Will Trump's Impeachment "blow the market away"

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by joepistole, May 19, 2017.

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Will Trump's impeachment blow away the markets?

  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%
  2. No

    7 vote(s)
    87.5%
  1. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    22,875
    My, I guess you don't get out much. You must be watching or listening to Fox News or right wing radio. That was Flynn. Trump's closest adviser has now taken the 5th. A few months ago he equated taking the 5th with an admission of guilt.

    By the way, I have answered it several times now. Just because you don't like the answer comrade, it doesn't follow your question wasn't answered.

    No, the truth is just the truth. Further, this wasn't about questions. It was about your assertion of bias. You don't remember writing, "BTW: All of your accusations are no more than that - accusations . . . and heavily biased, opinionated accusations at that!". You are attempting to revise history comrade.

    Yeah, so what if Russia supports Trump? You like that authoritarian nationalist shit otherwise known as fascism. You like that Putinesque mafia style corruption.

    You should know this but after nearly 30 years accusing Hillary Clinton of everything from simple malfeasance to serial murder, 3 special prosecutors, numerous congressional investigations, and an FBI investigation, Republicans haven't been able to produce a shred of evidence to back up any of their many allegations. Oops. The unfortunate fact for you is Hillary isn't a criminal real or otherwise. Unfortunately for you and your fascist cohorts, the truth still matters.
     
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  3. birch Valued Senior Member

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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    There's nothing to "disagree" with. There's no argument. The post is simply a couple of observations - you wanted evidence that Trump has committed impeachable offenses, and I posted two examples.

    That doesn't mean he will, or even should be, impeached - just that there's visible cause, if anyone wants to undertake the project.
     
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  7. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    5,160
    Before Flynn worked for Trump, he worked for Obama. The question becomes when did Flynn begin his Russian connection, if there was one? The left works under the premise that he never spoke to the Russians, until he met Trump.

    Obama fired Flynn for calling him spineless in terms of dealing with the threats to the US. The Obama approach benefited the Russians, since it did not push back against many of their hostile actions. Flynn did not give the Russians uranium but was against this. Flynn is a scapegoat to cover up the Russian connection of the Democratic party. Flynn was a highly ranked intelligence officer during Obama, who knew their policies. He had to be discredited, so he would not talk about these things.

    Let me pose this question. If the Russians had influence to have others destabilize the US, what would they like to see happen? Would the Russian like to see the US government destabilized, with misinformation, like is being done by their Democrat party comrades.

    What I would do is continue investigating the allegations against Trump for the rest of the year. If there is still no smoking gun, then the accusers from the left should investigated, since they appear to be helping the Russians create chaos. The left is not even thinking of solutions to problems but simply setting up chaos in the government. The Russians could not ask for a better partner.
     
    sculptor likes this.
  8. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    4,527
    sanctions
    imposed by usa and eu
    including seizing of property owned by putin insiders(including 3 villas in Italy)
    in an attempt to show that putin cannot protect his inner circle
    has had the effect of bringing those insiders closer to putin

    I am glad to see the inept and murderous(lybia, syria, etc) policies of the Obama presidency through the rear view mirror.

    Every 4 years we have the opportunity to vote and hope for something better.
    And we are usually disappointed.
     
  9. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, he worked or was supposed to work for the American people in an Obama administration. Flynn was a career military person. He entered military service during the presidency of Ronald Regan and served in the administration of every president until Obama fired him for his repeated attempts to politicize intelligence. A good intelligence officer doesn’t begin with the conclusion. He or she begins with the evidence, and that’s why Obama fired Flynn. Flynn wanted to begin intelligence with the conclusion.

    Do you have evidence Flynn spoke to the Russians before he met Trump? And the issue isn’t speaking with Russians comrade. The issue is conspiring with the Russians. The issue is secret meetings with Russian intelligence officers and lying about those meetings to US government officials. The issue is acting as a foreign agent and not registering as a foreign agent as required by US law. The issue is taking money from a foreign government and not reporting that money as required to do by law. Those are the issues comrade.

