Why worship?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Saint, Feb 20, 2015.

  1. Light Travelling It's a girl O lord in a flatbed Ford Registered Senior Member

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    why do you feel that the requirement for being superior to human beings is stopping human beings from doing horrible things to each other.?
    Simply doing nothing is enough to be superior to human beings, given your criteria above.
     
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  3. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Diseases, birth defects, mutations and abnormalities aren't human made but exist from nature in nature. So if there was something superior to humans, like god, then why would it attack humans with things like that?
     
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  5. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    Nature is generally indifferent to man. It is indifferent to the suffering of any individual or even groups of individuals. Mankind exists in the blink of an eye on a cosmic timescale. It is arrogance and self-centred to see nature's normal functioning as an "attack". Things occur naturally, and we just happen to be caught in the middle of it.
     
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  7. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    My point being that if god existed what was its idea to inundate humanity with diseases that can't be prevented, defects that lead to early deaths and a cornucopia of other problems that humans are afflicted with that they did not make but just happen to get for no reason other than this god wanted it that way.
     
  8. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    One answer to thread's question, is it provides something to do in hopeless situations, and even if no God exists, does not damage you. I'll tell I, a firm agnostic on the god existence question, who almost never prays was praying hard as I could once:

    I was sailing at night in a boat with aluminum mast and heard a hissing above me and saw a bluish glow at top of the mast. I knew immediately what it was, even the name: St. Elmo's Fire. The electic field at top of mast exceeded the dielectric break down strength of air. Fortunately, as is normal, the metal mast was connected to the metal keel and the current flow into the ocean water was like a lightning rod - preventing a bolt of lightning from hitting the boat. If it did, the induced current in me by the huge dB/dt might have killed me. So in addition to praying, I got as far from the mast as I could. In 5 or so minutes the hissing stopped as did my praying. I was glad to have seen St. Elmo's Fire (and lived to tell about it).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2015
  9. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

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    If you can push through that, denying your own sense of 'oughtness' and worship Him in spite of it all, that spells faith. Faith is 'square one' with Him. It is also an elementary form of loving Him.
     
  10. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    Sounds like co-dependency. Why love someone that hurts you and threatens eternal torture if you don't?
     
  11. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    As I say I just do not want to believe in something that kills people for the fun of it. I'll just stick to believing in myself at least that way I can't blame anyone else for my problems but myself which is the way I learn and grow.
     
  12. Light Travelling It's a girl O lord in a flatbed Ford Registered Senior Member

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    that's not what you said I'm afraid. You said that God can't be superior to humans unless he stopped them harming each other.
    In fact a god or any other life form can be superior without doing any of that.

    Humans are themselves part of nature so nature ineracts with itself. If an ecosystem has been set up ( by god, or by chance) that contains viruses, bacteria and mutations it does not equate to an attack on humans
     
  13. Light Travelling It's a girl O lord in a flatbed Ford Registered Senior Member

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    the presumption here is that God exists for the sole purpose of gratifying human beings needs, and preventing their suffering and that there could not possibly be any greater purpose for God's existence than serving us... ?
     
  14. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Even though those types of medical problems kill humans and humans have no defense for them.
     
  15. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    Who said it's anyone's "idea", like it's something deliberate? Even taking gods into account, we're not inherently important. That seems like a really arrogant and anthropomorphic way to viewing things. Yes, we're so damn important that everything about the universe is framed around us. That just sound silly. We aren't the centre of the goddamn universe.
     
  16. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    So why then, in your view, did you god put humans here? Just to watch them live and die with a plethora of diseases that your god created along with the humans. Your god sure has a warped sense of humor.
     
  17. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    They didn't. Humans came about the same way every other species has: evolution. You're still evading, or ignoring, my stance and are trying to address a monotheistic, teleological strawman. Which I am not.

    Again, it's nothing deliberate or intentional. It's just part of nature. Life isn't easy. And it certainly isn't based around our comforts. We're one species out of millions. What makes you think we're so special that the universe and life has to be framed around us, otherwise its unjust?

    Bolded for emphasis. Because this is one of the main reasons I can tell you're ignoring what I'm actually saying. I'm a polytheist; "your god" implies monotheism, which I do not believe in. As I said, you're addressing a strawman.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2015
  18. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    I'm just saying that THOSE WHO BELIEVE that a god made everything don't have answers for things like why did their god make diseases that weren't here before humans arrived? Why did THEIR god create new diseases after humans were "made" by it? Shouldn't their god make it a safe world as it wants humans to enjoy life not be sick all of the time. I'm just trying to understand how those WHO BELIEVE IN god can enjoy it so much after god created so many problems for humans instead of giving them a clean bill of health .

    THIOSE WHO BELIEVE in god never seem to ask why but just follow along with the rest of the flock and won't listen to science at all.
     
  19. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    It's called compassion. If he was the power to prevent these things and doesn't, then he's not a nice entity, and why should we venerate something that's not nice to us?
     
  20. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Worship, especially praying for things or relief, is part of a natural and common development pattern, which starts with baby crying when hungry. Later the child will ask for money or specific gifts like a bicycle. Still later he will try to please his teachers, then his boss, etc. Eventually most find it difficult to accept there is no more powerful provider they can turn to, so they invent one (or several usually, with specialized tasks, like making rain or the hunt a success, etc.)

    It is too scary to fully accept that you are trapped on a little rock orbiting the sun and may die like the dinosaurs did when something you cannot control or avoid, like another space rock smashing you and your house, hits.
     
  21. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    Because having friends in high places can pay off once in a while. A purely contractual perspective, but there it is.
     
  22. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    You can be obsequious then, I refuse.
     
  23. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    I mean, my religion isn't 100% contractual. Because I believe that the gods can and do have compassion, and do display it towards humanity; but they aren't omni-benevolent, just as they aren't omnipotent. They are fickle with their cares and desires, just as any intelligent thing is, and they are more restricted in their power than the classical monotheistic conception of a god.

    And, there are cultural facets to contractual theology that one must consider. Yes, on a purely practical frame of mind, it is good sense to court the favour of a divine being by respecting it. It is, after all, more powerful than you. But in Hellenistic society, for instance, reciprocity and hospitality was a huge deal, as was the relative placement of one's station in society. Respect for those above you, and gentleness towards those below you, was a virtue. And that meant respecting the gods, because they were at the top of the food chain. It also meant that if you invited them into your home, as one did through household rituals, one must give them honour and respect as guests of great standing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015

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