step dad".

    "Punishment?" Oh, yes, I know "how" to punish a kid! (think of John Candy in "Uncle Buck") As in "if you not home by 9 from a party, and you don't call...I'm going to show-up at your

    school wearing huge clip-on earrings wearing a "vote for Gay rights" t-shirt and carrying your LUNCH BOX that you "forgot", the one with "Barbie" on it"!

    Can you think of anything more mortifying to a "tween" or 14yr. old than to have an apparently deranged step-dad show up at your school...the news would exhibit FTL factors as it spread

    around in various classes! ( oh yeah...I know how to punish) I think someone could remember to "call" on a permanent basis.


    P.S. paddoboy scares me a little...a good parent will have good kids. NO "belt". And if a "copper" had decided to "have a bash" with me to teach me a "lesson" by the time I was 12, he'd

    best use his gun. He would NEED it. I would cry and weep and beg him to stop...only to let him think he "has me now"...and then he would make the mistake of letting my fingers get close

    to an eye. You would be surprised at how easily they "come out". The trick is to sweep a finger in a "side" motion, rather than a gouge or a "pluck" (it won't work, the anatomy is against it)

    It is the pressure of the eye against the "ridge" portion of the zygomatic arch that makes it easy.

    Not a nice response, is it? I learned a great deal at a very early age from the Merck manual, my favorite "real book" as a pre-teen. Including how to hurt people in ways that would anyone

    normal shudder...no "martial arts" for me. No, "showing some bully up" would only wet my appetite for more.

    My best defense has always been to hide, or to run or curl-up...NEVER to fight. Because of this "facet" of me, I can never allow myself to be in situations where there might be a fight, or some

    sort of challenge...no bars, no nightclubs, no "dance parties". I never dare to risk a fight with anyone. If I got hurt enough...things would not go well for the opponent or me.

    I don't want hurt anyone ever, I have had enough of hurt! I loath this part of me, and I loath the one caused a "poison fruit" to blossom in me.

    Now you see I'm a little more complex than you supposed...in my own way, I'm a "monster" too! The difference is I know it.

    When I was young, I tried various cutting and burning on myself in a useless attempt to be rid of my "personal demons". It didn't work...but my books always gave me comfort, so I turned

    to them "full-time" to escape being "me". This did and does work, but the price was very high, and I'm still "making payments". I have lately had thoughts that, in fact, there is no

    "real me" that somehow I became an amalgam of "what I know" best, my books! Now that's a peculiar thought!

    (don't get thinking I'm incapable of interaction with others, or that I'm too fearful or timid to experience real life...I laugh at the usual things, I still love rock n roll (diehard Beatles fan) and

    Art (esp. the Wyeth family) and I try hard not take all of my personal crap all that seriously, and for some odd reason, I'm enthralled with theoretical physics! Where did that come from?)


    I bet you hope I'm done "ranting" about my "nasty little bits" of my time as a kid! I think so. There are stills wonders and joys to find, usually when you least expect it!

    I know, it happened to me once when I met/found Her...but that's a different "thread".


    (Thanks for reading!) Cheerio!
     
  21. Gerry Nightingale Banned Banned

    Messages:
    278
    in reply to Fraggle Rocker, re: your #34.

    Theoretical physics is a "piece of cake" compared with human emotions and human interactions! Think of Albert and Mileva and their baby daughter, Liserl. I think what happened destroyed

    them both on a emotional level, and it ruined their marriage (I think they were both very much "entangled" with each other in the usual way, with the bonus of her own fierce intellect

    a match for his...she was almost a "doppellganger" of Albert in many ways) as each knew the "secret heart" of the other and remorse for the "adopting out" of their baby.

    I think the remorse and guilt were so bad they could no longer see love for each other in each others eyes...it poisoned them both.

    I don't think either of them were ever truly happy from that point on, together or separate...they could not forgive each other for what they had done.

    (no one knows the real story of "why" the baby was "given up"...I think Down's Syndrome was the reason. I also think "liserl" died shortly thereafter, but there is no proof of what happened,

    it's a guess on my part) Einstein told his intimate friends more than once that "People like us should never have children...it's far too often a punishment for them and the children".

    I feel this way concerning myself...I have always had a dread of fathering a child too much like me! What a curse that would be! Another "basket-case?" like me? NEVER would I risk it.

