Why is it taboo to discuss the responsibility of victims?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by wynn, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    Just an observation...
    Rape mitigation is possible with stranger rape.
    Mildly doable for date rape
    Only vaguely possible with intimate partner rape-you have to not get involved with someone who will do that in the first place-and it's not obvious.
    Not at all possible for me to stop my dad. He would have inevitably had sex with me, sooner or later.

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  3. Anti-Flag Pun intended Registered Senior Member

    Am I the only one who thinks this is pretty much what everyone has been thinking all along and this has become blown out of all proportion? :shrug:
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  5. Arioch Valued Senior Member

    Since when is a woman, or a man for that matter, responsible for the actions of another person?
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  7. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    I sort of understand stranger rape and aquantance rape and even possibly date rape but I really cant get my head around spousal rape. My sister-in-law claims her partner raped her (though she backed out of it when it came time to take him to court and now is back living with him in spite of 2 separate offers, one from us and one from her parents to live elsewhere). I just cant understand why anyone would rape the person they sleep with anyway, is it simply that they keep getting turned down and want more sex? I dont get it
  8. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

    @ Bells,

    Topic: Can risk management techniques be applied to rape mitigation?

    Start time: Before midnight 2011.11.30, Randwolf arguing the affirmative.

    One opening post, one additional/rebuttal post, one concluding post.

    Standard rule four applicable to time frames thereafter, Bells arguing the negative.

    Edit: All times -5 Greenwich / EST.

    Please acknowledge your acceptance.

    Edit. Corerect typo. See you soon.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2011
  9. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    The same reason they'd beat the person they live with, it's a method of control.
    Raping your spouse is a great way to humiliate and terrify them, the idea being that they won't cross you again...
    After all, batterers claim their partners are the ones responsible for the battery.
    Batterers put the locus of control on their partner/victim.
    Rapists consider the rape victim responsible for preventing the rape.
  10. Bells Staff Member

    I accept. As the question is stated.

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    Except for one point. It is now 2011. NOT 2008. I would suggest you take your confused mind out of years ago and bring it to the present. I understand you seem to be hung up with that period, but really, I barely discussed this with you but was discussing it with angrybellsprout, now unless that is your sock, you really need to let that go.


    You see, it was the wording that had me chuckle. One cannot mitigate a rape. If you wish to know why, I would suggest you look up the meaning of "mitigate". His question is flawed from the beginning.

    Now, he may mean "mitigate" along the lines of lessening the chances of being raped. If that is so, his wording should be clearer. If I am to take him as he states it in the question without trying to delve into what he may wish it to mean, then I'd like to know how one can lessen the severity of rape through "risk management techniques". I mean how does one make rape less severe?

    If I take his usage of "mitigate" and apply the legal definition, his question is just as flawed.

    So for all his posturing, he can't even recognise what I tried to tell him a few posts ago.. *Sigh*..

    So the question remains.. Should I be nice and apply it to how he may have intended it to mean? Or should I take the question literally and make him look like a misogynistic buffoon for assuming that one can make rape milder and less harsh?
  11. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    That's what I took it as. I'd say take it as that if you want a rational debate.
  12. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    see I can understand someone getting angry and snapping and hitting there partner, I can understand someone getting drunk and abusing there partner, I can even understand fighting to the point of killing your partner I just cant see any of those situations leading to rape, it just doesn't make any sense to me
  13. LoRaan Registered Senior Member

    I am not sorry, but it is ALWAYS THE PERPETRATORS FUALT unless they are under extreme duress.

    Unless somebody is threatening your life or the lives of others what you do is you choice. It doesn;t matter wheter the purse was sitting there, the girl was running around in a thong, or the door was unlocked. If it wasn;t for the perpetrator nothing would have happened.
  14. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    That's what I think too.

    But I don't even put my purse in the cart in a supermarket, it stays slung on me.
    I would not send any theoretical kids of mine out the door in something too revealing...but I would tell them any and all good ways to avoid assault, and do so from...well, as soon as they were old enough for me to think about letting them out not directly supervised.

    It IS the perp's fault. 100%.You ought to take reasonable precautions anyway. Reasonable being a very fuzzy thing.

    I consider it reasonable to always sit with my back to a wall in public. I try to never let anyone get close behind me. Anyone near me gets looked at out of the corner of my eye to see if they register as threat. I scan 360 degrees of a parking lot when I go to my car. If someone creeps me out for ANY reason, I leave ASAP.
    When my brain starts behaving itself better, I am getting a concealed-carry permit and a semiauto..my current gun's heavier than I like.
    Paranoid? Spending several hundred dollars on a pistol and permit to carry?

