Why do some people dislike/hate/oppose Christianity.

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Living Sacrifice, Mar 12, 2002.

  1. Living Sacrifice Registered Member

    Messages:
    5
    I would like to know why some people of faiths other than Christianity dislike/hate/oppose it. I would like to especially hear some things from atheists. I'm not here to prove anyone wrong or argue with anyone, but hear some perspectives from people that don't agree with me.

    Please don't use this post as a "Christians hate gay people/Christians killed thousands in the Crusades" thread. I want to hear some more perspectives that involve personal experience.

    If you guys and girls would enlighten me on any positions you wish to share, I would be very happy and eager to talk to you about them.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    -Ben
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    35,532
    It's really pretty simple. People of other faiths just don't believe the Christian story and all that goes along with it. If it directly conflicts with their own favoured story, it is natural that they will oppose it. That's an attitude not restricted to anti-Christian views.

    In the case of atheists and agnostics, it becomes important to separate different aspects and types of Christianity. An atheist might very well agree with many of the moral principles espoused by Christians. However, he or she will not, in general, agree in the supernatural aspects of the religion. Similarly, many people who call themselves Christian nevertheless will vehemently disagree with biblical fundamentalists, since that approach is in direct conflict with observable fact.

    Then there are issues with preaching, which anybody can have. Many people don't like having points of view shoved in their faces whether they want them or not. Some Christians feel it is their duty to convert the heathen masses, and it is understandable that the masses generally aren't so keen on being converted. They want to decide for themselves.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,943
    Okay, I'll use the 'Christians started the Inquisition/killed millions with thier stupid-ass religious wars' thread.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Well, I skipped lunch and breakfast, and had a nice pizza with mozzerela cheese, pesto, and tomatos for dinner.

    And all I know about 'hating' Xtianity is that some Objectivists think that the altruism they think Xtianity commands is stupid.

    For the record, Christianity is not particularly altruistic and Rand's criticisms were based on a misreading of 'thou shalt not judge'. But, this hardly qualifys as hate.

    And I've never met anyone who actually hated Christianity. I've met some who came close to dislike....

    Edit to add: Have you, Living? I must say, I'd rather see Russel Crowe in gladiatorial costume much more than Pat Roberson.

    Ugh. Sorry for the mental image.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. tetra Hello Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    144
    hmmm.

    I could be have a life expectancy of a thousand years and be living in space, if it weren't for

    THE DARK AGES
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2002
  8. Markx Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    970
    So you want to exclude two reasons why people hate christianity?
    By the way when you used word hate, I think it is pretty strong word. I am not sure what you are trying to pull but its not that people hate christianity itself, but it goes beyond that. I think it is also depends on a country as well. Religion can be just an excuse. Just to mention that Christianity hates other religions as well.
    Oh and btw Why did you change name and come here with different name. If I am not mistaking you are KALVINB. Anyways it is none of my bussines thou. But still its funny.
     
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,553
    Puritans, Devils, Ephesians ... oh my!

    It's an interesting request. Accepting as we have the presence of those "crimes" of Christianity past, we might, as you suggest, look to the contemporary execution of Chritianity to discover what motivates the contemporary regard.

    I lived in Oregon from '91-'96, voting in the state in all those years. In 1990, Christians scored local victories against the First Amendment, proscribing the rights of homosexuals in accordance with their Biblical interpretations. The fight still goes on, despite a Colorado victory being gutted by the Supreme Court. Now, as much as we would like to look past such institutionally-founded idiocies, we cannot escape the fact that those idiocies of institution are impossible without people--that is, individuals--subscribing to the institution.

    Thus the bigotry extends down to the personal level; I know a good many Christians whose definition of equality is Christian supremacy. Co-workers, smoke-break associates, and people in taverns, when issues of Christian authority arise, seem to feel that unless society adopts Christianity as its model, the rights of Christians are violated. Thus, I have attended book-banning hearings at which a Christian asserted that their right to free expression and free religion is violated by the presence of books which disagree with them. Quite personally, I'm tired of it. In my life, Christianity threatens to be the undoing of the liberty which has allowed what human progress we have achieved in our nation.

    On the human level, I can't count the number of times this has been reinforced. One need not look to the press or the libraries to prove this. Personally, I can encapsulate the tale of my aunt quite conveniently here. Dissatisfied with life, she joined a church, seeking social grounding. Within months, she had nearly destroyed her marriage and family.

    She attempted to forbid her 19 year-old daughter entry to the family home over the issue of the movie Last Temptation of Christ. Disgusted at the slatterny of a daughter, she once kicked the girl out of the house, leaving no place for her to go except to the boyfriend's, and we can guess what happened there. The books she acquired during that phase (Dr Dobson and others) were utterly distasteful; at the time I recoiled from their condescending tone; the more reflective summary of those family-guidance books is that my aunt chose a theory that reduced people to automatons with specific instructions and no real will. The reliance on arbitrary standards of right and wrong amazes me. We could say that, at one point, the home officially reached the point that children are to be seen and not heard. Communication and understanding were undermined in favor of obedience and dogma. Quite frankly, it was only after she ditched the Missouri Synod, took dancing lessons, and moved onto the boat with her estranged husband (who fled the insanity) that the family got healthy again. Coincidentally, of the daughters, three lived in the home when she started her holier-than-thou kick. One moved out, and is an RN. The youngest is close to her RN, and the daughter kicked out of the house and forbidden entry into the home--who was amid her rebellious phase when hostile religion invaded the house, caught the worst of it. By whatever standard of human results, that daughter is the only one adrift; soon to be married, on her way to her third child, and absolutely not a functional brain cell in her skull. Believe me: the differences 'twixt my regard for the Christian experience at, say, 10. 13, and 17 changed dramatically. Each phase has a certain impact. I watch the youngest daughter, close to her RN, and wonder about those differences. Why was she not so screwed as the other? Well, when she got to that point, the storm had passed. There's that, at least. In the end, my aunt has not dropped her religion, but has returned to the more tolerant, reasonable, and less-ridiculous flock of mainstream Lutheranism.

