Wire Tapping a Political Opponent.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Bowser, Mar 5, 2017.

  1. Bowser Right Here, Right Now Valued Senior Member

    Wow, does it get any weirder than this? I mean, during an election and all. I thought the WikiLeaks were pretty wild. Now the Obama Administration with the intelligence community working in synchronicity against a presidential contender.

    Yes, I meant "Wire TaPPing a Political Opponent"

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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    It never happened. Why are you spamming this forum with debunked crap like that?

    Maybe Trump is in some kind of a panic from losing his cushion, a loyal AG: he's a lot more vulnerable to the consequences of his behavior if he his pet AG isn't in charge of the investigations.
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  5. Bowser Right Here, Right Now Valued Senior Member

    LOL, it's about to hit the fan. People are speculating at the moment, but we're following the story wherever it arises.
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    #ProbablyDidntNeedThat | #WhatTheyVotedFor

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    President Baby Boy: Matt Bors, via Daily Kos, 23 February 2017.

    There's a confession buried in that tweet tantrum.

    That's what's bugging him. The steady thrashing of bad headlines really took it out of them last week; remember, they're understaffed somethin' stupid. And that's the thing. This Breitbart article has apparently been floating around all week, but ... I don't know, any other scandal week. Anything that's not attached to the Russia scandal.

    But he's got nothing, and what set him off is that the message really did become clear. Barack Obama could not disrupt the peaceful transition of power, but apparently the score is well known in various, necessary places around the government, and the wannabe puppetmaster Bannon can't figure it out. We might think Priebus knows the score, but ... he's Reince Priebus, so ... uh ... he's nearly a wildcard. Except, you know, he's Reince Priebus.

    President Trump had time to tack and embrace the office proper; he did not, and now the government he has so abused and has no intention of attending seriously is doing its job.

    And the leaks and headlines kept an understaffed White House running 'til dawn pretty much every night last week.

    Now the President lashes out, and I think he just confessed↗: I wonder what the alleged wiretaps allegedly caught.
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    It's arising from the bullshit pile you've built on your own front lawn. That didn't fall from the sky, dude - that's all your stuff, in the first place. You're following your own ass around, sniffing for clues.
  9. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Well unfortunately for you and the dittohead crowd you are standing in front of the fan along with your man: The Donald. If there was a wire tap, Obama needed enough evidence to convince a federal judge to issue the order. So by making this assertion as Trump has done, it pretty much guarantees the revelation of that evidence, if it exists. Moreover, it strengthens the case for an independent investigator: something Trump vehemently opposes. That doesn't bode well for Trump and his dittoheads. If Trump's allegations are not true, that further diminishes Trump's credibility. Now it won't affect the dittohead crowd. They will believe whatever shit the Republican Party leadership feeds them. But it does greatly diminish whatever ability Trump has to get his agenda through Congress. Trump's administration remains severely understaffed. Where is is tax reform package? Where is his infrastructure spending? Where is his healthcare reform? All of it is bogged down by his incompetence, disorganization, and distractions. Some people are legitimately doubting if Trump will be able to get anything done. I read a Bloomberg article to that effect this morning. If the business community begins to believe Trump's much vaunted "huge" stimulus package isn't going to happen, equity markets will go into free fall.

    A few more days like this and people won't be talking about taking away his ability to tweet; they are going to be talking about taking away his access to the nuclear codes.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017
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  10. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

    Wow, Bowser... Will that bastard never stop controlling y'all? If only the wingnuts could somehow gerrymander the voting districts to gain control of Congress and manipulate the Presidential election - why, then the world would be a better place.

    That would end all of the dastardly deeds and there would be nothing to fear from those scumbag liberals trying to save the world with all of their do-gooder, enlightened views. The black man in the white house would be gone. You could shape your own destiny. What a perfect situation that would be - it gives me goosebumps just thinking about it.

    Oh, wait...
    joepistole likes this.
  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

    It's funny. When the FBI was working to deny Clinton the election you were silent. When the Russians attacked the US to try to ensure a Trump victory you yawned. Now when it is revealed that there was an investigation against Trump during the election you are OUTRAGED!
  12. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Via LawNewz: Yes, There Could Be Serious Legal Problems if Obama Admin Involved in Illegal Surveillance
    by Robert Barnes | 3:45 pm, March 4th, 2017

    According to MediaFactCheck, LawNewz is a Left of Center News oganization founded and run by Dan Abrams, who is currently the Chief Legal Anchor for ABC News, and host of both 60 Days In and Live PD on the A&E network. Has a slight left bias in reporting, but is well source.

