Why the West is afraid of China?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Saint, May 30, 2021.

  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    scorpius:

    Can you please explain the advantages that the Chinese system of continuous one-party government with unelected leaders has over the US democratic system in which all citizens freely (at least in principle) get to elect their leaders?

    Can you please explain why the Chinese government feels the need to shut down all pro-democracy movements in the country (Hong Kong being the most obvious current example)? Tell us why this is a good thing.

    Also, I'm guessing that the Chinese people aren't allowed by their government to read sciforums. Can you explain why that is a good thing?

    Thanks.
     
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  3. Sherlock Holmes Registered Member

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    In a word - geopolitics.
     
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  5. scorpius a realist Valued Senior Member

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    US is no democracy its Oligarchy of super rich,who control both parties and work to enrich the richest while ignoring the poor.
    Look up americas worst cities or neigborhoods on YT,,if thats result o democracy China dont need it,their system works better.



    Chinese can read anything they want anywhere,just like we do. Surprise huh?

    However FB and Google isnt alowed in China bc they refuse to play by their rules ie No HATE posts allowed.
    Most chinese dont care what BS western msm post,,95% of chinese are happy w their Gov. Acordin to Harward.
    Im only here to correct krp that many brainwashed americans Canadians and huge number of G7 people believe

    CCP leaders are elected based on past performance aka meritocracy of serving their comunity
    Maybe thats why it caled comunism?
    Only the best of the best become the leaders
    And yes chinese can and do critisize their gov.thats why its so sucesful



    HK gov while under british rule managed to brainwash its young people to think CCP is bad and US democracy is better,,wrong as the history and China economic miracle proves.

    Destroying property and kiling burning people alive is no democracy its terrorism created by CIA paid gangsters like they do in many other countries
    .imo chinese police is way too gentle w such scum.

     
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  7. scorpius a realist Valued Senior Member

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    Btw Covid probably comes from US biowarfare lab
    And US is tryin to divert attention from it by continuosly blamin China

    "Repeating the lies often enough people will believe its truth,
    German propaganda minister,,,Goebells





    Not this time,tho
     
  8. candy Valued Senior Member

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    Scorpius
    I strongly doubt that the people of Hong Kong agree with you. They are being imprisoned for daring to exercise free speech.
     
  9. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Very funny.

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  10. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    No. While the US democracy is imperfect, it is still a democracy. China, obviously, is not a democracy.

    I tend to agree with Winston Churchill: democracy is the worst form of government, apart from all the other forms that have been tried.

    It's funny that you mention oligarchy in the US, though. China has embraced capitalism just as much as the US has, in recent years. The leaders of the CCP are doing rather nicely for themselves, when it comes to being super rich etc. Why are you not concerned about a Chinese oligarchy?
    It depends what you value. China's system works very well for some of its citizens and not very well at all for others.

    I see. Chinese people can read anything they want anywhere - other than Google and Facebook anywhere in China.

    Congratulations. You refuted your own claim in the very next sentence after you posted it.

    Have they got you so brainwashed that you didn't notice that? Or are you paid to write this rubbish?
    They are particularly worried by "hate" directed at the CCP. And "hate" in that context is very widely interpreted to mean "anything the CCP doesn't like posted about it, its activities, its policies or its leaders".
    Hardly surprising. It's hard to miss something when you're unaware that it exists, or when you've never seen it. Even harder to miss something that you're told repeatedly is likely to harm you.
    I see. Are you paid to do this, then, or do you just feel it is your patriotic duty (or both)?
    Ah. Meritocracy.

    Who gets to judge past performance and "merit"? Not the general public, that's for sure. Because that would be a democracy.
    Really?

    Do you think that that Xi Jinping got the top job because he is the "best of the best"? Or could it have something to do with his loyalty to the CCP, to his parent's connections to the CCP, to his political networking, and so on?

    What is he the "best of the best" at? What are his particular areas of expertise, and how did he demonstrate them?

