Why do young women in Britain drink themselves to oblivion?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by kira, Oct 9, 2011.

  1. phlogistician Banned Banned

    OK, so let's instead start with some facts:

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    That's age vs number of people at that age. Note the end of the bulge,.... this data was 2008. You'll notice a steady INCREASE in population (with one spike) up to the age 40, when things start to decline.

    So what does this mean? That businesses geared up and catered for that peak demographic,... so when I was twenty, still the peak demographic, there were lots of businesses targetting my demographic, same when I was 30, same now I'm 43.

    What does this mean in reality? Well, one, there are fewer 20 year olds than 40 year olds, but if you were in the pub trade, and had a lot of pubs and bars to cater for all of my demographic, when we were pubbing every Friday and Saturday, and your market moves on, and shrinks, what you gonna do? You have fewer customers, but the same overhead... the law of elastic sales comes into play;

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    to create the same revenue, you have two choices,... charge more,.. or shift more product, so guess what they did? They made boozing a bit cheaper. More offers, more happy hours, generally kept prices as affordable as possible, so they shifted more product. But that means drunk customers.

    Thanks to globalisation, offshoring, and imports, the cost of living went down, giving younger people more disposable cash, so more were able to afford nights out drinking.

    Lastly, opening times changed. When I was in my 20's, night clubs closed at 02:00hrs. Now, pubs can open until then, nightclubs even later. We had a choice, go home when the pub closed at 23:00hrs, (22:30 when I first moved to the City I went to college at!) or PAY to go to a nightclub. But if you can stay in a pub drinking, you can spend that admission fee formerly spent on night club entry on yet more booze instead. So guess what? Nightclubs lower entry fees, and do more promotions on booze. A nightclub locally had a promotion for lager at £1 a pint. That's late 80's prices, same as when I was in my 20's, but with earnings suitably higher now.

    So simply, people over indulge, because they have the means, motive, and opportunity. These things have eached subtly increased, and hence the binge culture. It's absolutely bugger all to do with drink driving.
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  3. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Silly you.

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    I had thought that someone with a background of abuse such as yourself could relate to how a person in a prospectless, volatile, lasting and/or violent situation can lose the (ordinary) sense of self-preservation.

    For example, sometimes children from families with domestic violence or alcoholism develop that characteristic pattern of lacking self-preservation - as it is the only behavior that allows them to survive in their dysfunctional family.

    A general socio-economic crisis is such a prospectless, volatile, lasting and/or violent situation on a greater scale. A portion of the population reacts with anxiety, denial, escapist behaviors to such a crisis.
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  5. drumbeat Registered Senior Member

    Hold on.

    24hr licencing laws only came in 6 years ago, and these problems have been going on since well before than. In fact, one of the main reasons for the 24hr licencing was so try to stop the binge drinking before the pubs close at 11pm.

    I take the point about the demographics and the number of 20yr olds.
    But I think we can all agree there isn't one single reason for it, and in fact the the demographics, price of alcohol, the drink-driving limit, 24hr licencing, and disposable income all combine, with other reasons, to cause what we see every weekend.

    That article was just trying to explain about one of these reasons.
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  7. keith1 Guest

    If the wealthy are to be allowed to extort the middle-class into a dysfunctional state, then this trend will continue. It is the same in the US. The wealthy-backed Republican congressional members are already calling middle-class protesters "a mob".
    This is the current trend of terrorizing the middle-class into nervous oblivion. It is the dismal consequences of greedy, incompetent thought processes trying to wring an unwarranted revenue gain out of good working people.
    The only thing keeping Queen Charles* from pissing in the street is they pay her extortion fees to not to.

    *I give the royals no credence nor respect by not caring to remember their names
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2011
  8. Anti-Flag Pun intended Registered Senior Member

    Except that this isn't an addiction problem, unless 99% of the nation is addicted.

