Why would evolution create a higher state of consciousness?

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by John J. Bannan, Jul 31, 2007.

  1. Wisdom_Seeker Speaker of my truth Valued Senior Member

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    I try to practice meditation, and I have reached small periods of time were I stop thinking. Specially in these periods curiosity arises in me; cause I have found myself flooded with tears of joy for no reason at all. My emotions are happening weather I think of them or not.
     
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  3. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    If you're talking that sort of "meditation" then look up Apollonian Ecstasy.
    It doesn't require "meditation" or even attempting to not think.
    I've had it many times when concentrated fully on something and "lost" hours at a time.

    Don't you have to think to recognise you're having the emotion?
     
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  5. Wisdom_Seeker Speaker of my truth Valued Senior Member

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    To concentrate fully on a feeling with nothing else on my mind; I don´t call that thinking, is it thinking?
     
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  7. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    If want to know what the emotion is, yes.
     
  8. Wisdom_Seeker Speaker of my truth Valued Senior Member

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    There are times when I don´t really want to know what the emotion is, I just experience it, really.
     
  9. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    What is it?
    Why am I experiencing it?
    If it's good how do I get it again (if it's worth having again)?
    If it's bad how do I avoid it?
     
  10. Wisdom_Seeker Speaker of my truth Valued Senior Member

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    Not at all, the main thing is not to judge what you are experiencing. You really are talking about the past now, not the present. You are saying that whenever an emotion arises in you, you need to compare it to emotions you have had in the past, and put the emotion in words. But that is not living in the present is it? What about if you are experiencing a completely new emotion? One that you have never experienced before...
     
  11. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    Did I say all that?
    No.
    I said I ask what it is (is = now)
    How can I avoid it (in future) if I'm enjoying it (enjoying = now)
    etc etc.

    That's why it works on new emotions (whatever they are - I doubt that at the age of 51 there's a new emotion hanging about waiting for me to come across

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  12. Enmos Staff Member

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    Hey, I just want to understand what it is that you believe. Up to now I have no clue :shrug:
     
  13. Enmos Staff Member

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    I'm sorry but how do you know you are not thinking, it makes no sense to me. Please explain.
     
  14. Wisdom_Seeker Speaker of my truth Valued Senior Member

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    lol, if you are talking about God, I have no clue either; but I don´t close myself to possibilities. I call myself a "theist", although I´m not a believer of any religion. The reason I do this, is because for me it is impossible for our life to be an existencial coincidence, we are here for a reason, a very important reason one might say.
    It doesn´t really matter to me if there were many gods who "built" the planet and genetically manipulated matter for us to come into existence; or if an alien planted DNA on Earth. Whatever it was, many people want to grasp it by thinking, well I know that that is quite impossible.

    I just know that we are just energy in movement; our thoughts are energy, our actions, our words and our emotions as well... All is energy in different vibrations and we perceive this by our limited 5 senses which perceive each one a different vibrational frequency of the same energy; finally we interpret this with our brain. So far so good right?
    The vibrational frequency of the energy of thought can be perceived by some people with what is normally called the "sixth sense", this can be cultivated and trained. This is part of what I have experienced naturally with love, and makes me want to go deeper into it.

    But this opens the path to a whole new set of possibilities: are you changing the world with your thoughts? Well you are changing yourself with them, you are part of the world, and therefore you are changing a part of the world with them.
    What about water changing its form in response to prayer and people´s thoughts? We are like 70% water so it takes no genius to figure out that the same changes are happening within ourselves depending on what thoughts and emotions we are sending to our system. Most people are addicted to certain feelings, some are hooked on depression, anxiety or fear; this is obviously later manifested in overall sickness.

    We does consciousness fit in here? Well consciousness is the understading and controlling of these characteristics of our body. Some call it "being the Master of one´s energy".

