Why do theists reject evolution?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xelasnave.1947, Apr 11, 2020.

  1. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Yet, in other posts, you said you accept Darwinism. And now, it's a lie?
     
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  3. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Show me a post where I say I accept darwinism.
     
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  5. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Natural selection
    These are the key points of evolution by natural selection:

    • Individuals in a species show a wide range of variation.
    • Inherited variation is due to differences in their genes.
    • Individuals with the features that are best suited to the environment are more likely to survive and reproduce.
    • The genes that allow these individuals to be successful are passed to their offspring.
    • Individuals that are poorly adapted to their environment are less likely to survive and reproduce. This means that their genes are less likely to be passed to the next generation.
    • Over many generations these small differences add up to the new evolution of species.
    Given enough time, a population may change so much it may even become a new species, unable to reproduce successfully with individuals of the original species.

    ————————————————————————

    Jan said: I agree with every point, bar the last bullet point (depending on what it means), and the conclusion.

    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/wh...retend-to-discuss.160197/page-40#post-3625429
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    You said you accepted evolution. You also said you agreed Darwinism is evolution. QED.
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    The news reports of these declarations were published in major newspapers.

    As to the "voice of God";
    "And since by the divine right of Apostolic primacy the Roman Pontiff is placed over the universal Church, we further teach and declare that he is the supreme judge of the faithful, and that in all causes, the decision of which belongs to the Church, recourse may be had to his tribunal, and that none may re-open the judgment of the Apostolic See, than whose authority there is no greater, nor can any lawfully review its judgment. Wherefore they err from the right course who assert that it is lawful to appeal from the judgments of the Roman Pontiffs to an œcumenical Council, as to an authority higher than that of the Roman Pontiff."
    — Vatican I, Pastor Aeternus, ch. I, III

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_supremacy
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    "Believe the evidence" is the operative term.......difference!

    There is no evidence of "created complexity". That is a "false belief", based on wishful thinking.
    There is plenty evidence of "evolved complexity". That is a "true belief", based on demonstrable facts.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Are you proposing the Pope may not be a theist?
    But not Darwinian evolution, right?
    And you accept a "divine inspiration" which has no evidence to support it.
    Oh I see, these Popes were just two drunken guys having a beer in the neighborhood bar, talking about the latest office rumors?....

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    Theism stinks? Helloooooo.....that's a new twist.
    Is there still hope for you, Jan? Or are you into a different realm altogether?
     
  11. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, it is an obvious straw man (lie) that anyone here ever refuted that we cannot observer all the way back to the Big Bang. That has nothing to do with your ire against theism. An atheist finding support among other atheists is neither surprising nor validating.
    You citing a source that claims to know what occurred "at the time of the Big Bang", counters what you've already admitted:
    "We can only speculate before that {"at t+10-43 seconds"}." http://sciforums.com/threads/defini...-to-rule-them-all.163061/page-18#post-3636481
    IQ tests tell me all I need to know about any possible pretense.
    Another sad straw man, as I don't believe in the hell of the Bible. Can't very well preach what I don't believe. Again, I'm not even a Christian.
    Again, it's a straw man that anyone has claimed creationism was scientific.
    I get that you don't understand the difference. Argument ad populum is when someone asserts a claim is true solely because many people believe it, like your "which most here now support". I've never claimed theism was true simply because a lot of people believe it. I've said that there must be some reason so many believe, but freely admit that is not compelling.


    No, you don't have to read any narrative "non-linearly" for it to introduce story points as needed, rather than strictly chronological. Books, movies, TV shows, water cooler talk, etc. do this all the time. You need to get out more. Genesis 2 is clearly a non-linear narrative, since Genesis 1 clearly established the chronology. Actually comprehending what you read beats bias-motivated error seeking any day.

    Yes, unlike you , I don't twist the Bible for my own agenda.


    Yeah, I'd be uninterested too, if I ignored the actual points being made:
    "But if we lacked the ability to comprehend it, it's completely moot."​
    If God communicated the Bible in a way men couldn't understand, it wouldn't have been written.

    Never said anything I believe was compelling. Just because a simple understanding of English makes the Bible easy to comprehend, that doesn't, itself, make it true. Personally, I think (like orthodox Jews) that the creation story is largely allegorical.
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    There is no support among atheists. There is a common attitude towards religion, but atheism is not a lifestyle. It is a recognition that the concept of a motivated creative entity cannot exist as described in the bible.
    True. That's why the bible is not a communication from god, but from men trying to make sense of something they did not understand.
    It is the second part of that original sentence I object to.
    I explained the definition of prima facie. (on the face of it, face value).