    Now...being an instant Dad? Oh, yes! Because I know what "not" to do! I would cherish every tantrum, every "FU I hate you, why can't I hang-out with my friends! Abby's Mom will pick

    us up at so and so's house", every demand for clothes that "fit-in", every drama that the World revolves around, every demand for a mo-ped, every entreaty to wear eye-liner, every

    threat of "I'm gettin' a tattoo", every skinned knee, every broken heart...I WOULD CHERISH IT with all my heart.

    Because I love them...even when they think I don't, because I'm a "step dad".

    "Punishment?" Oh, yes, I know "how" to punish a kid! (think of John Candy in "Uncle Buck") As in "if you not home by 9 from a party, and you don't call...I'm going to show-up at your

    school wearing huge clip-on earrings wearing a "vote for Gay rights" t-shirt and carrying your LUNCH BOX that you "forgot", the one with "Barbie" on it"!

    Can you think of anything more mortifying to a "tween" or 14yr. old than to have an apparently deranged step-dad show up at your school...the news would exhibit FTL factors as it spread

    around in various classes! ( oh yeah...I know how to punish) I think someone could remember to "call" on a permanent basis.


    P.S. paddoboy scares me a little...a good parent will have good kids. NO "belt". And if a "copper" had decided to "have a bash" with me to teach me a "lesson" by the time I was 12, he'd

    best use his gun. He would NEED it. I would cry and weep and beg him to stop...only to let him think he "has me now"...and then he would make the mistake of letting my fingers get close

    to an eye. You would be surprised at how easily they "come out". The trick is to sweep a finger in a "side" motion, rather than a gouge or a "pluck" (it won't work, the anatomy is against it)

    It is the pressure of the eye against the "ridge" portion of the zygomatic arch that makes it easy.

    Not a nice response, is it? I learned a great deal at a very early age from the Merck manual, my favorite "real book" as a pre-teen. Including how to hurt people in ways that would anyone

    normal shudder...no "martial arts" for me. No, "showing some bully up" would only wet my appetite for more.

    My best defense has always been to hide, or to run or curl-up...NEVER to fight. Because of this "facet" of me, I can never allow myself to be in situations where there might be a fight, or some

    sort of challenge...no bars, no nightclubs, no "dance parties". I never dare to risk a fight with anyone. If I got hurt enough...things would not go well for the opponent or me.

    I don't want hurt anyone ever, I have had enough of hurt! I loath this part of me, and I loath the one caused a "poison fruit" to blossom in me.

    Now you see I'm a little more complex than you supposed...in my own way, I'm a "monster" too! The difference is I know it.

    When I was young, I tried various cutting and burning on myself in a useless attempt to be rid of my "personal demons". It didn't work...but my books always gave me comfort, so I turned

    to them "full-time" to escape being "me". This did and does work, but the price was very high, and I'm still "making payments". I have lately had thoughts that, in fact, there is no

    "real me" that somehow I became an amalgam of "what I know" best, my books! Now that's a peculiar thought!

    (don't get thinking I'm incapable of interaction with others, or that I'm too fearful or timid to experience real life...I laugh at the usual things, I still love rock n roll (diehard Beatles fan) and

    Art (esp. the Wyeth family) and I try hard not take all of my personal crap all that seriously, and for some odd reason, I'm enthralled with theoretical physics! Where did that come from?)


    I bet you hope I'm done "ranting" about my "nasty little bits" of my time as a kid! I think so. There are stills wonders and joys to find, usually when you least expect it!

    I know, it happened to me once when I met/found Her...but that's a different "thread".


    (Thanks for reading!) Cheerio!
     
  22. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    I'm not sure what you mean by "fixing yourself" that is anything more than "making you better."

    All you're saying is that you don't really want anybody to look very deeply inside you, so you'll find a way to derail the procedure, even though you're paying for it.

    I guess you can do whatever you want, but it sounds like a wasted opportunity, and some wasted money.

    All Jung did, basically, is to teach us that the human personality/spirit/whatever you want to call it--is a lot more complicated than Freud's paradigms. And, in the bargain, far more complicated than the pathetic one-dimensional paradigm of "good versus evil" offered by the Abrahamic religions.

    That is their "mindset." I'm not sure how (or why!) you would object to that.