    Who selected him on "merit"?
    I see. Has China ever removed a citizen's posts in Weibo, say, for criticising the government? Why would they do that, if it makes the government so successful?
    It looks like the CCP is beating that out of the people of Hong Kong - the ones who are choosing to stay rather than leave, at least.

    Has the CCP removed any freedoms the citizens of Hong Kong had while under British rule, since the handback to China? If so, why have they done that?
    Is that the economic miracle that has nothing to do with a Chinese oligarchy?
    Have the Chinese police in Hong Kong ever done anything wrong? If so, what action was taken against the wrongdoers?
    Which one? Where?

    Why were the first reported outbreaks of Covid-19 in China?

    Was this the work of the CIA?

    How do you know about this? What are your sources for this information?
    Why has China not been entirely open about the activities of its lab in Wuhan? Why does it not allow open access to the lab, so that the possibility that the virus was released from there (even if accidentally)?
     
  11. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Shouldn't this China propaganda thread just be closed for proselytizing?
    Does anyone really think arguing with China propagandists is any more effective than arguing with Russian bots?
     
  12. foghorn Registered Senior Member

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    Or, any more effective than arguing with some of the more zealot god believers on this site.
     
  13. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Sure. Proselytizing is proselytizing.
     
  14. foghorn Registered Senior Member

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    Yep, and some zealots are blind to their own zealousness and wouldn't recognise themselves as such.
     
  15. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Sure. And some people like to lump every theist in with the most preachy, zealous people for no reason but their own bias.
     
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  16. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    Probably because all the people you describe believe in something that is fundamentally irrational, even if they are annoying to varying degrees.
     
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  17. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, bigots often do find some justification for lumping a wide variety of people into a single group they can disparage. Thanks for the demonstration.
     
  18. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    Nice illogical leap. Would you consider it bigoted to state that people who believe in leprechauns, werewolves, or the Loch Ness monster are fundamentally irrational? They are definitely irrational beliefs: each are myths accompanied by a lack of physical evidence.
     
  19. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Just as soon as those who believe in leprechauns, werewolves, or the Loch Ness monster make up the vast majority of people in the world (~80%) then we can talk about it as if it's not a faulty comparison and straw man. Not an illogical leap when you continue to demonstrate your propensity for lumping ever more disparate people together in hasty generalizations.
     
  20. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    2,594
    No, we can talk about it now. The number of people who believe in a myth doesn't add to its legitimacy. For example, just look at the numbers of irrational people who believe in the false myth that Donald Trump won the 2020 election. OWNED.

    With that done, go ahead and explain how any god myth is different from or more credible than the myths of leprechauns, werewolves, and the Loch Ness monster. Oh -- they're not? Thought so. Next.

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    Last edited: Aug 7, 2021
  21. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Never implied that number of people who believe adds legitimacy (that would obviously be an argumentum ad populum). I literally told you that it was a faulty comparison. Almost every culture in human history has independently originated some form of religion. The same cannot be said of your straw men. Even the number of people who believe Trump won is minuscule compared to ~80% of the entire world population.

    Sorry, didn't realize I was speaking to a child.

    If you're so eager to proclaim victory, I guess you need it. Congratulations, young lad.
     
  22. Facial Valued Senior Member

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    One can distill the difference to the following bite-sized philosophies:

    The Chinese perspective: the people who are most ethical and fit to lead are not necessarily those who are the most popular.
    The West's perspective: the people who are most ethical and fit to lead are generally those who are the most popular.

    Call me a heretic, but I believe both systems can work (or not work). Whether taken as a subset or a whole, human folly and virtue continue to exist.
     
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  23. scorpius a realist Valued Senior Member

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    One only need to visit China to see how well it works as compared to western style democrazy.



    Majority of westerners US,Canada,UK ,Aus and France have been brainwashed by our Msm to hate the word comunism.
    America needs an enemy to justify military expenditures,and steal other countries riches n natural resources,,Iraq ,Iran ,Lybia,Syria,Venezuela Agfanistan,Vietnam
    While acusing China and Russia of doing just that

     

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