WTC7 - controlled demolition?

Discussion in 'Conspiracies' started by leopold, Dec 2, 2013.

  1. Grumpy Curmudgeon of Lucidity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,876
    roscoe

    Repetition of a lie does not make it any more true, even with all caps and many exclamation points. To say that there was no plane(a 757 full of fuel and people to be exact)at the Pentagon is a lie. One that the coroner and his helpers would beat the crap out of you for if they heard you say it. Whether from ignorance or belief, it's still an easily exposed lie and completely disrespectful to those thousands who lost their lives on that day to an attack by terrorists.

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    Yes, Kerosene burns orange, as it did at the Pentagon. Aluminum burns bright silver, as does magnesium, the flash may have been the nose hitting the reinforced, bomb proof, concrete wall before the wings(and most of the fuel was in those wings). And Cordite has not been used in guns or explosives for half a century(it's corrosive and not stable over long periods), the last cartridges loaded with "gun cotton" were the 460 Weatherby Nitro Express. Semtex and Plastic explosives do not smell like Cordite or dynamite(both nitroglycerin compounds). What they probably smelled was aluminum oxide smoke familiar to anyone who has used a grinder. And no sign of explosives were found on site, just impact and fire damage. So, whatever impression was left in the witnesses' minds about what they saw, the physical evidence proves their statements to be in error(as it often does, humans are terrible at accurate observation and must be trained extensively to be trustworthy witnesses, all loud noises become explosions, they see tigers in the bushes that only rarely are actually there. Photos, videos and physical evidence have no such issues). There was a shockwave, but the witnesses overstated it's effects, most hit the ground due to physiological reactions(startle, drop, hide), especially if they have had military training). THERE WAS NO MAJOR SECONDARY SHRAPNEL. Generators and equipment really close to the impact point were not moved appreciably and received only superficial dings unless impacted directly by major pieces of the wings or engines(the entire fuselage went into the hole, the wings and engines disintegrated on impact with the wall). There can be no argument about what hit the Pentagon, it was a 757. It is delusional to insist otherwise.

    Grumpy

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  3. Grumpy Curmudgeon of Lucidity Valued Senior Member

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    roscoe

    Lies. Delusional is being circumspect in describing the level of your logic.

    No, my next question was "Can mankind really survive if it's members have so little connection with reality or reason?". I HAVE NO QUESTION about where those things came from, I KNOW they came from that aircraft. And we have already wasted enough time, effort and money just because you are mentally incapable of accepting the facts.

    Fact one: 19 Saudi Citizens hijacked four planes and flew them into the Twin Towers, the Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania.
    Fact two: physics caused the damage we witnessed.
    Fact three: the only people responsible are those that committed the attack.
    The rest is detail, grossly misinterpreted.

    Grumpy

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  5. roscoe Banned Banned

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    Thanks for the OPINION.

    But American Airlines Flight 77 never took off that day. You could always test me to see if this is delusional or not.

    And how could you have an explosion like that and have no windows broken immediately above the entrance point?

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    Basically

    The explosion picture is fake and should I be given the chance I'll PROVE it to you.

    But I rather expect you'll run away.
     
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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    There are hundreds of pictures of the extensive damage caused to the Pentagon, yet you choose to show just the one that best supports your conspiracy theory?

    What caused all that damage and debris, by the way? Not a plane, but a ... what?
     
  8. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    5,051
    So...after arguing all this time that there were no plane parts, now you acknowledge that there were?

    Going from 'there is no evidence' to 'the evidence was fabricated' (paraphrase) is at least a step in the right direction! I guess the idiocy of posting an orange photo and claiming it is silver will do that!

    So: what proof do you have that the evidence was fabricated? Or do you just start with the assumption it was and build your fantasy of 'what really happened' from scratch.

    Just for fun, now that you've argued that a plane should throw material out of the pentagon, now you should try arguing that an exploding missile should only push it in...

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  9. roscoe Banned Banned

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    Because American Airlines Flight 77 never took off on September 11th 2001 and no flight plan was ever filed.

    A FACT.
     
  10. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    When you yelled 'A FACT' did you actually mean mean to say 'NOT A FACT'?
     
  11. roscoe Banned Banned

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    I can prove it. But the problem is you BCTs will refuse to read it because you might see something you can't handle.
     
  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
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    roscoe:

    Where did the people who were supposedly on the non-existent Flight 77 go to, if they weren't in a plane crash?

    Oh, and what's a BCT? Is that an insult?
     
  13. roscoe Banned Banned

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    203
    Dunno Need a new inquiry as we haven't had a proper one yet.

