why we need ghosts

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by birch, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. ajanta Registered Senior Member

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    I knew about EMF meter from discovery channel a little bit but not more. Does EMF make any problem to human brain also ?
     
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  3. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    There are theories that high emf can effect brains negatively with stress or even hallucinations. However it's never been proven. What's interesting about these EMF fields that move around is that they are often accompanied by a noticeable cold spot in the same area. Investigators also feel an electrical charge in the air during these moments and the overwhelming sense of a presence. All of this is confirmed by thousands of investigations.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
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  5. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    How many possible causes for that have they ruled out so far?
     
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  7. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    For a moving emf field that is also a cold spot? Which cause needs to be ruled out?
     
  8. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    No let's stick with the first case. Do you have anything besides video footage from un-named people, showing a meter needle moving?

    If this has been investigated properly I would expect there to be a description of at least the following (this is not exhaustive, just the things I can immediately think would be relevant):

    - location, environment and circumstances of the house
    - identity and credentials of the persons making the investigation
    - details of the methods of investigation (procedures, measuring equipment, precautions against false results )
    - detailed description of what is observed
    - discussion of possible causes, what has been done to eliminate those not favoured as explanations, and interpretation
    - comparison with similar cases, if relevant.

    Has any of this been done? Can we see it?
     
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  9. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    No..you have the investigation video itself. That's what you asked for. Examples of emf measurement. You also have several videos showing the EMF meter measuring moving fields and measuring fields where there is no electricity. In addition there are videos of clear voices picked up during investigations. That's what happens on these investigations.. Look into the field yourself if you want to learn more. There are hundreds of these online. I'm not pandering to you moving the goalposts every time I give you evidence. I'm too used to that tactic to fall for it again.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  10. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, you have given an EMF example..... but it is just yet another video, when I was asking for something besides just videos.

    All we have here is a video of a meter of some unspecified sort, with a moving needle. There is no description of the operating principle of this meter, what it is measuring, in what units, what would cause it to give a reading, or how alternative causes of movement have been eliminated from the investigation. (You claim there is no power in the house but there is a TV in the kitchen, so that's wrong.)

    My list above is intended to give an idea of what would be needed to overcome the obvious shortcomings of simple video footage. It is noteworthy that instead of addressing this issue you choose instead to accuse me of moving the goalposts. But, whether you like it or not, these videos you post in such profusion are unpersuasive precisely because they fail to deal with the sorts of things that are on my list. These things are what any scientific manner of making observations would deal with.

    You can post videos until you are blue in the face, but unless some effort is made to put them into the context of a properly rigorous investigative process, described and open to challenge, then they are worthless.
     
  11. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    No...you got exactly what you asked for. Examples of emf measurement. I'm not jumping thru endless hoops of your own coniving. If you are so ignorant about how paranormal investigators operate and the kind of evidence they obtain, research it yourself. There's plenty of information out there at your disposal. I'm pretty sure you won't though. You're just another disengenous skeptic intent on denying the obvious.
     
  12. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    This evasive reaction just illustrates the lack of credibility of the whole subject.
     
  13. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Well one thing about EMF measurement, that is an obvious thing to check, is what the frequency of the radiation is - assuming it is an AC EMF. Has this been done and with what result?

    What's the betting these ghosts run on 50Hz in Europe but 60Hz in the USA?

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    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
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  14. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Science is all about jumping through endless hoops.
     
  15. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Go look it up. Call some paranormal investigators. Check the manufacturer of the meters.

    Here's some information on the ranges of EMF meters:

    http://www.ghostgadgets.com/_knowledge/emfexplained.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  16. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    He's not jumping thru any hoops to research this field. He wants me to do it all for him and he knows I won't. That's the last thing I'm doing. I just provide the evidence here and let people decide for themselves. If people want to impugn the evidence as fake or erroneous, that's their burden not mine.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  17. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    You're the one claiming this is evidence for ghosts, you'll have to put at least some effort in if you want people to believe your claims.
     
  18. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    No..I'm simply presenting evidence of physical manifestations like voices, moving emf fields, balls of light, loud bangs, footsteps in empty buildings, and apparitions. The evidence is always about the phenomena itself, not the theory behind it. However, lacking any other explanation, ghosts fit the facts the best.
     
  19. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you think "ghosts" fit best? What else could it have been, that you've already ruled out?
     
  20. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Paranormal investigators routinely rule out other explanations. It's part of their job. They use induction and investigate other possibilities all the time. When no other explanation works, the paranormal is suspected. Here's an example of a scream in a sanitorium:



    Investigator Nick Groff on debunking mundane causes:

     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  21. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    No, you need to convince people here. It is you that is asserting all this stuff is real, not me. If you have a good case (i.e. you have evidence that has been been challenged and scrutinised so that alternative explanations can be ruled out) that should be easy for you to do, given that you say you have been researching all this for over ten years and have an EMF meter of your own. Can you really have researched EMF for a decade without ever having thought to check the frequency of the EMF emanations that you are picking up? Really?

    But indeed, it seems, for your example of the house with "no power" - except for the power to the TV set, which you forgot to mention - you cannot do this.

    Just as, when I posted the hoax background to some of your UFO photos, you had to admit they were bad examples.

    And just as, when James challenged your claims about ghosts being quantum "spin networks", you had to pretend it was just a joke.

    There seems to be a pattern here: whenever one of your assertions is probed, you cannot substantiate it. Instead, you flood the thread with more, very likely equally flimsy, examples.

    If I had been you I would have advanced my most solid case first and would have expected to be able to defend it, in depth, against sceptical challenege. But you, apparently, can't. Instead you demand that your challenger do all the work himself, to evaluate the validity of your chosen examples.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  22. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    No..you need to acquire your own information. You're the one who wants to know about all this. So go find out. I'm not playing your little game of 21 questions with you and my not doing that bullshit for you doesn't mean the evidence is flawed at all. Seems to me you are just building an excuse not to research this field of research. Like it all depended on me to do all your legwork. It doesn't. If you were authentically interested in all this you'd be researching it by now. But you're not. You're only interested in proving its all bunk. If that's your claim, then back it up.

    LOL! Every day's a new day for you isn't it? I already referred you 7 compelling cases of paranormal activity in that other thread. Conveniently though you're too scared or whatever about watching videos. So that's it. I made my case and you refuse to even look into it. I even gave you several examples of EMF measurements as you requested. But still you whined and bitched. That's the pattern of the blind skeptic who already knows all evidence is faked and that ghosts just don't exist. They make stupid excuses for not looking into the subject and so just remain totally ignorant about the whole subject.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  23. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    That is not how argument works and you know it. The one making the claim is the one who needs to back it up.

    You say you are an expert in this field. Ten years research, right? How is it that, after a decade of diligent work, you cannot deal with even my simple level of questions? You should be able to rattle off, from memory, details of at least half a dozen thoroughly investigated cases, explaining why my scepticism is ill-founded. Why can you not do this? What kind of "research" have you been doing all this time, then?
     

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