Will a Wormhole solve the daed end aspect of a BH?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by paddoboy, Jun 10, 2016.

  1. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Black_Holes_Might_Not_be_Dead_ends_After_All_999.html

    Black Holes Might Not be Dead-ends After Allby Staff WritersLisbon Portugal (SPX) Jun 09, 2016

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    A physical body might be able to cross a wormhole, in spite of the extreme tidal forces, suggests a new study by Rubiera-Garcia, of Instituto de Astrofisica e Ciencias do Espaco (IA , and his team. This result, published in the journal Classical and Quantum Gravity, is supported by the fact that the interactions between the different parts of the body, which hold it together, are preserved. The team was invited by the journal editors to write an insight article that was published online this week.

    In their previous work, the authors arrived at theoretical descriptions of black holes without a singularity, that bizarre and infinitesimally small point where space and time ends abruptly. What they found at the centre of a black hole, and without actually being in search of one, was a spherical and finite size wormhole structure.
    more at link:
     
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  3. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    http://phys.org/news/2016-06-black-holes-dead-ends.html

    Black holes might not be dead-ends after all
    June 8, 2016

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    A black hole devouring a star. Credit: NASA
    A physical body might be able to cross a wormhole in spite of the extreme tidal forces, suggests a new study by Rubiera-Garcia, of Instituto de Astrofísica e Ciências do Espaço (IA), and his team. This result, published on April 28 in the journal Classical and Quantum Gravity, is supported by the fact that the interactions between different parts of the body that hold it together are preserved. The team was invited by the journal editors to write an insight article that was published online today.



    Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2016-06-black-holes-dead-ends.html#jCp
     
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  5. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    The paper:
    http://iopscience.iop.org/article/1...1892CCCFD9B5819414C.c2.iopscience.cld.iop.org

    Impact of curvature divergences on physical observers in a wormhole space–time with horizons:

    Abstract
    The impact of curvature divergences on physical observers in a black hole space–time, which, nonetheless, is geodesically complete is investigated. This space–time is an exact solution of certain extensions of general relativity coupled to Maxwell's electrodynamics and, roughly speaking, consists of two Reissner–Nordström (or Schwarzschild or Minkowski) geometries connected by a spherical wormhole near the center. We find that, despite the existence of infinite tidal forces, causal contact is never lost among the elements making up the observer. This suggests that curvature divergences may not be as pathological as traditionally thought.

     
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    http://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevD.92.044047

    Geodesic completeness in a wormhole spacetime with horizons:


    ABSTRACT
    The geometry of a spacetime containing a wormhole generated by a spherically symmetric electric field is investigated in detail. These solutions arise in high-energy extensions of general relativity formulated within the Palatini approach and coupled to Maxwell electrodynamics. Even though curvature divergences generically arise at the wormhole throat, we find that these spacetimes are geodesically complete. This provides an explicit example where curvature divergences do not imply spacetime singularities.

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  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Could a mod fix up the "daed"in the title to dead?

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  9. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    It is often said that if any passage through a wormhole is attempted, then it would collapse. Sad.

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    I did find the following interesting though.........
    http://www.space.com/27845-interstellar-movie-wormhole-travel-feasibility.html
    While wormholes are possible according to Einstein's theory of general relativity, such exotic voyages will likely remain in the realm of science fiction, said renowned astrophysicist Kip Thorne of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, who served as an adviser and executive producer on "Interstellar."

    "The jury is not in, so we just don't know," Thorne, one of the world's leading authorities on relativity, black holes and wormholes, told Space.com. "But there are very strong indications that wormholes that a human could travel through are forbidden by the laws of physics. That's sad, that's unfortunate, but that's the direction in which things are pointing."

    The major barrier has to do with a wormhole's instability, he said.

    "Wormholes — if you don't have something threading through them to hold them open — the walls will basically collapse so fast that nothing can go through them," Thorne said.

    Holding wormholes open would require the insertion of something that anti-gravitates — namely, negative energy. Negative energy has been created in the lab via quantum effects, Thorne said: One region of space borrows energy from another region that didn't have any to begin with, creating a deficit.

    "So it does happen in physics," he said. "But we have very strong, but not firm, indications that you can never get enough negative energy that repels and keeps the wormhole's walls open; you can never get enough to do that."

    Furthermore, traversable wormholes — if they can exist at all — almost certainly cannot occur naturally, Thorne added. That is, they must be created by an advanced civilization.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    One could speculatively say, that mankind's future of extended interstellar travel, would depend on either worm hole travel, or some other means of spacetime manipulation, similar perhaps to the "Alcubierre warp drive".

    Let's hope we can, or our descendants can, eventually achieve such incredible advanced technologies, otherwise we just may have to stagnate within at least our solar system and close stellar neighbours!

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  10. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Here's another interesting paper entitled "Black Hole as a Wormhole Factory"and sort of aligns with my own speculative ideas.....

