WWII - Effects on Asia of the war in Europe

Discussion in 'History' started by DaveinChina, Feb 22, 2006.

  1. DaveinChina Registered Member

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    2
    Imagine that the war in Europe had gone differently. Germany had successfully invaded Britain and gone on to victory in the Soviet Union. What effects would this have had on the Asian conflict. Specifically what effects would China have suffered. I think the fate of China was closely tied to both the Japanese and American/British fates. What possible outcomes can you see happening to China and the Japanese if Germany controlled the whole of Europe/Soviet Union.
    I would be grateful for responses to this as I teach History at a university in China (despite stopping the study of it at school aged 16!). And I would like to help my students understand the global nature of WWII.
     
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  3. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    hitlers agenda was to increase the numbers of his so called "master race"

    a good place to start with such a topic would be to read "mein kampf" by adolf
    hitler

    edit
    the entire book may be found here:
    http://www.crusader.net/texts/mk/
     
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  5. QuarkMoon I Registered Senior Member

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    China certainly would have been next, expecially if Nazi Germany had control over the Soviet Union, although that kind of an outcome is a ridiculous notion. The Soviets would have thrown every able Russian body at the Nazi's before they would be conquered.
     
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  7. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    thats true, and they did
     
  8. DaveinChina Registered Member

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    So you think there never was a chance the SOviet Union would be defeated? Many of the things I have read suggest that with better tactics and a few lucky breaks the outcome on the Eastern Front would have gone Germany's way.
    Even if there was never a chance of conquering the Soviet Union I guess an uneasy stalemate could have occured. If this was the case, with Britain conquered, could you venture a opinion on what the effects on Asia might have been.
    I know this is fairly hypothetical but I really want to get across to my students the global nature of WWII!
     
  9. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    better tactics?
    germany, at the time, was considered a world class military thought by many to be unbeatable

    britain was another matter
    if it wasn't for the americans help she surely would have fell
     
  10. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    Countries change as they get bigger. They also behave differently during peacetime and war. Something like this is hard to speculate on. I've been told that the reason Germany was so obsessive about killing off the Jews during WWII is that they realized that during the peace that would prevail when the war was over, even they would not be able to get away with it any longer.

    I wonder how the Nazis would have treated the Indians. After all, they are by definition the original "Aryans."
     
  11. candy Registered Senior Member

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    734
    Even if Briton and the USSR had fallen to the Nazis Japan would have still attacked US interests in Manilla and at Pearl Harbor. With England out of the war Australian and Canadian forces would still have joined with the US to stop the Japanese.
     
  12. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    And, with full German assistance, Dai-Nihon Teikoku would've steamrolled and steakgrilled Australia and Canada, and possibly the US, with heavy reinforcements from colonial reserves.
    IF they did win a total victory, eventually, Japan and Germany would've gone to war, and Japan would win. No matter the cost, Japan would kill Nazi Germany in a war, considering their mentality.
     
  13. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    regarding all of this
    hitler made 4 big mistakes

    first is that he found himself in a 2 front war, namely with russia in the east and britain in the west

    second, he underestimated the power of the naval arm of his military machine and therefor never developed it

    third is he didn't realize the advantages of radar, one of the reasons that britain was able to hold him off

    and fourth he underestimated americas ability to produce, the second reason britain didn't fall and ultimatly led to the nazis defeat
     
  14. candy Registered Senior Member

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    I doubt that even with full Nazi partipation Australia would have been steamrolled.
    Japan never really had total control of China even though the USSR did not enter the war with Japan until August of 45. US support for China had to come in over "the hump".
     
  15. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    Five actually. He didn't seize upon jet technology for mass-use until late in the war, '44 and '45. If they had perfected the Me-262 earlier, say '42 or '43, the war probably would have been thiers.
     
  16. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    oh hit !
    good call hapsburg
     
  17. Poincare's Stepchild Inside a Klein bottle. Registered Senior Member

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    Hitler made a huge mistake during the Battle of Britain when he switched from targeting the RAF to bombing civilian centers. While it was hard on British civilians, the RAF got a badly needed break and were able to regroup. Hitler never really had a chance of invasion after that.

