WHY DOES THE GOVERNMENT FEAR ARMED VETERANS? Part 1 of 2

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Kaiduorkhon, Feb 1, 2014.

  1. Kaiduorkhon Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    552
    WHY DOES THE GOVERNMENT FEAR ARMED VETERANS?
    PART 1 of 2
    by Alan Stang

    January 4th 2008

    (A word about the word, ‘Conspiracy’. At the mention of that word, the narrative writer or speaker risks an immediate tarring as ‘incredible’; yet, when the commonplace example of two men seated in their car in a convenience store parking lot unfolds as their hot weather thirst and their agreement that, since they have no money, they will go inside the store, and while one of them distracts the clerk, the other will boost a six pack of beer.
    They carry out this plan, return to their car and depart the premises while drinking a lot of cold bubbly. A classroom analysis might find them, though they were not caught, actually guilty of misdemeanor theft; while the fact of this ‘petty theft’ matter is, they are guilty of conspiracy to carry out a crime, which is a felony.

    This is how routine and frequently carried-out conspiracies are. Of course when such ‘business agreements’ are carried out on larger scales with greater numbers of people, they are the stuff of which massive governmental coups and FILL IN HERE, occur, and are maintained. Very few organized crimes by whomever, are done single handedly. Because the majority of large and important conspiracies are carried out by large and important organizations coordinated by correspondingly large numbers of coordinated, high ranking persons, the ‘mainstream media’ (monopoly) has created and perpetuates the popularly supported and aggressively defended mass-hypnosis-activated delusion that true conspiracies are rare, and most anyone who proffers a ‘conspiracy theory’ must be bonkers… And now we return to our story…):

    __________________________

    Recent passage by the District of Criminals of the legislation known colloquially as the Veteran Disarmament bill raises the question of why the conspiracy for world government would want to disarm *" Returning veterans” (In accordance with that verbatim vocabulary as it is harbored within the Homeland Security & Patriot Acts: * “May be a threat to the nation”). The conspiracy trusted these men to use the most devastating ordinance (weapons) abroad; it does not trust them to keep and bear much smaller weapons here at home. The obvious answer is that these are the millions of well trained military men and women I was talking about in my recent piece about a possible assassination threat to Dr. Ron Paul.

    These are the people the psychos at the top are afraid of, the people who can stick the red dot in their eye from a mile away. The psychos know these 'returned veterans' are out there, watching, stewing, temperatures rising every day; they are beginning to understand that they are suffering and dying now because the psychos have poisoned them with hellish trauma and Depleted ('Sneaky Pete') Uranium in the field.

    They are beginning to realize that the buddies and the limbs they left behind in Iraq were lost not in defense of this beloved country but in behalf of the megalomaniacal nightmare of conquest the psychos think is “normal.” Now the veterans understand that the monsters who sent them half way around the world to get sick are dismantling the system of freedom the Founding Fathers gave us here at home.

    So far, they haven't said much, but the psychos know they are simmering and that something could set them off. So, the Nazis at the top want their guns, because it is very nerve wracking to have to keep watching your chest and tum-tum, hoping that if you see the red dot there soon enough you will have time to hunker down before the round that follows it smashes through your perfumed skull and distributes gobs of your polluted brain all over the haute couture ensembles of the distinguished ladies enjoying cocktails on the balcony of your penthouse.

    To engage continuity of the above narrative, and to review the remarkable details of what this thread evaluates and promotes pro & con dialogue around, please enter in search mode:
    ‘Why Does The Government Fear Armed Veterans? Part 1 of 2 by Alan Stang’:


    Cogent, optional Search (Google or MSN) enter:
    It Is An Armed Citizenry That I Fear by Vin Suprynowicz FEB. 11, 2000


    :fright:
    ____________________________
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
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  3. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Could you give a quote from the legislation, or proposed legislation, which specifically refers to disarming veterans, as opposed to any other group of people?
    Could you give a link to this?

    btw Alan, you can't give email addresses in posts.
    It is verboten.
    It flags up to the mods as spam, and gives them unnecessary work.
     