    Hear the words of the Chairman of the 911 Committee

    Have you got a problem with that?


    BOXCUTTER CONSPIRACY THEORIST

    It's like "Truther" only your nickname.

    I actually like "Truther" as it's straight out of Orwell.
     
  14. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    31,621
    roscoe:

    So a whole fight full of people disappear without trace and you have no suggestion as to what might have happened to them?

    I haven't got time to watch your video. Please give me a brief summary if it's important.

    I take it you don't believe that a bunch of guys could hijack a plane using boxcutters back in 2001. Is that right?

    How old are you?
     
  15. roscoe Banned Banned

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    203
    Nope

    How would I be expected to know?

    All I know for certain is that American Airlines Flight 77 never took off that day.

    So the wreckage whatever it is did NOT come from AA77.
     
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    31,621
    roscoe,

    I think the problem is that you're fixating on a small twig and ignoring the rest of the tree and the forest of other trees around it.

    But I'll wait to see your proof. It sounds so exciting.
     
  17. Grumpy Curmudgeon of Lucidity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,876
    roscoe

    That is a lie.

    No, you cannot. Another lie.

    You've already been put to the test, you failed miserably. You are trying to deny FACTS, not the interpretation of the facts. You don't get to make up your own facts, you must explain the facts as they are. It is a fact that that aircraft hit the Pentagon. If it didn't take off it would have been impossible for it to be found inside of the Pentagon(as it was found)so saying it did not take off is just another of your many LIES.

    That's the point, it wasn't any kind of explosion, it was an impact and conflagration, the only place really affected was the point of impact and the inside of that part of the Pentagon(which later collapsed due to the fires). Equipment outside the building very near the point of impact received little or no damage(unlikely if it had been an explosion of any kind). And the part of the Pentagon that was hit had just had bomb proof windows installed as part of a hardening project(it's documented). There was no explosion to blow them out.

    Given the lies you've already told us, I doubt you could get anyone to believe it was raining outside. You are not a credible source for anything. But for the entertainment value, Please Proceed.

    Grumpy

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  18. roscoe Banned Banned

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    Already posted it on Was 911 an Inside Job message #618
     
  19. roscoe Banned Banned

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    This is quite long.

    A plane that lands at an airport half a mile from the Pentagon less than two minutes AFTER the the Pentagon is supposedly struck.

    Not only that but a string of incredible coincidences that accompany this plane.

    Firstly

    A search for all American Airlines scheduled flights departing from Washington Dulles International Airport on September 11th, 2001 showed no reference to Flight number 0077, the plane reportedly hijacked during flight to Los Angeles.
    Flight number 0077 is a daily flight, however, it wasn't scheduled for flight on September 11th, 2001. I found that odd. No schedule for a flight which was reported to have taken place.
    Maybe an administration error or oversight, or maybe I wasn't using the database properly..

    Here is the full list of American Airlines scheduled flights departing from Washington Dulles International Airport on September 11th, 2001;

    Airport: Washington, DC - Washington Dulles International (IAD)
    Carrier Code Date

    (MM/DD/YYYY) Flight Number Tail Number Destination Airport Actual Departure Time
    AA 09/11/2001 0075 UNKNOWN
    AA 09/11/2001 0135 UNKNOWN
    AA 09/11/2001 0143 UNKNOWN
    AA 09/11/2001 0371 UNKNOWN
    AA 09/11/2001 0397 UNKNOWN
    AA 09/11/2001 0510 UNKNOWN
    AA 09/11/2001 0573 N871AA DFW 7:49
    AA 09/11/2001 0599 N3BFAA SUN 6:57
    AA 09/11/2001 0771 N3CAAA MIA 7:34
    AA 09/11/2001 0975 N2ANAA ORD 6:26
    AA 09/11/2001 1217 UNKNOWN ORD 0:00
    AA 09/11/2001 1229 UNKNOWN ORD 0:00
    AA 09/11/2001 1247 UNKNOWN ORD 0:00
    AA 09/11/2001 1309 UNKNOWN DFW 0:00
    AA 09/11/2001 1319 UNKNOWN DFW 0:00
    AA 09/11/2001 1361 N493AA DFW 6:17
    AA 09/11/2001 1787 UNKNOWN ORD 0:00

    Yes the very people whose job it is to report every flight landing and take off failed to log the departure of Flight 77 from Dulles on September 11th 2001. Here's their listings for September 10th 2001.