    Except, none of that is true, Flynn was fired for politicizing military intelligence. Flynn was fired not by Obama but by his peers. Flynn wasn’t high up enough in the bureaucracy to directly report to Obama.

    In you alternative reality Wellwisher, if Russia benefited from Obama’s “weakness”, then why has Russia done everything under the sun to weasel out of the economic sanctions Obama imposed on them? Why did Russia actively work to help Republicans, and Trump specifically, win the election? Furthermore as you have been repeatedly told, no one gave Russia American uranium.

    Where is the credible evidence for your alleged Russian-Democratic Party connection? It doesn’t exist. Because it isn’t true, it doesn’t even make sense. Why would Democrats ally with a hostile power which actively attempts to subvert Democrats?

    The fact is Russia intervened in our elections to elect Republicans and defeat Democrats per all of our intelligence agencies. And you are now attempting to scapegoat Democrats and folks of your ilk are wont to do.

    Yes, Russia could not ask for a better partner than Trump. That’s why they have and continue to support him. Trump has sown chaos. Trump’s positions on NATO and his conduct last week have weakened NATO, our best and strongest ally, and Russia’s biggest threat. Yeah, Putin could not hope for a better ally than Trump.

    The investigation of Trump should continue. It should be unfettered. It should last as long as necessary to get to the truth. If it takes one year, it takes one year. If it takes four years, it takes 4 years. It took more than 2 years to get to the bottom of Watergate, and this is Watergate on steroids. Republicans have spent nearly 30 years investigating Clinton, and you only want to spend 1 year investigating Trump? You don't see your hypocrisy?

    From the very beginning Trump has done everything possible to suppress this investigation. He has fired the investigator as Nixon did before him. Before that, Trump successfully suppressed the House investigation by compromising the Republican congressman leading the investigation.

    One more final point, the chaos in government has nothing to do with investigations. It has everything to do with Trump's well known incompetence as exemplify by his repeated bankruptcies spanning the course of decades. Bill Clinton was investigated by Republicans for the full 8 years of his presidency without any chaos. Obama was investigated by Republicans during his 8 years without the kind of chaos we see in the Trump administration. The cause of the chaos is your man Trump. It’s not the investigations comrade.

    But it's not surprising to see Republicans play this tactic again. Whenever a Republican occupies the White House, it's traitorous to even question the POTUS. When Democrats occupy the White House, it's traitorous to not be critical of and resist the POTUS. It's funny how that works, and you cannot see your hypocrisy?

    Democrats didn't cause Trump associates to meet secretly with Russian intelligence and banking officers. Democrats didn't cause Trump's associates to lie about those meetings. Democrats didn't cause Trump's associates to act as foreign agents and fail to register as they are required to do by law. Democrats didn't cause Trump's associates to fail to disclose their Russian contacts as they were required to do by law. Democrats didn't cause Republicans to attempt to setup a secret Russian communication channel using Russian equipment to avoid detection by US counter intelligence officers. Trump and his associates did that all on their own comrade.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,875
    And where did you get the premise the sanctions were intended to show Putin's insiders Putin could not protect them? You are making shit up again comrade. The sanctions were intended to do what that have done. They were intended to put economic pressure on Russia. Sanctions don't work over night. They work over the course of years, e.g. Iran. Iran isn't a disappointment. As a result of the sanctions Iran is no longer a nuclear threat. What's your alternative to economic sanctions? Would you prefer warfare? Is it your position the world should sit idly by and let Russia invade and annex its neighbors as the world did with Hitler? When to you draw the line. Do you have a better solution? Let's see it.

