If there was no one to tell you about God, would you believe? If there was no heaven, and no afterlife, would you believe? If there were no books, and no texts proclaiming the existance of God, would you believe? If there were no promises, and no miracles to be had, would you believe? I suppose that what I am asking is if there is anyone who truly believes that we are born with the inherent sense and belief in God? Is there some sort of genetic predisposition for people to believe or not believe? If so, why do so many people believe in different things? Why is there not just one God for all people? I know that there are published papers on a "God gene" or simply a gene that has a prediliction for making someone more or less spiritual in nature, but it has not been proven to lean one way or another when it comes to religion. So how do you explain that? Religion seems to throw out logic and reason, science and facts in favour of promises and stories, myths and mysteries. Is it important for us to have religion to feel comforted? Or is it simply something that was created to lift the spirits and keep people from killing each other?
Until people find real answers to what is going on around them, it does stand to some reason that they would concoct an answer that seemed most suitable at the time. So, yes.. they probably would. Why do you think Indian gods look like elephants, South American gods look like snakes, and most {chief} gods are all men that consider women to be below us guys?
But are we inherently born with the knowledge of God? Or is it all subject to the environment and circumstances of our society? I mean if there has always been religion, it seems to point to the idea that we are born either with a need to believe, or an inane sense of a God or Gods.
Well, we've had some form of belief system, and religion from a very early age in our history. Which would suggest that we have a need to believe in some higher being, so we can turn to them in harsh times, and so we can blame them when things go wrong etc.
If there were none of these things, then one, obviously, could not believe in them as one wouldn't even know of them. That would be like saying you were born with the innate ability to speak English. You were born with an innate ability for language, but this ability is non-specific of language. In a similar manner, we can say w are born with an innate, inherent ability to sense the numenous, which may then be verbalized as "God", "spirits", "All-Oneness", etc. depending on the culture. There certainly are speculations about this, even by established scientists. I think though that to claim that the ability to believe (in the religious sense) is genetic, is seeing it backwards, akin to saying one has a genetic predisposition for English. I think those differences are culture-specific. A mixture of many elements play a role in whether a person becomes religious (in the sense of established religions) or not. Family of origin, experiences with various religions and their members, resources available, psychological stability ... For example, it can happen easily enough that in a very devout family where the parents are distant to the children, children do not remain religious when they grow up, or have a very negative attitude towards religion. This, however, doesn't necessarily have something to do with the religion they practiced, but more with the fact that the parents were distant (for whatever reason). For example, many adult Christians can tell you that they feel God doesn't love them, and upon careful inspection, it turns out that their image of God was shaped by a father who was distant, critical. Yet not all Christian men are like that, so we can't conclude that it was their religion that made them distant to their children. And let's not forget that a person may not be a member of an established religion, but displays traits of a religious person, only towards a different content. For example worshipping material wealth, or art. All these people "believe", and I think they are equally irrational in this -- they just have different contents of their "religion". Such may be said about any religion, be it Christianity, Islam, or that which one treats as a religion, say material wealth or art.
Born with? Are you trying to imply there is a god? It's funny you should mention it, but the other day my 6 year old daughter walked in and said: "I can see why you don't believe in god, there's so many of them". Let it be known that I have never actually discussed my lack of belief, or the issues with my daughter. So anyway, my wife then asked my daughter: "do you believe in god?", to which my daughter responded; "No, I haven't seen any". That is fresh from the mind of a 6 year old. It seems pertinent to state that in no way are we born with beliefs in gods, but that later on we come up with such ideas when we need answers to things we can't answer. Most certainly. My daughter, (in the same discussion as mentioned above), said: "school says god, tv says god, everyone says god". You cannot now escape it.. ever. Every song has "heaven", or "soul", or some other religious word in it, every film has mention of religion or gods, the religious paranormal, or religious based phrases in it. Every school, (to differing degrees), brings it up, and people can not seemingly stop but use religious connotations when talking on a regular basis, "jesus h christ, who put that there?" etc. It's quite sad really. I was born, and have always been, an atheist. Either I am the sole exception to the rule, or people are not born with any need to believe - but develop one due to several different reasons, (indoctrination/personal tragedy etc). Alongside religion, there has always been belief in many a strange thing, (from ogres to aliens). Perhaps you would extend that to humans having an inane sense of non-existant, peculiar things - or in short, simply having a vivid imagination? Kids think there's a boogeyman in the closet, that a fairy flies along and pays for their teeth. Later on we have father christmas, and then we have aliens, vampires, gods, werewolves, loch ness monsters, abominable snowmen, area 51 and the man behind the grassy knoll. We even have people that believe man never landed on the moon. People are odd little creatures, but other than a seriously vivid imagination, it doesn't really point to much.
