why muslims fast the islamic way?, and how their fasting services the human Good?

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by cleese, Aug 18, 2010.

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how you rate the main point of this thread (fasting)?

  1. this thread is logic and convincing

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  2. this thread either not logic , or not convincing

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  1. cleese Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    69
    a call for non-muslims to try fasting the islamic way their selves

    sirs
    may it be a blessing and happy Ramadan for you all
    in brief, since this the second year for me after knowing all these facts about fasting the islamic way , i am asking all the non-muslims to try fasting the islamic way them selves after reading brief rereach . and then to furnish us with their own experience .
    not for one day , or few days. but for the rest of the month .
    thanks
     
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  3. cleese Registered Senior Member

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    Ramadan is just a few days far.
    how it is a pleasing month for all you .
     
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  5. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    More evil (starvation) to make us appreciate the good? What a perverse and disgusting fellow is this God of yours!
     
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  7. Epictetus here & now Registered Senior Member

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    Fact: ask any grocer or supermarket manager. More food is consumed in Mohammedan countries during Ramadan than at any other time of the year. People wake up especially early, gorge themselves mostly with sweet, sugary, syrupy food and drink, self-righteously go without food from dawn to dusk, griping and carping about it the whole time. There are more fender benders and violent altercations than usual because they are 'fasting'. Then they go home and gorge again, always eating before they pray, mind you; those who smoke do so like chimneys. I have heard of whole goats being consumed by a group of friends to make up for the fast, and because they "deserved" a reward for being so holy.

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    Give me a break!

    I spent time in Saudi Arabia where we foreign infidel employees had to sit in a small, stuffy room to eat if we insisted on having lunch during Ramadan, so as not to 'offend' the Holy Saudis. We were told that anyone caught smoking in the bathrooms, outside or any place would be 'terminated' immediately. (I think they brought in some Hunter-Killers, just in case). One of my mates, a smoker, remarked, "Um, tell me again, who's fasting here? Us or them?"

    To top it off, throughout the fasting month, I 'd happen down the corridor where the Big Saudi Bosses worked. Having only eaten a light, quick lunch and terrified to light one up, I could easily smell their cigarette smoke and the aroma of coffee!
     
  8. cleese Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    69
    epictitus
    saudi arabia does not represent an islamic way of life at all. kindly be smarter, and distinguish between Islam and Muslims , christianity and christians.
    they are totally different two things.
    principles will not work untill they become a man, belivies will not change any thing untill they become behavior.
    i have red once the following saying, which can perfectly solve the dilemma you are facing :
    every book
    no matter how perfectly its pages are written
    misses one last page
    you write it​
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2012
  9. Sock puppet path GRRRRRRRRRRRR Valued Senior Member

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    3,112
    Muslims are just as hypocritical in other places, I worked with muslim immigrants from Somalia, and Kosovo during ramadan one year and can confirm what Epictetus said. All holier than thou during the day and gorging themselves before and after.
     
  10. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    51,799
    That's the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. Islam is defined by those who practice it, anything else is just an abstraction.
     
  11. Epictetus here & now Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    554
    Thanks for the support, gentlemen. What Sock puppet path and Spidergoat say is true, so no need to repeat their statements.

    Friend Cleese:If you want to believe the Saudis don't represent true Islam, that's your business, but I am sure Saudis and the Saudi government see themselves and set themselves up as the paragon of Islamic virtue. In every other predominantly Mohammedan country I've been to, women go without veils, if they like, beer and pork are readily available (available enough) and shops don't shut down five times a day for prayer. I figured that it's not so in Saudi Arabia because if the"Holy Land" doesn't stick to the program, who will? The feel obliged to set an example, so whether I wanted to or not, I had to tolerate their ways. (We joked that Saudi Arabia is the most convenient shopping destination in the world - everything opens six times a day!)

    And friend cleese, a friendly warning, don't get caught saying:

    "Saudi Arabia does not represent an Islamic way of life at all. kindly be smarter, and distinguish between Islam and Muslims," in Saudi Arabia! As you are a Mohammedan, they'd' have your head. I am not joking. :|
     
  12. cleese Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    69
    once again sir
    saudi arabia as a governance system, does not represent the islamic model at all. at all. you may be able to understand that, you may be not, up to you. and that is what i am going to clarify plainly in the second part of the comparison.
    there is a huge difference between a holy place "Mecca & Medena" in a hand, and the behavior of their people in the other hand. i petty your eyes that you can't see that difference.
    if you can not differentiate between the totally different things, you will never be able to use your mind in a simply distinguishing between:
    1 - a code of conduct of a surgeon,
    and
    2 - his actual behavior before the table of surgery.
    one last thing epictitus, there is no such country called "mouhamadian country" or mouhamadian belief. prophet mohammad is just an individual. when you talk about this religion call it with its name : Islam
     
