Woman says 'Pool's closed' notice is racist

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by angrybellsprout, Jul 15, 2008.

  1. lepustimidus Banned Banned


    Did you just reference Encyclopedia Dramatica as though it is a reliable source?! While you're at it, why don't you post something from 'The Onion'?

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  3. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

    What I find did about the debate is that few people seem to take what I see as the sensible position.

    It would never have occurred to me that the sign was racist. It *did* occur to me that it was posted by someone who should never be put in change of "employees," as that picture was either a play on a racial caricature, and so of questionable taste in a public context or it was posted by someone who has no understanding of the sensitivity of race issues in America and/or no understanding of traditional American racial stereotypes.

    Now that someone has complained about it, I have to admit that it's possible that the sign was posted by someone mildly annoyed with the black kids using the pool (perhaps because they were black, perhaps because they were loud or otherwise troublesome in the opinion of the poster, who knows).

    It also doesn't matter to me whether the sign indicated that the pool was closed "to blacks". If the intent was to close the pool to everyone, under the belief that it's better to close the pool down than to let blacks use it. That was the whole idea underlying closing public schools in the south, some of which remained closed for a whole school-year. Does anyone seriously doubt that the reasons for the school closings, which affected all races, was racism?

    In the end a sign was posted containing an image of a black man that was of questionable propriety. The assumption that the person who posted it had a racist motive is plausible, but not proven. The assumption that there was no racist motive is plausible, but unproven. Different people are going to have different opinions as to which is the more likely of the two, and the victims of racial animus are more likely to see invidious discrimination than those who are in the majority and who rarely if ever experience it.

    I suspect it's good for there to be some hunt for the poster, as that shows that the community takes racism seriously and condemns it. If they find te poster, he or she should be given a fair opportunity to explain their motives, not that they will be believed by everyone (as any explanation will be self-serving). Probably the best thing for everyone if to make the search, send the message that racism is bad and even the potential of it (again, some might say "probability" of it and I see no objective way to gainsay that belief) will be treated seriously, and then to never actually find the culprit. That way that person (if he or she was being racist) will be suitably chastised through knowing that community condemned the act, but if he or she had a more innocent motive, the poster's status as a good community member won't hinge on the seeming sincerity of a self-serving explanation.

    I certainly don't think that racism needs to be overt or blatant before a private group like a home owners' association or a co-op board treats it seriously. This isn't a criminal trial, it's just bringing social pressure to bear.
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  5. Warlexco Registered Member

    Six pages of replies and an article in a local newspaper.. just because some woman in Texas got her panties in a wad over a seemingly racist prank. Wow. That entire article was pointless; it was just a PRANK! An INSULT!

    Just imagine if every time some fat guy was mocked, we heard about it in the paper. Every time a cripple had to open a door for himself, someone staged a protest. Every time a white rapper was accused of being "too black", someone was shot. By looking at some of the replies in this thread, I don't doubt for a minute that it could happen!

    Am I being insensitive? Probably. I've become desensitized by all the mind-numbingly PC stuff I've seen shat out by the media & politicians.
    *resists rant*

    Simply put.. this is NOT newsworthy. This is NOT an epidemic. This is NOT something I am in any way concerned about. Someone once called me a fag; they didn't put me in the papers. :bugeye: I feel cheated.
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    So, just how good are the morbidly obese at picking cotton as slave labor? I don't recall fat kids being sequestered in their own, underfunded schools, or forced to drink from separate water fountains. How many "Jim Pork" laws were passed after the United States almost broke apart in war when skinny people decided that Abraham Lincoln was too dangerous to their fatist intentions?

    Are you being insensitive? Perhaps you're merely being superficial. After all, the argument works if we erase history.

    Given your heritage of being oppressed as a homosexual, that still doesn't mean much. Black people are discriminated against every day, and not every incident makes the news.

    • • •​

    An archive of the insanely melodramatic and cosmically stupid is just a bit different from The Onion. I would think even you should be capable of realizing this. For instance, the mentally retarded as soldiers? Humorously-intended fiction. Melodramatic interpretations of history? I would definitely think you're well-versed in that sort of thing.

    At any rate, I can only apologize for victimizing you with such an unfair burden of critical thinking.
  8. lepustimidus Banned Banned

    To be honest Tiassa, I never had a very high opinion of you. However, I must say that your attempt to defend Encyclopaedia Dramatica as a reliable source goes beyond laughable, into the region of disbelief.

    You are aware that Dramatica sacrifices accuracy for humour, right? You are aware that the articles often just make the most nonsenscial shit up to elicit a laugh, right? That it's more often than note a collection of parodies and satrical articles?


    So you referenced a source which is "not required to be referenced or have any basis in fact". *chortle*

    I also refer you dismissively to the main page, which admits:

    So yeah, Tiassa, colour me a little skeptical of a source whose author admits that it is a parody of an encyclopaedia, and that the information within is not often explained correctly. Which is well known for being a source of satire, hyperbole and parody. Which does not require referencing, or to have any basis in fact.

    But hey, if the information contained within the article you cited is indeed correct, you should have no trouble whatsoever posting another article (from an independent source) with corroborates the information contained in the Dramatica article.

    If you can't do this Tiassa, and if you have any journalistic integrity you will retract that article and admit to being in error.
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2008
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Yawn: You're complaining about melodrama and perverse humor?

    So in other words, when someone takes a germ of fact, twists it, inflates it, and makes a melodramatic and overstated example out of something, you object?

    Good to know.