    Of Lutherans, I can tell you a good deal. I'm a confirmed Lutheran, and at force of law. That may sound strange in the United States, but a condition of my scandalous adoption into the current family was that I be given a certain degree of Christian education.

    So in my time among the Lutherans, I watched scandalous people chase out a pastor who might, had my experience been consistently positive under his tutelage, have kept me in the flock. The nicest guy in the world chased out on trumped-up (never proven nor prosecuted) charges of indecent liberties ... it was political. His replacement was as uber-conservative as you can get without being Missouri Synod. HIs method of educating young people in the ways of Christ included frequent excoriations, overturned furniture, and hurled Bibles. When a child asked him a question that he could not answer--e.g. confusion about Alpha/Omega, &c--his answer was that the child was either idiotic or insane.

    I used to watch Robert Tilton's Success-n-Life ministry purely for the comedy factor. In addition to physically reminding me of Satan, good Bob used to heal via the airwaves; it was amazing. In fact, a little-known thrash band called Panic included a sample of his show on their album. I was thrilled that a local band making a national statement had chosen to ridicule the same Dallas, Texas-based ministry that kept me rolling on the floor. Nonetheless, to consider that televangelism is a multibillion-dollar entertainment industry, I personally resented this profiteer threatening me in order to make money. The condemnation of those not Christian, the constant harping on money and labels, these are hallmarks of Christianity in America in the late twentieth century.

    In high school, among Catholics, the list is endless. In fact, this Christian sect undid my a priori regard for the sanctity of sexuality. Much like La Vey and the circus patrons, I watched my fellow students kneel for absolution on Friday mornings and kneel to give fellatio on Friday night. Falling in love was a dangerous affair of the heart; it was safest to never fall in love. And I hold this standard of conduct against Christianity for all time. How dare the needs and considerations of faith create a state where human sanctity is elastic and arbitrary. But, that's the Christians for you.

    There were the publicly-touted anti-abortion missions to the state capital which the school liked to remind were an education in civic participation, in equality, in free expression.

    Needless to say, the dissenters were kept under lock and key. Political cartoons disagreeing with the school's "free expression" policy--even those that weren't cruel lampoons like Ed the Horse's Ass or Lollipop Nazi--earned suspensions.

    If your parents kicked you out of the house, they were to call the school. The student would be suspended and banned from campus until returning home. Yes, that's as backwards as it seems. One of our students ended up in prison after one of those; his dad threw him out for something--I think it was joyriding in the car--and the school suspended him. A couple of afternoons later, he was attacked on the street and, in a youthful burst of enthusiasm, beat the guy within an inch of his life. The result of the solution is so encouraging, right?

    And I'm at the center of one of those scandals, too. As a junior in high school, I met a lovely freshman whose mother disliked the notion of her daughter going to prom with a 17 year-old. Well and fine, but after she was kicked out of the house over the issue, she went to a friend's house. Her friend took her to a party and ditched her there to be taken by several men. Bruised and cut, I still remember the last time I talked to her.

    The school expelled her. Her mother trundled her off to somewhere, and I've never found her again.

    Compassion?

    You know, my grandmother, a Baptist first and then a Lutheran, was thrilled when I was accepted to a Catholic school, so much so that she made my inheritance (she was dying when we got word that I was in) a sum specifically to ensure that I could finish out there. And this is the woman who bombarded my brother and I with books and records when we were young; Evie, and the Gaithers were often our Christmas carols; children's tales reminded us of how small and useless we were, and how God--who created us as such--loved us anyway. From the start, my involvement with Christians has worked to reduce the human condition.

    I can remember a specific conversation with one of the lay instructors who took me to task for "reading notes during Mass". I asked him why I shouldn't look to see what just hit me in the head. Hit you in the head? Yeah, _____ threw it at D____ and it bounced off his head and landed in my lap. Well, that's irrelevant. Why is that? Because I didn't see ____ throw it. Yes, but you'll notice it's a profane letter to D signed by _____. I know, and that's why I'm disappointed in you both for reading notes in Mass. Do you have no respect for Jesus Christ Your Lord And Savior? Wait, wait, wait. How is it my fault that someone wrote this down and threw it at me? I asked you a question. Do you have no respect for Jesus Christ Your Lord And Savior? It should be noted that the composing party was a Christian, and that neither D____ or I stayed close to the faith. It was a lesson in justice among Christians: We do no wrong, even when we do wrong.