    Factual Reporting: HIGH

    If the stories are correct, Obama or his officials might even face prosecution. But, we are still early in all of this and there are a lot of rumors flying around so the key is if the reports are accurate. We just don’t know at this time. The stories currently are three-fold:
    first, that Obama’s team tried to get a warrant from a regular, Article III federal court on Trump, and was told no by someone along the way (maybe the FBI), as the evidence was that weak or non-existent;
    second, Obama’s team then tried to circumvent the federal judiciary’s independent role by trying to mislabel the issue one of “foreign agents,” and tried to obtain a warrant from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act “courts”, and were again turned down, when the court saw Trump named (an extremely rare act of FISA court refusal of the government, suggesting the evidence was truly non-existent against Trump); and so,
    third, Obama circumvented both the regular command of the FBI and the regularly appointed federal courts, by placing the entire case as a FISA case (and apparently under Sally Yates at DOJ) as a “foreign” case, and then omitted Trump’s name from a surveillance warrant submitted to the FISA court, which the FISA court unwittingly granted, which Obama then misused to spy on Trump and many connected to Trump. Are these allegations true? We don’t know yet, but if any part of them are than Obama and/or his officials could face serious trouble.​

    Who knows what other turds are floating just under the water in this sea of political barf? Let's hope the Justice System actually starts doing its job for once. What are we going to do? Let criminals like Bush II/Darth Cheney walk away from their crimes? Together with the criminal bankers they use to fund their phony wars?

    Well, of course we will. We have to wait until the systems themselves begin to buckle and breakdown. THEN, and only then, will you see some justice. I'd say, another 25 years away. Not far now.
  13. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    As an aside, it looks like God Emperor Trump's hard-line with the Sophists is paying dividends. Watch as "The Narrative" turns across the next 4 years.


    Expected Example:

    Brought to you by MSMus, permanent priest of Decimus Trumpus Talkshowus, son of Frederickus Christos Trumpus , twenty pairs of gladiators. And presented by MSMus, son of Gossipus, ten pairs of gladiators. They’ll fight at CNN Studii from the sixth day before the ides of April, through the day before. There will be a standard venatio [animal fights or men hunting animals] and awnings [to provide shade for spectators]. Plenty of free-shit will be givith.
  14. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    The FISA requests asking the secret intelligence court to authorize surveillance are evidence.

    One day before his inauguration, the January 19, 2017 New York Times ran a story about Trump and his people being investigated by the outgoing Obama administration for their fanciful contacts with the Russians. The very first sentence reads (highlighting by me), "American law enforcement and intelligence agencies are examining intercepted communications and financial transactions as part of a broad investigation into possible links between Russian officials and associates of President-elect Donald J. Trump..."


    The very lawyerly and artfully worded "denial" on Obama confidant Valerie Jarett's Twitter account is also confirmation of a sort.

    That text says that Obama never ordered surveillance on Trump or any US citizen because his White House never interfered in independent Justice Department investigations. Which basically amounts to confirmation that the investigation referred to in the New York Times was indeed taking place, and it was (according to this version) coming from the Justice Department. (It's useful to remember that under Eric Holder and then Loretta Lynch, the Obama Justice Department was hugely politicized and functioned as the enforcement arm of the democratic party.) Obama's people now want to distance themselves from their own investigation as much as possible, which is very understandable.

    But I don't think that there's much question that it was happening and that it included communications intercepts.

    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
  15. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
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  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    The key word being "If".
    There is no evidence the particular stories alleging illegalities are correct in those particular allegations.
    There is quite a bit of evidence the particular stories alleging illegalities are coming from the same sources that brought you the last twenty years of complete bullshit about Clinton, and Obama, and related subjects.

    That doesn't mean they are false. It does mean that there is no reason to trust them, or give them the slightest credence, unless and until they are supported by some kind of evidence. Of course "if" stories about Obama breaking the law are correct, then Obama could face legal prosecution. That was the case with all the other such stories about Obama we have seen floated in the US media - going back to the allegations he was born in Kenya, is a secret Muslim with ties to Islamic terrorism, and so forth.
    Abrams, and Lawnewz, are rated as "left biased" because they are reality based and provide factually accurate information.

    Dan Abrams is a rightwing biased corporate media pundit and executive who has built much of his career by abetting the sensationalizing of legal aspects of celebrity gossip. He and his pundit service and news aggregating semi-blog corporation Mediaite are among the go-to sources for Fox News in their fraudulent presentations, for example, despite otherwise "left" (reality based) content. He provides a cover of respectability for the Fox (and ABC) practice of phrasing unsupported and dubious allegations as "If" questions, upon which he delivers perfectly sound and otherwise worthless legal opinions that in practice affirm the legitimacy of the allegations so phrased.

    ABC is one of the major corporate media outlets most famously complicit in promoting the candidacy and political rise of Donald Trump, which they did to boost ratings and revenue.

