Would an intelligently financed UBI be dangerous for the environment?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Dennis Tate, Mar 21, 2021.

?

Is the world economy being deliberately dampened, perhaps to save the environment?

  1. No

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  2. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    100.0%
  3. This is a dangerous idea to even be discussing!!!!

    0 vote(s)
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  1. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,466
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz(attack->defense---zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz-----boring)
    that being "said"

    It seems most likely that a UBI that would exclusively give money to the poor would boost the gdp if the country.
    If you give money to the financially well off it will have little effect on their spending habits.
    However if you give money to the poor, they will spend it and then the economy benefits from the multiplier effect. At a minimum, one could expect that for every dollar given to the poor, the gdp would grow by $1.20, and, most likely by over $1.50
    so, It seems most likely that:
    A well regulated UBI is actually a good investment on a national scale.


    ........................
    Long ago, Henry Ford raised his employees wages significantly---which had 2 effects,
    1) a more stable workforce
    and
    2) employees who could afford to buy his products
     
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  3. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    Actually...... giving an unconditional income supplement for life.....
    to all Canadians that is created through our own Bank of Canada could be the only way
    to get Canadians as well as our three levels of government out of debt.

    At this time the only Canadian dollars that are created that do not produce
    interest owing.... are the printed Canadian notes. The entire money supply here in
    Canada is produced in a manner that creates interest owing..... which causes all types of debt
    to grow and grow and grow.

    One of the reasons for this is that the Banking Class have for centuries felt that they need
    to keep ordinary people running like gerbils on a treadmill.... or we would become lazy and not work.

    There is also the motivator of protecting the environment from our bad habits... .which frankly is
    a somewhat valid concern.

    In my opinion nobody else has ever addressed this question quite like retired Canadian Minister of Defence Mr. Paul Hellyer.

    In my opinion Mr. Paul Hellyer is courageous and amazingly well informed on several critical topics that most of us have been deceived on.

    End tax and financial slavery now with Paul Hellyer (!ThatChannel.com 2013-03m-12)
    23,886 views
     
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  5. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    .....
    (BUT in order to get it to the poor I have to promote giving it to all citizens and legal residents as advocated by economist Milton Friedman..... that way NO BUREAUCRACY to watch over it is needed)!
     
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  7. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    1,154

    I hope that you rather enjoy the video that I just posted by retired Canadian Minister of Defence Mr. Paul Hellyer?

    He can explain all of these things far better than I possibly could.
     
  8. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    8,849
    Why are you quoting a response that I made to Rainbow?
     
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  9. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    8,849
    You logic is that you want to get Canada out of debt by deflating the currency. Regarding the statement about people becoming lazy and not working...you are doing menial jobs so that you can take the Friday off and follow the Orthodox Jews in your prayer schedule.

    If everyone did something similar, wouldn't that add to the problem rather than help the problem?
     
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  10. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    True..... but I do about a thousand hours of volunteerism annually as a writer and I attempt to the best of my ability to address huge problems that most experts are afraid to address with honesty due to the fact that they would be putting their careers on the line!
     
  11. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    Because I assume that is part of the etiquette of discussion forums?

    Am I incorrect?
     
  12. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    8,849
    There's no problem with you doing so, it just makes no sense (to me). Rainbow, for some reason, said that I BS and say that I'm an expert in international financial regulations. I've never said anything about financial regulations even though I do have some experience in that realm.

    Your reply seems to have nothing to do with that.
     
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  13. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    I am a janitor at a school......
    Mr. Paul Hellyer on the other hand is the former Canadian Minister of Defence......
    I really assumed that you as well as anybody who reads through this discussion might be very interested in the way that Mr. Paul Hellyer
    explains all of this.

    I consider that this topic has life vs death implications for millions... if not for tens of millions of people......

    I base that on a statement made the Canadian economist John Hotson......

    http://www.mailstar.net/money.html
     
  14. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,849
    In other words, regardless of the subject matter of a post, you are going to have the same reply linking whatever you want to talk about.
     
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  15. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    1,154
    I am not really trying to get people to become clones to my way of thinking......
    I am trying to get people to ask better and better and better questions due to their having
    confronted not merely two sides to a topic.. but three or four or five or more valid ways to look at the subject........

    The Paul Hellyer video can be linked to just about any topic that can be linked to MONEY!
     
  16. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,466
    You missed the point
    giving the money to me, or someone like me would be a net loss to the giver.
    No extra money will effect my buying habits---so I will not recirculate it into the broader economy.
    Giving the money to people who do not need it would dilute the multiplier effect and lessen the value of the investment.
    That being "said"

    How would you define "the poor"
    or just set an arbitrary number ---say 2000(working hrs. per year) x $15(proposed minimum wage in us) =$30,000
    and everyone earning less gets the difference up to $30,000
    (the danger lies in corporations underpaying their workers, knowing that the givemint will pick up the slack)

    Something akin to that would be the best scenario for optimizing the investment
    The more wisely a government invests, the less they have to suck the marrow out of the bones of the citizens,
     
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  17. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154

    No... you may be missing the larger point......
    Economist Milton Friedman and I don't care about "net loss to the giver".... we care about AVOIDING bureaucracy!!!!!!!

    If you end up saving the extra five hundred...... (actually five hundred minus the income tax that you would pay on an extra five hundred which might be less than three hundred net).... that is perfectly fine by me...... but your wife or your kids or your grandchildren might just view the extra five hundred per month very differently than you might?????
     
  18. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,466
    long ago
    i took to replacing the c in bureaucracy with a z

    (so, I get your ans Friedman's point)
     
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  19. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    On that point....... I totally agree with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  20. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Would it be fair to suggest that the issue of a UBI would not have come about as it has if it were not for various degrees of automation replacing employment opportunities for those who have no better qualification for more sophisticated work?
    Ie. Road workers, railway workers, bank tellers, street cleaners, garbage collectors, Ice sellers, septic tank cleaners and other jobs with low qualifications needed.

    Is it beholden on society to share the rewards of improved automation that has led to the annihilation of a class of employment?
    Even Henry Ford's development of mass production techniques removed much of what was then the unskilled or semi skilled laborer class..
    Would making use of a UBI aid in compensating the lower classes of potential employees for the advances they allowed, that lowered their chances of finding gainful employment?
     
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  21. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    1,154

    True...... the increasing degree of automation has forced many of the wealthiest of the wealthy........
    to embrace this basic idea.
     
  22. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    23,328
    What say the UBI was treated like shares (dividends) in the nations economic prosperity?
     
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  23. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    I do believe that this is a good way of explaining a major part of the logic behind Canada's Social Credit Political movement of the last century.
     
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