    There was the time the young, faithful Christian chap who had argued with me the day before in Theology class (an unsupportable thesis) accused me of arson. The sad thing was that yes, he was standing right there when the flame-spurting smoke bomb was dropped into the trash can near my locker, but telling the truth would have meant pointing the finger at one of his mates from CYO, or whatever that group was called (Catholic Youth Organization?)

    Or how about the time horses were slaughtered in a mountain town about an hour from the school? Four girls went to the priests and told them that a friend and I listened to "Satanic" music. I had an interesting conversation with the priests about my whereabouts on the evening in question.

    Or the girl I worked with who told me (around '94, while I was still in Oregon) that it "hurt her heart" to think of all the faggots sinning against God. Yeah, it hurts my cock to think that she doesn't give head, but you don't see me waving it on a political banner, do you?

    Maybe the Mennonite boss, with whom I got along reasonably well except for one disagreement we agreed to never broach again. Simply, he tried to fire me once for being unable to perform the physically impossible. Rhetoric aside, I can say that other aspects of his personality taught me a couple of things about how he regarded his faith. He was, simply, right in all things.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    And here's the thing: people are people, no matter what they choose to call themselves. Christians, however, put certain conditions on their humanity that ring false when given scrutiny.

    One need not be a Christian in order to be deceptive, ruthless, hateful, or stupid. But, statistically, it does seem to help one along the way to duplicity. After all, this capsule is the short list of personal experiences. Should I tell you how many times I counseled girls abused by their fathers who never said anything because the Bible says you're not supposed to talk bad about your parents? Should I dredge up the protest vigil I attended in 1992 after a Christian firebombed a house to punish the two suspected gay people inside, and this in the middle of election season with a measure on the ballot to exscind the civil rights of people based on the genders of their sexual partners?

    Should we, then, consider second grade, when a girl in my class spent a good period frightened out of her mind because her sister had fallen gravely ill and her parents told her that God did it because the girl had lied?

    Or, perhaps, my neighbors when I was five, whose youngest daughter suffered brain damage after the parents refused medical treatment for fever and infection in accordance with their (pseudo) Christian faith.

    How about the unusually high number of associates and friends (who, incidentally, are quite unusually high these days) who call themselves "escapees" of the Seventh-Day Adventist church? A quick perusal through an SDA bookstore is a frightening experience. The Pope is the Devil, the UN will put all Sabbatarians (Saturday-worshippers) to the electric chair, ad nauseam (I won't revisit the stupidity about bicycles.) What about the fact that none of them are "normal" in the commonly-regarded sense? All of them have sexual hangups or obsessions that have the power to derail relationships; all of them have an attention complex that compels them to interrupt any conversation in order to relate something mundane, irrelevant, and about themselves.

    Understand, please, that it's not like one has to go out and dig up dirt on Christianity in practice. Rather, the adherents seem to sling that dirt and mud around as if it was the holy spirit itself.

    Might we turn introspective, for a moment, then, and look at our fellow posters at Sciforums? Blonde Cupid and I had a disagreement, recently, about such issues. But certain Christian advocates come out swinging, with cruelty and condemnation on their tongues; we would like to be able to say, as an infidel community, that such occasions are deviations, apostasies, or machinations of provocateurs. But among those Christians are the occasional reminders that, despite the Bible, they have no obligation to be forgiving, understanding, or anything less than combative. Of course, we might also point out that the removal of forgiveness, empathy, and necessity of peace under given conditions is exactly what some of our Christian posters complain about in, say, Islam. So it's a bad thing when the holy book of Islam says to defend yourself, but a good thing when a Christian sacks the Bible and goes off on a personal rampage.

    A lot of people of integrity have put down the Bible and walked away because it is impossible to abide. When Blonde Cupid and I were arguing the subject, we had a row going on where a number of people were irritated at one or two of our Christian posters for their incessant need to interrupt topics and prevent their progress. There are some incredible diversions in some of these topics. But as to those points, we might note that what we see in Sciforums rhetoric is, quite often, accurately microcosmic of reality. There is nothing about diversionary tactics, manipulative citation, or outright condemnation going on at this site that is unfamiliar to any infidel examining the Christian menagerie. One of my frequent notions here is that Christians should clean up their own damn house before bugging the rest of us. You'll note the number of disparaging comments at Sciforums about the "Christian intellect", and, yes, I'm one of the chief proponents of that phalanx. Of course, I get my phrase, that faith is a sacrifice of the intellect, from the Christians, so I have no difficulty bandying it with reckless disregard.

    And it shows, too. Our creationist posters rely on two issues: they seem to expect that the scientific process should be as closed, fixed, and finished as the Biblical canon. Take the transitional fossil debate: yes there are transitional fossils, no there aren't, and then a bunch of nitpicking until we reach the incredibly exacting piece of evidence the Creationist seeks. And then we look at a simple point: have we found all the fossils that there are to find?

    The second issue is a matter of a priori. As any scientist will point out, presently Creationism is not a valid scientific theory because it includes untestable demands. Furthermore, unlike other theoretic sciences, nobody has developed a working hypothesis that will enable us to address the untestable demands. Thus, to accept scientific proof that God created the world according to the Bible, one of the things we need on the table is the existence of God, currently the primary a priori. Yet the creationists will counter that we cannot disprove the existence of God, scientifically. Well, that's the thing: there is nothing to observe objectively. And again we see a failing of the creationist process. That we cannot presently observe God does not mean conclusively that He does not exist. However, the observable environment of scientific investigation shows that considerations of God would be arbitrary insertions of data with no foundation in the observed environment. The creationists demand that science observe what is not there and say that it is. Now, is this like bacteria and other microbes? A matter of observational technique and capability? Again, we see the creationist faction failing to put forth any theories to help us work toward observing God.

