Will the Universe Run Out Of Energy?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by paddoboy, Mar 31, 2015.

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  1. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    http://www.universetoday.com/119602/will-the-universe-run-out-of-energy/#more-119602
    Will the Universe Run Out Of Energy?

    by FRASER CAIN on MARCH 30, 2015

    It seems like the good times will go on forever, so feel free to keep on wasting energy. But entropy is patient, and eventually, it’ll make sure there’s no usable energy left in the Universe.

    Thanks to the donations of generations of dinosaurs and their plant buddies, we’ve got fossils to burn. If we ever get off our dependence on those kinds of fuels, we’ll take advantage of renewable resources, like solar, wind, tidal, smug and geothermal. And if the physicists really deliver the goods, we’ll harness the power of the Sun and generate a nigh unlimited amount of fusion energy using the abundant hydrogen in all the oceans of the world. Fire up that replicator, the raktajino is on the house. Also, everything is now made of diamonds.

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    Geothermal Energy. Image Credit: climatelab.org

    We’ll never run out of H+. Heck that stuff is already cluttering up our daily experience. 75% of the baryonic mass of the Universe is our little one-protoned friend. Closely followed up by helium and lithium, which we’ll gladly burn in our futuristic fusion reactors. Make no mistake, it’s all goin’ in.

    It looks like the good times will never end. If we’ve energy to burn, we’ll never be able to contain our urges. Escalating off into more bizarre uses. Kilimajaro-sized ocean cruise liners catering to our most indulgent fantasies, colossal megastructure orbital laser casinos where life is cheap in the arena of sport. We’ll build bigger boards and bigger nails.or something absolutely ridiculous and decadent like artificial ski-hills in Dubai. Sadly, it’s naive to think it’s forever. Someday, quietly, those good times will end. Not soon, but in the distant distant future, all energy in the Universe will have been spent, and there won’t a spare electron to power a single LED.

    Astronomers have thought long and hard about the distant future of the Universe. Once the main sequence stars have used up their hydrogen and become cold white dwarfs and even the dimmest red dwarfs have burned off their hydrogen. When the galaxies themselves can no longer make stars. After all the matter in the Universe is absorbed by black holes, or has cooled to the background temperature of the Universe.

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    Artist’s impression of a Star feeding a black hole. Credit: ESO/L. Calçada

    Black holes themselves will evaporate, disappearing slowly over the eons until they all become pure energy. Even the last proton of matter will decay into energy and dissipate. Well, maybe. Actually, physicists aren’t really sure about that yet. Free Nobel prize if you can prove it. Just saying.

    And all this time, the Universe has been expanding, spreading matter and energy apart. The mysterious dark energy has been causing the expansion of the Universe to accelerate, pushing material apart until single photons will stretch across light years of distance. This is entropy, the tendency for energy to be evenly distributed. Once everything, and I do mean all things, are the same temperature you’ve hit maximum entropy, where no further work can be done.

    This is known as the heat death of the Universe. The temperature of the entire Universe will be an infinitesimal fraction of a degree above Absolute Zero. Right above the place where no further energy can be extracted from an atom and no work can be done. Terrifyingly, our Universe will be out of usable energy.

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    The white dwarf G29-38 (NASA)

    Interestingly, there’ll still be the same amount it started with, but it’ll be evenly distributed across all places, everywhere. This won’t happen any time soon. It’ll take trillions of years before the last stars die, and an incomprehensible amount of time before black holes evaporate. We also don’t even know if protons will actually decay at all. But heat death is our inevitable future.

    There’s a glimmer of good news. The entire Universe might drop down to a new energy state. If we wait long enough, the Universe might spontaneously generate a new version of itself through quantum fluctuations. So with an infinite amount of time, who knows what might happen?

    Burn up those dirty dinosaurs while you can! Enjoy the light from the Sun, and the sweet whirring power from your counter-top Mr. Fusion reactor. Your distant descendants will be jealous of your wasteful use of energy, non-smothering climate and access to coffee and chocolate, as they huddle around the fading heat from the last black holes, hoping for a new universe to appear.

    http://www.universetoday.com/119602/will-the-universe-run-out-of-energy/#more-119602
     
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  3. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Yep. the universe will become cold and dark, kind of like my mother-in-law. Just kidding about my mother-in-law she is a nice lady.
     
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  5. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    more...Fraser Cain...
     
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    More dmoe!
    He writes great and factual articles. Glad you like him.
    I'll keep posting the really interesting ones for you.

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    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
  8. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

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    No, It will not happen.

    The Energy-Matter-Energy continuum would continue....no end !!
     
  9. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Have you any reference or evidence for saying it will not happen?
    I mean this matter has been studied and researched by many authoritive cosmologists and physicists, and simply based on the physics we already know, entropy and the fact that energy will in the end be evenly distributed, and everything is the same temperature, seems to be the logical conclusion.

    I see no logical reason to doubt that scenario.
     
  10. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Please present the evidence that supports this assertion.

    The Rule of Laplace is one of the cornerstones of the Scientific Method: "Extraordinary assertions must be supported by extraordinary evidence before we are obliged to treat them with respect." If you intend to disagree with the scientific community, whose assertion is supported by considerable evidence (both observational and mathematical) you MUST present your evidence.

    Otherwise your post will be moved to one of the pseudoscience boards.

    Fraggle Rocker
    Moderator
    Linguistics
     
  11. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    That is one theory, but evenly distributed doesn't mean the universe will be without energy. I think the correct answer is, we just don't know.
     
