Why does the government hide UFO's?

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by darksidZz, Apr 19, 2016.

  1. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Scraping the bottom of the barrel MR? Misinterpreting because you have been backed into a corner?
    what I said:
    Weird atmospheric disturbances are a valid observation: Ever hear of balled lightening? St Elmo's Fire? The Aurora Borealis? ? Aurora Australis? Mirages?
    Or how about just a small sample of weird cloud formation?

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    880 × 1327 - boredpanda.com
    And again, your intelligence claim is a total furphy. When I was a kid, I would wonder why a distant plane in the sky, or the Moon and Sun were appearing to follow me if I was driving along a road.

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    So Mr LOLmr, what do you suggest it is? You claim you do not infer it's of Alien origin: So you must accept its a UFO? Correct.
    And please don't get all shirty with me, I'm not the one that has painted you into a corner: You did that yourself.
     
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  3. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Ok..so now you claim it was cloud? Let me see. That would make it a brightly-lit multicolored cloud at night that morphs from a star fish to a diamond, outruns pursuing jets, emits orbs that circle the jet, emits a glowing saucer that lands on the ground, disappears and reappears a mile away, and is detected by radar. Right? This is getting better by the minute. Where's my popcorn? lol!
     
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  5. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    So now you are going off the deep end again lolMR?
    All I'm doing is just offering the many many natural alternatives that may or may not explain these unexplained events. Perhaps balled lightening?? or even any number of bizzare electrical atmospheric events that may occur. But perhaps you still deny the possibility of these weird atmospheric disturbances.
    All plausible stuff.....Far more plausible then too believe in your flittering in/flittering out without official contact ruse.
    But let's see, lolMR, you have yet to confirm your belief....is it of Alien origin or a UFO? Or is this a leading question too revealing to answer truthfully? C'mon, don't be shy.

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  7. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    LOL! You're getting your nickers in a wad aren't you? Hey, you're the one hoping to explain this away as a natural phenomena, not me. So now it's ball lightning, even though it was starfish-shaped and then diamond-shape with bright mulitcolored lights, outran pursuing jets, emitted orbs that circled a jet, was picked up on radar, and emitted a glowing saucer that landed on the ground. Never heard of ball lightning like that. Do you have any verifying accounts of it being like that? I'll wait.........

    Here's what ball lightning looks like. Note it only lasts for a few seconds.

     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    My knickers in a knot? Not at all. Just trying to determine what is and isn't what you are inferring with your hundreds and thousands of links to Aliens, UFO's ghosts etc etc You're the one doing the hysterical like lol.

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    Again as it's you that stoops to dishonestly interpret what people say , especially since you have painted yourself into a corner....I've given a small number of possibilities amongst probably hundreds of what it could have been.
    But otherwise it remains simply a UFO....Is that what's troubling you?
    Ball lightening is just one possibility: There are probably hundreds. But guess what? Until we have convincing evidence to tell us what it is, it's simply a UFO...sorry, I already said that.

    But again MR, why are you so backward in telling us what you believe it is?
    I mean you have denied inferring that it is Aliens, so what is it, if it isn't just a simple vanilla style UFO...Darn! I said it again!
    Or would that answer reveal too much about what drives you.
    Watch them knickers, OK?

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  9. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Actually we know very little about ball lightening, so any guesses as to how long it lasts on your part is just that...guesses.
    WIKI:
    "Ball lightning is an unexplained atmospheric electrical phenomenon. The term refers to reports of luminous, spherical objects which vary from pea-sized to several meters in diameter. Though usually associated withthunderstorms, it lasts considerably longer than the split-second flash of a lightning bolt. Many early reports say that the ball eventually explodes, sometimes with fatal consequences, leaving behind the odor of sulfur".
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    And of course we mustn't rule out the fact that some of what you claim, and what you would like us to hear and absorb, is probably just sensationalistic, excitable "just made for TV" journalism that the History channel is know at times to dish up at times.
     
