Why Hypewaders Suspended Quadraphonics

Discussion in 'SF Open Government' started by hypewaders, Jun 23, 2010.

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  1. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    I did, and worked out that you were responding to Geoff, rather than James, but apparently otherwise got the wrong end of the stick :Shrug: no harm, no foul.
     
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  3. Gustav Banned Banned

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    http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2568206&postcount=1665

    http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2568395&postcount=1673

    http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2568463&postcount=1675

    http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2568492&postcount=1676

    http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2568515&postcount=1677

    http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2568548&postcount=1678

    http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2568554&postcount=1679

    http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2568559&postcount=1680

    http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2569009&postcount=1697


    *bolding mine
     
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  5. Gustav Banned Banned

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    from the start of quotes at#1665 to the end at #1697 in prior post, sam had a single post at #1689

    http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2568898&postcount=1689

    james would like us to believe that quad is actually being provoked by sam when instead he is actually and directly, quoting and addressing hype, billy and iceaura

    its really simple, we embark on a process of elimination based on the known sentiments of this administrator and some factual considerations


    mod hype?


    mod billy t?


    ice?


    sam?

    we all know, dont we? question is... where the fuck was she when the shit started flowing from quad like bad case of diarrhea?

    he does however get around to her in post #1699

    strange ja? one would have thought physicists like james would be good at assigning a causal agency. i guess we know better now
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    It's a very big leap, and you know it - you have demonstrated skill at making it, both directions.

    Which is the problem. This, for example, is typical from you and completely dishonest:
    Surely we don't need to go into the rhetorical details of how and why the fact that that a wire net does not stop spittle was and is irrelevant to the well-understood point in play? That we have here a deliberate rhetorical deflection, quite similar in its nasty little structure (if not vocabulary) to Quadro's larger scaled and more dramatic essays?

    Another illustration of the fact that Quadro's posts at issue are projections of this stuff unto SAM, btw. They are not mirrors, or parodies - they are windows and exemplars. Their language and approach is far more characteristic of the anti-SAM faction here, and a great many others on political sides opposed to SAM's common ones, than of SAM. And they do not at all resemble Billy's - not to forget the circumstances of this latest go-round.
    1) It isn't true. You are badly and obviously mistaken in your view of the dedication of the site, and your own standards for "low" comment are flagrantly hypocritical - you have accepted and defended the most foul insults from the occasional passing fundies, proposed in sincerity garbage bigotries and what would be serious accusations were they not so often over the shark, directed at your conception of "atheist" (conflated with the irreligious, etc).

    2) That's irrelevant to whether an instance of "commenting on a practice in Jews" is anti-Semitism. There are a great many sincerely theistic and firmly atheistic anti-Semites in this world, and calling them on their demonstrated bigotries is a separate matter - unless you yourself think there is a connection, maybe, between theism and bigotry of that kind? Most of your opinions along that line appear to be based on introspection, and you seem to have put a lot of effort into connecting Jewishness with Israeli crimes and Israeli "atheism" (your version, despised) both - - - - .
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Am I? Lets hear your view of what this site is dedicated to, in light of quad's ban and mine.

    I doubt the fundies would see it that way. But I doubt we are referring to the same set of people as fundies.

    Let me quote the famous antisemite Gilad Atzmon [whose performance in the United States was blocked last week by the Israel Lobby]:

    Its most ironic that if I throw around phrases about endemic racism in white peoples its considered bigotry, but call it a tendency to antisemitism in western Christians and suddenly its a more acceptable label.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2010
  9. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Well, it goes to the evidence of the 'phenomenon'. If I'd asked you to believe in Pink Unicorns because I happen to have a first class Unicorn net...well, I think you see what I'm saying. If that's what the nets are for, fine. But the entire issue is jury-rigged from the start: spitting as representing all Jewish people. It's preposterous. I allowed that to contaminate my treatment of the issue as a whole, and I apologize.

    However, save the "typical" comment: it's unfounded. Thanks.
     
