Why does Iran hate Israel!?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Sci-Phenomena, Aug 30, 2006.

  1. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Despite being in a profession with a large number of Iranian colleagues, I have never been able to understand Iranian politics... perhaps because Iranian expats don't understand it either and that's why they're here. When the Shah and his highly westernized culture (arguably an American puppet whose power depended on CIA support) was overthrown by Islamists, a discontinuity in Iranian politics and culture occurred that is still being sorted out. Remember that Iran is the only major Shiite nation (perhaps Iraq will be one some day, but today is not that day), Persians amid a vast Sunni Arab hegemony. Perhaps they feel that they have to present themselves as more Arabic than the Arabs, more Muslim than the Sunnis, and the way to do that is to be really, really antisemitic, in contrast to the many Sunni countries that have (or had until recently) peace treaties with Israel.

    If you find someone who can answer your question, please report back and let us know.
    Of course not. But that still leaves "much of the world" (my exact words) to hate Jews and Israel.

    BTW, Nigeria has the fourth largest Muslim population on earth, and last time I checked it was in Africa.

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    Indonesia, Pakistan and Bangladesh are the top three, and none of the four are Arab nations.
     
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  3. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    The Shah was overthrown by a broad-based popular uprising which included both Islamists and many other groups (including lots of liberal, secular ones - Communists were a major target for the Shah's repression for one example). It was in the subsequent transitional period that the Islamists took over and liquidated all the competing factions, torpedoed relations with the West, etc.

    I think it's a bit more political (and a bit less directly cultural) than that. There's a handful of states in the region with serious prospects for being the big kid on the block, and this list includes Iran and Israel. So they tend to view one another through a zero-sum lens. Meanwhile, Iran's politics are of the revolutionary anti-American flavor, and Israel's rep in the rest of the region being what it is, the calculation that Iran should try to get out on the forefront of opposition to Israel in order to bolster its pursuit of regional leadership seems pretty clear-cut to me.


    There is no shortage of Arab states in Africa, including one who has waged repeated wars against Israel, and others who have tried to position themselves as champions of the Palestinian cause, expelled their own indigenous Jewish populations after the creation of Israel, etc.
     
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  5. Gustav Banned Banned

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    more jew haters,eh? despite the fact that they probably have no idea who these people are except in some abstract sense, they hate them

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    what is that?

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  7. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Since when is that an impediment to hatred?
     
  8. Gustav Banned Banned

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    that's a strong word.

    lets eyeball indonesia
    Assessment

    Indonesia's negative actions regarding Israel and Jews reflect its sympathy as a Muslim nation with its co-religionists in the Middle East rather than any deep-seated antisemitism. Antisemitic attitudes in the media and in government decisions, and immoderate language from some Muslim leaders, do persist at a modest level. Over the long term, however, Indonesia faces significant challenges from conservative Muslim forces seeking to radicalize the state. Such forces, while not necessarily antisemitic or anti-Zionist, could if influenced by Iranian forces generate such feelings in significant sections of the Muslim community.

    malaysia

    This is a unique country in many ways with an impressive record of economic growth and political stability, striving to modernize yet doing so on the basis of institutionalized discrimination. Most Malays do not seem to share their prime minister's antisemitism or anti-Zionism. Such sentiments are confined to a handful of his cabinet supporters and Islamists active in Malaysian politics. Iranian ties with the government are a source for concern, based on the activities of Islamists in Thailand and the Philippines. While there is little substantial evidence that Malaysian support is going directly to Islamists or Muslim separatist groups, Malaysian territory does contain support facilities for such movements.​



    as for nigeria, they aint got a clue
    frag's "much of the world" is steadily shrinking back to the arab and european world

    ja
    the euros that slaughtered 6 million jews and continue to attack jews where they find them and an arab world that cannot possibly be anti-semite since they too are semites

    ADL Survey in Seven European Countries Finds Anti-Semitic Attitudes Steady; 31 Percent Blame Jews for Financial Crisis

    New York, NY, February 10, 2009 … A new survey of seven countries across Europe shows millions continue to believe the classical anti-Semitic canards that have persistently pursued Jews through the centuries.

    The findings released by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today revealed that nearly half of the Europeans surveyed believe Jews are not loyal to their country and more than one-third believe they have "too much power" in business and finance.

    Attitudes Toward Jews in Seven European Countries (.pdf) an opinion survey of 3,500 adults – 500 in each of the seven European countries – Austria, France, Hungary, Poland, Germany, Spain and the United Kingdom – conducted December 1, 2008 – January 13, 2009, found 31% of the respondents across Europe blame Jews in the financial industry for the current global economic crisis.