    After all, we just had a big argument in EM&J that is no more or less reliable than the Encyclopedia Dramatica. It had something to do with internet "copypasta" attributed to feminists but generally circulated by misogynists.

    And now here you are, complaining. Oh heavens, oh me oh my!

    In the meantime, I look forward to your analysis of the E/D article I provided and where it is incorrect. You know, one of those things about "journalistic integrity"? For instance, I find it hilarious that you're referring me to a furry culture wiki while complaining about a source, but it is what it is. Unlike you, I am able to look at a source for what it is.

    Interesting, indeed.

    At any rate, I look forward to your analysis.
  10. lepustimidus Banned Banned

    I object to you using it as a reliable source, because as even the site owner observes, it's not.

    So you're not going to address what I quoted furry culture wiki? Why not? Because you don't consider the source to be reliable?

    The rest of your post is just the usual bullshit, true to your persona. Again, I demand you provide an independent source to validate Dramatica, or retract it.
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    If I were the guardian of the only two black kids using the pool, I would have taken that sign as racist in origin, as soon as I saw it.

    If the person who made the sign did not intend that, they aren't too familiar or aren't too bright.
  12. lepustimidus Banned Banned

    LOL, it gets better and better:

    So Tiassa posts a source where the administrator warns the viewer to expect articles with blatant biased lies, that have had 'boring truths' deleted from them.
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    (Insert title here)

    Ah, Lepus, you're overlooking one important thing.

    Real and genuine information sources generally have better things to do. So when you want a glimpse into the vapid, you go to the vapid. How is it that you do not understand this? If I want Disney, why would I go to a Mondrian exhibition? If I want heavy metal, why would I listen to Glass' string quartets? If I want information about complete idiocy and moronic self-addiction, why would I bother looking in the New York Times, Washington Post, or Encyclopædia Britannica?

    There's not much to address. As I noted before, it is what it is. In the meantime, you have yet to follow through on your analysis of the E/D.

    Which part of the citation do you object to? The accusations of racism against the game's moderators? The fact of protesters? The idea of a spam email parody of an Alice Cooper song?

    Is it too much to ask that you ever have a substantive argument about, oh, say, the issue at hand?

    Let's see, here. Racism at Habbo? Well, we could always check Habbo.com, but I can easily imagine you complaining about the reliability of discussion group postings. "Civil rights" raids? Well, we all know that Wikipedia is often unreliable. The Alice Cooper parody? Well, that's the problem with email copypasta, isn't it?

    One of the problems the issue faces is that it's an incredibly petty and ridiculous "meme". Not many "reliable" sources are going to waste their time on it. So when we need to take the pulse of the uncommonly stupid, why not turn to the uncommonly stupid?

    If, on the other hand, you are such a literalist as your complaint depicts you, I can understand how reading between lines and comprehending the nature of stories are such challenges to you. Of course, that only reminds that your opinion, while valid inasmuch as it is yours, hasn't much to do with anything substantial.
  14. FirstNation Registered Member

    Ok Ok Ok I skim read the first post and then read some posts.
    I need some clarrification.

    1. Was the pool actually open and people inside swimming yet the sign on the door?

    If that's not the case then how is it racist.
  15. grazzhoppa yawwn Valued Senior Member

    This is a case of an internet-only joke among teenagers and immature adults being blown out of proportion by it's indoctrination into the real world.

    The "Pool's Closed" sign is a an internet meme that was made up by a message board that is associated with racism, pedophilia, and general antics of computer savy teenagers. The site is named 4chan. It spread through other like-minded sites on the internet.

    This sign has racist overtones. Particularly this one: http://habbowned.ytmnd.com/ Where two white quite "ordinary" teenagers are depicted beaten by black men with 1970's afros and suits.

    As with most internet memes, Pool's Closed evolved. From the insecurity of mainly white anonymous teenagers on the internet viewing black men as violent, scary, authority figures into a racist in-joke between themselves. The joke's subtle racist tones were exaggerated as it spread through the internet. It tapped into the insecurity of today's American white teens in regard to black people: from a simple black man with arms folded to depictions of black men beating up white teenagers.

    For video and auditory sources of this see:
    http://ytmnd.com/search?q=pool's closed&x=0&y=0

    For textual evidence see:
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pools closed

    Go through the search results and read up.
  16. angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

    So basically you have no clue as to what you're talking about?

    The joke started up because a little black child was banned from a public pool due to him having HIV, thus the origional phrase being "pools closed, due to aids".

    http://bannedforaids.ytmnd.com/ does point to the origional joke
  17. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member


    Actually, the article seems to imply she was white.
    So much for pre-judgements and all that, huh?
  18. angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

    Either way she wasn't black.
  19. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    If this was a case of the Habbo meme escaping the internet, my assumption would be that it was supposed to be an indictment of the people who live in the community as racist.
    Whoever posted it would not have been aiming it the black children, rather at the people who mumbled behind their backs or decided to not swim that day because the black kids were there.

    If I saw the sign, I would assume that it was an anti-racist sign aimed at the insidious racism that the poster felt was in his community.
    It simply makes no sense as a racist act at all.
  20. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    You seem to have completely missed the point.

    Someone who knows nothing about the community or the people who live there, other than is it almost all black (but for one family which was not the family this article was about) making the assumption that everyone in the community is racist and will not deign to talk the black granny is, in itself, a racist viewpoint.
  21. angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

    The assumption that the area is all white is pretty racist in of itself, especially considering the fact that the name of the city was put in the article.
  22. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    What assumption?
    The article says that there is only one black family in the whole development.
  23. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Only black fmaily maybe, but that doesn't mean the rest is white.

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