    In this sense, then, I think we see a sacrifice of the intellect: the clinging to faith in lieu of observable reality. That the only support for creationism is that the scientific process doesn't finish is quite telling. I can resent Christianity for the dullardness it seems to breed, but that's a little harsh, eh? So the question becomes, then, why should Christians demand the rewriting of the scientific standard to accommodte them? It's almost as if, failing to prove their faith objectively true according to the scientific rules, they wish to rewrite the scientific process to establish God a priori. Faith is one thing; that Christians should deign themselves worthy to legislate my life anywhere in this world is a far different issue. Much like the Christian sexual psychosis, these poitics ask me to subscribe to somehting which is demonstrably not true. Communism has failed, and Captialism is undergoing a facelift that leaves it as theoretically utopiate as the Reds, and why is it that the conceptual failure of Christianity only compels the adherents to beat themselves and everyone else against the wall even more?

    Among Communism's failures, most apparent is its idealism; the failure to execute is almost foretold by the nature of Marxism. Its fundamental flaw in this sense is its optimism in human nature--we see what the failure to recognize what certain corruptions brings to Communism. Similarly, where Christianity fails is its idealism; the failure to execute is indeed foretold by the nature of the Bible. Look around, surf the web, read the tracts you find in the phone booth or get from the Watchtower crusaders, Watch the televangelists, visit your local church and listen to the preacher; listen to your Christian friends, family, and neighbors expound on the nature of their faith in their very words and actions. Like snowflakes, no two people's faiths can be shown to be the same. To a degree, this is determined by the diversity of human experience. But the Bible leaves many places wide open to various and contradictory interpretations, as any Christian/political issue demonstrates. Unlike Communism, though, a fundamental flaw of Christianity is its gloomy perception of humanity; weak, corrupted, dependent.

    And this gloomy perception has brought, frankly, hideous results. However, as you've noted, we're not here to harp on history.

    The problem is that, even though we're not burning people at the stake, Christians are carrying out a certain amount of cultural extinction. I know that many Christians do not agree with the policies of other Christians. This is self-evident. Yet in this sense what are we, the infidels, the potential converts, the targets of wrath to think? In all my dealings with Christianity and Christians, I have not been compelled to willingly join the flock.

    That many Christians, even those of my acquaintance and association, might advocate the ideas and notions I find so distasteful casts Christianity in a disturbing light. It should only be opposed when it attempts to govern or narrow a free society. (It should be noted here that I believe all societies should be free; I wholly support the notion of one world, save for the simple fact that my conditions for agreeing to it are, frankly, utopiate.) And of this notion of what I find tasteful: Quite simply, Christianity claims for itself what it will not extend to others. In terms of the larger institution, this is quite nakedly obvious. But how does it become that without the (silent, perhaps?) endorsement of the many individual Chrisians. Of those I've known, of course they're not uniform in their thought and conduct. But they do display frighteningly similar traits in matters of comparison--e.g. authority--in social relations.

    In fact, were it not for the Society of Friends in general, and the specific fact that human beings tend to be themselves despite all else--thus maintaining a degree of diversity--I would long ago have undertaken an active opposition to Christian growth.

    I do find the philosophy damaging to the human race. I find it a hideous scourge. But that doesn't make a Christian hideous, and that doesn't mean we're seeing the true face.

    Unfortunately, though, Christianity often works to perpetuate a blissful degree of ignorance. By relying on faith, all manner of snakes slither from the woodwork of the cross. I'm not blaming Christianity for the diet-freaks or the anti-medicine crowd; we understand ... look what happened to Communism, to any paradigm entrusted to the human conscience. But I will damn well blame it for the institutional failures we're not going to harp on, and I will blame it for the effect it has on people, and I will blame it for the damage those people can cause, and I will blame it for the perpetuation of superstitious division in society. I hold it responsible for the crisis in my aunt's marriage, though not for the idiocy of her middle daughter. Things don't have to go the way they do. It's only out of unjustified fear that they do.

    And people are free to believe what they want. And yes, to preach it as advantageous. But the spread of Christianity seems to me like the spread of disease, a malady across the land. Get rid of all the Falwells, Mabons, Tiltons, Wildmonds and others, and you still have to deal with that unruly mass of people who, in day to day life, just aren't very nice by virtue of their priorities. For instance, if it wasn't for the fact that my daily Christian experience seemed distasteful, I might never have noticed the frightening degree of social-developmental arrest among Christians and those weird American post-Christians.

    A girlfriend once took me to a Carman concert; I was 18 at the time. It was scary. Terrifying, actually. I looked around at the sea of people, at least twenty-thousand of them, and thought, You're kidding me ....

    When I was in college--and this is only slightly a gay-hating story--the campus ministry ran a Jesus Week complete with its gay-bashing session, sponsored by Exodus International. Okay ... they brought in high school students from a local parochial school. Some evangelical Protestant something-or-another ... by the time they were railing through the Old Testament, I just had to ask the unkind speaker about the handicapped, cf Leviticus 21.16-ff. One of the parochial students leapt to her feat and screamed Ephesians 6.11 at me, which apparently answered the question for that tribe.