    Airport: Washington, DC - Washington Dulles International (IAD)
    Carrier Code Date

    (MM/DD/YYYY) Flight Number Tail Number Destination Airport Actual Departure Time
    AA 09/10/2001 0075 N302AA LAX 8:00
    AA 09/10/2001 0077 N632AA LAX 8:10AA 09/10/2001 0135 N5ESAA LAX 11:15
    AA 09/10/2001 0143 N304AA LAX 15:00
    AA 09/10/2001 0371 N866AA DFW 16:10
    AA 09/10/2001 0397 N219AA DFW 12:55
    AA 09/10/2001 0510 UNKNOWN DFW 17:51
    AA 09/10/2001 0573 N719AA DFW 9:23
    AA 09/10/2001 0599 N849AA DFW 7:56
    AA 09/10/2001 0771 N3BWAA SJU 7:00
    AA 09/10/2001 0975 N3BGAA MIA 7:34
    AA 09/10/2001 1217 N2BGAA ORD 6:25
    AA 09/10/2001 1223 N2CGAA ORD 9:45
    AA 09/10/2001 1229 N2DFAA ORD 13:25
    AA 09/10/2001 1247 N2AGAA ORD 20:21
    AA 09/10/2001 1309 N871AA DFW 14:20
    AA 09/10/2001 1319 N497AA DFW 19:32
    AA 09/10/2001 1361 N226AA DFW 6:15
    AA 09/10/2001 1787 N2BLAA ORD 16:55

    If the quick knee jerk excuse is that everything was confused on that day well look at this.

    Airport: Boston, MA - Logan International (BOS)
    Carrier Code Date (MM/DD/YYYY) Flight Number Tail Number Destination Airport Actual Departure Time
    UA 09/11/2001 0051 UNKNOW LAX 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0159 UNKNOW SFO 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0161 UNKNOW SFO 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0163 N526UA SFO 6:57
    UA 09/11/2001 0167 UNKNOW SFO 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0169 UNKNOW LAX 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0171 UNKNOW SFO 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0173 UNKNOW SFO 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0175 N612UA LAX 7:58 UA 09/11/2001 0177 UNKNOW LAX 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0199 UNKNOW IAD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0211 N463UA IAD 7:39
    UA 09/11/2001 0223 UNKNOW IAD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0317 UNKNOW IAD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0420 UNKNOW ORD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0503 N314UA ORD 5:52
    UA 09/11/2001 0505 N431UA DEN 7:52
    UA 09/11/2001 0507 N564UA ORD 7:28
    UA 09/11/2001 0509 UNKNOW ORD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0515 UNKNOW ORD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0519 UNKNOW ORD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0523 UNKNOW ORD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0531 UNKNOW ORD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0575 UNKNOW ORD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0583 N433UA DEN 5:57
    UA 09/11/2001 0595 UNKNOW ORD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0701 UNKNOW DEN 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0883 UNKNOW ORD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0895 N461UA ORD 8:24
    UA 09/11/2001 0987 UNKNOW JFK 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 0999 UNKNOW SFO 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 1015 UNKNOW DEN 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 1051 UNKNOW IAD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 1119 UNKNOW DEN 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 1153 UNKNOW IAD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 1411 UNKNOW IAD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 1439 N356UA ORD 6:26
    UA 09/11/2001 1607 UNKNOW DEN 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 1685 UNKNOW IAD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 1690 UNKNOW ORD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 1789 UNKNOW ORD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 1877 N556UA IAD 6:39
    UA 09/11/2001 1879 UNKNOW IAD 0:00
    UA 09/11/2001 1947 N435UA IAD 0:00

    No problem with Flight 175. the plane that allegedly hit the south tower.

    But there's more. There's this:

    A chat between air traffic controller on the land line...recorded.

    Quote:
    9:11:23 — Indianapolis Control, Henderson Sector Radar Associate: know just where he left from or uh.

    9:11:25 — Indianapolis Control, Dacos Radar Associate: there's no flight plan in the machine right now and - .

    9:11:28 — Indianapolis Control, Henderson Sector Radar Associate: yeah I just looked at that, too.


    An hour into the supposed flight Indianapolis still had no flight plan for American Airlines Flight 77. A chat with an airline pilot recalls how he regularly gets stuck at the gate because operations hasn't filed the flight plan to all the Control centres enroute. The fact that Indianapolis hadn't got AA77 flight plan is significant because he wouldn't have taken off and as we have already seen, he didn't.

    We're not finished yet.

    Supplementary to this here's the statistics for Ronald Reagan Airport.

    All planes into Ronald Reagan Airport, half mile from the Pentagon, diverted except the last one. Now isn't that strange boys and girls?