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1502.06375v4.pdf

    Black Hole as a Wormhole Factory:

    Abstract:

    There have been lots of debates about the final fate of an evaporating black hole and the singularity hidden by an event horizon in quantum gravity. However, on general grounds, one may argue that a black hole stops radiation at the Planck mass (¯hc/G ) 1 / 2 ∼ 10 − 5 g, where the radiated energy is comparable to the black hole’s mass. And also, it has been argued that there would be a wormhole-like structure, known as “space-time foam”, due to large fluctuations below the Planck length (¯hG/c 3 ) 1 / 2 ∼ 10 −33cm. In this paper, as an explicit example, we consider an exact classical solution which represents nicely those two properties in a recently proposed quantum gravity model based on different scaling dimensions between space and time coordinates. The solution, called “Black Wormhole”, consists of two different states, depending on its mass parameter M and an IR parameter ω: For the black hole state (with ωM 2 > 1 /2), a non-traversable wormhole occupies the interior region of the black hole around the singularity at the origin, whereas for the wormhole state (with ωM 2 < 1 /2), the interior wormhole is exposed to an outside observer a s the black hole horizon is disappeared from evaporation. The black hole state becomes thermodynamically stable as it approaches to the merge point where the interior wormhole throat and the black hole horizon merges, and the Hawking temperature vanishes at the exact merge point (with ωM 2 = 1 /2). This solution suggests the “Generalized Cosmic Censorship” by the existence of a wormhole-like structure which protects the naked singularity even after the black hole evaporation. One could understand the would-be wormhole inside the black hole horizon as the results of microscopic wormholes created by “negative” energy quanta which have entered the black hole horizon in Hawking radiation processes; the quantum black hole could be a wormhole factory ! It is found that this speculative picture may be consistent with the recent “ER = EP R” proposal for resolving the black hole entanglement debates.
     
  11. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know, I kind of like it.
     
  12. The God Valued Senior Member

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    Paddoboy,

    You have proposed one more thing that BH is the arse end.

    Both these things have a small problem, the problem is if mass is thrown to new universe or another part of our universe, then the impact of BH on this side would change.
     
  13. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Firstly, I'm speculating. Important point you should realise.
    Secondly, observing you in action on this forum, and your many claims and predictions re accepted mainstream physics, then whatever you propose/suggest, is questionable at best. Sorry.
     
  14. The God Valued Senior Member

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    Lo....
    If mass is removed from a BH and thrown to other side, whatever mechanism, then obviously the gravitational impact on this side will change. This is basic physics, not my theory.
     
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  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Except that all our known laws and GR break down at the quantum/Planck level, where the wormhole may take form.
    Stop telling nature/the laws of physics what to do in an unknown situation.

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    Who knows what the possible formation of a wormhole can/would do?
     
  16. The God Valued Senior Member

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    What exactly you mean by Plancks level ?

    You are writing about it very often, but please understand planck parameters like L, t, m and other derivatives are mathematical manipulations with assumed universal constants like G,c and h. The physical aspect or significance of the same is neither observed nor established. So saying that our laws fail at plancks level is a meaningless statement and you are repeating it too often.
     
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  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, and I told you that ages ago, when you were again proposing some nonsensical pseudoscience.
    But while it is only a mathematical derived convenience, it is a mathematical convenience that exists at the quantum level.
    And obviously saying that our laws and GR fail at that level, needs to be repeated as many times as is needed, particularly with anti science and religious trolls and cranks, that conduct their evangelistic crusade against science and the scientific establishment.
    Again, our known laws of physics and GR, do not apply and break down at the quantum/Planck level.
     
  18. The God Valued Senior Member

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    What is Quantum level then ?

    Our Quantum Physics rather works very well at that level ? And quantum mechanics involves known laws of Physics at that level, they do not fail at Quantum Level.

    You seem to be thoroughly clueless, what you are talking about.
     
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  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I believe the shoe is on the other foot my friend.
    But of course, the onus is on you to show the forum, or at least clueless me, what your QGT is. And of course than extend that to the BB singularity [quantum/Planck level] and of course the BH singularity [quantum/Planck level]
    The quantum level of course is where quantum mechanical effects over ride all other issues.
    So come on, don't be shy! Tell the world about your QGT?

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    Last edited: Jul 18, 2016
  20. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Do_Black_Holes_Have_a_Back_Door_999.html

    Do Black Holes Have a Back Door:

    One of the biggest problems when studying black holes is that the laws of physics as we know them cease to apply in their deepest regions. Large quantities of matter and energy concentrate in an infinitely small space, the gravitational singularity, where space-time curves towards infinity and all matter is destroyed. Or is it?

    more at link..................
     
  21. The God Valued Senior Member

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    There are billions of galaxies, so there could be billions of black holes, so there are billions of places where laws of physics cease to apply...thats bad for physics, isn't it?

    Instead of saying that laws of physics cease to apply, why don't we see the more logical approach, that is keeping the physics intact what could be the alternative possibility?
     
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    The laws of physics and GR cease to apply, or more correctly reach the limits of their known applicability at the quantum/Planck level of those billions of BH's. Bad for physics? Why? Was Newtonian laws bad for physics before the great man gave us SR/GR?
    But all we need is a workable observable, validated QGT which you claim to have...so let's hear it.
    SR/GR, the BB, BH's universal expansion, explains how the Universe is, but not why it is.
    Very Important!

    I've put that question to you many times and you simply ignore it many times.
    Please give me an explanation of the effects we see on matter/energy and spacetime, which can be explained without BH's, which by the way are the only viable solutions under either GR or Newtonian. [Newtonian result being a Dark Star without further compulsory collapse as dictated by GR]
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2016

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