    I'm so impressed with the young lady's intellectual prowess, and the way she waved her finger in the air like Claire Huxtable and threw her hands in the air and danced around like an old-tymie revival. That is to say that she seemed about as bright as a stump.

    If more Christians could consider actual answers in a Biblical context instead of rebuking ideas for even existing, many of Christianity's more active skeptics would be more inclined to let the offensive ones just pass on by like any other jabbering lunatic. But that's the problem: you'd be amazed at how many jabbering lunatics I come across. And for various reasons, the biggest problem is that they can't keep that distinctive brand of self-righteousness out of daily life. I've seen it happen before that a guy changed his afternoon break time to avoid a certain number of us. Not because we jumped down his throat, but because we didn't affirm and hurrah him. That is to say, it became obvious to him at some point that everybody was doing their best not to call him out. You know, that way subjects just seem to drop? I knew it, and I'm sure everybody knew it. Don't start or it becomes a feeding frenzy. I've also seen it where we made a conscious effort to let such things drop because we know the guy has kids and we're not about to send him packing for being just another idiot that doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut. We forgive other slips, why not these?

    And to me it seems like it should be simple. There are healthy ways to spread Christianity. However, it requires that Christianity be healthy in the first place and I just don't find it to be so. Not to my observation, not to my judgment, not to my experience.

    I, for one, refuse to look forward to the end of the world.

    Don't get me started on the Devil. Just like the idiots at the computer store up the street--Apple specialists, my ass--make the idea of a Windows box less than unattractive, so, too, do Christians give me a Devil worth giving sympathy.

    Only Christians could make the Devil the Redeemer. Think about it--Christ died once. The Devil suffers and dies daily. And you know what really sucks about it? There doesn't appear to be any reason for it. I'll leave it at that for now because I said I shouldn't get started. But such conceptual cruelties lend much toward understanding the dark spectre of Christianity I've come to know and loathe.

    People keep telling me there's something better about it out there. Show me. Bring practice up to par with the prescribed rules. Did you know, for instance, that Jesus was gay?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    What I actually wish to point out from that is the author's focus on adultery. The gay-debate issue removed, the author still has a legitimate point. You'll notice that this Barna Research survey differs in two respects from the gay-Jesus author: seemingly lower divorce rates and (as an explanation for) a more exacting terminology. Cast a broad enough net--as Mr McKinley has--and I'm sure you can reach his numbers. But that specific is unimportant. (I provided the Barna survey for more ... reliable ... numbers.) He points out a certain degree of acceptability among Christians in the case of an adulterous--sinful--life, even to the point of endorsement by the churches.

    And I shouldn't care if anyone chooses to live that way, but the ideas that they perpetuate in the name of a truth they do not abide do, occasionally, require open opposition.

    To my personal experience, it has to do with the integrity of a force continually attempting to influence my life in some way, from the personal to the institutional. The only reason history is important is because it reminds us that this has been going on for a long time.

    You'd think people would learn; of course, conservative Protestantism is at the core of the American experience, so that might go a long way toward explaining it.

    thanx much,
    Tiassa

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  10. supernova_smash Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    31
    Jesus saves! (in the Bank on Montreal)

    http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/hitchens_16_4.html
    I found Hitchen's work quite interesting.

    I have learned that most generalizations are dangerous, and while you have many good points, they are mainly based on anecdotal evidence which is in my opinion weak support for any argument. If someone found one Christian that goes against most of the criteria you have set, almost your entire argument would be compromised.

    I will agree that the experiences you describe are not at all becoming to Christianity, and it is understandable how you arrive at your conclusions. I simply do not share your opinion because I have had different experiences with Christians.

    This post will be elaborated on later, but I am deathly tired at the moment, please forgive

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    .
     
  11. Hoth Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    383
    I dislike Christianity mainly just because it's the dominant religion where I live. I feel it's not in my best interests for a religion to dominate like that... there would be less danger if there were a large number of religions with roughly equal membership rather than one dominant religion. In other words, with christians dominant there aren't any checks and balances to stop them from forcing their views and their ways of doing things onto everyone.
     
  12. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,415
    It's not that I particularly dislike christianity. I dislike all religions/philosophies that tell people how to live and tell people to accept Truths (TM) without reason. And the fact is organised religions are political entities that have caused a fudgeload of death and mayhem throughout the past few thousand years. We don't need them.
     
  13. Teg Unknown Citizen Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    672
    It's like a salvo nuclear missiles. You can't put your finger on exactly why you dislike it. You just know that it has the potential wreak havok on the world.
    Well put.
    You need to be more specific. Are we talking about every religious zealot I have heard speak. Those relentless Jehovah's Witness', our current president, televangilists, and any otherwise reasonable person when the conversation shifts to religion. Is it a coincidence that religion molds people into stammering idiots? What else would you expect from those taught not to question? What about those who would murder abortionist in the name of saving unborn fertus'? People who claim to be compassionate murder and harrass people due to sexual preference. And what about Bush. Let's destroy the planet in the name of the lord.
     
  14. LIGHTBEING Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    639
    I am one who dislikes Christianity. There is too much of the "My God is better then your God" mentality. And the Christian way is the only way and if you do not believe so then you will burn in Hell for Eternity. Organized religion in general is a curse and Christianity is on the front lines.

