Would an intelligently financed UBI be dangerous for the environment?

I would like to think that a well financed Universal Basic Minimum Income would be a lot LESS dangerous for the world environment than the existing system...... but I have to admit that there is some logic in neo-Malthusian thought on this question.

I admit it.... my own tendency to consume would logically tend to an increase in environmental destruction if all of a sudden I could spent ten times as much as I did last year.

Three economists here in Canada have presented a powerful case that the Canadian and world economy is being deliberately dampened........... there is a real possibility that one of the reasons for this may be valid......to protect the environment.

 

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Here in Canada we had a much better central banking policy that we used from 1938 to 1974 and I really like how Ms. Betty Krawczyk explained how it worked.

https://bettysearlyedition.blogspot.com/2015/07/how-pierre-trudeau-turned-us-into-debt.html

 

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For example..... here in Canada with a national debt approaching one trillion......
in theory we could create a Basic Minimum Income Supplement of five hundred dollars per Canadian per month for life ......
through a loan from the Bank of Canada......
and forgive that loan once it is actually paid out to Canadians.......

This would cost about eighteen billion Canadian dollars per month but.... as it is paid to Canadians that loan through the Bank of Canada could be forgiven....
which could theoretically result in eighteen billion dollars per month going first toward our deficit... and then soon toward our national debt.

Why don't we do this you may ask?????


By Harold Chorney, John Hotson and Mario Seccareccia made some rather powerful statements related to this topic:

 

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The logic for why that eighteen billion dollars soon going toward the deficit and then the national debt is that as it turned over roughly three times in the Canadian economy it would be taxed back into the treasury!

As the deficit would be dealt with and once Canada would begin to operate in the BLACK as opposed to operating in the RED as we do now........
it would be possible to greatly decrease the higher income tax levels giving Canadians more of an incentive to work and produce.

There is an aspect of Canada's geography that causes us to lean in the direction of several of the alternative theories on stabilization of the climate that Canadians might well be willing to invest heavily in for some obvious reasons if all of a sudden they had more disposable income to work with and invest for their retirement?


Anchorage Alaska has the second most extreme tides in the world after the Bay of Fundy. The funnelling effect that the land form of the Bay of Fundy and Anchorage Alaska has on tidal water should cause them to experience the effect of rising ocean levels first.


Residents of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick are facing a rather simple mathematical problem that forces us to take a rather dim view of a Carbon Tax.

.... "If average ocean levels rose by eight to ten cms (3 or 4 inches) could high tide...
... rise by one meter in the Isthmus of Chignecto in Nova Scotia, Canada?
This question is logical because the geography of Canada's Bay of Fundy produces the world's highest tides. In my part of Nova Scotia in Guysborough County there is very little funnelling of tidal waters......... so high tide is only about one to one point five meters above low tide.
In the eastern area of the Bay of Fundy high tide levels are up by ten to fifteen meters."


Every cubic meter of ocean water that is desalinated and added to the water table of Israel, California, Algeria, Qatar, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Nevada, South Africa, India or any other nation with lots of desert is really good news for the owners of the real estate along the Bay of Fundy and of Anchorage Alaska that have the second most extreme tides in the world for very similar reasons.

High tide waters are funnelled by the Bay of Fundy into a more and more narrow area and on top of that......... the Bay of Fundy is over one hundred and seventy miles long so high tide water cannot fully drain back into the ocean before the next high tide waters pile on top of them.

My point here is that there are ways that a UBI to all Canadians has the potential to be GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT?

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You do like to roam all over the place in terms of subject matter don't you?
If the average height of the ocean raises by 3 to 4 inches then the high tides in the Bay of Fundy will be as they are now plus 3 to 4 inches.

Giving everyone in Canada another $500/month isn't going to do anything to or for ocean levels or desalinization plants (which aren't going to have any appreciable effects either).

Going into (more) debt to give people more money (UBI) isn't going to more than pay for itself due to the velocity of money moving though the economy.

 

If my proposal for an extra five hundred Canadian per month for all Canadians is accepted....
(and I am working on putting the idea out there for somebody to coopt and run with).....
one of the trends that I suspect will kick into motion will be a general movement away from
urban life...... toward rural Canada.

If a UBI were to be adopted in the USA that was financed by a policy similar to the quite brilliant Lincoln Greenback Monetary policy experiment......
this would likely result in.......

.....

Canadians and Americans having more disposable income would lead to a change in investment patterns and retirement portfolios and ordinary people would tend to pick companies to invest in that would do better than what political leaders tend to promote.

 

An extra $500/month isn't going to result in any large scale change in anyone's life.

If everyone moves to the country and lives an agrarian (subsistence) lifestyle there will be no one left working to pay for the UBI.

There is no free money machine.

