Hell; what a hoot Do you truly want to go to heaven? First of all, all trough-out our lives we are told to walk the righteous path so we could, in the end, be deserving of heavenly bliss. Things that deceive and whirl us from that path are considered to be the works of Satan. From a biblical and morally spot on Christian point of view, nearly everything that I do is considered to be sinful (no, I don’t fuck children and murder people- all the time. You get the point I trust). Feel free to audit texts and codes of conduct that are considered to be the proper forms living- after every contradictory statement, you’ll find that there’s not much you can do. So I asked myself- why would I want to spend my eternity surrounded with people I can not relate to, with things and interests that are limited and censored within their contents? Here god offers you a passage to the paradise, the equivalent to a library with all the good shit missing. I mean, wouldn’t it be unaccommodating if the guy who thought that electricity is a work of Satan was right? Or the guy who thinks eye-sight is for non-believers? Truth is (that’s right), these imaginable places offer us a choice, but people do not consider them to be parallel in what they offer, it must be heaven for everyone, only a madman would turn down an offer from God. Good morals do not outwit personal preferences. And the image of hell being what it is, a fiery pit of eternal-goddamned-suffer, is a step most would not take. But just think of the vast amount of time you would spend there. After 10^10 years you would not even notice the little burns. Can’t you just see yourselves banging four women at once whilst having a dildo rammed in your ass as Jim Morrison provides the entertainment (I’m starting to seriously doubt my conviction here)? Or at least reading ‘forbidden’ literature for millennia’s, whatever suits you. Of course no one can know what it would be like, but the choices people make in their heads tell us a lot about the character. Also the imagined joints that differ in every head also tell a lot about your persona (I don’t need an analysis here. A point, that’s all). But seriously, the point is that people are making choices, when they have absolutely NO concrete evidence about the ramifications of the choice at hand. So just go crazy and put that imagination to work. And don’t be afraid to modify your convictions. What is your preference?
Since I believe there is no such place as heaven I cannot go to it. There are some people who do believe in this myth and they think that is where they will end up, that's their belief and they have as much right to believe that as I don't. It's up to each of us to decide what they want to believe in or not and for the rest of us to respect them for their beliefs as long as those beliefs don't infringe on others.
Nasty way of saying 'I have no imagination'. I don't believe in heaven or hell, but I can atleast relate to the beliefs. Taking a politically correct stand often restricts or kills the conversation. And for example, I dont give a shit about Dante's convictions, but the man had a daunting personal hell. So, what would be your hell? That is, if your beliefs haven't smothered your imagination yet.
Imagination is a different sort of concept other than heaven or hell which are myths purpetrated by the "upper eschelon" to keep the common folks in line. Imagination could by a small part of mythology however if you really broden the terminology of imagination.
So, choosing between heaven and hell...is it too outrageous to ask to stay here? Sorry, but my imagination of those two supernatural planes dimmed quite a while ago. Having read so much theological and mystical scripture doesn't make it easier to choose just the hot form of hell, for all I know, it could well be freezing cold. Or perhaps the vikings got it right and all the cringing liars (that normally represent a great deal of christians) have to stand in a river of razors, enduring torture for all eternity. Perhaps there will be no heaven or hell, just the realm of the dead, where all our ghosts gather to lament our mistakes for all eternity... No, I also do not believe in something like that, but not because I lack imagination. I can also imagine some hideous monster that lives in my cellar, thing is, it is still not there and I would still not believe in it. Nope, for me, this life and this earth is all I have got. If I die, I surmise that I will just be dead, my existance would end.
i dont believe in heaven,but if it exists then of course i want to go.an eternity of bliss sounds good to me.
Oh c'mon, this isn't nursery school. What it is a way of saying though, is "I don't believe in such utter nonsense", which doesn't relate to imagination, merely sanity.
NONE of you got the point. I said; "But seriously, the point is that people are making choices, when they have absolutely NO concrete evidence about the ramifications of the choice at hand. So just go crazy and put that imagination to work. And don’t be afraid to modify your convictions. What is your preference?" You lot are not 'playing along'. I know heaven and hell are utter nonsense, but does that keep you from conversating or relating? Alot of people truly believe in this, the same people that take their views from bullshits texts etc.. texts that are not in sync with their own views, even if they might think they are. All i'm asking is; what would be YOUR personal heaven or hell ? I'm not asking you to be against or for something. I'm asking you to imagine the axiom of heaven and hell, because I'm SURE everyone is familiar with the facet of the two in christianity atleast. It is interesting how different people perceive them, or imagine- if they do not believe in them. I'm not talking about any concrete reality here, I'm talking about choices. If your scrawny atheist asses are against something so much that you can't even imagine or have a conversation about it (how the fuck could you read trough any books from Douglas Adams? They are such 'unbelievable' nonsense afterall.), then shut the fuck up. But if you can find it in yourselves to imagine two paradoxical sides of existence (in christian doctrine, bleh..), then contribute. Beliefs are, of course wicked and weird, and some people take it to themselves to be against anything that is related to a belief that they choose to hate. And that automaticly makes you an badass who's against everything even remotely related to it. C'mon, Just drop it. I dont take blible-thumpers seriously, but i can understand the history behind the beliefs they posses (which are somewhat interesting), and that makes the doctrine worthy of dicussion. I'm not talking to religious people here, i'm hoping to gather views from seceders, if you will.. Seems to me this religion forum is a medium for Believers against non-believers to have their little wars, so maybe this thread is fucked for the lot of you. And as i mentioned, Dante's 9 levels of hell are interesting and worthy of studying, now.. If he believes in God, does that make him a fool that no atheist can relate to? You can believe in santa claus for all i fucking care, but if you don't have anything even remotely related to the discussion to say.. then shut the fuck up. - To be edited when i'm sober.