    I have dealt with many Christians in my life, specially within the last 4 years. For the most part they are all nice people, they mean well. But they feel that they are on a mission, that there is a Holy War going on for Human souls. That they need to save us from Hell, a concept that they adopted.

    Did I mention my wife converted to a Born again Christian about 3 or 4 years along in our relationship. We just got Married on Sept. 15 2001. We have been together since 94. Do you know how much unecessary stress this caused our relationship. One of her main objectives ofcoarse was to save me from the "Devil". She told me that I was going straight to Hell. It's like I didn't even know her anymore and it all happened within a couple of months. It got to the point were I couldn't look at her in the face.

    So, I took a step back and put everything into perspective. Religion is breaking us up....I don't think so. I mean, I love this girl. We met when I was 15 and she was 16(I like older women) and from that moment we were all about each other. I decided that our love was stronger than any kind of religion so I did some research. I also started to go to church with her, mainly for the experience and to listen to the Pastor preach. She figured I was just humoring her. Whatever the case may be, I learned a lot from the it.

    I began to read the Bible with an open mind and came up with a totally different conclusion then what Christians have. Why is that.....hhhmmmm???? I found myself wanting to raise my hand in church to give the Pastor a more reasonable answer. My wife would never take my theories seriously becasue it went dirrectly against the so-called "Holy Book" she lived her life by. It is not acceptable to question such an authority, the Bible.

    Then with further research I started becoming more confident in myself and what I believe in. I am now amazed at the beauty of the Universe and how it works. If anyone is searching for "God" I would encourage them to look at the Universe first before they surrender to some Book.

    Her family is also devout Christians. Nicest people in the world. But I know they feel the same way as any other Christain. That I am just an ignorant young man and if I don't change my ways then I will burn. Such a horrible concept that Christians adopted and abuse to convert.

    The Church that they belong to is like a Family. They do a lot of things together and me being the husband goes to most of these function. Even though they are boring. Most of them know I am not a Christian and I'm sure that they pray for me to stop my evilish ways.

    There is a couple that we hang out with from the church that are pretty cool. His father is actually the Pastor so you can imagine how Christian they are....lol. I guess I would call them my freinds but I will always remember the time when we got engaged and the couple took my fiance at the time and sat her down. They told her that she didn't have to go through with it and if she needed someone to talk to that they would be there. Basically they were trying to discourage her. They obviously didn't want their best freind marrying a hethen like me. In the Bible it states that Christians are not to marry outside of their Faith. Simply amazing....isn't it? I guess my wife is a sinner!!!! I also feel that my wife is envious of them because they have the perfect "Christian Marriage"

    Now, We have matured in many ways, mentally, spiritually, emotionally. I think she is more accepting of who I am and realizes that there is no possible way that I will ever be a Christian. I think I am slowly opening her mind up to new ideas and theories. I have her appreciating the Universe a lot more...that's for sure. But it still seems that she will take the Pastors word or her freinds word or her families word before mine.
     
  15. LIGHTBEING Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    639
    I am one who dislikes Christianity. There is too much of the "My God is better then your God" mentality. And the Christian way is the only way and if you do not believe so then you will burn in Hell for Eternity. Organized religion in general is a curse and Christianity is on the front lines.

    I have dealt with many Christians in my life, specially within the last 4 years. For the most part they are all nice people, they mean well. But they feel that they are on a mission, that there is a Holy War going on for Human souls. That they need to save us from Hell, a concept that they adopted.

    Did I mention my wife converted to a Born again Christian about 3 or 4 years along in our relationship. We just got Married on Sept. 15 2001. We have been together since 94. Do you know how much unecessary stress this caused our relationship. One of her main objectives ofcoarse was to save me from the "Devil". She told me that I was going straight to Hell. It's like I didn't even know her anymore and it all happened within a couple of months. It got to the point were I couldn't look at her in the face.

    So, I took a step back and put everything into perspective. Religion is breaking us up....I don't think so. I mean, I love this girl. We met when I was 15 and she was 16(I like older women) and from that moment we were all about each other. I decided that our love was stronger than any kind of religion so I did some research. I also started to go to church with her, mainly for the experience and to listen to the Pastor preach. She figured I was just humoring her. Whatever the case may be, I learned a lot from the it.

    I began to read the Bible with an open mind and came up with a totally different conclusion then what Christians have. Why is that.....hhhmmmm???? I found myself wanting to raise my hand in church to give the Pastor a more reasonable answer. My wife would never take my theories seriously becasue it went dirrectly against the so-called "Holy Book" she lived her life by. It is not acceptable to question such an authority, the Bible.

    Then with further research I started becoming more confident in myself and what I believe in. I am now amazed at the beauty of the Universe and how it works. If anyone is searching for "God" I would encourage them to look at the Universe first before they surrender to some Book.

    Her family is also devout Christians. Nicest people in the world. But I know they feel the same way as any other Christain. That I am just an ignorant young man and if I don't change my ways then I will burn. Such a horrible concept that Christians adopted and abuse to convert.

    The Church that they belong to is like a Family. They do a lot of things together and me being the husband goes to most of these function. Even though they are boring. Most of them know I am not a Christian and I'm sure that they pray for me to stop my evilish ways.

