Why was Jesus executed? It doesn't make sense !

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Ted Grant II, May 17, 2017.

  1. Chado2423 Registered Member

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    If we are discussing a piece of literature I don't have to prove the truth of any of it anymore than I have to prove the existence of Hogwarts. Don't be a hypocrite! If you assume the literature to be fantasy, maintain that fantastical view.
     
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  3. Chado2423 Registered Member

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    Look, I am not here to be mocked. Keep the focus on the literature and don't make this about me.

    Do you have anything relevant to say about the question at hand, and NOT about me.

    I don't think I should need to explain myself here, but I was referring to the persistent theme of the character of Satan influencing the character of Judas. It is a little thing called "thematic interpretation." Please take a course in literature. Any course in literature, will do.

    Talk about the topic at hand, or leave me alone!

    Why was Jesus crucified according to the literature? Even, as I have shown non-biblical literature exists referencing the crucifixion.

    If you resort to making this about me, you ignore the topic of discussion and are not worthy of attention.

    When I said "intelligent", I wasn't using it in a degrading sense, and sense you are making it seem as such you are a their and a liar. I was simply referring to careful systematic deep study of recurring themes. It takes time to do a thematic study of any literature, but it can be done. In this case, we see the recurring theme of Satan's involvement behind the scenes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
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  5. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Is Satan more powerful than God?
     
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  7. Chado2423 Registered Member

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    You didn't read my follow up. That is kind, perhaps a little too kind. Apparently, you don't understand that a theist can use sarcasm too. Get over yourself.
     
  8. Chado2423 Registered Member

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    I am extremely perturbed by the foolishness here. My ten year old nephew is much more adult than some of you here.

    Are we going to discuss the actual question at hand or continue resorting to ridiculous behavior of mockery and personal insults?

    Who here wants to have an actual mature conversation?

    The topic of this conversation is not "How can we ridicule Chad?"!!!!!!
     
  9. Chado2423 Registered Member

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    Okay. So, now we're on topic. Sort of. This is good. [Technically speaking, it is a secondary issue, but, it is directly related, so I like it.]

    I love "on topic", [even sort of] because as is evidenced here, when people go off topic they occasionally become less than friendly and less than reasonable human beings and resort to behaving like toddlers and using unjustifiable name-calling and mockery. That's just something I had to get off my chest (but it is necessary to note, because I have only been respectful here, unlike many of you here.] I am a human being and you guys have been anything but behaving like a human. Is the Atheist motto "Ridicule, demean and mock anyone who is a theist!" If not, by your behavior, here, it ought to be! Because you have demonstrated it well! Now that that is off my chest...

    Okay moving on...

    From a literature standpoint this doesn't actually matter. If the works are supposed to be fiction it doesn't matter the nature of the power of the characters, just that they both have powers.

    Is Harry Potter more power than Voldamort? In terms of why anyone does anything, it doesn't matter. They both have powers. They both use their powers. They both can use their powers to do big things. Who is more powerful? It doesn't matter.

    What matters is which of them uses their power for their goals more intelligently. The one who prevails (good or evil) will be more careful at adapting the power in any situation.

    If we had nothing but the gospels, we could not decipher which power was more powerful. Only that according to the nature of the literary material both exist (as characters in the story.)

    [[But as I noted there are non-biblical antiquated texts that speak of the crucifixion as well, even by a skeptic! of Christianity [namely, Thallus], possibly as early as 52 A.D., so to consider that event itself fictional is hard to reconcile even from a non-biblical source! But, it actually does not matter here, as this is purely a side note from personal interest.]]

    If God and Satan are meant to be fictional characters, why am I a theist, the only one here in this conversation trying to examine the literature from that perspective? Isn't that just plain bizarre? I think so. I really think so.

    Satan, as a fictional character, has powers in the New Testament. But we cannot deduce from the text of only and solely the gospels how powerful that power is from that character. To do that, we would have to allow investigation of the Old Testament literature, as well as the remainder of the New Testament.

