You can't "work your way to the top" in capitalism.

The american dream, the pursuit of happiness, you start with nothing, but through hard work, diligence, determination, coming to work on time, wearing a tie, you will become a business/social elite in the capitalist world. This American dream is worshipped out of desperation, not belief. Everyone believes in this because otherwise they could not cope with their lives, could you live knowing you will never make it big, no matter how hard you try?

Unless you already start your career with a huge sum of money, you will get nowhere even with your 10 years of college education. Now even if you do get this money somehow, maybe through winning the lottery, you have to know what to do with it, which is why lottery winners don't usually end up successful. A million dollars will not last you long these days, nowhere close to a life time. You have to play the business game, unfortunatly for you the odds are heavily against you. First of all, your about 200 years late for the game, all the markets have been sucked dry. There is only competition, competition which is 100 times more powerful than you, that will destroy you if you try to compete in it's market. There are giants like these in almost every market. The market's that don't have these semi-monopolies are the markets where every john doe is competing in. It's an all out savage war, you will open a store and some dumbass will use his life savings and open up a store right next to you, your customers are gone by half, you can't pay the rent. In the end you both lose, the competitors destroy one another. Even if you succeed, you don't get much. You get a business which sucks everything out of you. Salary, management, overpriced rent, overpriced taxes, overpriced utility expenses, you are still being exploited by the huge giants of the business world. It's hard to succeed when, from birth to death, for the most part, you are designed to work for the rich and make them richer. It could not work any other way. If every john doe that went to college went on to become a billionaire who would work? What kind of economy would we have? What good would a billion dollars be if everyone has it? The middle class, is the major working class in the country. We need the middle class to go to college, and to work, work to keep the country going, and to of course stop them from becoming rich themselves.

I have really witnessed quite a bit in the hell that is the business world, I have seen too much to explain in 100 pages, so this is just a little overall summary, I am leaving a ton of stuff out so that you won't fall asleep while reading it. But if you find a flaw or have a argument against it, a real life contradictory example, please post it and I will respond.

What about actual careers? Well that's even worse. Living off a salary is pretty much the definition of working class, a proletarian. The people paying your salary want you to work the most for the least amount of money. Taxes on salaries are bad too. The average top salary is I think $300,000 for a surgeon general with tons of experience. From that of course there is 35% federal tax and almost 15% of other taxes, leaving that to be a salary of $150,000 a year. This isn't the money of an elite, this is barely enough money to live your life. A family to support a house to live in, good food, entertainment. $150,000 a year is nothing. How can you become a billionaire when you make $150,000 a year, and more than likely, actually end up more in debt each year than positive.

But what about Bill Gates. Warren Buffet? Yes there will always be people winning the lottery of the business world, but the chances of winning that lottery are much less than the chance of winning your average state lotto. It is pure chance, you can work your ass off but so is everyone else, it doesn't matter how hard you work, unless you start out with tons of money, you can only succeed with EXTREME luck, not work and diligence.

There are thousands of people smarter and more capable and more hard working than Bill Gates, and they don't have 1% of his money and never will.

 

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Your society is collapsing. Get a rifle.

 

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Hey Marx55, welcome to SciForums. I hope you enjoy your time here. You seem to be a person who could contribute a lot here, so I hope you stick around.

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I strongly disagree. If I suddenly had a million dollars right now, I think I would certainly be financially set for a long time if I were frugal with that money. I'm not sure of anything you have to have which costs that kind of money, except maybe if you have your own house.

What?

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I would be living pretty well enough on a yearly income of $25,000. If I had even $50,000, that would be fucking awesome. I don't live an extravagant life, nor do I need to. If you can barely survive on $150,000 a year, either you're trying to live a more extravagant life than you can afford, doing something horribly wrong, or you did something when you were younger that really set you back.

 

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Hey, thanks for the welcome!

As a young single guy, yeah $50,000 wouldn't be bad I guess. But think of the future, kid(s), a car, a wife, a house, you will want to have the best for your family. You will want a good house, and good food, you will want the best. A HDTV and all the latest technology your interested in. This may seem extravagant, but it's just the bare minimum of everything you want within reason. I mean if there something you want within reason and can't afford it, you should try and elevate yourself to be able to afford it, you can't just accept that you will never have that money. The whole point of "working your way up" it to be rich and afford this kind of life.

 

And also another point is to have time and control with your life. If you are working like a dog 24/7 it really doesn't matter how much money you make, you are in the working class, your are proletarian, you are financially dependant, you did not achieve the American dream.

 

im living on $25,000 NZD, which makes $19,875 after tax, only 53% of which i spend. so you could say that im LIVING on just over $10K/year. now if you need $150,000 USD then there is something seriously wrong with your lifestyle.

 

I guess things in New York cost a lot more. I know people in Russia that make $1000 a month and live wonderful lives, because they barely have any bills to pay.

 

Also if you live alone your costs will of course be a lot smaller. The $150,000 figure is supposed to be for a full family with at least 1 child.

 

Getting rich isn't about working hard or luck it’s about money management. And you left out the most important part of climbing the corporate/social ladder… politics. It doesn't matter how smart you are or how hard you work if you don’t learn how to establish influence and authority.

~Raithere

 

I live comfortably on 20,000 euro a year with 2 children.

But then again I live in a social welfare state.

 

Were talking about capitalism!

 

This social welfare state also happens to be a capitalist one.

 

the only problem with capitilism..... is inflation....

inflation... is caused by the govt... for the benefit of land and buisness owners.....

to increase the value of their capital.....


that is that point..... get it.?

those who dont own land.... get screwed.

-MT

 

It seems to me that the real question is about happiness.

Think money will make you happy - be a capitalists.
Think security will make them happy - be a socialist.
Think living in a likeminded group will make you happy - be a communists.
God(s) will make you happy - be a theist.
Meditation will make you happy - try Buddhism.

I personally like to study. I work at university – for now anyway. I also like to travel so maybe I will quit and do that.

The main thing I suppose is to try and enjoy the now,
Michael



Marx55, if you are worried about money invest in property and make managing it your job. You'll be ok, but yes, you will always have to work. Almost everyone does.

 

That's a nice thought, but it isn't true. For example, a capitalist can't be happy in a socialist society. Or a communist in a theocracy? So it's not just one person's ideals, it must encompass everyone's ideals at the same time.

When's the last time you saw any large group of people feeling, thinking the same things, and agreeing on every issue?

Baron Max

 

Um...

My grandfather was a milkman. My grandmother was a waitress and telephone operator.

My uncle dropped out of school at 16 years old, got married, had a kid, and is now a millionaire business owner in Virginia.

You can't get to the "top" in capitalism?

 

yea, its too bad we didn't have free movement of peoples so each could find a society that fits them - as an experiment anyway. I wonder what would happen? Probably the Capitalists would get rich and be flooded by a bunch of poor communists

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You can be a capitalist and a socialist in Finland.

Shame the climate prevents you from being happy.

 

Perhaps it's not the climate? Perhaps it's because they work hard only to have to pay for people who don't work hard? That would make most anyone a little unhappy, don't ya' think?

Baron Max

 

No it doesn't.