    One more point, European countries seized Russian assets not because of sanctions but rather because of law suits. Oops! The property seizures were court ordered compensation to the victims of fraud and embezzlement. The Russian property seizures had nothing to do with Obama's economic sanctions on Russia. http://www.newsweek.com/france-belgium-and-austria-seize-russian-assets-over-yukos-dispute-344467

    What makes you think Obama's Libya policies were "murderous" and inept? Please do be specific. Libya has always been a violent place. Its leader was the terrorist who shot down an American airliner.

    Syrian policy is debatable. But, given Republican obstruction, Obama had few choices in Syria and none of them were good choices. Now if you have a better solution, now is the time to show it. Your "change" candidate has done nothing but continue Obama's Syrian policies. Would you rather the US invade Syria and spend a trillion dollars reconstructing the country as Bush 2.0 did when he invaded Iraq?
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
  11. wellwisher Banned Banned

    Messages:
    5,160
    Before Flynn worked for Trump, he worked for Obama. The question becomes when did Flynn begin his Russian connection, if there was one? The left works under the premise that he never spoke to the Russians, until he met Trump.

    Obama fired Flynn for calling him spineless in terms of dealing with the threats to the US. The soft handed of Obama approach benefited the Russians, since it did not push back against many of their hostile actions. Flynn did not give the Russians uranium. He was against this. Flynn is a scapegoat to cover up the Russian connection of the Democratic party. Flynn was a highly ranked intelligence officer during Obama, who knew their policies. He had to be discredited, so he would not talk about these Russian dealings.

    Let me pose this question. If the Russians had the influence to destabilize the US, what would they like to see happen? Would they be happy with the way the US government is being destabilized, with misinformation, by their Democrat party comrades?

    One needs to look at history. The Democrats like socialism and even communism. They also have a soft spot for dictators. They have more in common with Russia. They are not into capitalism and smaller government, just like Russia.

    What I would do is continue investigating the allegations against Trump for the rest of the year. If there is still no smoking gun, then the accusers from the left should investigated, since they appear to be helping the Russians create chaos icing KGB misinformation tactic. The left is not even thinking of solutions to problems but simply setting up chaos in the government. It quacks like a duck.
     
  12. wellwisher Banned Banned

    Messages:
    5,160
    Trump was a unique candidate running for office. He was from the private sector, with no formal government experience, other than as a donor. He bought and sold career politicians to have leverage in his endeavors. People in the private sector, who have international businesses, conduct business all over the world. This is not illegal. It is called international trade. Bill Gates has interests all over the world. That is the nature of a huge international business.

    To conduct international trade, you need to go through the proper channels, in each country, to be able to trade, with the trade policies set by the government. You will need the assistance of top Russian officials, to do business in Russia. This is the donation channel, just like with the US government. Who knew Trump would win (besides nee). Going through channels was not a big deal until Trump won. It was normal business, spun into a scandal, only after he won.

    If Trump had been a career politician, like Hillary, and he had access to classified intel, then interaction with the Russians, should raise a red flag, since he would know things sensitive to the government. This is not the same as a private citizen, without any access to sensitive intel, doing international trade deals, all with no direct government ties. The Russians cannot leverage an outsider, to get inside classified information, if he has no access. That would be a waste of resources, since it is not a sure thing. If the Russians approached you, what secrets could they get out of you, if you do not have access to secrets?

    Hillary should have known better, considering the level of her position and her use of a private server during and after the Clinton Foundation obtained Russian donations and Bill was paid to give a speech. She had access to secret intel on Russian intelligence and hacking capability. She should have known they might tap her less secure private server to protect their trade investment. This server also contained secret information connected to the US government business. Hillary got to pretend to be naive, even while working in government for decades, finally in top diplomatic position, where she had total access to the higher levels of classified information. She had no excuse but was given an excuse, why?

    Trump had no such access, as a private citizen, but the Democrats assume he should be required to know more about the shady side of Russia compared to a top level career politician with a security clearance like Hillary. Judging a private citizen by the standard of the Washington insiders. is like judging bureaucrats by the standards of the private sector. This may explain why Trump feels they need to downsize.