    If Hitler had stayed after the RAF, an invasion of England would still have been difficult. Hitler was short on naval power, and the Royal Navy would have sacrificed itself going after the German transports. The Germans might have succeeded, but the cost would have been enormous.

    Hitler NEVER came close to defeating Russia. His first two summer campaigns were rather successful, but there was still a LOT of Russia he didn't touch. And the first two Russian winter campaign really did a number on the Germans. After '42, the Germans did very little except retreat.

    Oh...and Germany trying to fight in the Far East...They would have had one BIG problem...supply. At that time, the only way to get supplies there would have been the Trans Siberia Railroad...essentially several tousands of miles of one line, very easily disrupted by partisans.

    As for Hitler's biggest mistake of the war, my vote is that he failed to fully mobilize the German economy for war until late '43.
     
  18. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    i doubt it
    hitler bombed the airfields, and they were hit
    but the spitefires were safe
    britain took the precaution of hiding it's spitefires in the countryside
    also she moved her machine shops underground

    i doubt if the royal navy would have sacrificed itself
    britain knew full well the folly of grouping it's ships in the channel
    besides, most of the british fleet was strung out all over the globe protecting britains vital supply lines

    i don't know if hitler failed to mobilize the economy or if he was hoping that the conqured countries would produce for him
     
  19. Poincare's Stepchild Inside a Klein bottle. Registered Senior Member

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    I am not sure what you are doubting...

    At the time Hitler switched the Luftwaffe's priorities, the RAF was in bad shape, even with everything they were doing to minimize the damage. But even had the RAF been nullified, the Germans would have faced an uphill struggle to invade and conquer England.

    Agreed that the Royal Navy knew the dangers of operating in the Channel. However, facing a full scale German invasion, you can bet your sweet boopie they would have done everything possible, up to suicide runs, to stop the German invasion.

    As to Hitler and the economy, it was mostly Hitler's overconfidence that the war would be over soon. He didn't put Germany on a full war footing until after things started going very badly in Russia. By that time, it was too late. Faced with the full production of Russia and England, and most of the production of America, he was doomed.
     
  20. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    17,455
    are you sure about this?
    hitler switched tactics because the raf was still in the air
    hitler hit the fields but he could not knock the raf out of the air

    there were a number of things at work here
    first was radar
    the british were alerted to an airstrike as soon as the luftwaffe left the normandy coast
    second was the agility of the spitefire itself
    third was the men that were lost to germany were gone for good
    not so with britain, 50% or more of her pilots that were shot down returned to active duty

    the only reason hitler resorted to night raids was to avoid those deadly spitefires

    the raf was going up against odds 7, 9, 10 to 1 and still they kept flying
    i believe the best the raf did was to lose 60 pilots to the germans 500
    those were enormous losses for the germans and the major reason hitler switched to night raids
     
  21. Poincare's Stepchild Inside a Klein bottle. Registered Senior Member

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    The reason that Hitler switched tactics was not due to the Spitfire. A German bomber accidentally let it bombs drop on London. In retaliation, the British bombed Berlin at night. This act caused Hitler to change to civilian target in England, to retaliate for the retaliation.

    While the Spitfire was slightly more maneuverable than the Bf 109, the 109 could out climb and out dive it. All-in-all, it was a close match.

    And if you look at the number of kills, it was actually the Hurricane that shot down the most planes for Britain during the battle. Spitfires were available in much fewer numbers than the older Hurricane.

    You are right about the pilot situation, except that Germany had many more trained pilots at the start of the Battle of Britain.
     
  22. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    17,455
    i am not sure this is entirely accurate i'll have to check on it

    but you are correct that hitler retaliated for britains night raid
    and he planned it for the lowest ebb tide of the thames
     
  23. Poincare's Stepchild Inside a Klein bottle. Registered Senior Member

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    Check out the movie "The Battle of Britain". It is pretty accurate historically, and has some great air combat scenes...for pre-CGA that is.
     

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