    Examining only the gospels in question, we cannot make that determination.

    Let's say, for sake of argument, we don't have anything to go by, except the gospels. In this hypothetical reality, we don't have any Old Testament (so no Isaiah), nor do we have the extra-biblical sources (so no Pliny the Younger, no Josephus, no Thallus and that's only mentioning a few...), and no Epistles of John, no Epistles of Paul, no Jude nor books of Timothy, and no Revelation.) All we got here is the four gospels. If you really want the works of the gospels to be fiction, you have to consider even the non-biblical sources referencing the crucifixion as fictional as well, otherwise you are a hypocrite and inconsistent.

    If the gospels is all we have to examine, we can see the theme of the character of Satan working behind the scenes. We can see this Satan character has powers including possession.

    We can also see that Jesus is the central character. We can see that this Jesus character also has powers. But, we cannot tell from the texts alone whichof the two is more powerful, though.

    If we then uncover the Old Testament literature, then we can discover that the Satan character must abide under the allowances by God, which is most clearly indicated in the first few chapters of Job.

    I'm not sure how one ought to percieve the nature of a fictional character's power vs. allowance of said power from another fictional character, but it seems that if one fictional character has to be allowed to use his power by another fictional character, the latter is most likely meant to be understood as more powerful, and this is probably what the author is trying to convey.

    But, please, for Hume's sake, everyone let's examine this STRICTLY from a literary perspective!

    Let's play nice, going forward and behave like mature human beings.

    I am not here to be an object of ridicule. I am here for a conversation. Can we have a mature conversation?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  10. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I dont understand Chad, if I may call you so, I did not think we were discussing litrature I dont consider the bible as literature, I thought it was a book fo religion.
    So if you want to discuss it as literature that is indeed another matter.
    However I dont see the point but then as I admitted I have no interest in literature.

    How so? I say what I mean I thought if nothing else that would be clear.

    I think it is fantasy. I thought I was very clear about that and that the evidence you presented was not evidence but heresay recorded years after in the bible..New Testament.

    Is it your view that we discuss it and it is fantasy so we see it as a literary work? ... but it then assumes another quality of a religious book if one uses it to support their world view.

    I am not trying to be confrontational I simply dont understand where you are coming from.


    I dont see the foolishness I am sorry.

    You appear to want to discuss the bible as a literary work and I for one ask about the credibility ...why is it foolish to ask about credibility...it would seem foolish not to determine credibility in any matter.

    If you insist on treating it as literature why this need to establish some historical credibility?... which I note simply does not exist.
    You say you come from one direction and yet you then try and slip the reference to a record in history you use to in effect say Jesus was real... that seems inconsistent do I miss something?

    I thought I was being mature and indeed polite and above all I thought my approach was mature.
    I try to write very simply so what I say is clear...
    I take time to think of simple words rather than use a word that may have some going to their dictionary.

    I too am here to chat and already thought we were having a rather nice chat and mature I thought.

    Do you mean by immature that if I cant talk about Jesus in glowing terms and indeed the whole concept that together with my belief that the story is mere fantacy that I am immature...?

    I certainly do not wish you to think I ridicule you but perhaps you shouild be really clear on what we discuss...You say literature well fair enough but really is the bible to be thought of as literature or as a holy book.

    I am confused. Are you into it as a fictional work of art unrelated to the religious implication...did you go to bible school to learn about a work of art or to learn about religion?

    You seem rather wrapped up in religion from what you say so far and thats ok but if you say you discuss literature does that not then hint that you regard the OP as somewhat fictional.

    I just think you are so wrapped up in your religion that you want to chat about it and somewhat establish it and then you do this sidestep of "we are only discussing literature".

    Let me ask you directly.

    Do you regard the New Testament as real in so far as it is written about someone who was presented as the son of God and that we have in history such a person that he lived and died and rose from the dead after three days of being dead?. Or do you regard that story as entirely fictional but as a story you want to investigate the plot and the characters?