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  5. Kaiduorkhon Registered Senior Member

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    Hi Captain Kremmen, thanks for the advice on the email address, I just removed it.

    Regarding the source of information, Captain, as the post does say, those quotes are excerpted directly from the Homeland Security & Patriot Acts.

    As you may know, there's a lot of 'suspicion' out there, as to what and who the 9.11.01 disaster is really about - so called *'agent provacateurs' are not by any means ruled out.

    (*This term intends to mean 'an inside job'; there is an abundance of alternative and responsible disagreements with the mainstream media cover stories on 9/11 <via Netflix and Kindle-Amazon>, as in fact most folks are completely aware. Indeed, a long list of rogue government actions in response to 9/11, 'normalize' a series of rogue government declared intrusions on citizen privacy - the Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights: the complaint is, Big Ideas like 'The New World Order' are doing preemptive strikes, such as the very recent educational example of two American cruise ships, passengers and crews overcome with 'gut-bugs', disabling <on two different occasions, aboard two different ships> hundreds of on-board vacationers - this may portend further and much more expansive episodes of ABC - Atomic, Biological, Chemical - warfare projected on the American people, by terrorists...)

    There is also the option of going to search mode, with an entry, quoting the offered statements.
    ___________________________

    “Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are attractive to right-wing extremists.” / "Returning veterans may be a threat to the nation." – Excerpts from Homeland Security Act

    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison

    Homeland Security Classifies Returning US Veterans as Potential Terrorist Threat
    April 14, 2009
    tags: economy, government control, Homeland Security, Janet Napolitano, policies, Politics, President Obama, regulations, Terrorism
    This morning I wrote a post about a Homeland Security paper that warned about “right wing extremists” and the threat that they may pose to the government.
    This paper basically lumped in people who are either pro second amendment, anti abortion, anti illegal immigration, or pro smaller government (or more than one or all of the above) with white supremacists and domestic terrorists. As maddening as I found that paper there was one aspect to the paper that I missed this morning and to me it is much more egregious.

    This is what the Department of Homeland Security thinks about our military men and women who are overseas fighting on our behalf: "...the return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable of carrying out violent attacks."

    That is unforgivable. (Tantamount to a manifestly expressed declaration of war against all American - especially combat - veterans (Refer 'Rambo', and his Hollywood depicted severe provocation to defend himself; whereas, he was imprisoned anyway...) This, inevitably includes all living veterans from WW II, Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, the Persian Gulf, Iraq and Afghanistan: their families, their friends, and the American people at large.

    Isn't that just about everyone? Is this not an open, aggressive intention to separate 'veterans', from the 'nation'

    To suggest that some of our troops will come home and form or join terrorist groups is beyond reprehensible. And why is the Department of Homeland Security suddenly using the “T” word again when talking about our troops when they refuse to call the actual terrorists what they are?

    The report continues:
    Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are attractive to right-wing extremists,” it says. “DHS/I&A is concerned that right-wing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize veterans in order to boost their violent capacities.

    I find it very interesting to see how these people really feel about our veterans.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
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  7. Kaiduorkhon Registered Senior Member

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    Saturday 1 February 2014
    Having been placed in what has since culminated into a very controversial national issue, decades before-hand, and having studied and written of it since 1953 when I combined my direct and extraordinary experiences as a four and five year old in Thief River Falls, Minnesota, with my experiences as a 12 to 15 year old adolescent on Nett Lake Minnesota, Indian Reservation: I have grown to an elderly, seasoned, tentatively feral observer having been deluged with experientially acquired information, cultivating a much more refined perspective than the generalized collective consciousness presently reviewing and overseeing what has been known, understood and documented first hand by myself, for well over a half century…

    Indeed, the relatively new controversy is presently ‘profiling’ all military – especially combat - veterans; painting them with the same brush; although there are many historically measurable reasons for this, the post-9/11/01 Homeland Security and Patriot Acts put it in writing as an official announcement from the federal Government.