Dreamwalker actually contributed some view(s) of he's personal hell, ignore my former post. second edit: Yes dreamwalker, excellent, thats exactly what i want from this thread- views of hell and heaven even if you do not believe in it. As you pointd out, reality is the thing you believe in, but you atleast could suggest different views of what it could be. I want to see some fucked up heavens and hell's here people.
hey perkele...haha. really am getting into your way here when you came back with 'nasty way of saying "i have no imagination"..i actually applauded...hehehe what you are asckin is relevant for me. recently i posted a new thread tiled 'your idea of heaven?'..or some such title, and asked people to describe as meticulously as possible what their idea of Heaven would be like. do you know, it dropped like a stone with 0 response...!!!!!not a person could find the imagination to IMAGINE. yet all around are literalist chrstians harpin on about heavens and hells etc, and science people and athiests (dame thing)) harpin on about perfect worlds all managed by science and reason yet as said not one of theses factions could find anything to contribute to me thread. i cannot DIg lack of imagination. i have it in bucketloads. since being a kid--i wasn't raised religiously as such, but obviously was aware of churchy propaganda. the hells i imagined included Hieronymous Bosch caharcters.....distorted creatures with faces looking out of bellies, all many of horrible forms comin after me......bing in scence where one moment you think you are makin love with the person of your dreams and suddenly they turn into a maggot-infested old monstrous thingy......shit i could go on. i have had clastrophobia...so that too could be part of hellish experience. i really do feel that therer IS subjective forms of hell, but unlike the patriarchal indoctrination they are transitory. as much a part of reality as heavenly experience it's THIs world that does it for me. checkout 'Dark Eros: The Imagination of Sadism www.crimelibrary.com/classics/marquis/7.htm where it explores dark and light. for when you look at the patriarchy it is VERY evident that the roots of its cpnflictual worldview is its ijmagined conflict between dark and light this wonderful Earth is the eternal PLAy of light and dark. they have NEVE and will never be separated, because they ARe reality. so the idea of an all-the-time Heaven of nothin but light, is better tpo be understood as only existing in the head of one who has abstracted out reality into little boxes for analysis purposes, then begins to actually believe in that operation as being the truth
And then ... and then ... we go in circles ... circles ... circcccccccbloodyccccccccccccccccccccccccles. And then the smartasses bashing others for being "insane" can't define sanity. SouthStar, I think it's time for a crusade.
how can heaven be fucked up if its supposed to be perfect? .. if you want to see hell go look at some junkies on the nearest skid row.. anyways all that spiritual shit is just a fantasy invented by the church to control the sheeple..I prefer reality.
duendy. Yes, this is a playground between light and darkness. And how people perceive these aspects is interesting- for it says a lot about the character. For some these opposite ends are not balanced. For some attraction is biased towards the one or the other. And some choose to ignore or miscomprehend the essence of the two. I only chose the 'marriage of heaven and hell' to present these two opposites for they are prominent- an easy bridge for everyone to stand on and give their insights. And which also is interesting is how individual views change according to influences and how the mind sorts out and keeps these opposites in check. Reading that reply, was the same as having a shotgun blast in the gut. Your hell is being a poor junkie then? And as that is a manifestation which occurs in reality, in the reality you prefer so much, then how can you put aside different views of this display? The same feelings you receive when observing these junkies can be raised with the use of different means for different people. Who the fuck do you think you are? I've said it gazillion times- this is an experiment on views not a questionnaire about beliefs. Now.., for some people those junkies mean absolutely NOTHING, they might not even raise an eyebrow anywhere else, but that does not change the fact that you can think of the faith of those poor, smelly hippie souls and frown. They do not exist everywhere, which does not make them any less real. You can laugh at them as you can laugh at the bible-puppet's. You're asking me that? Did you even read the thread? I tried to present some views in why heaven could be fucked up. Fucked for me, at least. Now, what would it be for you? By the way, is your nick taken from that sci-fi show farscape? If that's the deal, you probably know that it's just shit invented by corporate fucks to capitalize on the feeble minded TV-googlers. Therefore, no- you do NOT prefer reality, you inconclusive fuck. It's all akin to religion. Nearly every setting offers a way to reflect emotions which are already alive, born and raised inside you. And when you choose to ignore these aspects of 'reality', you contradict massive amounts of your existence. Believe in whatever suits you, just keep an objective mind. The beliefs are not real (for me, and apparently for non of you). But they are represented in this existence. Just like every TV-show, just like every video game. And i bet you wouldn't find any hard obstacles to cross when discussing fucking farscape.
I'd like to add....that those here to seem to have had imagination-atrophy, due to swelling too long in rational-heavy sientificy books and ideas, that beNEATH all of that yet still lingers a primordial awe of the UN-known From time immemorial, THE main facilitators to the Realm of Imagination and Inisght have been the diverse reange of hallucinogens. With them you CAN experience heavens and hells. no matter how seemingly rational you may think yourself