    Sorry for lots of questions but I dont get to talk to theisits so I have many questions but they are very simple.

    If we discuss a fictional story from a literary view I confess that I have no interest... I see no point in considering what this person might do or why or what their motivation was etc. I have seen enough real life not to wish to read about stuff that is made up..truth is stranger than fiction they say and I agree...who needs fiction..someone with out a life in my view.

    Why did you go to University? to learn about the literary content of the bible or to learn about religion?

    Your style suggests you are or would like to be a preacher, which going to religious school would fit...I can understand preaching...it helps some folk... I dont think it deals in fact but certainly if very selective you can get some worthwhile things from the bible...I have...you can also get a lot of nonsense as well but if you are the preacher you only need to read the good bits with little fear that your church goers will actually read all of their bible I guess.

    I mate of mine was a tarot card reader and I challenged him for being a con artist.
    His reply surprised me, firstly he actually believes they work for him via some mystical power and secondly he is basically very honest..so as hard as it is to believe anyone could believe in tarot cards he really does...and its such a pity he is so clever in all areas..he could pull your car to bits, the motor, the wiring and put it bach all fixed...but as to the cards he said that by using the cards his clients were able to focus upon things that they may have been avoiding...so he shows a certain card and says that it indicates a problem in the future for that client and that problem wont go away...and then he says, the client may say "yes you are right I have not done my tax return" and they will act..anyone else telling them falls on deaf ears...or this card tells there is a lost soul that you need to find and the client will say "well I have not spoken to my son in years because we had a fall out" and because it was in the cards they act to put things right...do you see what I mean...I guess preaching would be similar... the machinery may be phoney but at least you get folk to focus on doing the right thing...I guess so many scriptures folk will find a message whereas if their lawer or accountant told them they would ignore the advice.


    Anyways try not to get upset as I said all folk are different and really I dont think anyone is mocking you and so many digs could be directed at me...If I think someone is having a go I try to ignore it after all they can think what they like about me... I must give a terrible impression out...and really most insults I receive contain an element of truth so no problem...my list of my faults will be longer than their list of my faults.

    Alex
     
  11. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    I don't understand. Do you think that we need to pretend the Bible is just literature in order to talk about Christianity in a mature way?
     
  12. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    I will. Be forewarned that I see gods and devils as an extrapolation of our understanding of man and nature. We need them to understand ourselves and reality.
     
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    Loud: Click and set volume to loud.

    Okay, then.

    Oh, right:

    As long as we understand what counts as on topic.

    (chortle!)​

    Meanwhile:

    Yes, as previously noted↑

    Satan, by both Scripture (Job 1.6-12)↱ and necessity of the Lord's scope and power, an instrument of God.

    —and you freaked out about↑

    Talk about the topic at hand, or leave me alone!

    —Satan is an instrument of God. That is to say, Satan does what God orders when the Lord is too cowardly to do it Himself (Job 1.6-12↱. Furthermore, no element of God's Universe might operate without His Will, else "God" is not God, e.g. no more the Alpha and Omega than the average gang boss who wants you to believe he is the beginning and end of all things for you.

    So ... now that the subject matter meets your personal approval, do you have anything to say about the subject that is on topic, such as Capracus↑ discussion of God's Will that you answered↑ and then pitched a tantrum ("Talk about the topic at hand, or leave me alone!")↑ when someone dared answer you↑? I mean, is that on topic enough, or does it not meet your special approval? Do you not like it enough? Is it not—

    —"literary" enough?

    It is an interesting lack of detail in this paragraph; Richard Carrier↗ in the Journal of Greco-Roman Christianity and Judaism, wrecked the Thallus argument several years ago. Then again, the Thallus argument is just a revival of a long-debunked trope hoping to rejuvenate the Eusebius argument as a response to the literary problem about the historicity of Jesus Christ. Eusebius and historicity, in turn, is an historical question I haven't heard much about for quite a while—(2000↗ ... 2001↗ ... 2002↗)—and Thallus isn't going to do much to change the literary outlook.

