Wolf Hunting Season to open in Sept

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by Orleander, Aug 27, 2009.

  1. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    yes we are, and if the wolves can take us out, more power to them.

    But it is a worthless rancher who loses that many sheep. They need to take better care and not just let them lose and wonder what happened when they have a field of dead animals.
     
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  3. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    Wolfe packs and sheep packs don't go along. Wolves should be given enough of the herdless space to exist. There is plenty of meat, Montana is desert like, it takes huge land mass to grow cattle, sheep, etc. I cannot even estimate area required to grow 300 sheep, it's huge.
     
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  5. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    huh?? :shrug:
     
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  7. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, except mountain forests, river valleys, Montana land it is low grass prairie (quite desert like especially when it's dry or burning), sparse rock brush or barely covered rocks. It takes huge land area to grow cattle there. One would think humans could "spare" some low productive land for wolves. Guess not.
     
  8. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    have you ever even been to Montana or a desert?
     
  9. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    Sure I've been to Montana and other 47 states. If the look of E. Montana doesn't remind you a desert, I don't know what will. So Cal Deserts (except Imperial Dunes) are not bare, there is brush, there are flowers and grasses. So technically even Mojave desert is not a desert. You tell me what area do you consider to be a desert?
     
  10. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    US 212, Wyoming - Montana border, E. Montana. If this is not "desert like", what is?

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  11. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    SE California looking from I-40

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  12. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    LOL, that's the plains. A grassland. You ought to see it in the spring. Lots of eating for domestic animals.

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  13. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    Cattle finds "plenty of food" even in Nevada deserts like this, it just take HUUUGE fenced pasture area.

    Nevada abundance of feed.

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    Here is yet another picture of Montana you could use to estimate abundance of feed

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    It's called short grass prairie or desert grasslands, it's bad suited for ranching. Cattle overgraze pastures fast and then drought comes in. Therefore, it takes huge areas to feed modest numbers of cattle (as well as lot of trucking to bring in feed from elsewhere).
     
  14. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    so its the soil and plants that makes it a desert and not the rainfall?? :bugeye:
     
  15. Enmos Staff Member

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    Ok, but I'm still not sure what point you're making. Are you saying that the sheep need to leave ?
     
  16. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, it's not as terrible as it sounds.

    shortgrass prairie grasses have low low nutritional value, they will not support large herds, they are the last to be eaten, they have sharp awns that pierce the lips of bovines. That's why on the picture of a Montana cow I've taken in late September there are plenty of the dried grass, cattle doesn't eat it.

    In well watered Midwest it takes 5 acres of land per cow/year. In short grass prairies I would estimate it to be 25 acres/cow/year (without extra feed purchases). So if all the bleeding hearts would purchase 1000 Montana cows (roughly $700,000) it would free 25,000 acres for wolves, etc.
     
  17. Enmos Staff Member

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    Ok, I agree that the cows are a waste of resources. If the resources are that scarce they are taking from the local wildlife.
    However, I don't see why the cows need to be purchased, and why you are referring to 'bleeding hearts'.
     
  18. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    Yet another picture of Montana, it's even less productive than Eastern Montana plains.

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  19. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    Sacred property rights obviously, I'm more than sure that the news about purchasing Montana cows to free land for the wildlife would steer talk radio industry quite a bit. It's a serious issue dealing with American myths, illusions and psyche.

    I would not expect "rugged individualists" to chip in.
     
  20. Enmos Staff Member

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    'Bleeding hearts' isn't exactly a positive manner of referring to people that care about nature (if that's what you are referring to). Usually, it's used as a derogative way to refer to liberals.
     
  21. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Wait a minute. We all know (or should know by now) that the Canis species (coyote, jackal, wolf/dog and a few others) are almost unique among predators in that they need to eat their prey's entrails and its contents, in order to maintain their intestinal bacterial culture. This is why they will scavenge other predators' kill sites and eat the parts that they left behind. It's also why your dog is right this minute out in the yard eating poop because you feed him food full of preservatives that makes it even harder for him to maintain his bacteria.

    A pack of wolves encountering a large flock of helpless prey might very well kill them all, eat only the gourmet parts--the entrails--and leave the rest for the bears and cougars. "Reverse scavenging."

    The way the European occupiers of North America used to slaughter entire herds of bison, take only the liver and a few other boutique cuts of meat, and leave the rest to rot.
    * * * * NOTE FROM THE LINGUISTICS MODERATOR * * * *

    A "desert" is defined as a region that gets less than ten inches (250mm) of annual rainfall--or where the air is so hot and dry that evaporation cancels rainfall.

    The average rainfall for the entire state of Montana is about thirteen inches. Not quite technically a desert, but close enough for hyperbolic banter. Of course it's a huge state so there are bound to be parts where there's more rain and other parts that resemble Arizona.
    It's beef that's resource-inefficient. Dairy farming is actually a reasonable way to grow food, especially if you let your cows eat low-quality grass instead of feeding them protein-rich alfalfa and fish meal. I've been told that a dairy cow produces ten times more human food per unit of feed than beef cattle.
     
  22. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I know they get a heck of a lot more snow than that. ???

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  23. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    Aye, those are mighty fine dogs. I've not had the opportunity to meet any in the U.S., though I encountered many Akbash and Kangal dogs throughout Turkey--and ran the streets in the middle of the night with them in Cappadocia. The Kars dog in Van and eastern parts proved elusive unfortunately.
     

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