    The plane that reportedly struck the Pentagon was N644AA The mystery plane Tail number N644AW Only the last letter of the tail number is different.

    And look at the landing time.

    At the very least this plane was landing whilst events were taking place. Whilst Hani Hanjour was making this weird maneuver over Washington a legitimate flight (with a very similar tail number) was landing at the same time half a mile away. How did they know that this plane wasn't heading for the White House?


    Quote
    The aircraft crashed into the western side of the Pentagon at 09:37 EDT
    - wikipedia. (Actually it was probably nearer to 09:38 )

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    See Hanjour's supposed path and position of Ronald Reagan airport. Continue the arrow forward in the turn and you can land at Ronald Reagan Airport, precisely as N644AW did two minutes after Hanjour's plane supposedly struck.

    Quote:
    "One more note, as we had many odd occurrences with lights flickering, movie screens up and down, Annette (Air traffic controller on duty) mentioned that (N)644AW is known to most f/as as the "ghost ship" in America West system."

    Air traffic controller at Washington sept 11th 2001.

    So the ATC witness confirms it was there.

    So was it this plane that the eyewitnesses saw? Did this plane overfly the Pentagon and land at Ronald Reagan Airport?

    It gets better, read on.

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    American Airlines Flight 77:

    Tail#: N644AA
    Owner: Wilmington Trust Co.
    Disappearing transponder signal location: Ohio, 8:56 amImpact time: *9:38 am*, Pentagon


    America West Flight 0098:

    Tail#: N644AW
    Owner: Wilmington Trust Co.
    Departure: Ohio, 8:40 (Wheels off time) Arrival: *9:39 am*

    America West filed for bankruptcy in 1991, but was "rescued".

    Yes the America West flight 98 that landed at Ronald Reagan Airport less than two minutes after all mayhem was breaking out at the Pentagon took off from Columbia Ohio Airport which is just north of where American Airlines Flight 77's transponder was last recorded.


    Quote
    Timeline:

    CMH = Columbus Airport. It's located (precisely) at the north of the point where the transponder of AA77 is switched off and it disappears":

    "At roughly 8:56 the plane appears to stop in south Ohio:"

    "At 9:07 it suddenly reappears further along its flight path then then stops again, apparently moving west":

    "At 9:25 the plane reappears again this time on the border between Indiana and Illinois":

    "At *9:43* (after the official crash into the Pentagon) Flight 77 is flying over south Illinois and is nowhere near the Pentagon.) The last few blips after that seem to be fairly random, but ultimately the plane seems to get as far as Kansas.

    This plane is showing Flight 77 transponder ID

    It seems America West Flight 98 is posing (on Secondary RADAR) as American Airlines Flight 77 over Washington. This plane overflies the Pentagon and lands at Ronald Reagan Airport.

    In 5 years of investigation of flight 98 (passengers etc) no information has been found. It's a government plane.

    The Evacuation of Reagan Airport at *9:30 am*

    It seems that people were thrown out of Reagan Airport a few minutes before the Pentagon crash, at about 9:30, but it doesn't look like a controlled evacuation. Take a look at these statements from people on Reagan airport:


    Lindsey Kriete, 24, of Wellesley was scheduled to leave Reagan National on a 10 a.m. flight to Boston. About 9:30 a.m., all hell broke loose, Kriete said, as airport personnel began running through the terminal, telling passengers to leave quickly. By the time Kriete had rounded up her belongings and tried to calm people who were crying, all the taxis were gone and the subway had shut down.

    Another...

    The phone rang. It was my sister, on her cell phone from Reagan National Airport in D.C. She was within minutes of boarding a plane to Atlanta when U.S. airspace was shut downand she was talking very fast:
    "They're telling us to forget our bags and get out of the terminal!" she said. And then, as she got outside, she began to lose her composure. "I hear something that sounds like explosions . . . I'm afraid!"

    It later became clear that the sounds she was hearing were actually coming from the Pentagon, which is near Reagan National.




    So can anyone here tell me why Ronald Reagan Airport was evacuated before the Pentagon attack but neither the White House, The Senate nor the Pentagon was evacuated? AT ALL!!!!!

    Might they have seen something they shouldn't have?

    Oh and by the way.

    There is no record of American Airlines ever previously using N644AA for the IAD Dulles - LAX Los Angeles route.

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    Please Note that the statement on this photograph is from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and NOT from a Conspiracy Theorist

    Yes it's official American Airlines Flight 77 never took off that day.