    To the other, like I said, it is an interesting lack of detail, so it is unclear what significance your invocation of a weatherbeaten, debunked trope holds in your patchwork "literary" framework.
    ____________________

    Notes

    Carrier, Richard. "Thallus and the Darkness at Christ's Death". Journal fo Greco-Roman Christianity and Judaism, vol. 8. 2011-2012. JGRChJ.net. 20 February 2018. http://bit.ly/2HwWcRW
     
    Xelasnave.1947 likes this.
  14. Michael 345 In China - finding my way :) Valued Senior Member

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    My understanding is they were written and PRESENTED as REAL

    Like the horoscope stars and snake oil claims there is a smidgen of truth for the credulous to latch onto

    Using the same gullibility gene in gullible people the writers of the bible pulled off a monumental con on the local population

    The smooth voice of authority with the "would I lie to you" face they set back science and humanity by a few thousand years and opened up the flood gates of cons which still continues today

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    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  15. Chado2423 Registered Member

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    • As long as we understand what counts as on topic.

    My name is not in the question. I AM NOT THE TOPIC!


     
  16. Chado2423 Registered Member

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    This doesn't mean we cannot examine them AND THE NON-BIBLICAL SOURCES as though they are fictional accounts, even if only for the sake of an argument, in order to make a literary deduction about the purported event from a LITERATURE perspective. This is not an unreasonable request.
     
  17. Chado2423 Registered Member

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    Which part of the brain makes you think that it is humanitarian to be unkind to people who are simply trying to engage in conversation? Which part makes you think it is logical and reasonable and morally justifiable to make personal attacks with some one you disagree with on any given topic?

    TELL ME THAT!
     
  18. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    From a literature perspective, Jesus had to die because God required a suitable blood sacrifice to atone for the "transgression" in the Garden of Eden.
     
  19. Michael 345 In China - finding my way :) Valued Senior Member

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    Threads wander around all over the place and you seem to have made yourself the topic by moving the thread title
    Why was Jesus executed? It doesn't make sense !
    and
    the what if? nature of the original post into the realm of the style of writing

    Look at the threads title - re read the original post - respond with a suitable explanation

    Try discussion not argument please

    A LITERATURE perspective is not what is being requested

    So yes it is

    So dish it out

    Suggestion - discuss whatever it is you are ranting about with him and stop posting here

    But can't take it

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    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  20. Chado2423 Registered Member

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    • I don't understand Chad, if I may call you so,
    Chad is my first name.

    • I did not think we were discussing literature I don't consider the bible as literature, I thought it was a book fo religion. So if you want to discuss it as literature that is indeed another matter.However I don't see the point but then as I admitted I have no interest in literature.
    A definition of "literature" can be found here: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literature


    It is an irrelevancy if such collections of literary writings are used religiously or not. The gospels are literature as they fit the first two definitions provided.

    • I think it is fantasy. I thought I was very clear about that and that the evidence you presented was not evidence but heresay recorded years after in the bible...

    • Is it your view that we discuss it and it is fantasy so we see it as a literary work? ... but it then assumes another quality of a religious book if one uses it to support their world view.
    This is conflation of religious practice with debate of literary interpretation on a single topic. No. I am saying, that for argument's sake we can both treat it as fictional literature (AND TO BE CONSISTENT WE HAVE TO INCLUDE THE NON-BIBLICAL ACCOUNTS AS FICTIONAL TOO!), and see what turns in our interpretation.I am not trying to be confrontational I simply don't understand where you are coming from.Fiction or not, it doesn't matter. Let's figure out the answer to the question from the text material. The point is the topic you are bringing up, the historicity of the gospels is best placed in a proper forum such as this one: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/th...lity-of-the-resurrection.142956/#post-3240215 Here, we don't have to worry about that. We only have to determine how to make sense of the crucifixion (whether the accounts are fictional or not, is a side issue to making sense of the actual narrative.) It is a secondary debate and belongs in its proper threads.