    It is a much more general lack of intelligence with regards to the subject of alcohol.
  9. Anti-Flag Pun intended Registered Senior Member

    Well there are a lot of women who say they need to be drunk before they'll do anything sexual, even kissing, but I think that's more a confidence issue.
    They do seem a lot more compliant when drunk though.
  10. Anti-Flag Pun intended Registered Senior Member

    Well, it is "normal" in the sense that the vast majority of people partake in it. As for acceptable, I guess that is a personal opinion, but I would think those who partake in it are hardly going to say it's unacceptable. There are some hypocrits who may try to weasel some justification or exemption, but generally it's majority rules, so it's acceptable. :shrug:
  11. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    I agree with what you have said.
    I'd like your opinion on this.
    Why is Britain so low ranking in so many aspects of life that indicate well being and stability.
    Divorce, abortion rates, teenage pregnancy, drug taking, etc.
    Has something gone wrong in Britain more than has happened elsewhere?
  12. Anti-Flag Pun intended Registered Senior Member

    Whilst I agree with your last sentence, there are other factors at play - The increase in house prices has resulted in fewer young people owning or attempting to own property, so they use this money as disposal income. Also there is a trend towards having children later in life, now well into their 30s so they again have more income to spend.
    They technically may have a lower cost of living, but they may also end up with less at the end of it.
  13. phlogistician Banned Banned

    Nope, nothing at all to do with the drink driving limit. That aspect is pure 100% bullshit, and an vague attempt to justify drink driving.

    Here's the skinny on other countries:


    Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany Greece, Italy, Latvia, Netherlands, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain - 50mg
    Irish Republic, Malta and UK - 80mg (Irish Republic pledged to reduce to 50mg in 2010)

    Sweden, Poland and Estonia - 20mg

    Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary - 0mg

    Figures per 100ml blood. Sources: Brake and EU Commission

    So you'll quickly see we have one of the most lenient drink driving limits, same as France, but binge drinking is only just emerging over there. So given these two factors are common, I think we can eradicate them from both sides of the equation.
  14. phlogistician Banned Banned

    Nope, 24hr opening was:

    1, the end of an 'emergency' measure brought in during wartime, which took a long fucking time to rescind.

    2, an attempt to stagger people spilling onto the street at 23:00hrs, causing noise and conflict.

    3, a vain attempt to stop the rush to get a drink before 'last orders' although I maintain this was bogus, given how close it was called before time.

    And 24hr opening might have only come into play six years ago, but licensing laws were gradually relaxed, and some venues allowed later licenses long before that. A pub my friend runs had a license until midnight at weekends, for instance.
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

    The set of "intelligent young women who are nurses, teachers and mothers" does not comprise 99% of Great Britain. Nor are most people in that subset of Brits alcoholics. The alcoholics are, however, very photogenic - so when a photo shoot or a reporter goes out to find evidence of such abuse of alcohol it is readily apparent.

    I think that's also true, although the line between "not knowing enough about alcohol to use it in moderation" and "having a serious problem with alcohol" is blurry indeed.
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Agreed. However, keep in mind that this reporter was going all-out to get the most extreme stories he could. The women having two beers and then going home didn't make it into his story.
  17. kira Valued Senior Member

    A lot of interesting and informative comments here, and most are posted from UK, it seems? It got me thinking, is this just in the UK or everywhere else in Europe?

    As I firstly encountered the news, I found it a bit shocking (some images and some description of the level of wildness were shocking to me). But then again, I don't drink, I never drunk, and I have no first hand experience to get the impact of alcohol (i.e. to the point of getting drunk). I did try a few drops of beer, I couldn't stand it, it smells like gasoline and tasted very bitter. I tried also a few drops of red wine, also couldn't stand it. When I tried white wine, it was rather ok (in the sense, I could tolerate it), but I couldn't see why people like it. If I meet my German friends in bar (only on special occasions, because most of the time I must study, I have no life T.T), I go with my bf, and my bf will get me cola or apple juice, and I felt like I don't belong T_T.. Anyway, what I wanted to say is, in the German bar, most people (men and women) that I see also dress like us, just jeans and t-shirt, very casual. Then again, I never see the city night life above 11 PM. From what I gather in this thread, it seems the craziness happens after midnight.

    Sorry if it wasn't news

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    . Here I thought Britain is going crazy (in Germany, people are crazy just during carnival or festival I think, like now in Oktoberfest in München). Yesterday as I checked it, the news about Cardiff was on the frontpage of the Daily Mail (before being replaced with the wedding of someone popular). Today, there is again news about the craziness in Cardiff, but now I understand, it seems it is a part of some "carnage UK pub" (a kind of carnival?):

  18. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

    it is simple Stoni . Death wish . Life is so fucked up you got to have the escape from reality cause it is fucked up . It is Death wish. People find satisfaction in Death wish . It is the "Fuck It" Balls to the "walls "
    That is when the walls get broke too!! Balls too! Death wish is fulfilled. What causes it ? Social slavery causes it . Restlessness of the animal in a cage ! It is normal behavior of animals put in a cage