 

The degree to which work can now be done from home is altering the formula......
A family of four would receive an extra 2k per month... which would more than pay for the mortgage for a nice home in urban Canada or America.

 

Do you think the Canadian economy can support UBI?

If most people can work from home why would the UBI even be needed? Everyone should be moving to the cheaper countryside already under your scenario.

 

I would like to think that although my primary campaign writing from my 2006 campaign for M. L. A. as an independent was flawed.....
and I would write it up differently if I enter the next provincial election......
still..... some people found it rather encouraging and hoped that I would continue to be involved.

Actually... it was in 1974 when we gave up on the rather brilliant central banking policies that were in effect from 1938 to 1974.

Some people on this forum think that I am some sort of made up identity but..... take a look at 2006 here.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictou_Centre

 

You only got 20 votes?

 

Yes..... I ran as an Independent......
I was looking the various political parties over and attempting to figure out if I could fit in with one of them but when anybody runs as an Independent they know that they cannot win....... but my primary goal was to mentor Canadians on a topic that I had began to research back in 1994.

My day job is that of a janitor so I also don't have the kind of bucks available needed to actually win a campaign.

 

Why aren't you working in banking or finance or something that fits with your interests more closely?

 

Back during the 1970's I began to attempt to take the Jewish Sabbath from Friday at sunset to Saturday at sunset rather seriously and I found that the easiest way for me to be free to observe the weekly Jewish Sabbath and the annual Holy Days of Judaism was to work at menial jobs like forestry or cleaning as I now do.

 

Do you think the economy, overall, would be very productive if everyone did that (UBI concept)?

 

I believe that an extra eighteen billion Canadian dollars into our economy in the form of an Unconditional Income Supplement to all Canadians would significantly shift our economy.

A huge percentage of us would tend to pay down our high interest debts which would save us a lot of money annually because we Canadians are mortgaged and maxed out on credit card debt.

A huge percentage of us would invest in a second home or cottage within fifty miles of our primary home.

A huge percentage of us Canadians would invest in better and better equipment for whatever our primary or secondary incomes were.

A huge percentage of us Canadians would renovate our primary homes and make necessary improvements and updates to our properties.

So many millions of us Canadians would end up working with updated and improved equipment that productivity would be significantly increased and...... the productivity of Canadians and Americans is what actually backs up our Canadian and USA national currency units.

 

The effect would be to deflate the value of exiting money. If people are productive they don't need the UBI.

 

A basic minimum income = freedom of choice
poor people ain't got that
they have to take the first job that comes along
which often means that they ain't doing what they love doing
which means that they ain't operating at peek performance
what a waste
meanwhile
Iran
In 2011, Iran rolled out a nationwide unconditional cash transfer program to compensate for the phase-out of subsidies on bread, water, electricity, heating, and fuel. The government gave out sizable monthly payments to each family: 29 percent of the median household income on average.

The program was later dialed back as some Iranians came to believe it was disincentivizing people to work. Yet economists found that “the program did not affect labor supply in any appreciable way.” The program is still running, and it’s the only such program in the world to run nationwide.

yet one more reason that the capitalist pigs that run this polity would want to attack Iran

 

GDP (PPP) for the US vs Iran
$59k vs $20k

 

YES
deliberately shut down to prevent the spread of SAR'S CoV-2
to prevent total global economic collapse resulting in global megga destruction of modern society & civilization as we know it.

what some people forgot is that the super rich(including middle[doctors & other skilled career professionals like engineers & carpenters & mechanics] class) like to travel the world and stay in fancy hotels and be served breakfast in bed etc...

it is hard to go on holiday with the zombie apocalypse beating down the front door of your home while your at home or away, and/or being overrun in your hotel room or while your sitting on the beach with your mai tai

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https://www.delish.com/cooking/recipe-ideas/a30195779/mai-tai-recipe/

your comment "ten times more"

need to have some real world money #'s put to it so it makes logical financial & economical sense

conspiracy theory's
politics
economics(global financial equity values & valuation relationships including currency, pricing & inflation)
macro-economics
sociology
social economics

you are painting with a very broad brush using specific colours

i personally support a UBI(universal basic income) as a basic minimum income

it is a fairly complex discussion but it can be very simple
you appear to be mixing things together which detracts from being able to discuss anything accurately in specifics

additionally
your "10 times more income" comment
saying a UBI would give you 10 times your current income seems a little out of sync with basic UBI rates in any country.

a UBI takes in to consideration the cost of living & local economic price systems, taxation & retirement needs.

Russian UBI = ?$
...
New York UBI = ?$
...
Canadian UBI = ?$
...
Singapore UBI = ?$
...
China UBI = ?$
...
Australia UBI = ?$
(using Canadian dollars)
put a money value per week UBI before tax beside each one
then we can move forward with your discussion on UBI