    • You appear to want to discuss the bible as a literary work and I for one ask about the credibility ...why is it foolish to ask about credibility...it would seem foolish not to determine credibility in any matter.
    You are claiming to consider it as fictional and ask for credibility. This is inconsistent.

    To this end, I hope you will humor me and bend a little bit and read this following article by an ATHEIST author regarding "the Christ Myth Theory": https://strangenotions.com/an-atheist-historian-examines-the-evidence-for-jesus-part-1-of-2/
    • If you insist on treating it as literature why this need to establish some historical credibility?... which I note simply does not exist.
    You brought that up, first, not me, by asking about the timing! So you are guilty of your own accusation.
    • You say you come from one direction and yet you then try and slip the reference to a record in history you use to in effect say Jesus was real... that seems inconsistent do I miss something?
    YES YOU DID! I did not say that at all. I merely noted extra-biblical sources that reference the crucifixion. I only stated that such extra-biblical sources were "interesting", "worth noting" or "something to think about." (For me the reality of Jesus does not matter in order to read the works from a fantastical persuasion. I'm not asking for that. I also tried to note, that I am happy to discuss those types of issue on a personal basis. These types of beliefs and determinings are not pertinent here, as that it is a matter of personal inclinations. He can be a fictional character, and we can sill see what they authors are trying to mean by the narrative of the crucifixion. This is my point.)
    • I thought I was being mature and indeed polite and above all I thought my approach was mature.I try to write very simply so what I say is clear...
    I have ADHD, so I apologize, sometimes this disroder gets the better of me. I don't know exactly who said what exactly without re-reading the posts. Instead, I just focus on the sentences themselves, and don't really worry too much about who exactly is saying what. But if you read the postings by others here, it should be quite clear why I called attention to this.

    • I take time to think of simple words rather than use a word that may have some going to their dictionary.
    All the words I have used in this discussion can be found in many free dictionaries online, so their definitions are not uneasily accessible. I have not used any words that have to be found in free dictionaries online. I also don't think I used any overly complicated terms.

    • I too am here to chat and already thought we were having a rather nice chat and mature I thought.
    I must apologize. Again, I was referring to the entirety of the thread. I wasn't trying to single anyone in particular out (as others have done with me), just making the observation of the whole thread. Go read comments by others, and you will see what I mean.

    • Do you mean by immature that if I cant talk about Jesus in glowing terms and indeed the whole concept that together with my belief that the story is mere fantacy that I am immature...?
    You can. This is permissible. My point was that I "Chad" am not personally the subject of the topic of this question. And this is why I am trying to get you to understand that my personal belief on the topic of the gospels as reliable or unreliable is secondary and not what this question addresses. That debate again belongs here: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/th...lity-of-the-resurrection.142956/#post-3240215

    • I certainly do not wish you to think I ridicule you but perhaps you shoud be really clear on what we discuss...You say literature well fair enough but really is the bible to be thought of as literature or as a holy book.
    We CAN set the argument of "Holy Book" aside, and just focus on the contents. This is what I am aiming for. This way, you can maintain your skepticism, and I can maintain my faith, and we can actually talk about the written words themselves irrespective of faith in them or not. It is not a ludicrous request.

    • I am confused. Are you into it as a fictional work of art unrelated to the religious implication...did you go to bible school to learn about a work of art or to learn about religion?You seem rather wrapped up in religion from what you say so far and thats ok but if you say you discuss literature does that not then hint that you regard the OP as somewhat fictional. I just think you are so wrapped up in your religion that you want to chat about it and somewhat establish it and then you do this sidestep of "we are only discussing literature".
    This is conflation of my personal beliefs with the actual contents of the work and is about me, NOT the topic. I will be happy to discuss this issue personally.

