Wiccan and Neo-Pagan thought and origins

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Tht1Gy!, Sep 15, 2008.

  1. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    Not quite -no- where else. There are others who were part of it around the time Gardner joined, but they said very little of it.
    Regardless, it is likely that the NFC began in the 1920's, when Margaret Murray's ideas were published, and when a LOT of other esoteric and occult organizations got their start.
     
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  3. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    Joined...joined what?

    There is no evidence of any New Forest Coven outside of Gardner's 'creative' writing.
     
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  5. Simon Anders Valued Senior Member

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    I mean for those of us with mixed ancestory, some mish mash of European countries plus anything else - as one example - we often cannot simply claim to our own satisfaction 'I am a Celt' or whathaveyou and follow to the best of our scholarship the rituals, etc. of the Celtic religion. It has been too long since our ancestors had their religion tortured, killed, suppressed 'educated' out of them, to draw such a straight line. So we go by feel. We may feel an affinity for Native American religions, but it would be odd, unless we clearly felt reincarnated or had some significant blood or upbringing in Native traditions, to take up one tribes beliefs. So we choose from amongst beliefs we resonate with - nature based, often magic based beliefs and rituals - ones we make, find ourselves or ones others with similar needs found and made. Religions are not static things anyway. They changed over time. Speaking of Native Americans you can see what a wild diversity came out of groups that were members of the same group not too long before. Individual shamans, etc. brought rituals and stories and practices into the group and religions evolved, even if they kept certain underlying principles.

    A look at Christianity shows a wild and strange and very human evolution involving decisions and eliminations

    think of the Catholic mass
    or the texts that were included and now are not
    and so on.

    Attacking wicca because people created it is silly unless one wants to attack all religions this way. And even if one wants to do this latter, the criticism is empty. Those people generally claimed to be inspired by more than their own guesses. If you think they were right, then it is attractive to you. If you think they were wrong, then it isn't.
     
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  7. Tht1Gy! Life, The universe, and e... Registered Senior Member

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    Alert: Blatant Thread Plug to follow

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    ... and speaking of Hermetics... Here's a thread, complete with a link to a FREE .pdf book- The Kybalion.

    http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=84157
     
  8. Tht1Gy! Life, The universe, and e... Registered Senior Member

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    My thoughts damn near exactly. Thx Simon.

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    Emphasis mine
     
  9. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    The problem is not that Wicca was created by people...rather that the people lied about its creation.
     
  10. Simon Anders Valued Senior Member

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    That might be a problem for the liars, but it doesn't really matter any more in relation to people who are into Wicca.
     
  11. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    Except the Wiccans continue to repeat the lies.
     
  12. Tht1Gy! Life, The universe, and e... Registered Senior Member

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    Which (witch?) Wiccans, which lies?
     
  13. Simon Anders Valued Senior Member

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    See above Th1tguy.
    But also, my sense of Wiccans is that most of them tend to focus on their rituals and nature, etc., and, at least the ones I know, make few claims about a history of their beliefs and are not so interested in that end of things. Much like most Christians could give a shit about the history of Christianity.
     
  14. Tht1Gy! Life, The universe, and e... Registered Senior Member

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    Well I get what he's saying. But we've left most of that stuff behind and few us continue to repeat them. In fact, I don't know anyone who still buy into the "lies" Carcano talks about. Tho I hear of them. Kinda 'Urban Myth"ish, I think. Most of us are fully aware that while we are guided by research in to history, the "Old Religion" is not an accurate term and Wicca as it is practiced today is rather new.

    And we're making it up as we go along. Proudly!!!

    So I repeat: Which Wiccans, and what lies. Specificly. Do you actually know any practicing Wiccans who are doing this. Other than maybe a newbie who found an old book?
    And if they refer to themselves as "A white witch", ugh. Please, please tell them to read Starhawk, Amber K, Buckland, and/or Cunningham.
     
  15. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    It starts with the writers and trickles down to the practitioners.

    Do I have enough experience to comment on the current state of writings and beliefs? Yes, in fact I'd have to say I'm uniquely over-qualified.

    The neighborhood isnt exactly awash in Wiccans, but they do hover about in their quiet way. There used to be a bookstore down the street called The Wiccan Rede, and I was in and out on many occasions.

    I even bought a second hand book...and actually read it!!!

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  16. Simon Anders Valued Senior Member

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    I meant he should see above to your pointed question.
     
  17. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    I think we covered that in the previous thread...and he made it clear he's not interested in truth vs. falsehood.

    Remember, the human ego loves certainty.
     
  18. Tht1Gy! Life, The universe, and e... Registered Senior Member

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    KMA! Carcano. I have done extensive reading. And while it's good that you've done some reading into the subject, one book does not constitute 'research'. And OK, I'll admit there are books that perpetuate myths, I still suggest you check out the authors I've listed. There are many other good authors

    I maintain, I've never met these types you speak of.

    Why is it wrong to follow one's Tao? Why must one follow the words of another in-toto?
    If one looks into any discipline, regardless of what it is, from wicca, to the hard sciences, one will find good books and crap books. I repeat, one book does not "research" make.
     
  19. Tht1Gy! Life, The universe, and e... Registered Senior Member

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    Oh.

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  20. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    Thats just the book that I happen to own, and its content is typical of Wicca texts I see in bookstores and the library.

    And its no wonder, if you look into the authors biography you'll notice that hes spent a lifetime involved with a wide diversity of wicca groups on both sides of the Atlantic.
     
  21. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    Theres nothing wrong with following one's own path...as long as its truthful.

    You dont even care if your beliefs are true or not.

    When Gardner wrote the basis of the threefold law, he likewise didnt have a clue whether it was true or not, and furthermore didnt care.

    He just sat down...and thought about it...it sounded cool...so he wrote it down.
     
  22. Tht1Gy! Life, The universe, and e... Registered Senior Member

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    :wtf:
    Dude you don't even know me, so how can you say such an absurd thing?
     
  23. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    Your right...I dont know you.

    But I know what youve written.

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