Why Is There Anything, Rather Than Nothing?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Patriot, Oct 14, 2004.

  1. kazakhan Registered Abuser Registered Senior Member

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    No movement of what? The universe? A non-moving universe is still something. When nothing moves we get something? And this nothing is moving in respect to what exactly more nothing

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  3. extrasense Registered Senior Member

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    the fact is, that something exists, occupying time and space.
    The question itself is the proof.

    Why does the existing stuff exist? Because its causes existed in the past. And this was true at any point, while anything existed.

    Has ever existed a point, such that nothing existed? NO, that would be a self-contradiction.

    So, the nothing can not be !

    e

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    Last edited: May 29, 2005
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  5. seminole333 Registered Member

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    If nothing never exists, does that mean that everything always exists?
     
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  7. Yorda Registered Senior Member

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    Without motion, there's no universe. Nothing. Motion of what? Motion of nothing, in fact, since mind doesn't really move. It is always here and now. But it believes it moves, projected into the future to reach its goal of absolute peace (Nothingness), and restrained by a memory which it doesn't want to lose (universe). All energetic motions in the universe are only psychological ones.
     
  8. Onefinity Registered Senior Member

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    Maybe Void = Fullness.
     
  9. extrasense Registered Senior Member

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    Can everything be nothing?
    Not as we exist, certainly no!
    Could everything be nothing?
    It would be unknowlable, as the nothing has no knowlege.

    There is nothing to know about nothing!
    And it is good to know.

    e

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    Last edited: May 30, 2005
  10. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    To answer the original question:

    It's because of your mom Beavis.
     
  11. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Or perhaps void and fullness are two necessary parts of the same concept.

    Perhaps there should be rules as to the formation of proper concepts. One being that we should not forumulate concepts like "war" outside the context of the continuum of peace and war, which should itself have a name and be the focus of comprehension. Fundamental conceptual building blocks?

    Perhaps it's that these concepts respresenting the two extremes are the building blocks like those in DNA that must go together in only the way that nature allows in order to function. People can however in reality, allow these blocks to be put together in ways that skew perspective, stacking the deck in favor of their apparently unwitting presumption.

    So like the blocks of DNA have 64 words with which to express genetic instruction, perhaps there could be identified a set of conceptual "words" (or classesl thereof), representative of "potentially coherent thought" or "requisite for conveying meaning".

    Just passing thoughts. Off-kilter I know, but perhaps a thread of value in that line of thinking.
     
  12. extrasense Registered Senior Member

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    A group of consepts of nothing depend on what the corresponding concept of thing is.

    These are different concepts than nothing as noanything

    Think of nothing as an idea

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    Last edited: May 30, 2005
  13. Onefinity Registered Senior Member

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    I guess what I meant was that SOMETHING is SHAPED NOTHINGNESS.

    Now, to your idea of building block concepts. I have developed such a list. It is more than 250 of what appear to be opposite-pairs such as "high-low." These are to be taken as single units called "differelations." But there is a hierarchy to them because some of them are needed for others to exist. For example, for there to be high-low, there must be an up-down or a more-less (depending on context). In order for there to be an up-down, there has to be push-pull. Etc. It all appears to boil down to a few "irreducible" differelations (same-different, relation-isolation among them). I'm still mapping them out.
     
  14. water the sea Registered Senior Member

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    A brilliant point, always to be kept in mind.

    Excellent.

    It all goes to the systemic understanding of meaning and how an element has its meaning only through its position and relations to other elements of a system.

    It is possible, however, to shift elements around -- but in this, their meaning will become skewed, or even lost.


    Secondly, there are several principles by which concepts are organized in our cognition, the most frequent ones are:

    1. grouping by similarity (similarity of substance, form, color, ...),

    2. grouping by economy (we only have as many categories as needed; eg. we don't have 20 kinds of snow as such a distinction isn't necessary here),

    3. grouping by hierarchy (animal>dog>German Sheperd),

    4. grouping by the minimax principle (to use a level of abstraction on which we can achieve encompassing the most information using as little cognitive effort as possible).
     
  15. Jaredster Registered Senior Member

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    50
    The universe exsists because it is its own justification for exsisting.

    In regards to itself it is real.
     
  16. extrasense Registered Senior Member

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    551
    justification? Universe does not need justification, and does not consider any reasons. It does not have any external cause either, only internal casuality.

    In regards? to itself? - this means nothing to me.

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  17. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    I've been thinking a lot about this kind of thing lately, but it's difficult to explain my thoughts.

    I ponder: For each established dichotomy, does each state exist without the other to complement it?

    Should we not name the dichotomy itself, and then discuss its extremes in terms of the dichotomy, rather that just a discussion of preference regarding either extreme?

    Without something, the concept of nothingness cannot be.

    (didn't realize I'd posted something similar above, pardon)
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2005
  18. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Please start a thread with this list and your thoughts on the matter, then post a link here. I'm interested.
     
  19. KitNyx Registered Senior Member

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    342
    Nothing is infinite something and negative infinite something...everything exists because somewhere along this equation there came to be a distance greater than zero between the two.

    - KitNyx
     
  20. Satyr Banned Banned

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    1,896
    It is so simple.
    There is something rather than nothing because if there were just nothing there would be nothing there to see the something missing.

    The fact that something is, makes the appreciation of that something possible and the relation of something to nothing happens by that something comparing the two.

    Something is a relationship of what is to what is not, and this can only happen if there is something there to relate.
     
  21. fess Registered Senior Member

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    97
    The existence of the universe and our preception of it are the same thing. Without something being percieved or experienced, to say that it exists is meaningless. Our preception is the something. Why we are perceiving it and ourselves....we'll never know.
     
