Why is evil usually good?

If you observe what has been seen throughout the ages as "evil", at least to me, it becomes quite apparant that evil isn't evil, evil is good. Evil, in the sense of individualism and indulgence and seeking to better yourself even at the expense of others is nonetheless the most individual-oriented "side". It is the only side wherein the members are not "restricted" (as we observe in various works of literature and art, as well as in things such as Bible mythology, and simply throughout the course of history)

Now, obviously this discussion is purely philosophical as I doubt living as described above is very practical in this modern age; I'm simply speaking philosophically. Anyway, to carry on, in Christian "evil", what is considered evil? What makes it evil?

Indulgence, the pursuit of pleasure? The pursuit of self strength? The pursuit of expression and the growth of the ego? The rebellion?

All of these things...and yet it is these things that make us human and give our civilization motivation. We are not some organism, we are individuals. We have individual minds and individual experiences; of course, ideally we can work together and help one another...but nonetheless we are individuals.

Let's examine Satan: Satan is a figure that rebelled against God, for his own selfish purposes; he also encourages indulgence (biting into the apple, for instance), etc

Evil is usually good, I say.

Note: all of the above is merely my opinion, of course.

 

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Evil isn't "good" as you want to believe, that's why they call things evil to begin with...because they are bad. If you want to twist things around as you seem to have done, that's up to you but it still doesn't make it right or true.

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cool thread

what a presentation...... different!

evil to me is self over others as priority

but commitment of self, for others, is not evil of itself (even when it conflict the majorities opinions)

meaning; most all the good guys were considered evil to others. Look at mhammed or darwin for example. Heck even Jesus was supposedly killed by the very society of people who made him a king.

now evil in self propriety over others, by a cause of self intended 'desires'.... well then that be a 'loss to the common'

each are of choice; we all know when we are being stupid (aint no devil dude spitting in your ear)

anything they don't like

be an alchemist and save a few hundred lives during the plague (15th century) and the church not understand it, and you best run

i read somewhere that if you floated, then you weren't a witch (oops! to late)

awesome.............

the combining of a group of selfish (capitalism) is how a power can combine to control. In the west for example, we all like the ability to work harder to get ahead, but fail to see the entity of profit itself (invisible hand) will and can overtake the conscious virtues (compassionate reasoning) of the people partaking (see todays current economy; the business itself did it to us; we allowed the business to run the choices of what is good)

satan aint a dude and if you like the story then find the dichotomy here in

many tell the story that the serpant decieved

but it shares in them quotes; that the serpant didn't lie

man ate, he learned choice, he names his wife, god provides clothing and tells them man is like "US" and knows good and bad and lived 'to the ages'


and since we all here, then i guess the metaphorical eve is mom and how the hell are ya?

being an individual is always good, being a loss to the common.........well that is the bassackwards of trying to L.I.V.E - E.V.I.L

 

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"Evil" is an archaic term that deserves no mention in serious discussion, in my oh-so-humble opinion.

There is no such thing as evil. There have been some studies that link the size and/or activity of the prefrontal cortex in humans and the level of empathy and/or guilt felt. I wish I had something solid to back this up, but I did see on the Science channel a study conducted in a prison in the US that showed a convincing percentage of inmates on death row who had a smaller prefrontal cortex than prisoners convicted of non-violent crimes. Of course, calling these people "evil" would simply muddy the facts, and mystify a very physical issue.

There is a place for what we might call morality, though. We may be individuals, as you say, but society is the reason we are still here, and thus plays a vital role in our survival. We are built to be in groups, so to dismiss the rules set in place by those groups simply for the benefit of the individual is, for all intents and purposes, wrong. It isn't evil, because evil is a fairytale, but it's no less wrong.

 

Norsefire

You are using two perceived characteristics of "evil", individualism and indulgence, to argue that their potentially positive attributes make "evil" itself "good". You are not necessarily wrong, but your mode of thought renders the concept of civilization obsolete and encourages primal behaviour in its place. The only environment in which you could do as you pleased as an individual without regard for your behaviour's affect upon others is a life in solitude (even tyrants fear overthrow and rebellion). If you displayed individualism at the expense of others in a civilized society, you would soon find yourself ostracized or threatened from and by others, which would be against your personal interests, anyway. The underlying point is that in order to secure your own self-interests, you must at times display altruism and sacrifice so others can return the favor when you find yourself in need of assistance.