    A Jungian would say that of the 23 archetypes that are hard-wired into our brains by evolution, your Parent and your Warrior are extremely strong, and possibly dominant.

    Duh?

    I would say, in addition, that you grew up in a household so dysfunctional that the adults had lost touch with one of the most important instincts our species has: the urge to protect children--all children! This has been part of our genetic makeup, going back through several ancestral species, and it's even more-or-less the same in our closest relatives: the chimpanzees and gorillas.

    In other words, this has been an instinctive rule among humans and their ancestors for at least seven million years, since Ardipithecus experimented with coming down out of the trees.

    If it was important in the Stone Age, it was even more important as we passed through subsequent cultural Paradigm Shifts. After the Agricultural Revolution, when most men and many women were out tending their crops and flocks, the ones who were left at home to mind the children had to mind everybody's children.

    The adults in your household had lost this instinct, which underlies all of civilization. So it's no surprise that you find it difficult to suppress uncivilized behavior: it's what you were taught!

    I wish someone had turned you on to the works of Carl Jung, or his most successful popularizer, Joseph Campbell, when it was in vogue 25 years ago. People have an immense capacity to heal themselves. Your Healer archetype is also very strong. It's a shame that our civilization can't use it.

    You really don't understand psychotherapy at all!

    And that is what a good therapist would help you do. He doesn't care if you don't "approve" of Jung's "mind set." He probably wouldn't even bother discussing all that stuff with you, unless you showed both an interest and an understanding. His job is not to teach you psychology; it's to help you develop the tools for solving your own problems.

    Sorry, I'm not familiar with the story.

    The "absent-minded professor" is a joke in our culture and of course it's based on a few extremely absent-minded professors. But for the most part, highly intelligent people are no better or worse at parenting than the average adult.

    And of course they tend to have a significant advantage: they're seldom poor. Children in poor households are at a tremendous disadvantage. One of the most striking differences is that by age 3 the child of a prosperous family has heard three times as many words spoken to him. This improves his language skills, his learning skills, and his adaptation to adult society.

    You don't have to have children of your own to practice your parenting skills. I never had any either, yet I often find myself taking projects that revolve around teaching. Adults, of course, but we never grow to old to be taught--especially some of the poorly-socialized geeks in my profession, I.T.

    You don't have to have children to use your fathering skills.

    Humans are one of very few species of mammals in which individuals who have lost the ability to reproduce, and have completed the upbringing of their own young, continue to be strong and healthy. The reason is that our childhoods are so long (a decade and a half, vs. five years for an elephant or two for a whale) that every adult in the community has to pitch in to raise all the children. We don't just need parents, we need grandparents.

    Mrs. Fraggle and I have no children. 25 years ago she found a job at a tutoring academy, and used her parenting skills to help them become better students.

    I'm disappointed that you regarded support for gay rights as something to be ashamed of. I hope that was just your hand writing faster than your thoughts, merely the result of living in a homophobic culture for so many decades.
     
  23. Gerry Nightingale Banned Banned

    Messages:
    278
    In reply to Fraggle Rocker, re: your #39 reply.

    The t-shirt was a poor "spur of the moment" choice! I'm not a homophobe or gaybasher, it was just something I saw on some news report and I'm sorry for using it. I have worked with

    MANY gay people in life (for some odd reason, many gay/lesbian people work in emergency medicine...perhaps a nurturing instinct?) and I never really gave it much thought.


    As far as my assessment of myself is concerned, I don't think of myself much in terms of introspection or a "what is wrong with me" self-pity aspect. In fact, I tend to think about "me" only

    on rare occasions, such as encountering this "broke your child" posting. (I find myself rather boring and tedious, from an "outside" perspective)


    I responded only because the topic is something I'm very familiar with, the abuse of kids.


    As far as therapy goes, I wrote what I believe would make me feel better about myself, and that involves helping kids in any way that will have significant meaning in their lives.

    This would be therapy for me, not going into the past or a possible future of 'all the ghosts are gone, I'm better now" scenario of psychological intervention.

    I wrote the things I wrote because I wanted any readers to know what MAY happen as a result of continuous child abuse...an adult who has suffered a lifetime of dysfunction.


    Sometimes, things that are broken cannot be fixed, and the past is gone...but there is always hope a new thing can be made from the old in the now, or the future.


    (Thanks for reading!)
     

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