    Now if your life starts getting better and you get a good job and like what your doing then death wish diminishes. Life is good but soon as something goes negative death wish comes roaring its ugly head . Lots of real events in peoples lives can trigger death wish . The lose of someone close , A business failure . Getting fired from a job . Lots of things . Course some people do drink out of Boredom I suppose but I think stone cold addicts it is death wish
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2011
  19. kira Valued Senior Member

    Someone here in this thread mentioned about peer pressure. I think it has a lot to do with that as well. By looking at the photos, it seems that Britons are very open and outgoing people (just like in my country, Indonesia). Very different with German people. I don't observe "peer pressure" in Germany. For example, in Indonesia, everyone must have the newest blackberry, otherwise you'll be a social outcast. Also, everyone try to wear beautiful things (to be fashionable). I used to know someone who never seems to wear same cloth to uni, you wouldn't catch her in the same cloth in different day!! In Germany, I immediately noticed that most people wear black or grey. Or, maybe this is also a kind of peer pressure, too? No idea. It's just, from the photos, the UK people look more expressive, like that in my country. You immediately notice when people look happy or sad.
  20. Stoniphi obscurely fossiliferous Valued Senior Member

    That is very sad, brother Me - Ki.

    Guilty as charged, I try not to take anything too seriously...which is likely why I can't relate to getting smashed.

    Many adult survivors become 'control freaks', many use denial as their coping strategy. After some few years of being a relatively homicidal motorcycle crazy I chose to begin valuing myself enough to avoid a death trip. I worked out my control issues by studying mathematics for 14 years at university and becoming a fair geometer. I worked out my violent tendencies by becoming a martial arts expert, and that brought me to the study of health and wellness.

    Now, at age 61, I do not stay up late because I get up in the morning and run for a couple of hours with my Labrador every day. After I eat right, meditate, practice Taekwon Do, do my daily business stuff and spend quality time with my family I just don't feel like doing anything excessive. A couple of glasses of wine or a couple of Labatts or a couple of shots of Captain Morgan and I am good to watch the tv news until dinner.

    I guess that I lack both the drive and the motivation to get sloshed. Also there are quite a few calories in those beverages and I do not need to gain any weight or ramp up my blood sugar.

    Like I said - I can't relate to that type of behavior, it is just not in my play book and it violates the Bushido. Additionally, my Cherokee ancestors told us not to take into our bodies that which would make us weak or stupid. From reading the above, it would appear that I am well past the customer window that does this. :itold:
  21. Anti-Flag Pun intended Registered Senior Member

    I think you missed the point; I'm saying it is not about addiction as their behaviour is no different to everybody elses, unless everybody is addicted.
    Or they are readily apparent because there is actually a large number of them.
    As has been said, their "intelligence", however we might decide to measure it, is largely irrelevant when it comes to partaking in binge drinking as it is not considered exclusive to alcoholics.

    It reminds me of the old saying: "The doctor told me I've got a problem with alcohol, I said to him I haven't got no problem I like it..."
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

    I agree that there are a large number of them. It wouldn't surprise me if this guy found (or saw) 1000 women doing this. But as a fraction of the 61 million people in the UK? It's probably pretty small.

    I spent a fair amount of time in Ireland - in County Meath, Dublin and Belfast. And the Irish have a (deserved) reputation as being even heavier drinkers. The tiniest town has a pub, and you can't get out of any social gathering without being offered alcohol - and having people be shocked when you refuse.

    But while I was there the very drunk (i.e. at the level depicted in this story) were always in a small minority, although far higher than you'd see here in the US.

    Agreed. But binge drinking does also not equate to people who "pass out in the gutter, have unprotected sex with total strangers, pee in the middle of the street" etc. One current definition of binge drinking is more than five drinks at one sitting, and I hit that pretty regularly in college. Another is any time you hit a BAC of over 0.08%, and that's two or three drinks. I hit that even more regularly in college. I never passed out in the gutter, had unprotected sex or peed in the middle of the street.

    People who do those things because they are uncontrollably drunk - and do it every weekend - are pretty close to the definition of alcoholic, which is a compulsive drinker whose drinking causes them serious health, social and/or personal problems. And that's a disease that, unfortunately, has no easy cure.
  23. Cifo Day destroys the night, Registered Senior Member

    I began reading about the problem/epidemic of publicly-drunk young British females for at least 10 years, perhaps 20, and I remember it first involving teenage girls, so it seems to be a generational phenomenon.

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