  10. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    "Anti-Semite is an empty signifier, no one actually can be an Anti-Semite and this includes me of course. In short, you are either a racist - which I am not - or have an ideological disagreement with Zionism... which I have."

    A tiny bit illogical, I think you'll find.
     
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Semite:
    1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs b : a descendant of these peoples
    2 : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language

    ?Anti-Semite?
     
  12. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Someone who hates those people. If you want to split hairs, "Jew-hater" would be more than adequate.
     
  13. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Like Gilad Atzmon [anti-Zionist] , Richard Goldstone [international jurist for war crime investigations] and Israel Shahak [Civil rights activist].

    What about Arab haters, Accadian haters, Phonoecian haters?
     
  14. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    What about them?
     
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Are they all opposed to those descended from this mythical Shem as well?
     
  16. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Well, clearly not all of them, I would have thought. Any reason you ask?
     
  17. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So whats the basis of the hatred again? Are they antisemites or not? What exactly is it about all Semites they don't like? The location, religion, race, nose, language?
     
  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    27,366
    It's very well founded. You do that a lot, and the practice is one of the several resemblances to the structure of Quadro's flipouts.

    They aren't parodies of SAM. They are - not even really all that exaggerated, overall - exemplifications of a type of posting that is common around here, and not characteristic of SAM or even those on SAM's general political sides, particularly. Otherwise.
    I do, indeed, see what you are saying, and how you go about saying it.

    It's also illustrated in the structure of Quadro's posts. I'm just saying that SAM is not the poster most characteristically dealing in that kind of post.
    So?

    They should clean up their act, so they can better perceive others'. They appear to have a problem being treated as everyone else is, but that is their problem. You defend them, and attack the same (even, much milder) behavior elsewhere. Hence, your lack of standards and hypocritical position in the matter.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2010
  19. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Here, now: I thought I'd just agreed to "Jew-hater" as a term. Semantically, it comes to the same thing.

    Tch. Keep this up and I'll take you off the Christmas Card list. We shall have to disagree, sir.

    (See, hype: you were right. I was too pessimistic about the forum after all.)
     
  20. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Okay I'll play along and ignore that antisemitism only refers to a subset of semites. What do they hate about Jews? What is a Jew for that matter, so we know exactly what you are referring to? Is it the religion? Can't be, because most of them don't follow it. And there is no obligation to like any religion. Their race? What is that? White? Cream? Ochre? Burnt Sienna? Black? Their language? Most non-Jews have no clue what Hebrew means.

    So what is anti-semitism? I think Gilad is right, its a bullshit term that has gained acceptance like a lot of other bullshit notions. Its either racism or its not.

    Is this racism? Or antisemitism?

     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2010
  21. Bells Staff Member

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    22,816
    Actually no. Everyone, except you, has been quite distinct in pointing out that it has been the ultra-orthodox Jews who have been doing it. So who has jury-rigged it? From what I see, you are the one who has been classifying it as "Jews" who spit.. Sam was distinct in identifying that it was Hasidic Jews (ie Haredim or otherwise known as ultra-Orthodox Jews) who do spit on Christian clergy and nuns in Israel, mostly around Jerusalem. So were all the reports, from Catholic and Jewish sources. And yet, you label it as being 'all Jews', and then accuse her of it?

    So tell me, who is jury-rigging it again? At the moment, all fingers are pointing to you.

    As has been pointed out to you repeatedly, Hype, Billy and Sam have never used the kind of language used by Quad. You may view Quad's responses as a parody or sarcasm. But from where I and the rest of us are sitting, Quad was using your language, Lucy's language and even Spider's and Cheski's and Spock's language in the "parody" of Sam.

    How you could defend even a parody of comments such as this:

    I'm sorry, but this is meant to be funny? This is sarcasm? You wring your hands about it and call it hateful when such sentiments are expressed in a song, and disregard the deaths of 9+ people as a result, but as a parody you applaud it?

    What about this?

    That is not Sam. That is the kind of response Lucysnow is known to give, and which I pointed out to you and which you kept saying was the wrong link.

