'X' now a gender option in Australian passports

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by KilljoyKlown, Sep 15, 2011.

  1. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    6,493
    Damn! I wasn't even aware that this was enough of a problem to require this kind of action. Does that mean they will have to build separate 'X' public rest rooms or can they just take their pick depending on their outward appearance?

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    Reform aims to prevent questioning when appearance doesn't match gender status
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44532536/ns/travel-news/?GT1=43001

    CANBERRA, Australia — Australian passports will now have three gender options — male, female and indeterminate — under new guidelines to remove discrimination against transgender and intersex people, the government said Thursday.

    Intersex people, who are biologically not entirely male or female, will be able to list their gender on passports as "X."

    Transgender people, whose perception of their own sex is at odds with their biology, will be able to pick whether they are male or female if their choice is supported by a doctor's statement. Transgender people cannot pick "X."

    Previously, gender was a choice of only male or female, and people were not allowed to change their gender on their passport without having had a sex-change operation. The U.S. dropped the surgery prerequisite for transgender people's passports last year.
    Need a passport? No appointment necessary
    Any country that complies with the International Civil Aviation Organization's specifications for machine-readable passports can choose to introduce a gender "X."

    Australian Sen. Louise Pratt, whose partner was born female and is now identified as a man, said the reform was a major improvement for travelers who face questioning and detention at airports because their appearance does not match their gender status.

    "'X' is really quite important because there are people who are indeed genetically ambiguous and were probably arbitrarily assigned as one sex or the other at birth," Pratt said. "It's a really important recognition of people's human rights that if they choose to have their sex as 'indeterminate,' that they can."

    Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd said the new guidelines removed discrimination on the grounds of gender identity and sexual orientation.

    "This amendment makes life easier and significantly reduces the administrative burden for sex and gender diverse people who want a passport that reflects their gender and physical appearance," Rudd said in a statement.

    Attorney-General Robert McClelland said while the change would affect few Australians, it was important because it would allow them to travel free of discrimination.

    Peter Hyndal, who negotiated with the government on the reforms on behalf of the human rights advocacy group A Gender Agenda, said the new guidelines were in line with more flexible approaches to gender issues in passports issued by the United States and Britain.

    "It's amazingly positive," Hyndal said. "It's the biggest single piece of law reform related to transgender and intersex issues at a commonwealth level ever in this country — mind-blowing."

    As many as 4 percent of people are affected by an intersex condition, but most never become aware of their minor chromosome abnormalities.
     
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  3. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    :geek::bawl: Dammit!

    So some doctor STILL gets to decide if you're allowed to be an X!
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2011
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  5. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    I don't believe I've ever seen you display so much emotion in a posting before. I take it this subject has some personal meaning to you?

    Do you think the U.S. should pass a similar law?
     
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  7. Ostracon Banned Banned

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    19
    It's an indication on how well things are progressing until nothing is left of nature except pictures and documentaries, a sexual dweebs and refer to in between masturbation sessions.

    In this regard this forum is contributing nicely to this process.
     
  8. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,493
    Do you have something against talking about a news article whatever the topic might be? One way of finding out about others is to find out what they have to say about a wide variety of topics, so yes this forum does this nicely.
     
  9. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    4,416
    *Scratches head...thinking perself has often been overemotional in posting...*

    Um, thought I'd bloviated about this before...

    (From:http://gender.wikia.com/wiki/Androgyne)
    So, building a gender role...when your gender doesn't officially exist? Anybody's idea of fun?

    Like to see them pass a better law... not going to hold my breath they will do anything at all.
    I'm almost 100% certain there will be some testosterone in my future. How does one deal with not quite looking female OR male? But the idea makes me almost absurdly happy.
    I'm pretty ambiguous now.
    This wekend my grocery sacker called me sir, I made eye contact to make sure she was actually talking to me... then she thought I was offended and was embarrassed...

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    I was happy... I don't feel like a woman or a man. Since most people don't think there ought to be a third option, having people look at me and go "uhhh..." means that they are, well, recognizing me as...me.