    Overall, 40% of Europeans in the countries polled believe that Jews have too much power in the business world, with more than half of Hungarian, Spanish and Polish respondents agreeing with that statement.​
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2011
  9. Gustav Banned Banned

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    strange how the white man loves to implicate the rest of the unwitting world in his crusade to wipe the jews of the face of the earth. ja, sublimated and repressed, the hatred burns deep in the white man's psyche for the innocent jews. they defensively project these murderous instincts to people that have little or no idea who or what a jew is

    that is your white man
    that is how they roll
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    There is a reason for this. It is the same reason why Jews have not done so well in India or China or Yemen, for example, as they have in Europe or the US. Its because it is "normal" in Asia and the Arab lands to keep things in the tribe. ie, you hire people from among your tribe, you promote people from your tribe, you give aid to people from your tribe, you have community based institutions, schools. If you go to India or China or Saudi Arabia, you'll find that its very common to find relatives or people from the same community concentrated region or profession. In these places, Jews get locked out by the same practices which are predominant in their community. So nobody essentially cares who is Jewish because everyone is the same. Fast forward to Europe and when Jews hire other Jews, give money to Jewish organisations, promote Jewish talent and professionals, they stick out. It makes them outsiders in societies where people do not practise clan behaviour to the same extent. People start viewing them with suspicion especially when they realise how their community ties span pan-national associations. They are viewed as plotting against others when in reality they are simply helping their own community. It doesn't go down too well in the west. You can see the dichotomy of Jews who preach multiculturalism in the US but prefer to "live with other Jews" in Israel.

    Jewishness in the Middle East is intricably associated with Middle Easternness. People in the Middle East expect Jews to be Arabs who speak Arabic, dress Arabic, look Arab and think like Arabs. In Iran, they expect Arab Jews to be Arabic and Persian Jews to be Persian. Israelis are viewed as foreigners who are not Arabs across the Arab world, they are akin to a group of Arabs carving out a state in Sweden, because some of them had immigrated there a thousand years ago. This is why Iran, which is possibly the only place in the Middle East where Jews did not make an exodus to Israel, views Israel as a foreign colonial state. They are not anti-semitic, they are anti-zionist. Even with their currently small population of Farsi Jews, they have always had one Jewish representative in their majlis

    The only countries that have peace treaties with Israel have been the ones whose dictators were paid off by the US or Turkey which was opposed by Arabs throughout the Ottoman rule. The Arab people all oppose Israel as a foreign colonial state
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2011
  11. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Iran#Pahlavi_dynasty_.281925_to_1979.29 :

    "At the time of the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, there were approximately 140,000–150,000 Jews living in Iran, the historical center of Persian Jewry. Over 85% have since migrated to either Israel or the United States, with the migration accelerating after the 1979 Islamic Revolution, when the population dropped from 100,000 to about 40,000. On March 16, 1979, Habib Elghanian, the honorary leader of the Jewish community, was arrested on charges of "corruption", "contacts with Israel and Zionism", "friendship with the enemies of God", "warring with God and his emissaries", and "economic imperialism". He was tried by an Islamic revolutionary tribunal, sentenced to death, and executed on May 8, one of 17 Iranian Jews executed as spies since the revolution."
     
  12. Ghost_007 Registered Senior Member

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    Actually speak to Iranian people. They do not hate Israel.

    The same with Muslims in general.
     
  13. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Are you sure they don't have prisons for Jews who are too devout? Detention facilities where they waterboard them or tie wires around their testicles? Prisons where they are stripped naked and set upon by dogs? How many of them have they tortured and killed in the last year? We need proper statistics to determine Iranian hatred of Jews
     
  14. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    That's a disingenuous argument. As I noted above, the word "antisemitic" has long been defined in the English language to apply only to Jews. If you're looking for logic and consistency, language is not a very good place to expect to find it.
    The definition of "white man," on the other hand, has been consistently expanded in America so that it now covers virtually all of the traditionally "caucasian" people. This includes the Jews and Arabs. Perhaps even the Indians, who after all are the original "Aryans." Even Latinos, who as a demographic group have a considerable percentage of Native American ancestry (a population who are not "white" in any paradigm), are now considered officially white. (Or "honorary white people," to quote a bewildered Redneck.)

    To desperately hang onto the old distinction, the rest of us are now referred to in official government documents as "non-hispanic whites."
    Although there are plenty of unreformed racists in America, Jews have been getting a pretty fair shake lately. The United States retains its standing as the place where they have been treated with the most respect since the Diaspora began. And it shows. Their elders now complain about Jews being so welcome in America that the community faces the existential threat of disappearance through assimilation.
    There are racists of every skin color, nationality and religion.
    There are many Iranians in America. I've never found them to have a high incidence of antisemitism.
     
  15. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    I'll go one better: I work in a profession with a large number of both Iranian and Israeli expats. I've never observed any particular animosity between them. Rather the opposite, in fact - they end up having much in common as Middle Easterners living in the USA and tend to socialize pretty frequently.
     
  16. Ghost_007 Registered Senior Member

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    That is so true.

    It really does make me laugh tbh.

    We live in a very strange World.
     
  17. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Nah, those are reserved for those Iranians who dare to seek democracy and social justice.
     
  18. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    They are not however necessarily representative of your typical Iranian living in Iran.
     

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