    So who was he making a parody of again? Sam? Or you and your ilk on this forum?
     
  22. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    OK, let's do a little cleanup here and then please move to a new thread. Yes?

    No, there's no "play along". That's always been the intention of the term. It's only been challenged in meaning recently.

    Red herring. And a silly one: "I can't pin down what's different about Jewish people, so how could one use a special term?"

    You missed most of the thread, Bells. There are comments all over it, besides the general allegation that Jews like ghettos because they like to be "insular". One might also have made the distinction of some Haredi Jews, or even brought up that the outsider Jewish people visiting aren't local and are extremists. This relates to her synthesis in so obvious a way I didn't feel it needed to be pointed out, but apparently you need me to do it: she's concluding that the Haredi populations of the ME chose to be in ghettos since they didn't want to interact with other people, based on spitting incidents involving Jews not of the local Haredi. Get it yet? The behaviour of a few foreign extremists is thus translated into the locals in order to justify her premise. It's deplorable, and it's fooling no one except you, Bells.

    Because they mean it...

    Wow. That was impressive cognitive dissonance. As a parody of someone's opinions, sure.

    Sam, as far as I'm told, and to all external appearances. Or - perhaps you think that I really believe in wholesale massacre and explusion?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Yes?

    Sorry, hype: at least I kept it short.
     
  23. Bells Staff Member

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    22,816
    You do know about the Haredi Jews, don't you Geoff? The problems the Government in Israel is having with them due to the fact that they refuse to integrate at all with any other Jews, to the point where they refuse to send their daughters to school with other Jews? How they harrass and abuse more secular Jews who live in their areas to the point where these poor people have to move out? Haredi Jews don't interact with other people because of their beliefs. Their actions do amount to extremism Geoff. Their sons don't really attend normal schools, but attend religious schools where all they are taught is the Torah. Nothing else. So how is it deplorable to acknowledge that they actively seek to not intergrate within the Jewish society? What of the Australian reporter who had to seek refuge with soldiers after they attacked her with spit because she had a tape recorder with her?

    Because they are relatively poor, they do live in areas that in more modern countries, could be construed as ghettos, in that they lack modern facilities that most Jews in Israel take for granted.. In other words, they choose to live in near poverty without any modern conveniences. Have you ever heard of the saying "the Torah is their profession"? Let me put it this way, there are more Haredi women working to support their families than men as for the men, "the Torah is their profession" applies. Are you aware that the situation with the Haredim is so dire that the Government in Israel has had to reduce their pensions to try to get them into the workforce and become a part of the wider Jewish communities in Israel? Better yet, if you want an honest opinion of the Haredim, ask any Israeli archaeologist.

    Integration has to be forced and pushed, with cuts to pensions and even jail sentences for trying to force segregation racial and religious segregation amongst Jews.

    Right. So if you or Lucy or Quad make comments about sending all Jews to the ovens, we can ignore it as a joke, because you don't mean it? Right?

    Okay. It is nice to see how well your double standards and hypocrisy works.

    Actually no. You were very quick to add a "but" to your supposed condemnation of the deaths of 9+ people by citing the anti-semitic songs that were apparently sung on that ship. But when someone from your supposed pro-Israel side says to send all the Jews to the ovens, you're perfectly fine with that and treat it as a joke.

    In short, in accusing others of anti-semitism, you are being and supporting anti-semitic arguments.

    Okay. Then you should have no problems in supporting this.

    Can you link me where Sam told someone on this forum to piss up a rope and encouraged sending Jews back to the ovens?

    Can you also link me posts from Sam where she used the abusive language used by Quad? You can send it to me via PM if you don't want to post it here. I will await your links with great anticipation.

    As to whether you support wholesale massacres and expulsion, you're fine with it when Muslims are the victims if your attitude is any indication. And you think it's funny as hell to make fun of the wholesale massacre and expulsion of Jews when Quad made fun of it, so much so that you are defending him when he said it. So frankly, all it's not looking too well for you at the moment, is it?
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2010
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