Why do we need DVRs?

Discussion in 'Computer Science & Culture' started by Fraggle Rocker, Jul 9, 2010.

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  1. Fraggle Rocker

    Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Why do I have to decide in advance which programs I want to watch later, and have a piece of computer hardware sitting on top of my TV that copies them from the broadcast and stores them on a hard drive? If five thousand people in my town want to watch "So You Think You Can Dance" on Sunday night instead of Wednesday, why do five thousand copies of that program have to be stored on five thousand hard drives in my town? Why do five thousand people have to worry that they didn't screw up their recording, that there wasn't a power failure, etc? We get a lot of power failures here in the stormy Washington DC region. I miss several programs every year because of power failures.

    Why can't the cable TV company store ALL the programs ONCE on hard drives in its own office? Then if we want to watch one of them we could pull up a menu (basically last week's TV Guide) and have them download it to us.

    They could keep every program for two months, or some arbitrary long time, for people who are on vacation, or who just got busy and need to catch up. You could put in a request to have them store one longer that you know you're going to want to see; maybe you'd pay a little extra for the convenience. And for the fact that you're no longer at the mercy of your own incompetent DVRing skills.

    That just seems like a more simple, sensible, foolproof, user-friendly system to me.

    Of course the next logical step is to bypass the broadcast completely. Let the networks have all their shows available on a menu and we can just watch whatever we want whenever we're ready. Sort of like YouTube writ large.
     
    Fraggle Rocker, Jul 9, 2010
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  3. superstring01

    superstring01 Moderator

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    Mine does. If I buy access to "On Demand", I get access to a good 1/3 of most TV shows at anytime I want.

    Why only 1/3? Because most programs are owned, if only in part, by the production company. Many more are syndicated entirely. Broadcast is licensed and many producers are stuck in the 80's and are afraid of people watching them "for free" (no commercials). They fail to take into consideration the fact we don't watch them anymore, anyway. I fast forward through every commercial.

    One day, Fraggle. One day soon.

    ~String
     
    superstring01, Jul 9, 2010
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  5. phlogistician

    phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Ah, you need a BBC/4OD type service. We have the BBC 'iPlayer' etc, which caches TV progammes for a couple of weeks, so we can watch them on demand after the fact. You need a media centre or compatible set top box still of course, but there is lots of support for the service.

    Various other UK channels offer catch up streaming services too. Channel4 have a great back catalogue going back years.

    We're all digital here now, which helps.

    I have a DVR/Media Centre too though. Ch4 offer regular programme catch up for free, but charge for films, so I record films in advance.
     
    phlogistician, Jul 9, 2010
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  7. Syzygys

    Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Yes Fraggle, your prayers have been answered for at least 5+ years. On Demand is exactly what you describe and you are right, DVRs are a thing of the past...

    By the way On Demand also plays adds, so there is no advertising revenue loss for the producers of the shows....
     
    Syzygys, Jul 9, 2010
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  8. MacGyver1968

    MacGyver1968 Fixin' Shit that Ain't Broke Valued Senior Member

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    Many shows are also available online for free. The resolution isn't as good, but you can watch whenever you want. The recent thread "The Bible is Bullshit" introduced me to the Penn and Teller show "Bullshit". I found it really funny, and wanted to watch more, but I don't have cable. I've been able to watch several seasons of the show online for free.
     
    MacGyver1968, Jul 9, 2010
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  9. Michael

    Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    I read that fast forwarding through a commercial has as much or more of an effect than watching it. It may be we concentrate more when we fast forward - leaving us with a longer lasting impression of the product, than if we were to passively sit through it... :shrug: Many commercials are made with the idea in mind that they will be fast forwarded. It's all about brainwashing their product logo into our minds so we subconsciously think: "hey I know that brand" when we go to the store or want something.


    I wonder what life was like with no advertising at all? Well, I guess there was always some sort of propaganda, from Church Bells ringing the time of day to the Stately buildings.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2010
    Michael, Jul 10, 2010
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  10. superstring01

    superstring01 Moderator

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    Have you fast-forwarded with a DVR? I can't even make out what the commercial is about, let alone who the product is. I can--literally--make it past a 2.5 minute commercial in ten seconds. I have absolutely no idea what is going on, and usually go so far into the next segment of the program that I have to rewind, albeit at a much slower pace.

    ~String
     
    superstring01, Jul 10, 2010
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  11. Michael

    Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Is a DVR like Tivo? I think I read that in New Scientist. Maybe it was BS, but if I remember correctly, because you're actually concentrating on getting through the commercials you're focused on what you're seeing. That little extra mental focus is likely to create a better long-term memory - compared with merely staring off into space thinking about work/life/etc.... Even if the product is pictured only briefly, and you may not even consciously notice it, your brain retains the information much better.

    It might be worth looking this study up. Maybe tomorrow when I have time I'll take a look around.
     
    Michael, Jul 10, 2010
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  12. Ganymede

    Ganymede Valued Senior Member

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    If you're remotely savvy you can find any show in HD quality, at-least the popular ones. Any show I want to watch I just download it, then stream it from my computer through my PS3 to my HDTV.
     
    Ganymede, Jul 10, 2010
    #9
  13. soullust

    soullust Registered Senior Member

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    Maybe this will answer your main question?
     
    soullust, Jul 10, 2010
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  14. (Q)

    (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    $$$$$$$

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    Don't worry, soon that hardware will be a boat anchor as that most likely will move to online. It is most certainly a business opportunity for a smart entrepreneur.