    They need to take a second look at Hillary since she should have known better considering her years in government and the level of secret and classified information she had access too, including inside classified knowledge of Russian intel and computer tactics and capabilities with respect to a private server. Trump did not have a security clearance to know except by here-say.

    Trump was the outsider without much access. Hillary should have known better and should have been held to the highest standard, and not a lower standard than a private citizen, unless corruption was involved. This traces us back to President Obama or his staff who were the only ones who could make this call. They then needed an offensive strategy to deflect the true focus of the misstep.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
  13. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    22,875
    Trump is certainly unique, but not in a good way. Didn’t Trump say he was uniquely qualified to be POTUS, that only he could fix our problems? So it’s odd to hear his supporters, like you, excuse away his failures with the inexperience excuse.

    What does trade have to do with Trump’s failures? Nothing, it has nothing to do with Trump. Trump is a failed businessman who took his father’s fortune and squandered it on failed business ventures.

    That’s why we have trade treaties Wellwisher. Trade processes and mechanisms have been in place for every nation in the world. It’s not like Trump invented trade. I’m sorry to tell you Wellwisher, Trump didn’t invent trade, and he didn’t invent the Russian trade. Russia is under international sanctions for its repeated aggressions against neighboring states and as a result much of the Russian trade is forbidden.

    Going through channels isn’t a big deal after Trump became POTUS either. But colluding with a hostile state to throw an election is a big deal. Espionage is a big deal, and it should be. Trump’s associates began secretly meeting with Russian intelligence officials before the election and continued after the election. Trump’s associates lied about their meetings to Congress and other government officials. They all forgot to list their Russian meetings on their security screening applications. And now we learn one of Trump’s closest advisers met secretly with a Russian intelligence officer and a Russian banker to set up a secret communication facility using Russian communication gear in order to avoid US counterintelligence scrutiny.

    That’s not normal, no matter how you try to package it comrade.

    None of that makes even a lick of sense comrade.

    a) Trump had access to US intelligence briefs as a private citizen and as the Republican nominee and he chose to not take many of them. Hillary was provided the same briefs.

    b) US intelligence has nothing to do with trade or trade policy. You don’t need access to US intelligence in order to conduct international trade.

    c) Trump's use of unregistered foreign agents (e.g. Flynn & Manafort), and the secret Russian meetings and subsequent lies about them is cause for concern. The failure to disclose those meetings and the lying about those meetings is very disconcerting and that's why the FBI began the investigation of Trump and his associates.

    d) Clinton’s email has nothing to do with Trump’s problems. Her email server was extensively investigated, there was no evidence her server was ever hacked, and the FBI found no evidence of criminal wrong doing.

    e) You need to stop using Clinton as a crutch. The election is over. What you want to do is uses Clinton as a distraction as Republicans have done for the last 30 years. You need to get over your Clinton addiction and put on your big boy pants and stand on your own two feet.

    But that’s the problem isn’t it? You folks cannot stand on your own two feet. You need a crutch. You need someone to hate and to fear. You need someone or thing to scapegoat. Tough, you got it. It’s all on you and your man Trump. You need to man up and take accountability for your actions.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
  14. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,875
    As you were previously instructed, Flynn was a career Army officer who began his service under the Reagan administration. When Flynn began his Russian connection isn’t relevant here. The fact is he had one, and it first surfaced after he had been dismissed by the Obama administration.

    Where is your evidence the “left works under the premise that he never spoke to Russians, until he met Trump”? As previously pointed out, it isn’t relevant for all the previously given reasons.

    Except, that’s not true either, Flynn was fired because he attempted to politicalize military intelligence just as did when he served as the national intelligence officer in the Trump administration. He began with the conclusion and then looked for the evidence to support his conclusion. That’s not how intelligence is supposed to work. Ask Bush 2.o how well that worked out for him.

    No matter how many times you repeat your falsehood, it won’t make it any less false.

