Will humans evolve further?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by grazzhoppa, Aug 4, 2002.

  1. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    unfortunately humans are today far more ahead of any disease or parasites than any animals before, something catastrophic would need to happen to put humans back in their place.
     
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  3. Pinwheel Banned Banned

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    Like maybe a virus that renders the population blind.
     
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  5. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    Not at all. I simply make snide comments when people use sloppy terminology in a scientific context.

    To say you don't care for semantics is to say you don't care for meaning. You are indifferent to careful definitions. You disregard the importance of a common language with accepted meanings. Branding something as a semantic argument is the resort of someone who hasn't thought things through properly and perhaps not thought them through at all.
     
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  7. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Science does not exist in a vacuum, I'm talking about ideology and philosophy in this context, don't confuse it with science.

    Foolish red harring, tell me do you disagree with my argument about the present direction of human evolution? If not then lets discuss it, rather I suspect you much rather argue about semantics. The semantic failing was on your part, you were assuming I was talking about a scientific term, I wasn't, you then were implying the term must be wrong as it does not exist in science, a variety of terms and categories exist outside of science, if you have to question their existences because they are outside of science than the fault is yours not mine.
     
  8. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    That was a good movie.
     
  9. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Some humans who have modern medical care might be more able to fight diseases, but that is a relatively recent innovation. The diseases are catching up, and there are always new ones. Humans have to evolve just to stay in the same place.
     
  10. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Diseases can't catch up, our technology evolves much fast then nature does, new diseases will come but their lethality will be greatly diminished from the days of say the black plague or small pox, fuck small pox was wiped out, it did not catch up! Darwinian evolution of nature can't compete against the pseudo-lamarkian evolution of technology.
     
  11. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Technology applies to relatively few humans. The evolutionary race doesn't end just because a few wealthy societies have achieved some temporary reprieve.
     
  12. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Never said it did stop. Rather that its direction has changed and rate has dropped. World population has grown so rapidly that there is little selection, not like there use to be when world population was kept at a steady 10-50 million for millennia, even in Africa, even in Somalia they have more resources and people than was possible a 1000 years ago! The rapid growth world wide has allowed for people that would not have reproduced thousands of years ago to survive and breed today, the selection mechanism has weaken when far fewer can be killed off from one generation to the next. Further more selection is no longer on individuals that are smarter, tougher, etc, simple on what ever breeds the most in this era of food more plentiful then every before, medicine and leisurely labor, which no longer relies on being smart and tough.
     
  13. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    You have a myopic view of selection. Spanish flu killed 50 million people not too long ago. It's true that greater public health measures have change the equation somewhat, but as we learn how to treat disease, the diseases change to catch up. It's an arms race and it always has been, that fact will not change. Even computers can get viruses now, it's an unavoidable aspect of complex systems.
     
  14. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    that was not 25-50% of the European population like bubonic plague now was it? I'm not saying disease is not a endemic problem of the system, I'm saying disease ability to cause damage is ever more limited, if the 1918 flu were to happen today I guarantee you the death toll would be less per population than it was in 1918, we would have more effective quarantine and a vaccine out within months to weeks, our ability to adapt to disease is exponentially increasing faster than the rate of disease to adapt to us, as such disease is becoming less and less a factor in controlling human population.
     
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You just realised this?

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  16. Pinwheel Banned Banned

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    But only because we understand the 1918 flu. The next thing may be different and take us by suprise. Any airborne disease has potential to strike before we realise whats actually going on, and before we take measures to contain it.
     
  17. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Then explain the rapid rise in autism. It cannot be explained only by the rise in diagnosis. Lack of certain selection pressures influence evolution as much as their presence. International travel means that distinct races are becoming less distinct. All kinds of new circumstances are arising. Religions arise which influence reproduction rates, prosperity reduces reproduction rates. Some populations get modern medicine, some do not. If anything the situation is becoming ever more complex. The selection pressures have changed, but they have not disappeared.
     
  18. Yes AI probably could last an eternity but what does that have to do with what I said?
     
  19. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    you requested a purpose to last through the generations, well how about a purpose that will last forever?

    why not? Are you suggesting some kind of infectious diseases is causing autism?

    Never said they disappear, I glad we agree on the nature of the changing pressure of evolution on humanity.

    Possible, but unlikely.
     
  20. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    I'm suggesting the selection pressure that selected against non-social people is disappearing. Evolutionary trends are occuring all over the place. Given the rate of social and technological change, evolutionary change can only increase.
     
  21. Oh so your saying I should/could work on AI?
     
  22. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    The gene pool will deepen but, but that does not mean the genes in the pool will be of much value.
     
  23. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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