  13. Sock puppet path GRRRRRRRRRRRR Valued Senior Member

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    3,112
    People and movements are judged by their deeds, not by what they claim, it has always been so in human history. Saudi arabia is where all muslim hearts and eyes turn 5 times a day no matter where on the planet. If you can't see that I pity your eyes and/or your deceitful heart.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  14. Epictetus here & now Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    554
    Yeah. Whatever... to get back to your original topic: fasting is a joke. It does not help Muslims because starving yourself is not the way to spiritual advancement. Good actions is the only way. What I said about Muslims actually eating more during Ramadan is true throughout the Muslim world and among Muslims wherever they may live.

    If you personally benefit from fasting, that's great, but I doubt if you do. Among all the Muslims I have ever observed (hundreds and hundreds) I have seen that fasting just makes them cranky and self righteous.

    Sometimes I will happen to drink or eat in front of them. I don't mean to be inconsiderate, it's just that Islam is not my religion and has nothing to do with me, so over a month's time I simply forget that it's still Ramadan. When I do this invariably some fasting fool will say, "Hey, I'm fasting!" I am tempted to say, "Well, you may as well stop and have a sandwich right now, because you are thinking self-righteous, holier-than-thou angry thoughts about me and so you're not truly fasting at all!" Even Jesus, who is an Islamic prophet by the way, but I can never get Muslims to admit this, says, "The kind of fasting I want is for you to be kind to your neighbor."

    What I don't get is this attitude that because you are fasting, I can't be seen eating. If you don't want to see non-Muslims eating, stay in your house with the window shades down. This is our world too. Again Nabi Isa says, "When you fast, wash your face, and comb your hair and do not in no way show you are fasting. Those who put on a show have fasting and appearing holy to their neighbors have had their reward. Rather fast in private and you will be rewarded (by God) in private."
     
  15. cleese Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    69
    is starving the purpose of fasting the Islamic way?
    i guess you have never red any thing about the practices of the special forces. fasting the islamic way, pushes the human limits further. it trains you on times of adversity, while you are still living the time of comfort.
    it trains you to manage your self desires willingly, to be able to control your self under pressure.
    try to understand the purpose of the article.
    then distinguish between a diet regime, and the practitioner of that regime. benefiting from the regime (the code of conduct, or the manual) depends on the faithfulness of the practitioner, how strong his will is and his steadiness before the seductions of food when hunger comes.
    if you can not understand this simple explanation, kindly save your comments, because the problem is not that you are not convinced. the problem is that you do not want to understand.
    it is your freedom of will any way, same case with the Muslim who eats more during Ramadan while he is supposed to eat much less.
    the theoretical "code of conduct" & the behavior of the practitioner. it is freedom of will and choice
    as to saudi arabia representing the holy land or the has the holy places. does this accordingly mean that its people represent "holy people" ?! ... silly.
    best regards
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2012
  16. cleese Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    69
    may it be a pleasent Ramadan 2013
    thanks for your attention to this thread
     
  17. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,364
    This is nothing short of a beautiful explanation of fasting. I have two close friends who are Muslim, they moved a few years ago from Syria to America, and they fast and have showed me the importance if fasting and prayer. As a Christian, this is an area I fall short in. Fasting is designed to cleanse us of our attachments to earthly things...even food. It can be spiritually rewarding and physically healthy to fast! And ppl from all different faith beliefs and "religions" fast as to grow spiritually and physically. Fasting can be a humbling experience for anyone because it reveals who you are when you remove things from your life that you "think" you "need."

    Thank u for this thoughtful post!

    This ^^

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  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    24,300
    Ramadan moves around the year, too - that holiday hits in an Arctic Circle community in the summer, the Muslim population will face a choice. Along with figuring out which way to bow to Mecca (the Mercator projection line, or the Great Circle - and either one, which way of the two possible on the sphere ?), how to handle the sun and moon setting times when in orbit or on an airplane, and so forth. Like the rest of them, they run into a physical reality their prophet failed to anticipate and start having problems.

    Where I live, about 45 north latitude, we have non-milk drinkers walking around in full hoodies ankle length, no sun-exposed skin at all, all summer. No wonder they have such bad teeth - they're running a vitamin deficiency of serious clinical import. If they follow that up with fasting all day for a month - that is not a good way to do things in this climate.
     
  19. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,087
    That's an odd contrast considering the prejudice to which you descend thereafter:

    It is quite clear: you are a bigot. Fraggle accurately points out that your religion is no less violent than the rest.

    Christianity?

    You have demonstrated Fraggle's point for him.
     

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