  10. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I see. So now you're editing the account to fit your belief that it is ball lightning? This happened and that did not happen. Part is real and part is just made up. You're totally desperate at this point aren't you? Why not just relax and admit that the ufo phenomenon, as nonhuman intelligently controlled craft, is indeed real? You would sleep so much easier at night than living out this hectic cognitive dissonance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
  11. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Why Aren's UFOs Ever Tracked by Radar?
    James McDonald, Statement on UFOs to U.S. House Committee on Science and Aeronatics, 1968 Symposium on UFOs

    "The skeptic who asks this question, and many do, is asking a very reasonable question. With so much radar equipment deployed all over the world, and especially within the United States, it seems sensible to expect that, if there are any airborne devices maneuvering in our airspace, they ought to show up on radars once in a while. They do indeed, and have been doing so for all of the two decades that radar has been in widespread use. Here, as with so many other general misconceptions about the true state of the UFO problem, we encounter disturbingly large amounts of misinformation. As with other categories of UFO misinformation, the only adequate corrective is detailed discussion of large numbers of individual cases. Only space limitations preclude discussion of dozens of striking radar-tracking incidents involving UFOs, both here and abroad; they do exist.

    1. Case 35. Fukuoka, Japan, October 15, 1948:

    A very early radar-UFO case, still held as an official Unidentified, involved an attempted interception of the unknown object by an F-61 flying near Fukuoka, Japan, at about 11:00 p.m. local time on 10/15/48. The official file on this incident is lengthy (Ref. 42); only the highlights can be recounted here. The F-61 (with pilot and radar operator) made six attempts to close with the unknown, from which a radar return was repeatedly obtained with the airborne radar. Each time the radarman would get a contact and the F-61 pilot tried to close, the unknown would accelerate and pass out of range. Although the radar return seemed comparable to that of a conventional aircraft,

    "the radar observer estimated that on three of the sightings, the object traveled seven miles in approximately twenty seconds, giving a speed of approximately 1200 mph."

    In another passage, the official case-file remarks that

    "when the F-61 approached within 12,000 feet, the target executed a 180 degree turn and dived under the F-61."

    adding that

    "the F-61 attempted to dive with the target but was unable to keep pace."

    The report mentions that the unknown

    "could go almost straight up or down out of radar elevation limits,"

    and asserts further that

    "this aircraft seemed to be cognizant of the whereabouts of the F-61 at all times..."

    The F-61 airmen, 1st Lt. Oliver Hemphill (pilot) and 2d Lt. Barton Halter (radarman) are described in the report as being

    "of excellent character and intelligence and are trained observers."

    Hemphill, drawing on his combat experience in the European theater, said that

    "the only aircraft I can compare our targets to is the German ME-163."

    The airmen felt obliged to consider the possibility that their six attempted intercepts involved more than one unknown. Hemphill mentions that, in the first attempted intercept,

    "the target put on a tremendous burst of speed and dived so fast that we were unable to stay with it."

    After this head-on intercept, Hemphill did a chandelle back to his original 6000-ft altitude and tried a stern interception,

    "but the aircraft immediately outdistanced us. The third target was spotted visually by myself,"

    Hemphill's signed statement in the case-file continues.

    "I had an excellent silhouette of the target thrown against a very reflective undercast by a full moon. I realized at this time that it did not look like any type of aircraft I was familiar with, so I immediately contacted my Ground Control Station..."

    which informed him there were no other known aircraft in the area. Hemphill's statement adds further that,

    "The fourth target passed directly over my ship from astern to bow at a speed of roughly twice that of my aircraft, 200 mph. I caught just a fleeing glimpse of the aircraft; just enough to know that he had passed on. The fifth and sixth targets were attempted radar interceptions, but their high rate of speed put them immediately out of our range."

