Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Medicine*Woman, Jan 12, 2009.
Just one quick comment - Love the Avatar!!! :thumbsup:
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To me it seems like idolatry. Why venerate another stupid rock? And this isn't a case of people admiring a historical item - they think it's somehow magical.
Idolatry is usually defined as worship of any cult image, idea, or object, as opposed to the worship of a monotheistic God.
Worship usually refers to acts of religious devotion.
* holidays, festivals;
* music or singing;
* eating food;
* readings from sacred books;
* listening to a talk or sermon;
* the construction of temples or shrines;
* the creation of idols of the deity.
* private acts of devotion
The current ritual of the Hajj involves pilgrims attempting to kiss the Black Stone seven times (once for each circumambulation of the Kaaba). Some Muslims also accept this hadith, from Tirmidhi, which asserts that at the Last Judgement (Qiyamah), the Black Stone will speak for those who kissed it:
"It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbas said: The Messenger of Allah said concerning the Stone: "By Allah, Allah will bring it forth on the Day of Resurrection, and it will have two eyes with which it will see and a tongue with which it will speak, and it will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity." "
No Idolatry here folks, now just move along, move a long quickly please, other threads coming through... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
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hmm you're right. Clearly you're in a position to know more about this stuff. Muslims worship the black stone
From a person who wanted to make the point "Islam is better than Xianity because it's never split into separate religions" Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! hahahaaa THAT'S a good one too, *cough* Baha'i *cough* I'd say you're too close to the subject to be subjective.
You just don't want to admit idolatry is central to Islam because you are Muslim.
If you were an anthropologist and discovered some Islanders venerating and kissing their magical meteorite that their One God sent them (all while thinking one day after they die it's going to talk to them) well, you'd clearly identify this as idolatry. For me, it's just as easy and clear to see that the Muslims that walk around this silly rock and kiss it are superstitious simple people practicing idolatry with their magical sky-rock sent from their magical sky-daddy. Who magically split the moon in two and once even their magical prophet rode a magical fairy creature up to the magical heaven and looked around. Then he climbed down a magical bean-stalk slipped on a rock (that later became magical because his magical toe touched it) and sometime after that someone built a magical dome around it and it's been fighting ever since....
hmm yes you're right; that's exactly what people do in Mecca
hmmm yes, good that's exactly settled.
There must be more to the rock. Did it come down and hit someone during battle?
yeah, kinda like a cross. I wonder what they would have done if Jesus had drank too much wine and fallen off a donkey and broke his neck.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Nobody knows the origin of the rock. It is assumed to be a meteorite but I do not believe anyone has actually verified that assertion. There are many stories attached to it, the most convincing of which in my opinion is that it comes from the Wabar craters and may be an artifact of silica fused by the intense heat of a meteorite. There are legends of a city in Wabar which was destroyed by a fire from heaven, which fits the notion of a meteorite. The stone isnsaid to have disappeared for 20 years and then returned, so it's not certain it's the same stone. Also it's not one piece, it was shattered at some point in it's history and is made up of several pieces fused with cement
M*W: How does my question in this thread point to hating Islam? If I wanted to spew hatred, I think I know the right words to use for it.
Could be S.A.M. but supposedly that impact was 260 years ago.
Like I said there are many stories; the story of the city of Ubar is in the Quran
Without a doubt religion is great for the veneration of stupidity.
Haha! Can you imagine all these Xians lined up to kiss a sacred ass Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Oh, not idolatry though, no no no.... *smooches donkey ass*
It is said, by The Messenger concerning the magical Ass bung-hole: "By Gawd, Gawd will bring it forth on the Day of Resurrection, and it will have one bung hole with which it will see and a tongue with which it will speak, and it will testify in favour of those who tongued it in sincerity.
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NOTE: Tonguing a magical bunghole in hopes to curry favor with the magical sky-daddies is NOT, I repeat, NOT idolatry.... it's only tradition Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
uh mike. that is not limited to religion.
M*W: I can imagine it. When I was at St. Peter's in Rome, there were hords lined up to kiss the foot of the relatively small bronze statue of St. Peter. Over the years so many people had kissed the right foot of St. Peter that it had actually rubbed the front quarter of the foot off! By the time I got to St. Peter's foot to kiss it myself, a revelation of stupidity overcame me instead of the awe this whole thing was supposed to have inspired. I couldn't get over the fact that people from all over the world were lined up to kiss it, and I wondered why I was just another fool standing in that line.
hehe.... I can just imagine. I suppose kissing is intimate and it'd be too much to kiss a statue of God, so, kissing a magical foot or a magical stone is close enough to the Gods to make it feel like it's worthwhile...
I've come to the conclusion that some people simply lack the essential combination of proteins to form the neural connections that make it possible to recognize this.
You know... that makes me think of something I will post in linguistics.
people kiss lots of things. you can kiss the Blarney Stone as well.
i can believe that because i know a few old witches.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
hehe... ... ... irrationality isn't limited to religion, that's why Casinos do such good business. Also, nothing wrong with doing something for the fun in it, BUT, when you really believe it and it's part of your religion, well, then it's called idolatry .
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