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    (Q), Jul 10, 2010
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  15. phlogistician

    phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Yeah, I need to find the registry value for the 2nd degree of fast forward on my Media Centre. The first level isn't fast enough, press that button again and it's all a blur, and I often overshoot.
     
    phlogistician, Jul 10, 2010
    #12
  16. Fraggle Rocker

    Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Advertising as we know it arose (in the U.S. anyway) in the 1890s. That was when the Industrial Revolution reached the tipping point in productivity and our economy switched from scarcity-driven to surplus-driven. In a scarcity-driven economy you don't need advertising because people will buy everything that's available. Many social changes occurred at that time. Christmas, for example, did not originally emphasize gift-giving, but once there was a surplus of stuff, it became an excuse to convince people to buy stuff and give stuff to each other. The Coca-Cola company basically invented the modern Santa Claus, as part of an advertising campaign to induce people to buy ice-cold soft drinks in wintertime.
    But that's not commercial advertising.
    My DVR has four speeds. Low gear is only about 2:1 so it's practically useless. But second gear is about 8:1, so by the time I realize that I've passed the commercial and get my finger on the button, it's about two minutes into the next scene. So I have the choice of rewinding at 2:1 and taking an entire minute, or rewinding at 8:1 and being just as far off in the opposite direction. Some shows flash their own logo at the end of the commercials so you know they're over, I really appreciate that.

    Third gear is about 20:1, only for fast forwarding segments of variety or interview shows that I don't want to watch. Fourth gear, which is about 40:1, actually comes in handy, believe it or not, but only because the damn Comcast DVR is such a piece of crap. Sometimes it malfunctions and rewinds the program to zero, and I have to fast-forward it 45 or 50 minutes to get back to where I left off.
    Yes, digital video recorder is the generic term. TiVo is the brand name of a bundled product that includes the DVR, a schedule for the individual user's cable company, and software with much more functionality than the DVRs marketed by the cable TV companies. For example, it can be directed to record a program that has been in progress for thirty minutes; my DVR only goes back five. It also has AI to record programs it thinks you might like, based on your viewing habits, and it's easily networked into computer systems.
    I would believe that for a VCR, which had a fairly slow, steady and clean fast-forward image. DVR fast-forwards are difficult to interpret visually, which is why it's so hard to find the end of the commercials.

    What really happens is that the best you can do is position your recording somewhere in the last one or two commercials before the show, and watch them FF more slowly in first gear. Perhaps the networks are starting to charge more for that position!
     
    Fraggle Rocker, Jul 11, 2010
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  17. superstring01

    superstring01 Moderator

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    We, apparently, have the same DVR. Silver Scientific Atlanta, 8300?

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    ~String
     
    superstring01, Jul 11, 2010
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  18. TBodillia

    TBodillia Registered Senior Member

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    I have Dish Network and their DVR. I don't have "on demand" programming outside of pay-per-view programming, but I do have one extra special feature (that I thought all DVRs had): a 30 second skip button. Now I see Dish seems to be the only only equipped with that commercial skipping button.

    The problem with the cable company keeping all programming on hard drives instead of broadcasting...You would be complaining about the slow download speeds. Everybody on the network trying to download every single show they wish to watch would create quite a bit of lag. Apple's/ATT's network went down when so many people tried to order the new Iphone at once. Try to imagine everybody trying to download some very popular program at the same time.
     
    TBodillia, Jul 11, 2010
    #15
  19. madanthonywayne

    madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    I have Tivo and I can believe what you're saying. It does take some concentration to fast forward properly. Also, once in a while you'll be fast forwarding thru a commercial and a pop up commercial will appear on the screen until you stop fast forwarding!
     
    madanthonywayne, Jul 11, 2010
    #16
  20. pjdude1219

    pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    yeah but they can be shut down for copy right infringement. the one i went to just got busted by ICE
     
    pjdude1219, Jul 11, 2010
    #17
  21. pjdude1219

    pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    tivo is a DVR
     
    pjdude1219, Jul 11, 2010
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  22. Fraggle Rocker

    Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    No, it's a Motorola DCT3416I with a Comcast logo. It's clearly not your unit re-badged.
    They download each show to everybody, at the same time, in real time, now! Considering that they can handle all of their customers' internet traffic simultaneously in real time, which requires far more bandwidth, I'm not convinced that they couldn't do this with perhaps a little more hardware at HQ. It doesn't really take 60 minutes to download a one-hour program.

    Even if they can't do it now, I'm sure they will be able to in a couple of years, as the technology improves.

    Perhaps the FIOS carriers can do it.

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    Fraggle Rocker, Jul 11, 2010
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  23. phlogistician

    phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Except it wouldn't be the cable company hosting the content necessarily, why involve a 3rd party?

    In the UK, we have various 'On Demand' services;

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/

    http://www.itv.com/ITVPlayer/?intcmp=NAV_ITVPLAYE2

    http://www.channel4.com/programmes/4od

    http://demand.five.tv/Home.aspx

    Hosting free content, plus of course, commercial efforts;

    http://skyplayer.sky.com/vod/page/default/home.do?DCMP=ILC-GENSKYCOM_DTH

    and guess what?

    No bandwidth problems. I use the catch up services quite a bit. and I have 10Mb broadband over cable. Fibre is available for even greater bandwidth.
     
    phlogistician, Jul 12, 2010
    #20
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