    (Note the non-committal terminology that treats each intercept target as if it might have been a separate object.) A sketch of what the object looked like when seen in silhouette - against the moonlit cloud deck is contained in the file. It was estimated to be about the size of a fighter aircraft, but had neither discernible wings nor tail structures. It was somewhat bullet- shaped, tapered towards the rear, but with a square-cut aft end. It seemed to have "a dark or dull finish".

    Discussion:

    Ground radar stations never detected the unknown that was seen visually and contacted by airborne radar. The report indicates that this may have been due to effects of "ground clutter", though the F-61 was seen intermittently on the ground units. The airmen stated that no exhaust flames or trail were seen from this object with its "stubby, clean lines". The total duration of the six attempted intercepts is given as 10 minutes. We deal here with one of many cases wherein radar detection of an unconventional object was supported by visual observation. That this is carried as Unidentified cannot surprise one; what is surprising is that so many other comparable instances are on record, yet have been ignored as indicators of some scientifically intriguing problem demanding intensive study."===http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc614.htm
     
  12. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I'm a great sleeper MR and have nothing that really concerns me to any great extent, specifically nonsense posted in the ghosts, goblins and UFO threads.

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    I see though that you have recanted and switched back to claiming they are Aliens from simply being just UFO's......Or perhaps this is just another indication of confusion after painting yourself into a corner yesterday.
    In essence, the last time I looked, all unexplained sightings still remain as UFO's.
     
  13. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Where did I claim they are aliens? A nonhuman intelligence could be transhuman time travelers, interdimensionals, or even a higher species that has lived under the sea for thousands of years. There are many reports of ufos submerging and emerging from the ocean.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
  14. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, all unsupported nonsense.
    But that one over riding fact remains intact:
    The unexplained sightings we see all remain as UFO's:
    [But sincerely, I hope that some extraordinary evidence is found one day

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  15. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    This fascinating information relates directly to the O.P. No U.S. government coverup? Really?

    "Following the large U.S. surge in sightings in June and early July 1947, on July 9, 1947, United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) intelligence, in cooperation with the FBI,[5] began a formal investigation into selected sightings with characteristics that could not be immediately rationalized, which included Kenneth Arnold's and that of the United Airlines crew. The USAAF used "all of its top scientists" to determine whether "such a phenomenon could, in fact, occur." The research was "being conducted with the thought that the flying objects might be a celestial phenomenon," or that "they might be a foreign body mechanically devised and controlled."[43] Three weeks later in a preliminary defense estimate, the air force investigation decided that, "This 'flying saucer' situation is not all imaginary or seeing too much in some natural phenomenon. Something is really flying around."

    A further review by the intelligence and technical divisions of the Air Materiel Command at Wright Field reached the same conclusion. It reported that "the phenomenon is something real and not visionary or fictitious," that there were objects in the shape of a disc, metallic in appearance, and as big as man-made aircraft. They were characterized by "extreme rates of climb [and] maneuverability," general lack of noise, absence of trail, occasional formation flying, and "evasive" behavior "when sighted or contacted by friendly aircraft and radar," suggesting a controlled craft. It was therefore recommended in late September 1947 that an official Air Force investigation be set up to investigate the phenomenon. It was also recommended that other government agencies should assist in the investigation.[note 4]

    Project Sign
    This led to the creation of the Air Force's Project Sign at the end of 1947, one of the earliest government studies to come to a secret extraterrestrial conclusion. In August 1948, Sign investigators wrote atop-secret intelligence estimate to that effect, but the Air Force Chief of Staff Hoyt Vandenberg ordered it destroyed. The existence of this suppressed report was revealed by several insiders who had read it, such as astronomer and USAF consultant J. Allen Hynek and Capt. Edward J. Ruppelt, the first head of the USAF's Project Blue Book.[45]

    Another highly classified U.S. study was conducted by the CIA's Office of Scientific Investigation (OS/I) in the latter half of 1952 in response to orders from the National Security Council (NSC). This study concluded UFOs were real physical objects of potential threat to national security. One OS/I memo to the CIA Director (DCI) in December read:

    'the reports of incidents convince us that there is something going on that must have immediate attention ... Sightings of unexplained objects at great altitudes and traveling at high speeds in the vicinity of major U.S. defense installations are of such a nature that they are not attributable to natural phenomena or any known types of aerial vehicles.'