Even if we consider the case of an individual raised in an environment with no religion at all, I think it is natural that he/she would come to questions such as "Why does the universe exist?" It is not a far reach from there to suppose that it could exist because someone or something created it - this pushes the mystery back simply one level, of course, but it is still a natural hypothesis to make. Someone (of an atheist persuasion) once pointed out that the universe is the most amazing, beautiful, sublime invention that nobody invented. It is hard for me to take the universe for granted, to not be surprised by the fact that it exists at all. This is something beyond science, so it is natural to want to associate it with an explanation that is also beyond science.
When I was a younger lad, I got into several discussions along this path with several friends. They would say that something probably created the universe, to which I would always ask why, just because a child needs a parent, the same is true of the universe. I still await a decent answer. Of course, even if someone could give a decent answer, (and that left us with some form of entity), couldn't that very same decent answer be applied to that entity, (meaning it too needed a parent)? If not, then wouldn't it stand to reason that we could just skip out the whole 'entity' part, and just have the universe? Perhaps it's just me.. I dunno.
Mom... who created god ? When i was a 4 years old kid, i used to say that all the time and my parents get mad at me, so they punished me because it's considered as a sin. I get some of those whips from my father's belt.. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Snakelord, To me, it points to the need to be comforted. The need to feel like someone is paying attention and looking out for us. I also believe it's just imagination, and I believe that the less children are loved in favour of a God or Gods, the more their need to believe becomes. For if a parent believes and loves God, in a child's eyes they also want that kind of love. It's a sad cycle I think that places a greater importance on God, than on your own kind. God and religion have become a replacement for who and what we should be caring about. I have also always been an atheist for reasons I can't really explain, and don't need to. I am asking the question though because I know so many people around me that need to believe. They need that comfort zone to function. They need a promise of heaven to do good deeds for others, and they need the idea of a God who loves them to feel a purpose in life. I am often asked by my religious friends, what my purpose in life is if not for God. I keep telling them that it is other people I exist for. To make the lives of others easier and more plesant. All other needs are selfish needs. Not that being selfish is wrong, it just seems to detract from society as a whole. Myth, My parents also would get angry at me, and lock me in a closet when I refused to go to church. When I told them I didn't believe in God, they would wash my mouth out with soap or I would have to get a switch and learn what hell would be like for me. I find it awful that parents still exhibit these kinds of punishments for having children that think outside the box. People need to stop using fear as a reason to believe as well. Most of the people I knew grew up well because of their fear of God... makes it very hard to be a good person once you realize he doesn't exist. I've never needed an answer as to why/how the universe came into existance. In the constant state of chaos, it is not a surprise to me that things change. I just don't need a reason for the change. Overall, I do feel like if we loved each other a little more, showed each other more kindness, and took care of each other as a society, we would no longer need religion to comfort us. I am not angry at people for believing in God, because I can understand their need. I don't understand all the anger, wrath, envy, greed and self-righteousness that comes with that religion almost assuredly.
Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I really regret being sent to Jewish dayschool. They did teach me Hebrew... which is a nice. But on the other, they filled my mind with religious psychobable. Stuff I had tried REAL HARD to believe in. It became so bad during grade 3 that I would frequently come home with with a headache or tense neck. Most parents were religiously abused themselves. At least it is possible for us put an end to the cycle Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Certainly. god is like the ultimate shrink. Times do change. Back in the day god was a rule setter, a reason for plagues and disaster, and an answer to the things mankind just couldn't understand. Now things are slightly different. god no longer goes round causing plagues or tornados - we have the answer to those. He no longer hands out rules and regulations - human law does that. Nope, god now dwells in buildings with leaking roofs listening to the out of tune songs of elderly women. He has been relegated to the level of comfort blanket. It is a sorry state of affairs when people love the clouds more than their own children - and yet it is a common occurence. Jan or Jenyar, (I always confuse the two), indeed told me they loved god above their own children on this very forum. To say I was truly sickened is an understatement. It might be worth conducting a poll among the religious to see how many would actually vote for loving god above and beyond that of their own children. Your story is one such example of why I literally detest most religious people.
I know Chinese like to refer themselves as the decendent of the dragon. But dragon kings are not the top gods among Chinese gods. Interesting, isn't it?
So? It is still fantastic and wonderful. Feeling a sense of awe at it all *is* a type of spiritual experience. It is certainly what Einstein felt.
I agree with you 100% that positing God as an explanation for the universe does not answer the ultimate ontological questions. I never said it did. I merely said it is a natural hypothesis to make. Certainly it might be wrong. In fact I expect it is, but I cannot say for sure.
Certainly a great sentiment, but even if we all behaved humanely some of us would still want religion, because we still hgave to face the issue of death. Death is the main reason why I think about God, why I like the idea of God, even though I think he is probably not real. I do not want to live a mere 72 years. I have too much to do, too much to see, too much to learn, to many people I love that I want to spend more time with. This is the root cause of the problem.
I was *literally* almost killed when I was a child because of religion, so I know how you feel. I'll tell you the story if you are interested.