    Let me ask you directly. Do you regard the New Testament as real in so far as it is written about someone who was presented as the son of God and that we have in history such a person that he lived and died and rose from the dead after three days of being dead?. Or do you regard that story as entirely fictional but as a story you want to investigate the plot and the characters?
    Sorry for lots of questions but I dont get to talk to theisits so I have many questions but they are very simple.

    Personal questions may be directed to my email at chadfisher2423@gmail.com or you may send me a message. (I don't have anything to hide, but they are personal issues and don't reflect the topic of this discussion.)
    • If we discuss a fictional story from a literary view I confess that I have no interest... I see no point in considering what this person might do or why or what their motivation was etc. I have seen enough real life not to wish to read about stuff that is made up..truth is stranger than fiction they say and I agree...who needs fiction..someone with out a life in my view.
    Again, the proper forum for discussing the historicity of the gospels probably should be placed in a thread like this one:
    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/th...lity-of-the-resurrection.142956/#post-3240215

    As I am new here, I haven't gotten around to putting my 2 cents in there, yet, but I will eventually. For now, I am happy to respond to these types of questions on a personal basis if you message me, or allow permission for me to message you.

    • Why did you go to University? to learn about the literary content of the bible or to learn about religion?
    To my understanding my name is not in the question of this thread. Again, any personal questions can be directed to my email at chadfisher2423@gmail.com or you message me here.

    • Your style suggests you are or would like to be a preacher...
    Personal questions can be directed to my email: chadfisher2423@gmail.com or you may message me.

    • If I think someone is having a go I try to ignore it after all they can think what they like about me...
    Well, your view and my view differs here: I shed the light on ridiculous behavior, and I don't ignore it. I don't act like a bystander when someone is being a bully of any kind, even in words on a forum or on social media, neither toward me, nor toward anyone else.

    http://www.drwoliver.com/newstories/bullying.htm tells kids to "If you're being bullied: Be assertive, look the bully in the eye and tell him or her to stop." I think adults should do the same on cyberspace!
     
  21. Chado2423 Registered Member

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    • Try discussion not argument please.
    Semanticism.

    This article explains the intended usage:

    http://www.differencebetween.net/language/difference-between-argument-and-debate/

    In this context, as this is a debate (see here: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/debate) about a particular topic, I am following their definition here:

    "The noun ‘argument’ means in technical terms statements, reasoning or evidence presented by someone in written or spoken form that support something, such as a particular opinion."

    Also, go back and read the comments by some of the other people in this thread, I am NOT the ones ridiculing people and ergo making this an argument by this definition of the term: "an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one." as shown here: https://www.google.com/search?q=argument&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-ab


    Here, I am using the second definition: "a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong."

    In the future, please for sake of politeness don't intentionally misappropriate my intended usage of a term with multiple definitions. If you don't know, ask, and I will do the same. It is a common courtesy (or at least it used to be) in a discussion such as these.


    • A literature discussion is not what is being requested.
    The actual question is "Why was Jesus executed, it doesn't make sense?"

    Without any literary writings of this event, whether it happened or not, we have no way of answering this question or even formulating such a question. It is exactly because we do have these written accounts that we can make this question in the first place. It is not a ludicrous request to treat written material as literature.

    So I disagree with your conclusion.


    Since the report is in a literary narrative as well as antiquated non-biblical written sources, we can treat the narrative as literature, because that is what it is!

    "The gospels are very peculiar types of literature. They're not biographies." --
    Paula Fredriksen: William Goodwin Aurelio Professor of the Appreciation of Scripture, Boston University (quoted from https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/gospels.html)
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  22. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I am not sure you get what I am saying and you need not reply to this....You seemed to claim the biblical accounts are real so I say they are suspect as they come from heresay.
    So I ask for proof basically.
    You say we can treat it as fiction for the purpose of having a literary discussion.
    I have no interest in litrature my only interest is where did the fantasy come from and do Christians understand what they rely upon is highly suspect and almost certainly not a true account of what Jesus said etc.