    But the bible is only easy to understand for simple minds, just as the original authors of the Oral traditions were simple (not stupid) people trying to convey a concensus message about a "fertile environment for evolutionary processes" and how this was bestowed on mankind by gods for the gods' personal reasons and desires, which is a wishful afterthought.

    I merely say, drop the gods and gods' wishes and life will become considerable less morally confusing than it is now.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
    Xelasnave.1947 likes this.
  13. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    No not a lie, just fact and reality....and of course more to the point of your other nonsense, A religious fanatic finding support among other religious fanatics is neither surprising nor validating.
    Your comprehension of scientific literature certainly needs attention at best. The link explains the BB pertaining to the observable universe, it does not dispute any fact re the BB and GR for that matter, only being able to interpret back to that first Planck instant.
    Whatever weird mythical creationist and afterlife myth you are preaching, is certainly the fire and brimstone rhetoric practised by other preachers in their Sunday pulpits.
    Bingo, some limited progress anyway...just like other claims of supernatural and paranormal myth that are unscientific.
    You seem falsely obsessed with strawmen as much as you are with ad-hom accustations.
    Your confusion and misinterpretation are askew again

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    and of course being obtuse along with it. "most here now support" and this science forum, is not the be all and end all of the scientific world. Unlike your religious affiliations and propaganda preaching, science is forever a discipline in eternal progress. GR is being tested everyday, in efforts to find limitations and usurp the great man. And to educate you further, theism is simply accepted due to convention/s handed down generation by generation, and of course that fear such people have of the finality of death.

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  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Festivus pole

    TypeSecular
    SignificanceA holiday celebrated as an alternative to the pressures and commercialism of the Christmas holiday season.
    CelebrationsAiring of Grievances, Feats of Strength, the aluminum pole, Festivus dinner, Festivus miracles
    DateDecember 23
    FrequencyAnnual



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  15. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Notice whenever Jan gets called on his "Show me where I said..." statements, he falls silent. I keep insisting he smokes way too much pot.
     
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    He will do that for a few days. Then he will say "I never said that. You are lying." Then I will post his words saying that. Then he will start in with "Well, not really. That depends on what the meaning of 'is' is. But I guess you're too stupid to understand that words have many meanings." It's a familiar two-step at this point.
     
  17. foghorn Registered Senior Member

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    Allow me Q. Jan seems to be not accepting a species can give rise to another species over generations. In other words he's saying, all species would have their own origin, and not evolve from other species. He doesn't like our cousins the ape. Ask him where does Homo sapiens have their origin??
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
  18. foghorn Registered Senior Member

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    I maybe wrong, but I think Jan doesn't hold with a species giving rise to a new species, because of his belief in reincarnation.
    Probably because it would mean the soul has not always been in the Homo Sapien line.

     
  19. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    My original point still stands. As many here have now explicitly demonstrated, many atheists do, indeed, equate abiogenesis with evolution, and thereby claim evolution is in direct conflict with creation. It's not true, of course, but there's no educating the willfully ignorant. The intellectually honest must admit that we do not know the origin of life. Belief in abiogenesis is as lacking in physical evidence as creation. Faith in science (scientism) makes presumptions that there is no physical evidence to support. Just blind faith that one day there will be. And this is precisely why many theists reject evolution. Because those who tout it make claims about it beyond what science can verify. And since those same people claim to be the most educated in science, many theists believe their unsupported claims.

    And as also demonstrated, questioning the scientism of the willfully ignorant doesn't elicit supporting evidence of their claims. It only elicits insult and lies. That's to be expected when people are desperate to quell their own cognitive dissonance.
     
  20. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Wow!!!

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    Typical redneck inspired bullshit and rhetorical superstitious nonsense, that's spouted by pastors week in, week out, in pulpits all over the world, based on irrational fear of the unknown and the finality of death.

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  21. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    How does that leave creationists?
    Alex
     
  22. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks for so quickly demonstrating the lies, insults, and zero supporting evidence alluded to.
    I even like the picture.


    Didn't say it did. At least creationists admit theirs is a belief. Those who tout abiogenesis don't even have that much intellectual honesty.
     
  23. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Insults?? ad-homs??? Pot, kettle, black!

    Simply put, there is no other scientific answer, other then abiogenesis...You know that, but practice deception and dishonesty to avoid it.

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