  22. fess Registered Senior Member

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    97
    Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that when I die and my act of percieving stops, you will all cease to exist.
     
  23. get1949 Registered Member

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    No such thing as Nothing - it's a ploy to confuse you

    If I did not know better I’d say you’re heads are full of nothing—but that’s a contradiction; how can anything be full of nothing? Ans: No thing can be full of nothing.

    But most of you are correct nothing can not exist for if it did than we could not exist to know it. It is sort-ta like “does a tree make a noise when it falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it? Ans: Sure it does and so that is something and there has never been nothing.

    It is not completely a word game but then again our (English) language is a bit weird at times when you can ‘reason’ that we have (sort-ta) a word that means more than nothing! Think about that for a minute (“more than nothing” Hmmmmm)!! When we say “oblivion” is that not a word that conjures up a place of more nothingness than just the normal nothing?

    Some one (in the thread) wrote that; “God wants to butt in here” (more like His Holy Spirit) and I think rightfully so. There never has been nothing at least not in the spiritual manner (and whether you like it or not and whether you believe it or not) you are spiritual FIRST and physical (body) SECOND. When you look at someone you should be concerned for their spirit first (and your OWN spirit too) and the world has it backwards—it says satisfy the desires of the body and eat up all your time in life with worldly things which will leave ‘no time’ left for the spiritual). Who has ‘no time’? Ans: no one who is living has no time…we all have some time (but we do not know how much). It is when you die that you have no time which means you have eternity. Does time stop when you die? Ans: nope! So when you die your body runs out of time but your spirit is set free to exist outside of time…just like God.

    God is first! And if you remember in the Bible it mentions that the “spirit of God hovered over the void and the dark…” (it’s something like that in Genesis). Well, let me ask you what DEFINES a VOID? Is a void nothing? Is an empty box filled with nothing? Is an empty garage really empty (and who of us has such a thing anyway?)? Now I know you’re all going to say “No, there is oxygen and nitrogen and dust floating around in the ‘void’ that makes up the garage” But that is not what I’m asking…!

    I asked; what “defines” that void of the box (or garage)?

    Ans: The sides of the box and the walls of the garage…define the void that is the box or garage! Take down the sides of an empty box and the void that was the box disappears. So what IS the void of the universe defined by? And you can bet that it can not be nothing or that once the ‘walls’ of it are identified the void then certainly becomes an ‘area’ that can be filled up. Now nothing (oops, can’t use that word ha ha ha) can be identified because once it is…then it ceases to be nothing and becomes something but we will try and stay away from the word games even though it is not a bad answer cause if one can not define it then why should it exist?

    I had someone say that outerspace was where nothing is (oops a ‘nothing’ can not be an ‘is’) but then I asked him “do you believe that light is something” His reply was “Yes” to which I asked how long does light take to travel to us from the sun? He replied “8 to 9 minutes”. Then how can something (light) travel though nothing (space) and take 8 to 9 minutes to do it? If it traveled though nothing it would be here instantly!

    The term nothing is a ploy of Satan! He wants us to dwell on it and occupy our time keeping us focused on the nothing of himself and the worlds ways (in a spiritual manner) and away from the something which is of God and Heaven. Think about it: there is a place that comes close to being ‘nothing’ (and it is my ponderings only) that this place is Hell. For Hell has to be a place where that which is of God and everything God made…is not. The Bible mentions fire and gnashing of teeth….OK. but I am confident that it is a place where those who reject Gods rescue plan in Christ will be ‘rejected’ to on their on choice and that they will then be ALONE in the VOID with nothing more than a screaming conscience for all eternity. You don’t put darkness into a room you take light out; you do not put cold into a room…you take heat out; and you do not put evil into a world, you allow yourself to take God out of it. God will not force Himself on us…that would be a ‘freewill’ (violation) and a raping of true love choice.

    That brings up another issue with ‘nothing’…time! God exists outside of time and space and matter (He can not be restricted by His own creation…except by His own choice to invade it as was/is such with Jesus). When we are born we are given time (and we do not know how much) when we die we pass through death’s door and exist in spirit outside of time. When you have so much time (like when you’re young) time seems to mean nothing to you…it goes so slow…and you can’t wait for it to hurry up…when you’re older and you realize you’re running out of time you want it to slow down as it seems to run faster…and we become more careful to preserve our life. The world is backwards.

    Now if you want to get into the science and talk about dark matter and an expanding universe then that is fine but it does not make the issue go away nor does it answer the ultimate questions: Why are you, you…and not me? What is your purpose for being alive? Where did you come from and where are you going? You’ll find that NOT much in this life satisfies (ultimately) until you dance with these big questions FIRST and then the rest of the ‘world’ comes second. God first in all things (In Christ Alone) and it is interesting that when done as such that the ‘science’ builds your faith and trust and love for God.

    I don’t want to pump the Bible in anyone’s face but you’ve got to admit that we (humans) are weird to the planet – we are aliens to this place (and I do not mean like: little-green-men) but that we do NOT fit into the scope of all other living creatures. We are very different! Dial up “The Privileged Planet” and watch the DVD.

    Life is temporary, it is a test, it is done in trust and it is not about you…or me…but rather God and His creation (of which you were made very special—you are NOT a trousered ape!). You have a curiosity that is insatiable and it will stay that way unless you seek God and allow His spirit to woe you to ultimate understanding.

    God always was (“I AM”) and as such nothing does not exist (and never will) and is further ‘nothing’ more than a poison pushed into the tainted creation we have chosen to become (and from which God had to rescue us from). And you need to KNOW this!!

    So do you think that the universe is infinite or finite and why? and further can you prove to me (why or why not) that of all the billions upon billions of stars out there (upon which has to be billions of planets for each star) that there is or is not other intelligent life LIKE us???

    GT
     

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