    Treating it as literature to me is a ploy to somewhat promote the Christian faith which frankly I consider to be dishonest or an attempt to lend weight to a concept that has no basis in fact.

    Is the Jesus story fact or fiction needs to be determined.

    If fact I do not see the necessity for a literature discussion and all that is required is an analysis of the evidence for the story, which being entirely heresay suggests there is no reliable evidence...there is no literature here and any attempt to introduce literature can only cloud the issue which is a determination of the evidence as to its reliability and credibility...Clearly there is no evidence whatsoever and going Hmmmm really does not come into it...

    And so I guess that we have no other option than to treat the story as fictional and review it as literature...fair enough...but for me I am not interested in what I see as a back door attempt to preach the Jesus story.

    You avoid questions that would certainly reveal your motivation and avoid them saying they are too personal I find evasive... I find your response un necessarily evasive...for example my question as to why you went to bible school, university I think you said, is a reasonable question and bears heavily on if you are fair dinkum about your claim that you want to discuss literature...

    Anyways I am not interested in treating the Jesus story as literature and frankly I doubt if that is really your game given that you try to slip in what you regard as historical facts that support the Jesus story.

    This is a discussion forum and the rules really dont exclude anything I raise.

    Topics wander about the place and my wandering takes me to a place you want dealt with in another place...why not deal with my questions with out the fuss...and frankly Chad you really seem to me like many Christians who tend to be un necessarily evasive because they have a game plan in mind that often reveals itself later down the track...I am suspicious that someone who went to bible university says their interest is entirely literature...if you came out and said that you sort bible school out to understand literature that would be one thing but you wont say that not because its personal but because I suspect your bible school attendance was motivated by your religious beliefs.

    That to me indicates that someone is rather serious about religion as opposed to literature and that presumed seriousness has me questioning what is your game when you want to treat the Jesus story as perhaps fictional, with historic references that make you go Hmmmmm, but as a work of literature.

    All I can add is Hmmmmmm.

    And you make the offer to contact you for a personal discussion and I question your motives here...those repeated offers come across as spam to me...if you cant answer any of my questions here because they are personal why would you then answer them via email...does email make them now not personal.

    You seem like a preacher to me trying to prospect for clients.

    Are you a preacher or not?

    This admission suggests that you have an axe to grind as it is unthinkable that who says what is not important...who says what is not important because you know the message you want to send and certainly you will not let that mission be sidetracked by mere identities that you regard as un important.

    Chad I was not suggesting that you were guilty of using big words...I have no problem with big words my vocabulary is rather high...my point was about me and that I go to a great effort to speak simply...I was not having a go at you but pointing out that I really hoped my effort to be simple left my meaning entitely clear to you and others...you can explore the depths of both your and my vocabulary that is not an issue but I was not having a go at you.

    I question why.

    Its a holy book or it is not.

    How can you even suggest we can focus on content without qualification of the meaning of the book to those who use it...we can not and your determination to avoid a relevant qualification suggests you have a hidden game plan....

    Chad you avoid answering the simplest of questions saying they are personal and yet you then post your email on a public forum...I think there is an inconsitency right there and frankly posting your email smacks of spamming. ..you could have suggested a personal message via this forum which certainly would be more consistent with your concern about privacy.

    You seem like you are seeking clients for a ministry to me...

    My comment was about how I treat insults not how I deal with bullies.

    Chad it is indeed a pleasure to talk to you.

    However as I said literature is not of interest to me and frankly I really do not think it is of interest to you.

    I think you are a preacher looking to build your flock...and good luck to you...but although this thread is not about you from my view you dont seem to be interested in the literature.

    Alex
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  23. Michael 345 In China - finding my way :) Valued Senior Member

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