    The matter was considered so urgent that OS/I drafted a memorandum from the DCI to the NSC proposing that the NSC establish an investigation of UFOs as a priority project throughout the intelligence and the defense research and development community. It also urged the DCI to establish an external research project of top-level scientists, now known as the Robertson Panel to analyze the problem of UFOs. The OS/I investigation was called off after the Robertson Panel's negative conclusions in January 1953."===https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unidentified_flying_object
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
  16. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    I am one of the people to have witnessed ball lightning, during a thunderstorm, in a tank farm on a lubricating oil plant, in 1982, I think. A luminous sphere, about a foot across, moving silently between the tanks for a few seconds after a lightning discharge nearby, and then disappearing. It didn't explode, just disappeared. Sadly this was well before the advent of mobile phones with cameras.
     
  17. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Rendlesham Forest UFO Incident, 1980. Another highly compelling case!

     
  18. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1496.htm

    Summary:
    Serious UFO researchers should refrain from being swept away into the extraterrestrial theory...which should be just that...a THEORY. Every report of a flying disk or nocturnal light, every report of an alien abduction, every photograph of a fuzzy gray "something" in the sky should not be assumed extraterrestrial simply because there is no other acceptable explanation.



    "What the public learns about the [UFO] phenomena comes from that small portion of the facts that has been pre-sellected by believers to promote enthusiastic support for the extraterrestrial theory." -- Dr. Jacques Vallee

    Unidentified flying objects, or UFOs, have been sighted and reported ever since humans began recording history...and perhaps even earlier. Significant concentration in UFO reports during the last 50 years has helped promote the theory that such objects are space craft of a higher intelligence from other planets. Coinciding with the influx of UFO reports, the alien abduction phenomena has affected millions and contributes greatly to the alien craft theory and belief...and many will argue it as fact.

    However, what hard evidence do we have that extraterrestrials are indeed visiting Earth?

    Crop Circles

    These concentric rings and patterns up to 100 feet in diameter, have been appearing in farmers crop fields in England, United States, and other locations since the 1950's. The origin of these circles is highly debated and appear to coincide with UFO sightings prior to their sudden appearance. Some even suggest the patterns and symbols are attempts at communication. However, nobody has been able to capture a UFO or alien space craft in the act of creating such a circle, and therefore, the UFOs are nothing more than a suspect...not a culprit. Human hoaxes have been exposed in the...but alien beings were never found responsible. Therefore, we conclude that crop circles are not evidence of alien space craft visiting Earth. (Read more on Crop Circles here.

    Advanced "Unexplainable" Technology

    Among the more controversial theories prevalent in writings from authors such as Erich Von Daniken, is that extraterrestrials have visited Earth at the dawning of humankind, assisting ancient people in accomplishing things that modern humankind cannot explain. Many in support of the alien craft theory argue that "aliens built the Pyramids of Egypt". However, evidence of this is lacking and is purely speculation. And to quote an X-Project reader who recently posted his opinion to a similar topic in the forum, "...I think that the underlying ‘humans could not have done this without alien help’ trend...is insulting. We are by and large a very clever, capable race."

    Modern advances such as military Stealth technology is also attributed to alien creators although this is purely speculation. Stealth aircraft employ very scientifically engineered features which do not appear to be related to light-speed, anti-gravity flying saucers from other planets. Again...this is nothing more than a speculative theory attempting to explain that which we do not understand.