  12. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    We don't know? We also don't know for certain that extra terrestrial life exists somewhere, sometime, off this Earth, but logical assumptions based on numbers and the stuff of life being everywhere, still leads most scientists to strongly believe we are not alone....likewise the Heat Death is the most widely accepted probable fate of the Universe, remembering that this will be just a smidgin above 0, K.

    It is at this time the prime theory supported both observationally and mathematically by most.
     
  13. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    It is at this time the prime theory? Where is the supporting background for that claim? There are a number of possible theories. The fact that they are theories testifies to the fact we don't know with any degree of certitude how the universe will end. There is more we don't know, than what we do know. Personally, I think the False Vacuum Theory makes more sense.

    Your argument that "widely accepted" trumps "don't know" is silly. There was a time when it was "widely accepted" the world was flat and the Sun orbited the Earth. Without sufficient evidence, which is the case, all we can do is theorize until such time when more information becomes available. The honest fact is no one knows with certitude how the universe will end.
     
  14. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    No, there are two prime theories for the [ as far as I know] "end of the Universe" The Big Freeze [or Heat Death] which is spoken of in the article, and the Big Crunch, or eventual recollapse.
    These scenarios are based on data received by the WMAP probe re "critical density".
    If the density is less then "critical" the Universe will continue expanding forever....If it is equal to "critical density" the expansion will continue although slowing down...If the density is more than critical density, expansion will stop and collapse.
    The data received by WMAP reconfirmed the density being less then critical and our observations of accelerated expansion rate towards the observable Universe tallies with that data.
    Hence it being the prime theory.

    The scientific evidence is in supporting the Big Freeze or Heat Death, so in actual fact, you are under-estimating current data.
    Yep, there was a time it was widely accepted the Earth was flat, and also the center of the solar system and the Universe...mostly religiously inspired doctrine, when the church did control "knowledge" and such.
    Science/cosmology though has taken us out of those dark ages, and will continue to reveal knowledge to us.
    And yes theories will change, and be modified some as we gain more and more knowledge....But by the same token, scientific theories also gain certainty over time, to a point where some now are certain, and others pretty damn well near certain. Evolution is certain...The BB evolution of space and time [space-time] is as near certain as one would hope, as is SR/GR.....Abiogenesis is a logical default position for the beginnings of life.
    Cosmology also makes logical assumptions based on what we already know and logically applying that knowledge....The generally accepted Isotropic and Homegenious nature of the Universe over large scales are examples of that.
    So far the ultimate fate of the Universe is less then certain, but the evidence we have supports that likely scenario so much so, that it is seen as the logical fate, whereas the Big Crunch lacks evidence totally.
     
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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  16. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    It's Omega = 1. That's a ratio between the critical density and the measured density p/p_critical. This means the universe geometry is flat and infinite in extent. That was a major finding of WMAP. It's also a prediction of Eternal Inflation.
     
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  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks brucep.....
     
  18. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

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    Moving a post / thread here and there is your prerogative.

    But please do that if you 100% agree with what Fraser Cain says....even he is doubtful as he puts the question mark. This article itself is commercial pseudo-science article mixing up too many things. More rationale approach of course is that "we do not know for sure" as stated by many posters......in that case both pro and anti opinion on the article deserve the same place (Science or pseudoscience section)...you decide.
     
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    That's far different though to what you have said.


    No, it will not happen?
    I have shown and referenced with evidence that it is most likely to happen.
    What is your evidence to show it won't happen?
    That's all you have been asked.
    It's as certain as any scientific theory generally is, and that is all anyone is saying.
     
  20. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Nothing wrong with the thread. It is based on much data.
    It's your assertion that is questioned.

     
  21. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

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    A. You have shown nothing.
    B. The article is evidence for nothing.
    C. This is a non-scientific article, at the best for very lay persons.
    D. No scientists as on date stated this as a "certain scientific theory".

    I have told you, Paddo, many a times in the past, that you get influenced by such dummy articles, and on top of that you start claiming that "you have shown with reference and evidence"....you have to get over with this "shown with reference" syndrome.

    As per forum rules, it would have been proper for you not to have copy pasted the complete article, you could have just provided the link below the title.....I do not now why Fraggle missed that.
     
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    The article I presented is based on the accepted assumptions from the data and observations of WMAP and other observations......
    Most is based on the critical density aspect and observed accelerated expansion as I have explained.......
    No one has claimed it is a "certain scientific theory" But it is well supported.
    If and when any new evidence emerges, we may need to reconsider. At this time, that seems unlikely.
    http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_fate.html
    http://www.universetoday.com/22382/...e-chandra-provides-insights-into-dark-energy/

    Yes, you have told me much, and none of it has been of any worth and has shown to be invalid in all threads and in all respects.
    Why you should think that your layman's opinion, totally unsupported should be accepted over reputable links and references, just confirms your general anti accepted science stance as shown in many threads.
    You need to get over this "inflated ego" and "delusions of grandeur" baggage you have.
    In essence, you need to accept that you are no one...

    Universe Today has given the OK for complete articles to be posted.
    I'm not contravening any rules as you are, and as you have been pegged for.
    The amazing thing about it all, is that you have been continually doing this over many cosmological threads.
    Now please do as you have been asked, and supply evidence that the "heat death" or Big Freeze will not happen, as you have been asked in post 7.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2015
  23. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    What exactly do you think a "certain scientific theory" is? That is not any term I would see in science, it is some sort of laymans term I suppose.
    One of the clear possibilites for the fate of the universe is that it will become cold and dark. Based on the current evidence that is the most likely result. That could change tomorrow of course with new evidence, but that is how science works.
     
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