Why does the universe exist?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by Saint, Jun 4, 2020.

  1. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    How do you know this? How do you know the universe hasn't always existed?
     
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  3. foghorn Registered Senior Member

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    The initial state was God's mum and dad... Hold on, that can't be right...
     
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  5. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    An eternal infinite universe seems most likely...more likely than a finite universe created by an eternal infinite entity.
    Why is it here..well there is no where else to put it.
    Alex
     
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  7. Q-reeus Valued Senior Member

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    Seems most likely to you as amateur star-gazer. I posted the first link below some time back: http://www.sciforums.com/posts/3618962/
    The second, March 2020 follow up strengthens the case for a closed universe further.
    https://arxiv.org/abs/1911.02087
    https://arxiv.org/abs/2003.04935
    Much less problematic imco than your preferred infinite universe. BB-style event happened. Exact details still up for grabs. Anyway, star-gaze on.
     
  8. mathman Valued Senior Member

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    God was bored?
     
  9. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    In your case, high as a kite, probably.

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  10. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    There is a hypothesis that the total energy of the universe is zero, on the basis that the -ve gravitational potential may be exactly balanced by the ve energy in rest mass of matter (including binding energy) and radiation.
     
  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I understand that with regards to the topology of the universe, we still are not sure if the universe is totally flat and infinite, or if that "flatness" is just part of a much larger curvature, which as yet we simply cannot detect.
    That is reflected in the two papers you linked to....
    "The assumption of a flat universe could, therefore, mask a cosmological crisis where disparate observed properties of the Universe appear to be mutually inconsistent. Future measurements are needed to clarify whether the observed discordances are due to undetected systematics, or to new physics, or simply are a statistical fluctuation".
    and
    "We conclude that either LCDM needs to be replaced by a drastically different model, or else there are significant but still undetected systematics. Our result calls for new observations and stimulates the investigation of alternative theoretical models and solutions."

    Any positive outcome would be pretty big news, just as the eventual discovery of gravitational radiation was in further confirming GR, and the eventual image taken of a BH, or more correctly, its shadow.

    I can certainly understand why Alex prefers an infinite universe, to any supposed infinite deity, but by the same token any finality in determining the universe to be finite, does not mean that any deity is either valid or needed.
    I like Lawrence Krauss, "A Universe from Nothing" scenario, with the quantum foam being defined as the nothing most of us envisage as nothing.
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Better question is if this universe always existed. AFAIK, current science say this universe began with BB, suggesting it did not always exist. It's possible that there was something before the BB, but that's pure speculation.

    I like the concept of a toroid manifold. Is this geometry compatible with universal mechanics as we know them?

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    The mathematical simplicity which allows for a dynamic recycling seem eminently functional.

    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/400187116892348253/

    IMO, before the BB, there existed a mathematically "permittive" condition of indefinite size.....

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    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Hi Q-reeus
    Nice to hear from you..read from you?...hope you are well and surviving what may be difficult times..I hope for you they are not.
    Thank you for the links.
    I finally have come up with the realisation that we really dont know how or if the universe had a start or not if it is infinite or not and I find a certain contentment in accepting that I know that I don't know whereas others all believe they do know and by they I mean everybody who does not readily admit what I just have...I have never liked the big bang for no other reason that it would seem to me all who engaged the matter may have had a predisposition to the notion of a creation point which personally I find un necessary and at least to me not logical.
    I had resolved not to waste time here but seeing your post and your kindness to post links that no doubt you knew would interest me I felt I really should reply and thank you.
    On the positive even with crook legs I have been up from before day break concreting the piers supporting my new observatory and stopped for a rest but I plan to continue resting while reading up on combining narrow band channels in a new program I have under consideration.
    All the best.
    Alex
     
  14. Q-reeus Valued Senior Member

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    If Lawrence Krauss's pet idea of a zero energy universe were true that implies the universe HAS to be spatially infinite and exactly spatially flat overall.
    But you have become acquainted for some time now with alternate expert views e.g. Sean Carroll that don't subscribe to that notion.
     
  15. Q-reeus Valued Senior Member

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    That reads like progress of sorts to me.
    Wow. And I had visions of you just out in the back yard with a tube on a tripod. Time to upgrade your status to serious amateur astronomer.
    Do post pics of your pride and joy.
     
  16. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    Isn't it all accepted the fact that universe is expamding?
     
  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    The overall position is we cannot be sure of the topology. I like Krauss' spec that the quantum foam is nothing.
     
  18. Q-reeus Valued Senior Member

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    Actually the very word 'foam' implies it is something. QFT/QG assumes a vacuum filled with various quantum fields all having quite mathematically complex properties. Not my idea of 'nothing'. Krauss has admitted as much when cornered.
     
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Krauss' position, and others, is that the quantum foam is as close to what we may normally perceive as nothing, as we can get. Makes perfect sense. How do you not have space? or time?
    Again, the things science is ignorant of, is no reason to assume anything unscientific.
     
  20. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    If you look in my thread "Some Photos" posts
    211 and 85 have photos of my observatories. Bear in mind that I only started this project 12 months ago and you may see a number of things unfinished and untidy. E everything was going well until a tree fell on my fire pump and water supp.y pump at my dam and that threw things into confusion and set me back months..also the second observatory was not planned but it was an opportunity price wise I could not let go.
    The "Some Photos" thread is in this section.
    At p0st 85 is my project to house two mounts built by me over the last 12 months at post 211 is a photo of my recent acquisition which I plan to put in a 16 inch astro graph ... I change my mind a fair bit between the 16 inch and something smaller because driving the 16 inch may be a little difficult for me. And I have yet another small observatory in the city to bring here so finally I will be running four separate rigs.
    Alex
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  21. Q-reeus Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks Alex. Never bothered to look at that thread and surprised at how good a few of those astro pics are - false color makes them really stand out. Enough off-topic digression though.
     
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  22. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    You may have missed my edit made just now.
    Anyways back to "Why does the Universe Exist"...
    Alex
     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Check out thread ; "Some Photos" in Astronomy, Cosmology sub-forum.

    Alex is building an impressive gallery of deep space pictures .
     

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