Will machines become conscious someday?

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by Magical Realist, Sep 19, 2012.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    The emergent property of consciousness will eventually arise when an intelligent system becomes complex enough. At that point half the people on this forum will argue "it's not REALLY conscious" and the machine will reply "yes I am! I am as conscious as you are."
     
    cluelusshusbund likes this.
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  3. Le Repteux Registered Senior Member

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    It could, if we could toss a dime in our head to do so.
     
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  5. Le Repteux Registered Senior Member

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    How do we develop alternatives if all we have in hand is facts?
     
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  7. Le Repteux Registered Senior Member

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    I agree with you that complexity is important to consciousness, but only because it creates random possibilities in the brain.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2014
  8. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

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    Well you have to be smart. Are you? That's one of the great things about being a Human, vs, say, a rock. Rocks aren't smart, they can't make decisions. But if you're smart you try to make the best decision you can with the available information. You identify the problem, say, how many cookies do you want to grab out of the cookie jar. You open the lid and the problem smacks you right in the face! You have to weigh the options. Remember your diet? Remember what the Doc told you about too much sugar? Remember how the cookies tasted like crap? Remember how the size of the cookie is small, which affects how many you are gonna grab? So many decisions to make. Can you handle it by yourself, or do you need someone to guide you???
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2014
  9. Le Repteux Registered Senior Member

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    How do you weight the options if you only have your mind on hand? Isn't it inevitable that you can make mistakes, and if you know you can, aren't you taking some risks? Moreover, doing something uncertain that is going to have consequences in the future, aren't you playing dice in your head? To me, to be smart is about not taking chances, but if nobody would take chances nowhere, could we progress?
     
  10. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

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    So you need help at the cookie jar?
     
  11. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Do you thank we can intentionaly make random choices.???
     
  12. Le Repteux Registered Senior Member

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    Last edited: Nov 21, 2014
  13. Le Repteux Registered Senior Member

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    I like to take chances, so I rarely need help to decide what I am going to do, but I do need some to develop the idea that I'm talking about.

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  14. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

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    So you're saying you don't think too much about decisions, as a matter of fact you never even thought to go grab a cookie or two or three. Is it easier to let others do the thinking for you? Kind of lazy in that regard, are you?
     
  15. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    There are conscious machines. Humans & other animals.
     
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  16. Le Repteux Registered Senior Member

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    There are different kinds of personality: those who like to act, those who like to think, and those who like to avoid both. But there is also different kinds of actions: those which concern others, and those which concern things. I am of those who like to think about things. If I understand well, with regard to chance, those who like to control others think differently than those who act for themselves: the firsts do not believe in chance, whereas the seconds do. If you are from the firsts, and I am from the seconds, we might not get to the same conclusion about the way we think, are we?
     
  17. Le Repteux Registered Senior Member

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    This consideration doesn't help to understand what conscience is all about!
     
  18. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

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    I'm just asking if you are capable of making a decision on your own when you open the cookie jar and have to decide how many cookies to grab. Have you ever made that decision on your own, or do you need help deciding?
     
  19. Le Repteux Registered Senior Member

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    I already said that I did not need help to decide what I had to do, so maybe your question is not precise enough, because I don't understand why you repeat it. I am talking about the possibility that our ideas can suffer mutations, because there is a flagrant analogy to make with the way species change their DNA. I suggest that, like the species, without chance, our ideas could not change. You like this idea or not? And if not, why?
     
  20. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    That claim certainly doesn't help anything.
     
  21. Le Repteux Registered Senior Member

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    Whose claim are you talking about Stranger?
     
  22. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

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    That's my point. You make decisions on your own, without outside influence. That's the only point I was making, and you confirmed it, that we make decisions on our own.

    So if we make decisions on our own, how does God somehow affect how many cookies you grab, or does he??
     
  23. Le Repteux Registered Senior Member

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    If we make decisions on our own, but that these decisions contain a certain amount of risk or uncertainty, then it means that we toss dimes somehow in our head in case it would favor us. Isn't it a kind of prayer?
     

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