    Alien Abductions

    The alien abduction phenomena is perhaps one of the biggest factors causing many to associate UFOs with extraterrestrials. However, every alien abduction story has come from eye witness reports or were retrieved while under hypnosis. For one thing, hypnosis is not an accurate memory retrieval tool and can cause false memories. Eye witness reports are not solid evidence as we will discuss later on. Finally, there are many earthly explanations for such unearthly phenomena. DMT, Serotonin, and electro-magnetic energy can cause similar experiences under controlled conditions in labs, and it is believed that these naturally occuring chemicals or rays can cause such events outside the lab as well (Read more here). More on alien abductions here.

    Implants

    Implants are not scientific evidence of extraterrestrials because no one has been able to make an accurate determination that they are of alien origin. "Implants" have been removed from certain individuals, but these objects appear to be terrestrial...and have not been found to be what they are assumed to be - tracking devices implanted deep into the skull of human victims of alien abductions.

    Eye Witness Reports

    Eye witness accounts make up the majority of UFO reports. However, just because thousands of individuals have seen flying metallic disks or lights in the night sky, or had close up views of what appear to be alien craft hovering above them...does not mean that the objects are infact alien in origin.

    While the X-Project is not going to assume those who have come forward with reports of UFOs are all lying, we do understand that many factors contribute to the way in which people interpret, experience, and report such phenomena. While some (perhaps many) UFO reports are complete lies or hoaxes, many are probably misidentified air craft or natural phenomena such as earth lights. (Stay tuned to the X-Project Magazine as we will be publishing a full report on the many factors which affect the way people experience and report paranormal phenomena.) Eye witness reports are not "hard evidence" and are impossible to verify and prove.

    Photographs and Video Footage

    Photographs are not hard evidence for alien space craft or extraterrestrial biological entities because UFO photos are extremely easy to fake...extremely easy! Try it! With the modern advance of Hollywood special affects, anyone with a fraction of this knowledge could create a very convincing bit of cinematic UFO fiction. Plus the majority of UFO photographs are fuzzy and subject to interpretation. If they are real, whatever fraction of them are, then photographs would probably be good evidence that unidentified flying objects exist...but not alien spacecraft.

    Serious UFO researchers should refrain from being swept away into the extraterrestrial theory...which should be just that...a THEORY. Every report of a flying disk or nocturnal light, every report of an alien abduction, every photograph of a fuzzy gray "something" in the sky should not be assumed extraterrestrial simply because there is no other acceptable explanation. Sure, there could be life in outer space...and a tiny fraction of this life could be intelligent...and an even smaller fraction could be intelligent enough to visit Earth...but please keep in mind that there is really no evidence of this at all.
     
  19. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I totally agree! The ET or alien persona is suspiciously performed and acted out before selected witnesses, like it was something the intelligences were trying to convince us of. But it is an extremely naive and simplistic presentation, like the numerous accounts of little aliens collecting soil and vegetation samples. It doesn't jibe at all with our intuition. There's some sort of deception going on here, for whatever reason or purpose.
     
  20. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I agree! Again then, that settles that. These sightings at best maintain the general definition of UFO's.
    Like I said, I've seen one myself, 20 odd years ago...It remains a UFO!

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  21. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Describe your sighting. What characteristics did it exhibit? Where was it? Were there confirming reports of the same object by other witnesses?
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2016
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Sure, even though I have described it before:
    I was driving in my car around 2030 hrs along Foreshore drive in the east side of Botany Bay in Sydney, when in the distance, low on the horizon I saw an apparent bright blue disk, around the apparent size of an overhead Moon, that slowly moved parallel to the horizon for around 5 or 6 seconds, before disappearing below the horizon. I was totally surprised but went home, turned on the TV but no reports...Eagerly purchased the next morning's paper, and still no reports. In my mind the object was real and was not like any aircraft.
    I after thinking long and hard on the incident, for the reasons I have already stated, simply put it down to a UFO.
     
  23. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    So you acknowledge the existence of blue disks flying across the sky? That's certainly a step in the direction of acknowledging craft maneuvered by non-human intelligences. Welcome to the worldwide ufo community.
     

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