    Well, Russians are did influence the US election and they are very happy. When Trump’s victory was announced Russian government officials celebrated.

    As you were previously instructed, Democrats aren’t destabilizing the US government Trump is doing that all on his own. That’s why Russia supported The Donald. That’s why Russia intervened in our election in order to get him elected.

    Democrats are doing what they should be doing. They are standing up for American values, and rightfully so. Exercising their rights and duties doesn’t destabilize the country comrade. And you and your Republican cohorts should be ashamed for saying otherwise.

    Alienating our allies as Trump did last week destabilizes our country. Trump’s pathological lying destroys his credibility and the credibility of the nation. That destabilizes our country comrade. Trump’s inability to lead destabilizes the country. Trump’s ignorance and narcissism destabilizes the country. Trump’s incompetence destabilizes our country, and people like you who put him in office destabilize our country.

    Democrats like what works for the American people. They like capitalism, but they aren’t ideologically ill disposed to some socialistic programs like Social Security, and Medicare when they make sense. Republicans like those programs too. But they don’t want to acknowledge it or they remain ignorant of the fact that their socialistic government programs are socialistic in nature.

    Again Wellwisher, just where is your evidence Democrats like dictators? You have none, because none exists. Democrats believe in and actively propagate democratic values and human rights. That puts them at odds with the dictators The Donald so loves, e.g. Putin. That’s why those dictators favored Trump. That’s why one of those dictators intervened in our election in order to get Trump elected.

    Yeah, you have already said so. Why do you feel it necessary to repeat yourself? As you have been repeatedly told, it took more than 2 years to find Nixon’s smoking gun. It took a year and a half to clear Clinton of your baseless email allegations. You folks investigated Clinton for almost 30 years and found nothing. You folks investigated White Water for nearly 8 years and found no there, there, and you only want to investigate your man The Donald for a year? Truth be told, you don’t want him investigated at all. Tough, you need to man up.

    I tell you what, you investigate all the people who falsely accused Hillary of wrong doing over the course of the last nearly 30 years first, and then you can investigate all of Trump’s accusers. Do we have a deal?

    Unlike all the Republican partisan investigations of Hillary, Trump and his associates are being investigated not because someone has accused them of wrong doing, but because of the evidence. There is overwhelming evidence here of suspicious activity. We do know Russia actively intervened in our election to help Trump. We know Trump’s campaign officials had illicit contacts with Russian intelligence and banking officers both during and after the election. We know Trump’s associates lied about their Russian contacts and tried to conceal them. We know Trump called upon Russia to help him by releasing Hillary's emails. We know Trump has and continues to advocate some very Russia friendly policies. We also know Trump has been the least transparent POTUS since Nixon. We also know Trump’s business dealings provide ample opportunity for miscreant behaviors. We know of at least one and possibly more Trump financial deals which give the appearance of Russian money laundering.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
  15. karenmansker HSIRI Banned

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    638
    HAHAHA! . . . . LMAO, Joe . . . . . . (or is it . . . . .Comrade!?)
     
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    24,457
    Too bad we couldn't get the same view of the much more inept and much more murderous W&Co policies - like Obama was, we're still stuck with a lot of them.
     
  17. Woody1 Registered Senior Member

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    Trump colluding with the Russians. bwahhaha. Democrats need something to do since they were voted out. Sure. Go ahead.
     
  18. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah! Who cares if Republicans colluded with a hostile foreign country to subvert American democracy and the American Constitution? Who cares if they violated American law? Who cares about corruption in America? Comrades like you certainly don't.
     
  19. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    You would justify Obama's and Sarkozy's murder of >30,000 libyans by reference to "W&Co" ?
     
  20. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    22,875
    And where is your evidence Obama and Sarkozy murdered more than 30,000 people?
     
  21. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    4,527
    see:
    National Transitional Council of Libya
     
  22. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    22,875
    And?
     
  23. Woody1 Registered Senior Member

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    178
    I think you're kind of a kook myself.
     

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