    At what point does being wary start to damage your quality of life?
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2011
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Mitigation of Guilt

    You're looking at it from too selfish a point of view, Bells.

    In mitigating rape, one is looking for a reason to not call it "rape".

    You know, it's a really unkind word. How dare one accuse another of rape. Especially when it's the one's fault for tempting the other to rape.

    So it can't be rape, and we shouldn't call it rape.

    That's the whole point of "rape mitigation", to mitigate guilt.

    I mean, come on, really. How could you possibly be so insensitive to the real victims here?
  16. Bells Staff Member

    I guess one way to mitigate guilt is to suck it up and think of England...

    Which is why I found the manner in which he changed the question strange. I even voiced my concerns and said the first question was better. Because what steps can one actually take to mitigate rape? How does one lessen one's rape? Is it to make the rapist feel less guilty than he/she actually is?

    Rape mitigation.. what terms he chooses to use. Harks back to the countries that put the woman on trial for being raped.

    And "risk management". Because you know, one can lessen the impact of rape (*cough* "rape mitigation" *cough*) through better "risk management". One has to wonder what risk management plan he is going to come up with... I mean sure, one can assess the risk to a woman's vagina through business techniques that one would apply to assess the risk to a business or project.. But combine that with "rape mitigation" and it is a sure fire plan to success for the rapist. One has to wonder why he has chosen to word it in this fashion..
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2011
  17. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member


    There is always preemptive castration. That would mitigate a hell of a lot of rapes, I think. Plus, the rapist would never have to worry about the risk posed by attractive semi-nude thong wearing women [girls, boys, other men]

    Its probably the best way women could come up with to carry out the responsibility of complicity with their own rapes. Now how to make this popular in the selected victims? And how to select these victims? Show them nude pictures?
  18. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Indeed. In the profession of risk analysis, "mitigation" refers to reducing the consequences of a risk once it has been realized. There are other terms to use when referring to decreasing the probability of risk realization (such as installing a security system), avoiding the risk (such as not building a house in a hurricane zone), deferring the risk (such as delaying a vacation in Afghanistan for a few years when it will be a haven of peace and democracy), reassigning the risk (such as buying insurance so you can replace your car if it's stolen), etc.
    Some of the Eastern philosophers tell us that we can reduce both physical and psychological trauma by practicing their methods, perhaps going into a trance or something like that. I wouldn't want to be the one to test it, although I have to admit that these are the men and women who are able to set themselves on fire to protest unfair political treatment, so it must work for them.
    You're getting hung up on words. Everyone knows that we can reduce the probability of many bad things happening to us by taking sensible precautions. You're less likely to be burglarized if you lock your door. Does that mean that if you don't lock your door and somebody steals your stuff, that it's partially your fault? Who cares! Regardless of what words you choose to describe this situation, your stuff is gone, you could have prevented it, and you have to live with the consequences of your own refusal to do so.
  19. Sapientivore Registered Senior Member

    Hypothetical situation: a woman makes arrangements with an unknown male to have sex for money. The man treats her rather harshly, ignores her when she expresses discomfort, and then refuses to make payment.

    Question 1: How would you define the situation?

    Question 2: Is the woman in any way at fault?
  20. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    I could reduce my chances of robbery and stranger rape to almost zero if I carried an AK-47, a riot shotgun and a sixpack of grenades with me everywhere.
    My back would be sore more often, but still totally worth it.

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    I am much disappoint the law does not allow this...but the point is...

    ..."Sensible precautions" vary from person to person, depending on how much inconvenience they cause. An instructor of my recert class practices drawing his pistol a couple of hundred times a day, every day, works out, practices martial arts, carries a gun and several knives at all times and is trained on those and in hand-to-hand combat. That's "sensible precautions" to him.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2011
  21. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    and if someone took you by surprise and got your AK off you and pointed it at your head or had there own AK and got it to your head point blank when you weren't watching?
  22. keith1 Guest

    It's taboo to discuss adjusting fetal brains to remove "predator" and "victim" tendencies.
  23. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    You think someone surprises me anymore in a public, crowded space?
    Actually, that's one of the reasons I don't get out much, if I can't keep track of where everyone is I may have a panic attack. Plus that whole thing where my hair stands on end if someone's within 5 or 6 feet of my back...
    Hey, more stranger-rape prevention, that!

    I like to get out in nature. I feel so safe there-there's alligators, water moccasins, copperheads, feral hogs, coyotes...
    But no people.

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    People are dangerous.

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