    The incentive for this writer’s motivation to reflect the ongoing dissertation, began on 15 August 2012, when a singularly over-zealous, federally employed social worker took on the role of psychiatrist and ‘diagnosed’ Truly Yours as a ‘Hallucination’ hazard. I've not had a hallucination - though, certainly I've had visions - in my seventy two years of sentiency. Neither, in over two decades of professional (psychiatrically overseen) counseling, have I ever been diagnosed as paranoid (unreasonably afraid), though I have been repeatedly diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), from which I have suffered (in stratified chronological layers) since early childhood: nor have I ever been legally accused of, or convicted, of any serious crime (felony) whatsoever.

    Non-self defensive, specious violence finally arrested the attention of the anthropological, psychiatric, behavioral and academic disciplines: the former institutions are conspicuously belated in recognizing and responding to what has been a pronounced social problem: since the advent of civilization.

    Regarding it’s tardy focus on current social phenomenology – and military (including police) combat veterans in particular – the ‘formal’ address to this extantly marooned issue is to ‘spray & pray’ in the direction of ‘returning military (and all other)' veterans as a ‘threat to the nation’, in those functionally undeniable - remarkably adversarial and provocative - post-9/11/01, Homeland Security/Patriot Act *published words.

    (* Including the families, friends and fellow countrymen of veterans: Isn't that just about 'everybody'?)

    When my regular Vets Administration counselor, one personable and skilled professional, Lynn Satterwhite, was transferred to another location, her much younger replacement, who shall go unnamed throughout this missive, began to aggressively and vainly chastise and otherwise condescend my wife and I, in counseling, on location in a federal Vets Administration facility. Counselor’s qualification is a degree of ‘Licensed Certified Social Worker (LCSW)’.

    My newly stationed counselor revealed a professional posturing and countenance altogether resembling an over-achieving student of behavioralist, B. F. Skinner; particularly reminiscent of the content and import of Skinner’s professionally and socially famous work: Beyond Freedom and Dignity. Skinner’s laboratory findings are predominantly based on his manipulations and observations of rodent behavior, particularly rats.

    A *metaphor for this writer's ongoing study has long been drawn and applied by a number of Ph.Ds in physics and philosophy <who have made extensive contributions to this record's knowledge>; who shall remain unnamed): *to enter the record’s first, second and third person’s untangled reflexive verbiage, is to trespass on the territory of the eternal Green Grass River Dragon; observing a carelessly intruding rat. By the time Behavioralist Skinner and his advocates understand their delinquent trespass, it is too late to dodge the metaphorical bolts and fires of accountability. *You enter the policed swimming pool of reality, and you sink like a stone.

    This message is scheduled by those who made it necessary, to proceed by the prodigious conduit of learning that brought this messenger to the herein-delivered threshold of student-teacher formatted essay. Only a qualified minority of beleaguered students, including this half-century ('obscurely') published author, are prepared to truly understand for the first time, an assemblage of information that everyone in this class already knew. (Good Morning: Vietnam. Who left the lights on?)

    To be continued...

    :fright:
     
  8. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    The problem with conspiracy theories isn't that conspiracies are rare it is that large conspiracies are difficult to keep secret.
     
  9. Kaiduorkhon Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    552
    Well spoken, Russ.
     
  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,882
    Well your accusations are rather broad and unsupported. Are you claiming that the US government is fearful of all veterans? If you are, I think you are overly paranoid. Does the government have reason to be concerned about some veterans? Absolutely...do you remember Gulf War veteran Timothy McVeigh and his bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City which killed 168 people including children? Do you recall the Fort Hood shooting in which Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan killed 16 and wounded 30 others? Do you remember Army Private Naser Abdo of Garland, Texas who was arrested in a bomb plot? Do you remember the 2012 plot to take over Fort Stewart by Army non-commissioned officers and poison an apple orchard and blow up a dam in Washington State?