Also, when individualistic cultures come into clash with strongly collectivist cultures (cultures whose members have strong kinship obligations and group authority), the latter is usually victorious. Thus your extremely individualistic outlook on society renders you inept against collectivist outgroups, which works against your self-interests, too. A life in remote wilderness with few companions would be the only way to display such individualism and indulgence, but such a lifestyle does not make for progress, presuming the "progress" of a society is of any importance to this discussion.

Finally, as long as you're mentioning the Satan analogy, remember what happened to Satan for his individualism and pride: he was destined to an eternity of hellfire. Do you believe Satan would rethink his decision to disobey God, given the chance? Or do you believe Satan still feels his individualism and pride are more important than his own well-being?

 

Alas, you're not:

This could have been a decent philosophical discussion (though, properly, it should be in EM&J), but you had to go and drag religion into it....

This one is going to get oh so derailed anon...

sigh

 

Sounds criminal I'd change this a bit.

Besides though.......... christianitys evil is because pity for the poor and surrenderence into gods love....... I thought you and Nietzsche had a lot in common.

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I would agree as I do not believe in objective good and evil.

Yes "good and evil" and "morality" is influenced by the brain.

Morality as part of society is very important; however let's not be fooled into thinking that good and evil actually exist. A society is merely the sum of its individuals.

Thus "good and evil" take on any face a consensus deems; therefore Hitler was "good" in the German society. This is obvious, of course, but I'm merely pointing it out - good and evil are mere opinions, as is morality


Now individualism and indulgence are, in my opinion, the only way to be free; being bound to a collective means you are a slave. Co-operating with others out of your own free will, however, is a different matter.

Not at all. The individual becomes civilized because it is better for his own survival and renders him stronger. Thus civilization is the product of individual desire for protection and greater strength and ability. Individualism does not mean one cannot cooperate.

Yes. And in that scenario, the stronger would come out to be the victor. Thus it would be in your best interests not to harm others if you are going to suffer consequences.

Absolutely.

Individualism doesn't mean there cannot be a society; rather, it means that this society would, instead of having ridiculous obligations and bindings on its members, consist of purely voluntarism, wherein people contribute and work together of their own free will, including working together for protection.

That's a difficult question. Ask him. Well, if he exists.

I didn't "bring religion into it", I simply alluded to religious myths and characters in order to make a point.

 

Well, those allusions widen the scope of the enquiry to a dangerous extent.

In any case, given those religious elements, what was the relevant point?

 

Norse. I hate to critique your humble ego.

Morality is not influenced by the brain.
Good and evil are parts of morality.
Read some Spinoza. Start to understand what morality means.... Hitler was evil because he decided to start a cult understanding of brainwash and misdeeds. For example. He preached to many the bad doing of the Jews... right. Something like that anyway. His problem you see............. is not a part of morality or society, or some political message you seem to be encouraging... What I'm saying is Good and Evil are part of a phenomonology or and I can't stress this enough existentialism wherein the world is the wall (hypothetically speaking anyways....), and the individual is the freedom.... Freedom, Norsefire, is what you're on to and Spinoza is the perfect read.

 

morality is only realized within a brain. Trees aint measuring morality!

to measure with perhaps

talk about brain washed. Apparently you read the brainwashing beliefs rather than read history (both sides)

he wanted to break the versailes treaty and re-arm the german nation and the business owners would not (they were them jews you are talking about)

that is why hitler turned on them (reality check) (it was no personal hate, that is what the brainwashers want you to believe)

you really had no idea

ouch!

 

See, now I knew this thread would derail quickly.
I'm already in complete agreement with Bishadi!!!

 

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thatsecond line is almost scary read.

it must be about hitler

cus i doubt it is about morality or good and evil (bad)

 

lol

Bishadi, as I've always maintained, though you and I often disagree on particular methodologies of analysis, I believe that you and I agree on more than what appears to be the case.

It is indeed about morality.

However, I was also agreeing with your general criticism of nene's line of thinking (or lack thereof...).

 

-=-

Society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers.

 

true

but why is the key to a deeper understanding of why so ?

 

Society dictates that good is anything profitable to man's well being, which is obviously left towards your own distorted perception. While Evil being decremental to our well being, also left to perception. Evil and good are merely mental archetypes that govern our decision making.

 

I see what you mean

but now I see good in terms of the long term survival of Human Kind and evil as a religious term

 

Evil is just another word for someting wrong or bad to do.

 

evil is more than that

evil is a very STRONG word