    There is a couple that we hang out with from the church that are pretty cool. His father is actually the Pastor so you can imagine how Christian they are....lol. I guess I would call them my freinds but I will always remember the time when we got engaged and the couple took my fiance at the time and sat her down. They told her that she didn't have to go through with it and if she needed someone to talk to that they would be there. Basically they were trying to discourage her. They obviously didn't want their best freind marrying a hethen like me. In the Bible it states that Christians are not to marry outside of their Faith. Simply amazing....isn't it? I guess my wife is a sinner!!!! I also feel that my wife is envious of them because they have the perfect "Christian Marriage"

    Now, We have matured in many ways, mentally, spiritually, emotionally. I think she is more accepting of who I am and realizes that there is no possible way that I will ever be a Christian. I think I am slowly opening her mind up to new ideas and theories. I have her appreciating the Universe a lot more...that's for sure. But it still seems that she will take the Pastors word or her freinds word or her families word before mine.

    The Big issue is gonna be with our Kids!!!!! Oh boy...this should be interesting.

    Peace
     
  16. LIGHTBEING Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    639
    Didn't mean to post twice...sorry. I forgot a last sentence and I hit the submit button then tried to hit stop. Read the second one.
     
  17. G0D G0D - Gee Zero Dee Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    150
    The ultimate reason!
     
  18. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,083
    there are many reasons.
    I do not like christianity because it is brainwashing, forcing others to believe like themselves, thinking unrationally and blindly beleiving in bible, and they are afraid of truth (whatever it may be)
    as for me->
    I want in a chrst school for 4 years. first 4 years. it was "hell"

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    .
    I am smth like scientific-neo-pagan, till I can remember and it was darn funny when they wanted to make me beleive Jesus is my savior. They said tht listening to Queen was a sin!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    and countless oth things like these. They made me study bible - and it only helped me to come to a final decesion tht Christianity is far from real life, it's a mix of phantasies, rule-the-world principle, stupidity, and mostly fear. in christianity all is based on fear
    fear from god, fear from evil, fear from sin, fear from hell, fear from truth, fear from yourself, fear from reality, fear from people and oth.

    well tjis was for short, I do not want to write long answers on this theme because I think tht christanity in tht way is stealing away my time in which I could do smth better, maybe listening to "satanic" music.
    I' m searchin' for knowledge and I give a damn no thing if it is "evil" or not.
    Cheers!
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2002
  19. Ender Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    294
    Concider this

    Christianity contridicts itself. If you read other treads, you can find a couple passages i nthe bible that contirdict, but my main one is with free will.

    The bible says that we all need to chose Jesus over worldy things, and repent...

    But then it also says that everyone who is going to the 'kingdom' has already been chosen.

    IT really doesn't sound like freewill to me. Plus if we are already predetermined to go to a place, why would you want to serve a 'god' that sent/sends people to hell if we are only doing what he 'programmed' us to do? It also defeats the great comission to "go and make deciples of all nations..." if people are going to go to heavem anyways, why go?

    Christianity basicly states that
    in order to go to heaven = chose
    in order to go to heaven = predetermined
    so... chose = predetermined?
    NOPE
     
  20. You Killed Jesus 14/88 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    401
    A christian stole my lunch money in elementary.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Anyway, while Christianity has it's place in human development(I'd say it's a step up from worshipping statues), with the rise of secular sciences there is little to no need for the cop-out "well, god made it that way" answers Christianity(and general organized religion) provides. It's had it's day in the sun, let's move on.

    About all the atrocities christianity committed: I'm sure that things like the crusades would have happened anyway, it's more of a case of humanity's old fear of all things alien. The early christians in Rome were charged with infant sacrifice and all things evil, remember?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  21. ismu ::phenomenon::. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    468
    liar

    Because they're liars. The bibble lies, priests lies, they spread lies. And sometimes they don't even knew if they're lying.

    As simple as that!
     
  22. pragmathen 0001 1111 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    452
    People dislike/hate/oppose Christianity? Whatever for?

    I'm going to go the route of <b>tiassa</b>, although not as eloquent.

    When I was twelve, I was baptized a Latter-Day Saint. Some people in the local [ward] fellowshipped the hell out of me and my brothers. They were really quite kind and attentive. Since my mother smoked (still does), they didn't try very hard to be friends with her. Eventually we became inactive--stopped attending services--and our fellowshippers stopped coming over.

    When I was seventeen and growing up in New Mexico (yes, it's a state, albeit a very drab one), my girlfriend and I had a wonderful time at making out and eventually sex. I was naturally quite pleased with having sex and passed that information onto my brothers. They had mixed feelings. My older brother was preparing himself--through acceptance of the mantle of self-righteousness--to go on an LDS mission. My younger brother just thought it was strange that I had the knowledge of how to engage in sex (I was sort of a nerd at the time). My ecclesiastical leader informed me that my having sex was tantamount to adultery and things like murder and that I had better start repenting, else my soul would be damned. I was impressionable and so I repented.