    It has happened just a few times for me; but it is actually a very real thing. For example: one day I got angry at my boss, so I started noticing it, and I focused my attention in the changes of my body done by the anger; the anger just went away, really, there was nothing left except compassion, it was transformed. On the other hand, one day I was kissing my wife, and I experienced what I may call an overflowing love; I stopped thinking and focused entirely on the feeling, on my body, what happened is that the feeling intensified, it was like an emotional ecstasy, really.
    I´m talking about living in the present, always, not be carried away by our robot-like functioning. Tantra specializes in this, and it takes sex as the key for doing this; because this "glimpse of consciousness" naturally takes place during the act of love-making, when done right off course.
     
  15. heliocentric Registered Senior Member

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    Alot of scientists and philosophers are arguing that we might not be our minds atall.
    Or rather what you take to be 'you' is really just a flimsy self-model running alongside nth number of hidden processes that lie out of your self-model's (i.e. the 'you' part of your mind's) reach.
    What's also quite worrying is that in experiments on brain activity 'decisions' only seem to appear within the conscious mind (or self-model) after the decision seems to have already been made by the limbic system. Which raises alot of questions about free-will as youd imagine.

    Either we decide to make an action (i.e. lift a cup) visceraly and then that decision is transfered into a conscious thought which we mistake for the point at which the decision originated.
    Or the brain/mind contains far more independant processes than we at first thought, it could be that the 'self' is just a way to tie all these systems and sub-systems together with the illusion of complete autonomy and control over all various aspects of the brain.

    So at best you can only really say youre a very small portion of your mind/brain.
    Personally id argue that you are neither your body or your mind, youre simply your own sense of self.
    i.e. if i could make you 'self-experience' within another body with a different set of characteristics and a mind with a completely different temprement and likes and dislikes. I think you (or anyone) would instantly associate themselves wth that new mind and body.
    Even if your original body and mind stood infront of you, you wouldnt really think of it as being 'you' because you wouldnt be self-experiencing it.
    Its really the centre of experience that dictates 'i'ness'.
    The attributes (physical and mental) of the 'i' in question are really neither here nor there, they arnt the source of your sense of self.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2007
  16. Enmos Staff Member

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    Ok, I see. Thanks for explaining your believe.
    Still, you haven't answered the question of were the self resides.

    I think we may have totally different definitions of "thinking", would you please define your concept of it ?
     
  17. Enmos Staff Member

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    Yes, so the 'self' resides within the brain.
     
  18. heliocentric Registered Senior Member

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    yep, but your sense of interiority or 'me'ness' is harder to locate (if it can be atall).
    If im being unclear, think of it this way - why are you self-experiencing as you and not say, your bestfriend or your mother?
    Even if i could make a perfect clone or copy of you, exactly replicating your mind and body with complete accuracy you still wouldnt associate yourself as 'being' the clone.
    Therefore your sense of 'being' or sense of self is a very distinct property from the mind, brain or body.
    You're the self-experiencing quality of the system, not the system itself.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2007
  19. Enmos Staff Member

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    I don't get it. You are not recognizing the clone as being yourself because it isn't. The two minds, although the same, are separate.
     
  20. heliocentric Registered Senior Member

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    the point im making is the mind cant be the thing that defines 'you' because an absolutely identical mind doesnt define you in the slightest, you still wouldnt claim possesion over it.
    And youre right the only real difference is seperateness, or 'not being in possesion' of the other mind.
    Its only when you possess or perhaps more accurately - self-experience something that it becomes definable as you.
     
  21. Wisdom_Seeker Speaker of my truth Valued Senior Member

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    Not a physical plane, that´s for sure.

    Althought thinking is:
    "Thought or thinking is a mental process which allows beings to model the world, and so to deal with it effectively according to their goals, plans, ends and desires."
    From some Princeton place

    I´m saying let go of the goals, plans, ends and desires; once all that is gone, and you are just experiencing the reality, is that thinking? I´m talking about knowing yourself, through the act of non-thinking, just watching without any judgements...
     
  22. Enmos Staff Member

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    Isn't the 'self' of the clone the same 'self' as yours then ? In that cause it can be considered yours, only the you that resides in the other brain.
     
  23. Enmos Staff Member

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    Well, isn't letting go of the goals, plans, ends and desires a goal/plan/end/desire in itself ?
     

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