    So the government has good reason to be concerned about the radicalization of components of the military and some military veterans. I am an armed veteran and I don’t think the government spends much time or money worrying about my arms. I haven’t seen any parked black cars around my properties or black vehicles, or any vehicles for that matter, stalking me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  11. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,738
    Most soldiers are not mentally scarred after leaving US Military Service,
    but about 30% develop moderate to severe problems caused by PTSD
    leading to problem drinking, drug dependency, homelessness etc.
    It is worst among veterans who have served two tours.

    Might these be a prey for right wing extremists who want military expertise?
    Possibly, I suppose, if such organisations actually exist and are not part of Homeland security paranoia.
    And, if said organisations would want people already damaged by combat experience.
    If you were an ex-soldier down on your luck, a friendly face giving you purpose and a modicum of sustenance might be welcome.

    But shouldn't the Government be doing that?
    Sorry, I'm being socialist, I know.

    Here's an interesting article:
    http://www.dosomething.org/tipsandtools/11-facts-about-our-troops-and-mental-health-issues#

    One thing it says is this:
    Between 10 and 20 percent of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans have suffered a traumatic brain injury (TBI). Possible consequences of this internal injury include anger, suicidal thoughts, and changes in personality.

    Can that be true? It sounds like a very high figure.
    Worse than a career as a professional boxer.
    How is that happening?
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2014
  12. Kaiduorkhon Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    552


    "Are you claiming that the US government is fearful of all veterans?"
    Yes. Consider the below-gathered documentary proof of that. The evidence is broad and abundantly supported.

    "If you are, I think you're overly paranoid."
    'Paranoia' is 'unreasonable fear'. I have enjoyed and benefited from Vets Admin provided counseling for nearly two decades, and diagnosed several times by several different psychiatrists. I am consistently evaluated as 'competent' and non paranoid. Moreover, I've yet to be legally accused let alone convicted of any kind of felony.

    "Does the government have reason to be concerned about some veterans?"
    Yes joe, of course. But your question cautiously and understandably refers to 'some' veterans. This is not at all cause for the flock-shooting announcement that one size fits all. It is a relatively miniscule minority at real issue here.

    You offer four examples of awry veterans who either carried out or planned to carry out extreme random violence against innocent people. Two of these veterans are of notably Middle Eastern ethnicity. Certainly it is not right to categorize all Islamic and/or Middle Eastern people as being enemies of the state, while, on the other hand, the Middle Eastern people you cite as veterans have proved themselves to be functional and extremely dangerous radicals. Draw your own conclusions.

    Regarding your example of Timothy McVeigh - please refer to how that issue is fielded in the below list of documentary sources. For the moment, he was one singular veteran. Should he become the yardstick by which we categorize tens of millions of veterans in general? PTSD, for example, is not exclusive to combat veterans or rape victims in and out of the military - it is a disorder acquired by anyone who may have suffered a severe physical and/or psychological trauma. Whereas, post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is commonly categorized as an infliction which causes afflicted individuals to carry out violent acts. This is no more true than the bigotry of stigmatizing - and flock shooting - all veterans. Exemplary cases of PTSD occur not only with vets, but with fireman and police also; certainly with innumerable, abused women and children.


    ___________________________________________

    “Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are attractive to right-wing extremists.” – Excerpt from Homeland Security Act

    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations" - James Madison

    Homeland Security Classifies Returning US Veterans as Potential Terrorist Threat
    April 14, 2009
    tags: economy, government control, Homeland Security, Janet Napolitano, policies, Politics, President Obama, regulations, Terrorism
    "This morning I wrote a post about a Homeland Security paper that warned about “right wing extremists” and the threat that they may pose to the government.

    "This paper basically lumped in people who are either pro second amendment, anti abortion, anti illegal immigration, or pro smaller government (or more than one or all of the above) with white supremacists and domestic terrorists. As maddening as I found that paper there was one aspect to the paper that I missed this morning and to me it is much more egregious.

    "This is what the Department of Homeland Security thinks about our military men and women who are overseas fighting on our behalf:
    The return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable of carrying out violent attacks.

    "That is unforgivable. To suggest that some of our troops will come home and form or join terrorist groups is beyond reprehensible. And why suddenly is the Department of Homeland Security suddenly using the “T” word again when talking about our troops when they refuse to call the actual terrorists what they are (Catalytic agents for the increasingly promoted New World Order)?"