    At age twenty, I decided to go on a mission as well. I was known in my little community as an avid reader and student of the Book of Mormon (which is the LDS' version of a second companion to the Bible). Having loved to read many kinds of fiction, I took to the book like a convert to water. I went to Japan, where I learned Japanese (both written and spoken), studied ALL the religious texts of the LDS religion in excruciating detail and defended a religious belief system to a first-world country where the average intellect was well above 12 (my brothers went on missions where the 12-year-old intellect was prevalent). Naturally, I didn't convert many people, although I did gain a tremendous appreciation for people of different lands and cultures. For any Christians out there, try instilling a belief in Christ to people that know nothing of the creature, and who are not easily swayed by winds of doctrine. My maturity-level skyrocketed due to that experience and I can't say as I wouldn't want to go back and not go on a mission if I could change things.

    Upon return from Japan, I immediately moved south to be with my older brother and a good friend. Eventually my younger brother also returned from his mission and we all roomed together. During that year, I taught every week (basically) an advanced doctrinal class for the church down there. My primary purpose was to get others to ask questions and find the answers for themselves. I loved asking questions, because I always thought I was finding the answers.

    On a whim, my brother and I decided to move to Utah, Mormon central. I was actually head over heels for this girl I knew who was up there, he just wanted to come with me. Once settled in there (things didn't work out with the girl), I also taught the same kind of advanced doctrinal class for at least two straight years. I was a hit and I honestly enjoyed teaching during that time.

    Our bishop (ecc. leader) would always harp on everyone about obeying a law of chastity (which is that one should remain chaste at all times--no masturbation, no entertaining thoughts of lacivious women, and very little nocturnal emissions). I began to think this was funny since the man was easily three hundred pounds overweight (which was also frowned upon in the LDS church). I became engaged during this time to a very domineering woman. She was very smart (book-wise), but she was hell-bent on challenging every male on the planet and proving that she was better. I'm not very competitive, so things did not work out there either. After we broke up, she proceeded to try and date every single roommate of mine (five total, including my younger brother) or flirt with them in my presence. That was some fun times, let me tell ya!

    I began to doubt certain aspects of the church. I began to search out various passages which I had previously ignored or glossed over or considered irrelevant. Such as God's making one of his prophets consume human dung to prove a point, or God killing some guy because the guy thought the ark was falling and went to steady it, or God scapegoating Judas and setting the poor kid up for failure. Other things which were specific to the LDS doctrine as well.

    I began seeing another gal, who was pretty cool to be with. I also began to be disillusioned with the whole church thing and the blatant intolerance towards others with differing viewpoints. I even had a personal experience gone awry where I had a very close friend of mine come out to me. Even though I've apologized profusely and we both feel we're past it, I reacted not so good. I personalized it, which is an inherent Christian trait. I thought that meant he was attracted to me, when I couldn't have been further from the truth. It took a while to regain that friendship.

    On December 25, 1999, after reading many texts online and tons of Q & A sessions, I came to the conclusion that the LDS religion was rife with corruption. I also surmised that any and all religion was a terrible price to pay for one's personal freedom and integrity. I told this to the gal I was seeing and her reaction astounded me--she broke down in tears and demanded I drive her back home, which I promptly did. I broke up with her a couple months later since I knew she'd never leave the fold and she knew I'd never return.

    For the next year and a half, I hid my feelings of bitterness and anger against Christianity. I even went through a wild and sordid rebellious phase, which I'm thankful to myself for getting under control again. A close friend of mine had no idea about my abrupt belief system change and since the topic never came up, I never told him. Eventually I did (after hanging out with the guy for at least two times a week for a year), and he has since ceased all contact with me. I've known this guy for at least ten years, wreaked havoc on our little NM town countless times, laughed (he's really quite funny), you name it. But as soon as I told him I'd left the church, he turned his back on me ... which is how I told others he'd unfortunately react. He's a Christian, what other choice did he have, right? The unfortunate thing is that my younger brother stoked the fire of discontent in this situation since my brother also was quite irked at my decision.

    Notice I said my decision. And here we come to the crux of the issue. Christianity is all about free will, so say the doomsayers. But when someone exercises that free will, then Christians immediately feel offended somehow. In some way, the non-believer is challenging the Christian's belief or, in the very least, threatening their tenuous hold on the Christian mindset.

    Though my brother asked for reasons why I was leaving the church, my answers only caused him to say it was irrelevant (much the same way I reacted way back when). Moreover, my brother continues to hang out with that friend of mine who juked me and they carry on as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened. Which, naturally, leaves me nonplussed as to how to interact with my brother.

    My coworkers have questions about my beliefs, that I'm sure of, though they can't come right out and say anything. You have to remember that religion is a psycho-fanatical way of life for people in this city. I do my best not to divulge anything about myself to them and maybe I do myself a disservice. But I'm naturally distrusting of Christians, since I've seen what mentality they breed--offense at heterogenity.

    So, is it so hard to understand why people dislike Christianity? Admittedly my experiences herein are one-sided per a particular sect of Christianity, but they can be applied freely elsewhere as well.

    Perhaps a better question would be to ask why people dislike atheists or agnosticism?

    Thanks!

    prag
     
  23. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,943
    Yep, too many LDS influences already...*snickers madly*

    We threaten them. Sure, they pretend that they have no doubts, but they must....deep in thier hearts, wonder. The presence of happy, ethical athiests must sting.

    Honestly, I think 'why do people hate X-tianity' is a lame variation of the 'have you stopped beating your wife yet?' fallacy. Nobody has expressed hatred, perhaps bitterness but that is all.
     

Share This Page