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  10. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    25,817
    I'm only really adamant about my gender when I don't want to do physical labor. Its gonna piss off visceral instinct, but i have no problem being a helpless female when it comes to shoveling snow or taking out the garbage.

    Even if I am obviously female, could I choose the X?
     
  11. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    4,416
    No, a doctor has to decide you have an intersex condition.
    IOW, someone else is still defining you.

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    PCOS is a common intersex condition, BTW.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycystic_ovary_syndrome

    Docs don't generally call it an intersex condition...but it's caused by the ovaries producing testosterone.

    Um...yeah. That's intersex.

    But...why would you want to redefine your gender legally? It might or might not get you into or out of anything. Probably cost you a lot of hiring opportunities, realistically.
    I feel like female doesn't tell the entire story in my case.
    As far as that goes...most transmen do not have bottom surgery-the genital surgery options are wretched for them.
    Yet a lot of them can still be legally male, depending on where they live.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2011
  12. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    1,466
    You were born that way. Get over it.
     
  13. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    4,416
    When my butt gets hairier, you can kiss it.
     
  14. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    1,466
    Rub in the testo cream, that'll bring it up a long-haired peach

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    Last edited: Sep 16, 2011
  15. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    1,466
    I wasn't referring to anyone specifically. I didn't read the whole thread at first and was making a general comment. It was a general remark directed at those who would medal with what nature gave them. Why allow expectation to mould ones life (own or others)?
     
  16. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    4,416
    Gel was recommended, too easy to overshoot with the shots.
    Probably do it next spring, if all else goes well.

    What about clothing to hide parts we'd rather people not see and to make us look better than we really are?

    What about someone with crooked teeth or cavities, a cleft palate, or a tail?

    Or (closer to home) born with a foreskin??? or naturally prone to not being very built, but going to a gym and lifting, working out?

    When do we not cloak or alter our bodies to conform to the way we think they ought to look? Or someone else does?

    And:
    Huh?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2011
  17. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    23,049
    chimpkin thats probably because it also changes your birth certificate but is it really that hard to get a GP to write up a letter for you? If your GP knows you it should surly be easy
     
  18. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    1,466
    Love your teeth. If physical defect can cause physical illness (cleft palate) then it's different. Gender reassignment is a head choice. Only done because it is available.

    If I had a tail I'd swing it proud.

    Expectation of what is the norm drives those outside the norm to meddle with themselves (and become discontent with their lot). I personally don't give a shit what people do. I just think I would choose to be myself, I hope . . .
     
  19. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    7,913
    Yeah, WTF?

    Saying people are only transgender if a doctor SAYS they are is kind of like saying that someone who is showing nystagmus and is constantly falling into things doesn't have vertigo until a doctor SAYS they do. Fail.
     
  20. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    6,493
    You could be dying but unless a doctor tells the insurance company what's wrong with you they won't pay a dime. It's not what you are that's the issue, it's having the right credentials that say what you are for any number of legal reasons. So the real issue is how do you get those credentials? You go see a doctor.
     
  21. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    4,416
    I no more have a regular GP than I have a pet tiger, I'm uninsured.

    And, no, it is fiendishly complicated here...every state has its' own regulations on how to change genders or even if you can,
    and whether you can legally change your gender depends on what state you were born in.
    I could check my birth state, and maybe become a guy...but I'm not a guy.
    I have female genitalia, but I'm not a woman.

    You are either male or female in US law.
    There is no third gender as a legal entity. Even though people are born intersex, and people like me come to identify as androgyne (both), neutrois (neither), and bigendered. (alternating)

    So my gender(which is not my sex) does not officially exist. Does not socially exist either.

    I've jokingly called my gender the Quest For Pronoun...
     
  22. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

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    3,788
    The doctor will be in a difficult position until the legal parameters of intersex gender are clearly defined by the courts, in my understanding. :bugeye:

    Given the variation between individuals (knew someone born a hermaphrodite, who was given surgery at birth to conform to female, yet was ever of a male persuasion by own identity) even with legal guidelines, this is going to make for some interesting circumstances.
     
  23. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,049
    Thats the problem, your judging Australian legislation by US standeds. In Australia its not an imposition to get a letter from a GP because we have Medicare.
     

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