    The report continues:
    "Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are attractive to right-wing extremists,” it says. “DHS/I&A is concerned that right-wing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize veterans in order to boost their violent capacities.

    "I find it very interesting to see how these people really feel about our veterans".

    ( *Speaking of <'Support our!'> veterans: don't those folks have mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, children, aunts, uncles, cousins, nephews, friends and neighbors? Is that not fairly well just about everyone? )

    ("This is not only an act of terrorism. This is an act of war! You are either for us, or against us!" - President G. W. Bush Jr.. <Son of the former President, CIA Director and Texas oil tycoon, G. W. Bush Sr.> The Day After 9/11, via all-cable-channel-TV... Speaking - as you and your New Whirled Odor-spinning fellow conspirators do: Promoting 'One religion, one military, one government one leader'; etceteras - 'in order to protect and maintain the safety of the American people' <and yo Mama?>. Get out there and vote! For the obliteration of the annoying Declaration of Independence, and the pesty Bill of Rights )...

    *Editorial, journalistic commentary follows: "Uhhm. Are you sure you wanna do this? Mr. Presidents?"
    ________________________________________________

    Veterans and Homeland Security | Homeland Security

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    “To continue to use McVeigh as an example of the stereotypical ‘disgruntled military veteran’ is as unfair as using Osama bin Laden as the sole example of Islam”

    Robert Spencer Apr 16, 2009 at 7:48am Uncategorized 0 Comments

    So says the commander of the American Legion, David Rehbein, in his letter to Janet Napolitano protesting the characterization of veterans in the DHS report about “right-wing extremists.” (By the way, we’re all still waiting for the DHS report on the global jihad threat.)

    Rehbein, of course, is expressing a commonplace assumption: that Osama is some kind of deviant, a psychopath, who is no more representative of Islam than Timothy McVeigh is of veterans because he has transgressed against the core principles of Islam just as McVeigh trampled upon the principles of the U.S. military.

    The comparison dissolves, however, upon close examination. All the orthodox sects and schools of Islamic jurisprudence teach that the Islamic community has the responsibility to wage war against unbelievers and subjugate them under the rule of Islamic law. They all teach that when a Muslim land is attacked by non-Muslims, every individual Muslim has the responsibility to wage defensive jihad. These are the Islamic principles upon which Osama based his actions, and by which jihadist movements have gained recruits among peaceful Muslims worldwide.

    By contrast, there is no McVeighite movement among veterans. He was not by any stretch of the imagination acting upon principles taught by the military (or by any sect of Christianity, for that matter, since McVeigh is also often invoked as a “Christian terrorist”).

    The implications of the breakdown of the comparison are many. One notable one is that Osama is not a lone nut or member of a tiny group like McVeigh, but represents a broad movement within Islam — one that will continue to grow as long as it is not confronted, and its very existence is denied on pain of charges of “Islamophobia.” How can anyone formulate a strategy to counter a movement that one won’t admit even exists, or else continually minimizes in terms of its size, influence, and staying power?

    “Republicans criticize report on right-wing groups,” by Eileen Sullivan for AP, April 15 (thanks to Ray):

    "To continue to use McVeigh as an example of the ...

    www.jihadwatch.org/2009/04/to-continue-to-use-mcveigh-as-an...

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    ____________________________________

    You identify yourself as an armed veteran who doesn't think the government spends much time or money worrying about your arms, and, that you haven't seen any parked black cars around your properties, stalking you...

    That's the outdated method of reconnoitering individual or gathered people, joe - check out the incumbently active, satellite vehicularized, New Age Eye In The Sky:
    TV THAT WATCHES YOU - Beyond 1984 - SciForums.com
    www.sciforums.com/TV-THAT-WATCHES-YOU-Beyond-1984-t-99404.html
    ‘The Invisible 1984 Machine War’, was and remains among the major ... Ergo, that part of Watergate revealed to and known by the public,
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014

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