    It seems we just had aircraft posing as it as part of the exercises being conducted that day.

    Northern Vigilance

    Vigilant Warrior

    Vigilant Guardian

    Global Guardian

    PS

    In truth there was only one exercise that day but many different stations involved in the exercise had different names for this one exercise. The object was to foster confusion.
     
  20. Grumpy Curmudgeon of Lucidity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,876
    roscoe

    Yes, Truthers have exactly the same relationship with truth as the Ministry of Truth had(IE none). Very appropriate, glad to see you are not deluded enough to think you're not lying. Now that you've admitted what you are, what further purpose do you have with your lies?

    Grumpy

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  21. roscoe Banned Banned

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    Any comments on what I just posted?

    message #116

    Or are you simply spamming this thread?
     
  22. Grumpy Curmudgeon of Lucidity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,876
    roscoe

    So a poorly filled out report(there are lots of "00:00"s there)is your proof that overrules the actual physical evidence of the aircraft inside and on the ground at the Pentagon?

    Talk about magical thinking. You arguments are worthless, deceptive and delusional, not even a little bit entertaining. The arguments you make are juvenile and stupid(actually, idiotic, but I'm trying to be civil to someone who is obviously struggling with the real world), an insult to the intelligence and an indication of the failure of the educational system to teach even the basics of critical thinking skills..

    Flight Profile. Flight 77 provided nonstop service between Washington Dulles
    International Airport and Los Angeles International Airport. It was scheduled to depart at
    8:10 A.M.
    The aircraft was a Boeing 757, tail number N644AA.231
    Captain Charles F. Burlingame and First Officer David Charlebois piloted the plane. The
    flight attendants on Flight 77 were
    * Michele Heidenberger, assigned to the rear left jump seat in the very back of the
    plane at takeoff;
    * Jennifer G. Lewis, assigned to the right middle jump seat between first class and
    coach (and therefore between the hijackers in 5E and 5F and those in 12A and
    12B);
    * Kenneth E. Lewis, assigned to the right rear jump seat; and
    * Renee May, assigned to the forward left jump seat next to the entry area and
    between the first row of first class and the cockpit.232
    The aircraft had a capacity of 176 passengers, 22 in first class and 154 in coach. On
    September 11, 2001, the flight carried 58 passengers (including 5 hijackers) with 2 pilots
    and 4 flight attendants for a total of 64 people on board. Fifteen of the 22 first-class seats
    were occupied, 3 by hijackers. Forty-three of the 154 economy seats aboard were
    occupied, 2 by hijackers.
    The 58 passengers represented a load factor of 33.0 percent of the plane's passenger
    capacity of 176. This figure is almost identical to the 32.8 percent average load factor for
    Flight 77 for Tuesdays in the three-month period prior to September 11. During that time,
    Tuesdays were the least traveled day for Flight 77.
    The Commission has found no ticketing, passenger occupancy, or financial evidence to
    indicate that the hijackers purchased additional seats (beyond the ones they actually used)
    in order to limit the number of passengers they would need to control during the
    operation.
    All the hijackers were assigned seats as they checked in and boarded the flight.
    According to American's records, "no documentation for a jump seat passenger was filed
    for Flight 77." 23 5 There is no evidence to suggest that any hijacker was admitted into the
    cockpit and permitted to sit in a jump seat prior to the takeover.
    As on Flight 11, under American Airline policy in effect on 9/11, every crew member,
    including each of the flight attendants, had a key to the cockpit.
    Flight 77 was loaded with 49,900 pounds of fuel. The amount of fuel was below the
    average (59,400 pounds) for the flight during 2001.
    The Flight. Flight 77 pushed back from Dulles Gate D-26 at 8:09 A.M.
    8:20 A.M. Flight 77 took off from Dulles.

    FAA report, "Chronology of the September 11, 2001 Attacks and Subsequent Events Through October
    24, 2001."

    You can read the whole report(not one page of bogus information like you posted)here...

    http://www.webcitation.org/5T7H27edX

    This is just too easy, we need better, smarter Troothers to get our teeth into, not this marshmellow fluff.

    Grumpy

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  23. roscoe Banned Banned

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    Thanks for repeating the 911 Commission report, I've read it.

    It's a lie.

    http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc02.pdf

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    The paragraph at the top right was written by the agency that logs all take offs and landings.

    There is no record of American Airlines ever previously using N644AA for the IAD Dulles - LAX Los Angeles route.

    Where's flight Plan? Indianapolis had no Flight Plan. Commercial aircraft are not cleared for take off unless all centers en-route have a flight plan.
     

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