    Here's a quote from your link, which you described as "left biased":
    That is wingnut bullshit, ok? It's not true (Nixon had no such qualms http://www.presidentprofiles.com/Kennedy-Bush/Richard-M-Nixon-Dirty-tricks.html), "liberals" understanding things is irrelevant, and if Obama's NSA, CIA, and FBI were "spying on" Russian cybercrimes intended to manipulate a US election, any involvement of Trump would be well within their ordinary and expected purview whether Trump was a political opponent of Obama's or not.

    Why do you always fall for this shit?
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
  17. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Although important I regard these things small issues.
    Trump is happy to have small issues front page as it takes focus from what are the important issues.
    Where are the important issues? What are you doing to fix the broken economy etc Mr Trump.
  18. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

    Cool story bro.
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    No, they aren't.
    The Justice Department was doing its job, in other words.
    So? That's their damn job.
  20. Capracus Valued Senior Member

    James Comey isn’t speculating, he ‘s fully aware of the source feeding the fan.

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    The F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, asked the Justice Department this weekend to publicly reject President Trump’s assertion that President Barack Obama ordered the tapping of Mr. Trump’s phones, senior American officials said on Sunday. Mr. Comey has argued that the highly charged claim is false and must be corrected, they said, but the department has not released any such statement.

    douwd20 likes this.
  21. Bells Staff Member

    That image will haunt my nightmares until the day I die.
  22. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Well, here is the problem with that. That's not what Trump has accused Obama of doing. Trump has specifically accused Obama of tapping Trump's phones at Trump Tower, and there is no evidence to support that.

    We know that the Obama administration tapped the Russian ambassador's phone as all presidents before him have done. So when Trump's associates called the Russian ambassador as they did, those conversations were picked up. But that wasn't because the Obama administration had tapped Trump's phones. Because he hadn't. Our government doesn't have to tap Trump's phones to capture conversations with the Russian ambassador.

    So let's cut the shit here and get back to honest discussion.
    douwd20 and Tiassa like this.
  23. Bells Staff Member


    And the story clearly states that the investigation centered around a few of his staff, who did have contact with Russia. They all withdrew and resigned as a result of said contact. Your own link clearly says this.

    At no point do they even mention Obama wiretapping Trump's phones in his home, which is what Trump accused him of doing. From your link:

    Mr. Manafort is among at least three Trump campaign advisers whose possible links to Russia are under scrutiny. Two others are Carter Page, a businessman and former foreign policy adviser to the campaign, and Roger Stone, a longtime Republican operative.


    The F.B.I. investigation into Mr. Manafort began last spring, and was an outgrowth of a criminal investigation into his work for a pro-Russian political party in Ukraine and for the country’s former president, Viktor F. Yanukovych. In August, The Times reported that Mr. Manafort’s name had surfaced in a secret ledger that showed he had been paid millions in undisclosed cash payments. The Associated Press has reported that his work for Ukraine included a secret lobbying effort in Washington aimed at influencing American news organizations and government officials.

    Mr. Stone, a longtime friend of Mr. Trump’s, said in a speech in Florida last summer that he had communicated with Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks, the anti-secrecy group that published the hacked Democratic emails. During the speech, Mr. Stone predicted further leaks of documents, a prediction that came true within weeks.

    Vastly different to what Trump accused Obama of doing. And Mr Stone, is the same Mr Stone who yesterday, tweeted about his collusion with Assange and Wikileaks.

    And the results of the investigation can hardly have been news to Trump.. He and Obama were both briefed on the investigation..

    High-level advisers close to then-presidential nominee Donald Trump were in constant communication during the campaign with Russians known to US intelligence, multiple current and former intelligence, law enforcement and administration officials tell CNN.

    President-elect Trump and then-President Barack Obama were both briefed on details of the extensive communications between suspected Russian operatives and people associated with the Trump campaign and the Trump business, according to US officials familiar with the matter.

    Both the frequency of the communications during early summer and the proximity to Trump of those involved "raised a red flag" with US intelligence and law enforcement, according to these officials. The communications were intercepted during routine intelligence collection targeting Russian officials and other Russian nationals known to US intelligence.

    Among several senior Trump advisers regularly communicating with Russian nationals were then-campaign chairman Paul Manafort and then-adviser Michael Flynn.
    Officials emphasized that communications between campaign staff and representatives of foreign governments are not unusual. However, these communications stood out to investigators due to the frequency and the level of the Trump advisers involved. Investigators have not reached a judgment on the intent of those conversations.

    We have essentially gone from that to 'he tapped my phones in my home', with no evidence whatsoever and when questioned and demands are made for said evidence, he suddenly says 'leave it to Congress', then gets on a plane and flies to Florida at the taxpayer's expense to play golf.

    So now, everyone is focusing on whether Obama tapped his phone (no evidence that he did), which I guess is a good way to distract from news that many of Trump's advisors had contact with Russia during the campaign, so much so that his AG lied under oath about it and had to recuse himself from all investigations into the matter..

    Do you really think that if he had evidence, he would not have presented it?
    douwd20 likes this.

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